Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - Day 7

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
I hope this was JSS finally calling their bluff and getting the possibility of a mistrial due to this secret witness nonsense out of the way. It will be interesting to see how she handles things going forward.

I've wondered this too - whether Judge Stephens deliberately over-reached, knowing full well that the issue would be passed to (and decided by) the Court of Appeals. And knowing that it all likelihood they would reverse her decision. This would allow her to move forward with an open court, confident that Arias could not use it as grounds for appeal, with the added bonus that it couldn't be used as the basis for a yet more motions for a mistrial. The issue will have been dealt with and put to rest.

If so, I'd have a hard time deciding if it was symptomatic of a degree of cowardice on Judge Stephens' part - or as you say, a case of calling their bluff.
 
I have not been able to track anything happening in this retrial. (I'm in trial prep and trial myself. Horrendous). I really wish I knew what's going on. Who has testified, what the impact has been, who is presenting their case now, how the family is doing, how the jury is reacting.

If anyone has the time and can take pity on me, and give me the scoop, that would be wonderful.

Defense has gone, and Juan showed Autopsy photos, showed tape with Flores interrogation where JA lied and lied, Flores testified where Nurmi just kept saying you said gunshot was first. ME testified where he said gunshot last. Nurmi this time around in his opening statements and ever since just keeps talking about a "mentally ill young girl" so I guess they are going with JA is mentally ill….and this all took about 3 days. Last Thursday Tanisha and Steven gave their very moving and emotional VIS in the morning, and then Nurmi promptly after lunch asked for a sidebar and after that JSS threw everyone including media out of the courtroom and threw the First Amendment in the burn pile by saying that JA's mitigating witness could testify in secret and no one except jury, counsel and TA's family could hear it. AZ Central's lawyers then filed for a stay, which JSS denied, and then AZ Central then went to COA and that was heard today. COA granted the stay. After Nurmi was told no secret court (and by the way he told COA he wanted ALL of the rest of this case heard in secret) he said I have nothing more to do today. JSS couldn't decide what COA meant by their ruling, dismissed court for rest of today and no court until Wednesday, but she and the attorneys will meet tomorrow to decide what COA ruling means tomorrow at 1:30.

In other words, business as usual.

Oh and in the first 3 days, 2 jurors excused. One for family emergency, and one for approaching Beth Karas asking her if she was Nancy Grace (at lunchtime and she had taken her juror badge off)
 
Defense has gone, and Juan showed Autopsy photos, showed tape with Flores interrogation where JA lied and lied, Flores testified where Nurmi just kept saying you said gunshot was first. ME testified where he said gunshot last. Nurmi this time around in his opening statements and ever since just keeps talking about a "mentally ill young girl" so I guess they are going with JA is mentally ill….and this all took about 3 days. Last Thursday Tanisha and Steven gave their very moving and emotional VIS in the morning, and then Nurmi promptly after lunch asked for a sidebar and after that JSS threw everyone including media out of the courtroom and threw the First Amendment in the burn pile by saying that JA's mitigating witness could testify in secret and no one except jury, counsel and TA's family could hear it. AZ Central's lawyers then filed for a stay, which JSS denied, and then AZ Central then went to COA and that was heard today. COA granted the stay. After Nurmi was told no secret court (and by the way he told COA he wanted ALL of the rest of this case heard in secret) he said I have nothing more to do today. JSS couldn't decide what COA meant by their ruling, dismissed court for rest of today and no court until Wednesday, but she and the attorneys will meet tomorrow to decide what COA ruling means tomorrow at 1:30.

In other words, business as usual.

BBM: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:
 
Nurmi had little in the way of compelling argument today so I was trying to flesh out his line of thinking, in light of what I know about this trial. His argument, if implemented would seemingly have the result of closing only cases where the crime was heinous and the defense ridiculous, thus necessitating calling witnesses to testify to the preposterous.

So, in that sense, it would be a limited ruling. There are fortunately, few JA's. Hardly any defendant would willingly testify for 18 days describing in minute detail her entire life, especially the sex parts, all for the absurd goal of expecting the jury to find that, despite the fact she was completely uninjured while the victim was killed three times over, that she killed in self defense.

