Rita Tangredi, 31, and Colleen McNamee, 20, 1993-94 ** John Bittrolff ARRESTED **

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Just K said:
From a google search:
https://www.google.com/search?q=Bit...la:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb
News for Bittrolff upstate property
Bittrolff upstate property

To his neighbors, suspect was a 'good guy' who liked to hunt ...
Newsday ‎- 5 days ago
Neighbors know John Bittrolff as a friendly, regular guy, a devoted father ... He added that Bittrolff did some work on his house, including installing bay windows. Bittrolff liked to go deer hunting upstate, where he has a second ...

and this:
Neighbors Shocked At Arrest Of L.I. Man In 2 Cold-Case ...
newyork.cbslocal.com/.../neighbors-shocked-at-arrest-of-l-i-...
WCBS‑TV
4 days ago - Bittrolff operates two contracting companies-out of his home, and is an avid hunter with a house upstate and an animal lover. He regularly ...
Click to expand...

I've tried for several days to find an address for a property owned by JB or his wife that is not on LI. So far, nothing has come up. I've also tried finding a property in the name of his brothers that isn't on LI, but other than a FL property, nothing seems to be out there yet in terms of something upstate.
 
I searched for quite a while for the property info in his last name and his wife's maiden name. Could be a relatives, friends or a lease.

He has a last name that could easily be spelled incorrectly. I'll try different spellings.
 
marie-chantal said:
That would be really, really risky in terms of elevating your chances of getting your DNA all over the crime scene.

Based on what we know in this case, there's absolutely nothing that points to necrophilia.

And how do you know that in the GB4 case, the killer wanted to "watch her body rot"? Where did that info come from?
Click to expand...

one of the messages left was something to the effect of i'm going to watcher her rot--quite often revisitors defer to masturbation versus necro, which def increases their own self-exposure to dna being found
 
Maybe he just said he was going hunting upstate. Maybe that was a cover story for his absences. Or, maybe he had a regular seasonal rental.
Did anyone check property records under "Norwick" (maternal maiden name?) Properties are not my specialty.
 
The murders that JB is being charged for point to a disorganized killer, as do the female Manorville killings. (Not even counting the male bodies in Manorville because nothing short of a confession could convince me that they're related.)

From what we know about the GB4, the killer was highly organized.

Sure, 10 years or so can change a killer, but I just don't see the same person going from rage-full and sloppy to calculated and careful.

Peter Vronsky reference to organized/disorganized/mixed SKs: http://www.sciences360.com/index.php/organized-versus-disorganized-serial-killers-2-22795/
 
I've found searching "last name, first name" in quotes and adding tax or assessment in a google search works well.
 
Back in 1992-93 would a killer/rapist give much if any thought to DNA?
 
Upstate NY property could be in a LLC or Corp name
 
It sounds like Colleen and Rita's killings were organized. He took the time to take them to similar locations, position them and to leave with souvenirs. A knock on the head could have been planned...get the women to walk with him, let them get a bit ahead or wait til their back is turned and whack them over the head. The strangulation may have occurred during the sexual attack.

There is nothing to suggest that Manorville were rageful or sloppy...infact, again the killer took time with JT, mutilating her tattoo, removing parts of her body and then disposing of the parts miles and miles away. Whoever killed them left them like garbage. That is a statement, IMO.
 
marie-chantal said:
And how do you know that in the GB4 case, the killer wanted to "watch her body rot"? Where did that info come from?
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marie i'm surprised you never heard this it was well publicized and heavily focused on. It was one of the things the SK told Melissa's sister on the phone.
 
Just K said:
It sounds like Colleen and Rita's killings were organized. He took the time to take them to similar locations, position them and to leave with souvenirs. A knock on the head could have been planned...get the women to walk with him, let them get a bit ahead or wait til their back is turned and whack them over the head. The strangulation may have occurred during the sexual attack.

There is nothing to suggest that Manorville were rageful or sloppy...infact, again the killer took time with JT, mutilating her tattoo, removing parts of her body and then disposing of the parts miles and miles away. Whoever killed them left them like garbage. That is a statement, IMO.
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On the contrary, things like positioning, taking souvenirs, and mutilating are characteristics of a disorganized killer.
 
HA said he worked for his friends construction company when him and kim where living on LI shortly before the AC murders....I wonder if their is a connection between the company HA worked for Bittrolff's company?
 
I mean it is just a way of classifying and I'm sure many killers are organized or disorganizised....but some monsters probably just don't fit into the box
 
Just K said:
Rader did all of those things and he was classified as organized:
https://www.google.com/search?q=btk...la:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb
Click to expand...

To my knowledge, Rader (BTK) didn't pose or mutilate his victims. BTK is considered organized because he chose and stalked his victims, carefully planned each attack to avoid being caught, and taunted police, among other things.

If you have a problem with SK profiling, then your problem is with the LE powers that be. I'm merely pointing out common profiling knowledge and explaining that I think JB and Manorville point to a disorganized killer and GB4 seems to point to an organized killer. Of course, I could be wrong. Maybe it will come out that JB evolved into an organized killer and was responsible for everything. Either way, I find the organized/disorganized profiling characteristics useful in the discussion.
 
I tend to agree with you about GB4 being organized but whats interesting is that when you read the list of organized vs disorganized you could place gb4 in either category really. I was reading some stuff and found that there is a type of "mixed" serial killer. It's pretty interesting.

I agree with Lilo above that this all just might be an outdated profiling technique to a point. I really think we don't know as much about serial killers as we all think. Not sure but hasn't the study of serial killers only been really going on sense 1970's? I think we have a lot to learn. The mind is such a twisted place for some it's hard for those who don't kill for pleasure to comprehend. I think with years to come we are going to be learning more and more about serial killers and with time and some being caught there will new profiles and new types of serial killers.

Here is just a random webpage on organized vs disorganized that I found interesting. No real reason I'm posting other then I just thought some might find it interesting.

http://www.drtomoconnor.com/4050/4050lect04.htm
 
LikeAHunter said:
The murders that JB is being charged for point to a disorganized killer, as do the female Manorville killings. (Not even counting the male bodies in Manorville because nothing short of a confession could convince me that they're related.)

From what we know about the GB4, the killer was highly organized.

Sure, 10 years or so can change a killer, but I just don't see the same person going from rage-full and sloppy to calculated and careful.

Peter Vronsky reference to organized/disorganized/mixed SKs: http://www.sciences360.com/index.php/organized-versus-disorganized-serial-killers-2-22795/
Click to expand...

I agree with you 100%. I see nothing about the GB4 victims bodies that points to rage. LISK is in control of everything, imo. He picks his victim carefully according to type, he acquires them through a routine of sorts, he somehow inspires their trust, and then he strangles them. He also doesn't just dump them...he wraps them, intact, in burlap and then places each body very close to the next victim. He also likes to play mind games (when drinking?) with the victims loved ones. We see none of this in Bittrolff. Bittrolff is a rapist/murderer with rage issues. That much is obvious by looking at the condition of Tangredi and McNamee. I don't think he carefully selects his victims, or even considers that part of the game. He's spur of the moment, imo. See a victim, pick her up, rape her, beat her, strangle her, and then just dump her right then and there. Doesn't sound remotely like LISK, imo. In fact, it really doesn't sound like ACSK, but at least we have some similarities in those 2 cases.
 
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