Australia Samantha Murphy, 51, last seen leaving her property to go for a run in the Canadian State Forest, Ballarat 100km NW of Melbourne, 4 Feb 2024 #5

[Toowong(s)]

Thank you so much Toowong/s ... you are a genius. So essentially, we have NO FACTS in this case. Great. And thank you so much for the info re the flatlining watch. A friend of mine yesterday said to me that it doesn't mean she died ... it just may mean that it couldn't read her anymore. So, interesting that the police were so quick to say that it is unlikely she is still alive ... I wonder what that's really about ...

We are sleuthing in a vacuum!

 

[SouthAussie]

I wonder if there is protocol about gaining everyone's phone details from their phone company or the tower data, which has stopped them from looking at it so early. As it is wild if this is the first time they are touching upon this information/lead.

In Australia, metadata from a tower dump can only be requested for a crime. Not for a missing person or other reason.

It involves multiple carriers downloading the metadata from the tower(s). The metadata will show the time, duration and destination of phone activity in that area ... usually for a period of one or two hours.

If the police have only gained evidence of a crime recently, in Sam's case, that is when they could request the metadata.

Police scoop up data on thousands in mobile phone 'tower dumps' to track down criminals

Australian federal and state police are ordering phone providers to hand over personal information about thousands of mobile phone users, whether they are targets of an investigation or not.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Malibuandcoke]

No, I think it's odd, too soon

But the police will know for sure now if there were any missed calls and messages on her phone and his

Sam was reported missing at about 11am. Mick reported her missing.

He said she was supposed to be back to go to some sort of meeting that morning,' Allan said.

This Allan is saying some sort of meeting ?

But MM said it was a family brunch ?

Seeing Allan seems to know everything, why is there a difference of events ?

From Allan again.... 'She wasn't home. Didn't go to it... MM rang up and reported it and after that they started looking out the other side of Buninyong, which is 20-30km away.'

Why would you go all that way 20.30km to 'supposedly' look when It's nowhere near home ?

And they would have known she was going for a short run, due to having something on at 11 am,

so she would have to be back earlier to shower, get ready etc before then

Might MM have known something was happening to Sam at Mt Chance at around 8am ?

And he didn't want to go anywhere near there to search, supposedly with his kids, close to home ?

But calls the police at around 11 am,

it could show he is a concerned husband

Did he receive a call ?..... It's done ! ??

I think it's a bit odd, something is not right in all of this

Police give a major update on missing mum Samantha Murphy

Detectives from the Missing Persons Squad will today lead a targeted search of the Mount Clear area as part of their investigation into the suspicious disappearance of Ballarat East woman Samantha Murphy.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I’m thinking the lack of visible action by the police lately, although I’m sure a lot going on in the background, points to less obvious causes for Samantha’s disappearance

 

[RobinCAL]

In Australia, metadata from a tower dump can only be requested for a crime. Not for a missing person or other reason.

It involves multiple carriers downloading the metadata from the tower(s). The metadata will show the time, duration and destination of phone activity in that area ... usually for a period of one or two hours.

If the police only have only gained evidence of a crime recently, in Sam's case, that is when they could request the metadata.

Police scoop up data on thousands in mobile phone 'tower dumps' to track down criminals

Australian federal and state police are ordering phone providers to hand over personal information about thousands of mobile phone users, whether they are targets of an investigation or not.

www.smh.com.au

Thank you for that insightful reply ! Much appreciated as I'm going blind with most of it.

If the police only have only gained evidence of a crime recently, in Sam's case, that is when they could request the metadata.
incredibly interesting if they have only just got evidence of a crime, even though they were talking about damaged cars so you would think they thought of a crime being done but maybe only got evidence recently. Hopefully things progress soon and she's found

 

[SouthAussie]

Thank you for that insightful reply ! Much appreciated as I'm going blind with most of it.

If the police only have only gained evidence of a crime recently, in Sam's case, that is when they could request the metadata.
incredibly interesting if they have only just got evidence of a crime, even though they were talking about damaged cars so you would think they thought of a crime being done but maybe only got evidence recently. Hopefully things progress soon and she's found

I think that they may have used the GPS data from Sam's devices (at 8am-ish) as evidence of a potential crime.

We don't know if the police have only just applied for the metadata, or if they did it at the time of receiving the (presumed) GPS data from the internet carrier and/or app and seeing the 8am-ish anomaly.

imo

Who else was in bushland when Samantha Murphy disappeared?