As to the witnesses, well, you can buy an expert witness for anything. But the "star" witness here, seemed baffled by criticism for her clearly biased testimony, which lacked any basis in fact and which was based solely on the "word" of a professed liar. A domestic violence "expert" who found nothing odd about behavior such as crawling into the alleged abusers house through a doggie door and sleeping under the abusers Christmas tree or moving back to the place where the abuser lives after breaking up. If any of this were a movie plot it would be dismissed as lacking any sense of reality.

So, in Nuri's ideal court, witnesses would be free to come into court to testify to obvious absurdities without being "caught" by the public doing so. Only after it's all over can the truth be revealed. How encouraging for those who would testify falsely to opinions that are not sussceptible to perjury charges and thus perhaps would only be dissuaded by the knowledge that the public and media are watching. That's what it seems like to me anyway-it's all about allowing things to go on that wouldn't if the witness had to testify in the "light". The same with any abuse family or friends would be willing to testify to. No way to disprove what they say happened years ago. And once the trial is over, no one will pay attention to their testimony. Verdicts end most interest. The media and public move on.

Call me cynical but I have to say I just kind of doubt the motive here. Protecting witnesses from danger? Not seeing it. There are reasons why you don't want anyone to know what your witnesses are saying. And I don't think those are constitutionally protected.



Which is the main reason I don't get why she was able to win super-secret testimony and a pile of sealed orders and court rulings. Makes absolutely no sense to me. sigh
 
I have not been able to track anything happening in this retrial. (I'm in trial prep and trial myself. Horrendous). I really wish I knew what's going on. Who has testified, what the impact has been, who is presenting their case now, how the family is doing, how the jury is reacting.

If anyone has the time and can take pity on me, and give me the scoop, that would be wonderful.
Appellate court heard argument in public (imagine such a thing lol) at 11 am IIRC. Secret trial was suspended because Nurmi and JM needed to go to the Ct App for that argument. Secret trial may have resumed at 1:15 pm. Ruling from Ct App came down at 3 pm staying enforcement of the order closing the courtroom. The merits of the special action are scheduled for consideration Nov. 25.

JM, Nurmi and JSS couldn't immediately agree how to handle the 1st Amendment going forward, so trial is off until Wed. at 10 am for them to think. Hearing tomorrow at 1:30 re: same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqJ4KRVyphI&feature=youtu.be
https://twitter.com/ericksonvision/status/529405235412742144/photo/1
 
You know, that's a good question. Judge Stephens decided that the order was subject to interpretation. I don't get it. She is supposed to be the judgy judge.

The Court of Appeals decision says that "... the superior court may impose a lesser restriction upon the public's access to the trial..." so perhaps that's what the difference of opinion is about - what exactly a "lesser restriction" might be.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1jaeKiCAAAN0rv.jpg:large
 
There is no way that the parents are in 'denial.' They know fully well that their daughter murdered Travis. Now it's about protecting their reputation, making money and preparing for book deals. We've seen this all before and I'm not going to fall for the 'woe is me, send me some $$' act.

I hate using Baez as an example but I do so only because the public hated him too. He did avoid social media during the trial and that's how it should be. I don't remember any defense witnesses being too afraid to testify. It's a sad day when we realize that the other trial wasn't as big of a circus as this one.

The Judge ought to stop catering to the endless and frivolous needs of the Defense and get this trial going again.
 
Nurmi had little in the way of compelling argument today so I was trying to flesh out his line of thinking, in light of what I know about this trial. His argument, if implemented would seemingly have the result of closing only cases where the crime was heinous and the defense ridiculous, thus necessitating calling witnesses to testify to the preposterous.

So, in that sense, it would be a limited ruling. There are fortunately, few JA's. Hardly any defendant would willingly testify for 18 days describing in minute detail her entire life, especially the sex parts, all for the absurd goal of expecting the jury to find that, despite the fact she was completely uninjured while the victim was killed three times over, that she killed in self defense.

As to the witnesses, well, you can buy an expert witness for anything. But the "star" witness here, seemed baffled by criticism for her clearly biased testimony, which lacked any basis in fact and which was based solely on the "word" of a professed liar. A domestic violence "expert" who found nothing odd about behavior such as crawling into the alleged abusers house through a doggie door and sleeping under the abusers Christmas tree or moving back to the place where the abuser lives after breaking up. If any of this were a movie plot it would be dismissed as lacking any sense of reality.

So, in Nuri's ideal court, witnesses would be free to come into court to testify to obvious absurdities without being "caught" by the public doing so. Only after it's all over can the truth be revealed. How encouraging for those who would testify falsely to opinions that are not sussceptible to perjury charges and thus perhaps would only be dissuaded by the knowledge that the public and media are watching. That's what it seems like to me anyway-it's all about allowing things to go on that wouldn't if the witness had to testify in the "light". The same with any abuse family or friends would be willing to testify to. No way to disprove what they say happened years ago. And once the trial is over, no one will pay attention to their testimony. Verdicts end most interest. The media and public move on.

Call me cynical but I have to say I just kind of doubt the motive here. Protecting witnesses from danger? Not seeing it. There are reasons why you don't want anyone to know what your witnesses are saying. And I don't think those are constitutionally protected.

AND THE JUDGE WENT ALONG WITH THIS.

I find this almost…criminal.
 
It is so obvious she is not ready to preside over proceedings that are of this magnitude. You ever heard of the Peter Principal? Where someone is promoted and promoted until they are promoted beyond their level of competency?

I have certainly heard of the Peter Principal. It is alive and well and being displayed in an Arizona courtroom, IMO. This was not the case for JSS to cut her Death Penalty Case teeth on. This was not the case for Willmont to be on to give her the status of being first chair in her next case of being Death Penalty qualified.

The first sign of trouble I saw was when JSS did not want 'speaking objections'. Almost every objection turned into a long sidebar that would be sealed. I've never seen as many sidebars in a trial. Willmont would stomp up to the bench as if there were a corn cobb stuck in a very uncomfortable place. Nurmi would saunter up as if he had all day, and Juan would be the only person seeming professional. JSS looked as if she were scrunching her body halfway over the 'bench' to accommodate counsel. Then the sidebar would go on and on.

JSS has shown no consideration for the jury or their time, IMO. I noticed it with the first jury and now this one. She has granted delay after delay and has no control over her courtroom. Everything has to be secret and sealed. I see she worked in the juvenile system for a time and it has become habit to shut the public out (as it should be in a juvenile court). Well, this is big boy court where an innocent victim was stabbed repeatedly and then shot. Nothing should be secret here, not even the objections, IMO.

I'm sick of the whole thing. JSS has a boss. Why has that boss allowed this circus? Why hasn't he/she guided this first time capitol case judge? Is anyone in charge of the budget? Does anyone care that the longer this circus is allowed to continue the more it is costing the Arizona taxpayers? I care and I don't even live there.

The Alexanders are from out of state and have to spend untold amounts of money to attend these half day sessions, every other day sessions, and also put their lives on hold for all of these 'dark' courtroom days. This is so unfair to them. They have had to listen to filthy lies they should never have to hear about their beloved brother, yet they are there on every court day wanting justice for him. My heart just breaks for them all.

I cannot even begin to say how disgusted I have been throughout the trial and now this penalty phase. I am generally an easy going person and feeling this amount of disgust and anger scares me. I want this over and done for Travis' family's sake as well as the well being of all of us. It just gets worse and worse, doesn't it?

I should post more often rather then let it build up into an overly long post. Sorry I veered so far off answering your post, Renee110!

MOO
 
I have certainly heard of the Peter Principal. It is alive and well and being displayed in an Arizona courtroom, IMO. This was not the case for JSS to cut her Death Penalty Case teeth on. This was not the case for Willmont to be on to give her the status of being first chair in her next case of being Death Penalty qualified.

The first sign of trouble I saw was when JSS did not want 'speaking objections'. Almost every objection turned into a long sidebar that would be sealed. I've never seen as many sidebars in a trial. Willmont would stomp up to the bench as if there were a corn cobb stuck in a very uncomfortable place. Nurmi would saunter up as if he had all day, and Juan would be the only person seeming professional. JSS looked as if she were scrunching her body halfway over the 'bench' to accommodate counsel. Then the sidebar would go on and on.

JSS has shown no consideration for the jury or their time, IMO. I noticed it with the first jury and now this one. She has granted delay after delay and has no control over her courtroom. Everything has to be secret and sealed. I see she worked in the juvenile system for a time and it has become habit to shut the public out (as it should be in a juvenile court). Well, this is big boy court where an innocent victim was stabbed repeatedly and then shot. Nothing should be secret here, not even the objections, IMO.

I'm sick of the whole thing. JSS has a boss. Why has that boss allowed this circus? Why hasn't he/she guided this first time capitol case judge? Is anyone in charge of the budget? Does anyone care that the longer this circus is allowed to continue the more it is costing the Arizona taxpayers? I care and I don't even live there.

The Alexanders are from out of state and have to spend untold amounts of money to attend these half day sessions, every other day sessions, and also put their lives on hold for all of these 'dark' courtroom days. This is so unfair to them. They have had to listen to filthy lies they should never have to hear about their beloved brother, yet they are there on every court day wanting justice for him. My heart just breaks for them all.

I cannot even begin to say how disgusted I have been throughout the trial and now this penalty phase. I am generally an easy going person and feeling this amount of disgust and anger scares me. I want this over and done for Travis' family's sake as well as the well being of all of us. It just gets worse and worse, doesn't it?

I should post more often rather then let it build up into an overly long post. Sorry I veered so far off answering your post, Renee110!

MOO


:goodpost: Excellent points, LaLaw !

:seeya: And I totally agree !
 
The Court of Appeals decision says that "... the superior court may impose a lesser restriction upon the public's access to the trial..." so perhaps that's what the difference of opinion is about - what exactly a "lesser restriction" might be.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1jaeKiCAAAN0rv.jpg:large

As I understand it from reading the article, the order was about the stay. It isn't clear that everyone now in court is confuzzled by what 'lesser restrictions' means.
 
Unfortunately, Gitana has left the room . . . . maybe someone can PM her with the most recent post #'s for her? I'm off for the night - it's been a long day. Just wanted to shout out a big thanks to the media atty's who fought so hard today! Funny, didn't JA talk about the CTR ring (choose the right) from the Mormon church? Wonder which church she is "dabbling" in today?
 
Kidding! But, no, I'm not aware of this being common anywhere. I mean, I live in MA and we tried Whitey Bulger without secrecy and he and his friends killed LOTS of people. During the trial a witness was killed with cyanide before he could testify as to extortion. There are serious threats to people in criminal trials. Yet, they are basically always open.

I don't like to criticize judges and JS seems like an intelligent enough person but I think there may be some combination of an extremely devious and diabolical defendant who has had years to plot her trial "strategy" combined with a Judge in her first really big case which may be somewhat out of her comfort zone in terms of content as I don't believe she was involved with violent crimes. So, you have a defendant who prods her attorneys to make increasingly absurd and unprecedented accommodations and a judge who doesn't want to have her first big case successfully appealed and who is also likely very legitimately concerned with the defendant's right to a fair trial, and you get a lot of wishy washy uncertainty and caving in. I mean, on the defense atty side, these guys, especially Nurmi are a tad slimy in my opinion and all too willing to push whatever "story" JA comes up with. JA could have had a very good defense without showing her private parts and discussing them for days on end. I found it a highly unusual strategy. So, I think JS gets pushed into making concessions that she could very legitimately deny.

Like the other day, she heard the secret argument and found the public should be excluded and the media should go the overflow room and then, I guess, overuled herself and booted everyone. Doesn't inspire confidence and I'm sure JA and Nurmi are well aware of that and use it to their advantage. JA is a manipulator. Think of everything DeMarte said about her and think of all that focused, for the last 6 years, on her trial and imagine the tricks she has up her sleeve.

Since the court didn't order a specific thing, of course the lawyers will disagree. But generally, that's where the judge role comes in. I don't think the order was that ambiguous. But it didn't focus solely on the stay-it ventured into the merits but also referred to another closed proceeding so it is somewhat difficult for the non-privileged among us to completely understand what the court was suggesting.

The court ordered:

1. To stay JS's order permitting the secret testimony. This just means it, the secret testimony, can't happen until the Appeals Ct hears the merits of the case.

2. Further Ordered that JS can impose a "lesser restriction" as the court contemplated at the hearing on 10/30. I am assuming (dangerous) this means the court is telling her that they can all just forget the stay and continue the trial if she does what she originally planned to do on 10/30 which was bar the public and allow the media in the overflow room. This may be the argument with Nurmi arguing a "lesser restriction" means the media can get the first transcript when he decides it doesn't have to be secret anymore-joking, but since the court didn't order a specific thing the lawyers can argue whatever they want. To me, the Ct is saying, do what you originally wanted to do and keep the trial moving and we can forget this whole thing.

3. Ordered they'll hear the merits later...meaning if they need to if JS, and maybe Nurmi, doesn't take the hint.

So, I'm sure JM is fine with the lesser restriction JS originally ordered so it must be Nurmi refusing. I think JS should just impose that order herself and stand tall! If she doesn't I'm pretty sure the Appeals CT will do it for her and they could go further and just make it totally open. If Nurmi were smart, he'd get on board.

OK, I'll shut up now...



Boytownmom, what do you think of all of the "sealed sidebars" . . . is that common where you are?

What do you think of JSS saying there were different interpretations of the ruling today?

Gitana . . . when ya get up to speed - would love to hear your take on today's happenings.
 
Boytwnmom, I won't quote your post but just want to say thank you! You summed it up in a great way!

MOO
 
Kidding! But, no, I'm not aware of this being common anywhere. I mean, I live in MA and we tried Whitey Bulger without secrecy and he and his friends killed LOTS of people. During the trial a witness was killed with cyanide before he could testify as to extortion. There are serious threats to people in criminal trials. Yet, they are basically always open.

I don't like to criticize judges and JS seems like an intelligent enough person but I think there may be some combination of an extremely devious and diabolical defendant who has had years to plot her trial "strategy" combined with a Judge in her first really big case which may be somewhat out of her comfort zone in terms of content as I don't believe she was involved with violent crimes. So, you have a defendant who prods her attorneys to make increasingly absurd and unprecedented accommodations and a judge who doesn't want to have her first big case successfully appealed and who is also likely very legitimately concerned with the defendant's right to a fair trial, and you get a lot of wishy washy uncertainty and caving in. I mean, on the defense atty side, these guys, especially Nurmi are a tad slimy in my opinion and all too willing to push whatever "story" JA comes up with. JA could have had a very good defense without showing her private parts and discussing them for days on end. I found it a highly unusual strategy. So, I think JS gets pushed into making concessions that she could very legitimately deny.

Like the other day, she heard the secret argument and found the public should be excluded and the media should go the overflow room and then, I guess, overuled herself and booted everyone. Doesn't inspire confidence and I'm sure JA and Nurmi are well aware of that and use it to their advantage. JA is a manipulator. Think of everything DeMarte said about her and think of all that focused, for the last 6 years, on her trial and imagine the tricks she has up her sleeve.

Since the court didn't order a specific thing, of course the lawyers will disagree. But generally, that's where the judge role comes in. I don't think the order was that ambiguous. But it didn't focus solely on the stay-it ventured into the merits but also referred to another closed proceeding so it is somewhat difficult for the non-privileged among us to completely understand what the court was suggesting.

The court ordered:

1. To stay JS's order permitting the secret testimony. This just means it, the secret testimony, can't happen until the Appeals Ct hears the merits of the case.

2. Further Ordered that JS can impose a "lesser restriction" as the court contemplated at the hearing on 10/30. I am assuming (dangerous) this means the court is telling her that they can all just forget the stay and continue the trial if she does what she originally planned to do on 10/30 which was bar the public and allow the media in the overflow room. This may be the argument with Nurmi arguing a "lesser restriction" means the media can get the first transcript when he decides it doesn't have to be secret anymore-joking, but since the court didn't order a specific thing the lawyers can argue whatever they want. To me, the Ct is saying, do what you originally wanted to do and keep the trial moving and we can forget this whole thing.

3. Ordered they'll hear the merits later...meaning if they need to if JS, and maybe Nurmi, doesn't take the hint.

So, I'm sure JM is fine with the lesser restriction JS originally ordered so it must be Nurmi refusing. I think JS should just impose that order herself and stand tall! If she doesn't I'm pretty sure the Appeals CT will do it for her and they could go further and just make it totally open. If Nurmi were smart, he'd get on board.

OK, I'll shut up now...

Don't shut up! What you have said really mirrors what AZL said too! I <3 our verified Atty's!!!!!! Thank you so very much!!!!!
 
I have certainly heard of the Peter Principal. It is alive and well and being displayed in an Arizona courtroom, IMO. This was not the case for JSS to cut her Death Penalty Case teeth on. This was not the case for Willmont to be on to give her the status of being first chair in her next case of being Death Penalty qualified.

The first sign of trouble I saw was when JSS did not want 'speaking objections'. Almost every objection turned into a long sidebar that would be sealed. I've never seen as many sidebars in a trial. Willmont would stomp up to the bench as if there were a corn cobb stuck in a very uncomfortable place. Nurmi would saunter up as if he had all day, and Juan would be the only person seeming professional. JSS looked as if she were scrunching her body halfway over the 'bench' to accommodate counsel. Then the sidebar would go on and on.

JSS has shown no consideration for the jury or their time, IMO. I noticed it with the first jury and now this one. She has granted delay after delay and has no control over her courtroom. Everything has to be secret and sealed. I see she worked in the juvenile system for a time and it has become habit to shut the public out (as it should be in a juvenile court). Well, this is big boy court where an innocent victim was stabbed repeatedly and then shot. Nothing should be secret here, not even the objections, IMO.

I'm sick of the whole thing. JSS has a boss. Why has that boss allowed this circus? Why hasn't he/she guided this first time capitol case judge? Is anyone in charge of the budget? Does anyone care that the longer this circus is allowed to continue the more it is costing the Arizona taxpayers? I care and I don't even live there.

The Alexanders are from out of state and have to spend untold amounts of money to attend these half day sessions, every other day sessions, and also put their lives on hold for all of these 'dark' courtroom days. This is so unfair to them. They have had to listen to filthy lies they should never have to hear about their beloved brother, yet they are there on every court day wanting justice for him. My heart just breaks for them all.

I cannot even begin to say how disgusted I have been throughout the trial and now this penalty phase. I am generally an easy going person and feeling this amount of disgust and anger scares me. I want this over and done for Travis' family's sake as well as the well being of all of us. It just gets worse and worse, doesn't it?

I should post more often rather then let it build up into an overly long post. Sorry I veered so far off answering your post, Renee110!

MOO

This has puzzled me. With the amount of media coverage and attention that this trial has received, I frankly can't imagine why on earth JSS's boss or bosses haven't curtailed her. We can't blame this ALL on Nurmi, as the judge is the principal in this school, and has allowed everything that has gone on to go on. I can't believe that on Thursday, when JSS ruled that everything could be secret, that she didn't call someone else for their take on it, and then I can't believe that after media filed with COA someone didn't get with JSS to discuss. It's just weird. Like they are their own little universe that doesn't have to comply with laws of gravity. It seems that she is a loose cannon with no peers or elders to assist or guide her. I blame ALL of the strange shenanigans on JSS. Nurmi can only do what he is permitted to do.
 
http://www.spreecast.com/events/the-gold-patrol-public-beats-arias

and he is still saying JA was the witness on Friday. Does anyone have any further info about this? That just doesn't make sense to me. I'm thinking if she was on the stand it was to set up the witness testimony. But that to me seems suspect-if JS ruling was for ONE witness as Nurni said, then how could she also be covered-is it a cutesy, oh, she's the defendant, not a witness? Cause I don't see how that could work-how there is ANY way for a defendant to testify in secret. It just boggles my tired mind.

I envy those of you in sunny AZ, except for the secret trials part.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
125
Guests online
240
Total visitors
365

Forum statistics

Threads
609,596
Messages
18,256,003
Members
234,699
Latest member
mshaw12305
Back
Top