 

[imstilla.grandma]

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/update-in-search-for-missing-mum-as-police-probe-mobile-data/news-story/66e90d31da5a55a618ddcc26d860ff3d

 

[Malibuandcoke]

They sounds like


I think 'they' is Allan and Mick went out looking

'She wasn't home. Didn't go to it... he rang up and reported it and after that they started looking out the other side of Buninyong, which is 20-30km away.'

It's all very odd

Perhaps they were able to trace her in that area on find my phone etc

 

[RobinCAL]

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/update-in-search-for-missing-mum-as-police-probe-mobile-data/news-story/66e90d31da5a55a618ddcc26d860ff3d

Did we ever get a reason why Brown hill & Black Hill were searched? Seems a bit 'random'.

 

[Malibuandcoke]

It was, but why would they think to first look in that area?

I expect it would have taken some time for the police to recover the ping data, so don't think this info could have been known to MM at that early stage.

Find my phone perhaps?

 

[Dotta]

Does the latest info about this "metadata" mean that Police ...ummm...
have no clues about disappearance of Samantha?

Or is it the next, planned step of the investigation?

 

[Deleted member 339914]

As my husband just set off for a hard day at work he said"hey, you seem a bit happier about the Sam stuff". I said"cause I have hope again that she may be alive ... I have come to really care about this dog loving gutsy lady". He said"well why not? what's the evidence she is dead?I've always suspected that some space cadet has kidnapped her cause he thought he could get some ransom money from a supposedly loaded family. Now the d...head doesn't know what to do about the situation cause every man, woman and their dogs love Sam and want to save her. The police are saying she's dead so you all lose interest and give them some space. Chin up babe, this isn't over".
Thats why I love my husband!

 

[imstilla.grandma]

*article dated 4 Feb 2024

Victoria Police had focused the search on Woowookarung Regional Park and bushland near the Buninyong Golf Course yesterday, but have today added parts of Black Hill, Brown Hill and Nerrina as a focus area.

It is understood the new search area includes three bushland reserves — Black Hill Reserve, Chisholm Street Reserve, Monte Christo Bushland Reserve — and the Wallaby Track

Police said yesterday they had been using mobile phone data and Ms Murphy's usual running routes to determine the search area.

It is not yet known what has led police to add the Black Hill area to their search.

Search area expands for missing Ballarat woman Samantha Murphy

The search for the 51-year-old mother focused on Woowookarung Regional Park and the bushland area near the Buninyong Golf Course yesterday, but has now expanded to Black Hill.

www.abc.net.au

 

[SouthAussie]

Did we ever get a reason why Brown hill & Black Hill were searched? Seems a bit 'random'.

My thought is that they were checking the other way Sam could have gone on her run.

They didn't know, at the time, if Sam turned left or right out of her driveway onto the lane.
They hadn't yet had the GPS breakthrough.

imo

 

[Malibuandcoke]

But wouldn't you do it closer to home, knowing that Sam was not doing a long run ?

Sorry but seems odd

Perhaps previous threats or ongoing hassle with someone made the family worried after checking find my etc and saw she was further away than her run would take her so they contacted the police after searching themselves

 

[RobinCAL]

My thought is that they were checking the other way Sam could have gone on her run.

They didn't know, at the time, if Sam turned left or right out of her driveway onto the lane.

imo

Thank you, unless its the way the map is coloured in, it seems a specific area instead of looking at everything from her house towards that location, if that makes sense.

 

[Malibuandcoke]

The family know much more than the general public about SMs disappearance IMO - they would get regular police updates I'd assume. Without a gag order, the media wolves would pounce to further their careers and derail police progress and possibly successful prosecution IMO

I hope those that should know more detail do. I think there’d of been a division in the family if anyone suspected foul play

 

[Malibuandcoke]

Presumably the police know exactly where SM was attacked or hit by car and what may have happened soon after (eg. Did she die, was she taken to a car).
Why wouldn’t the police give the exact location of the attack and provide more information? Is the information too revealing for what happened and could it scare locals? If she died, do the police want to keep the exact location secret as only the killer would know so they can potentially use that information down the track?

I’m sure the police would keep any definite locations to themselves to prevent on lookers and websleuths from destroying possible evidence and the possible return of offender under surveillance

 

[Malibuandcoke]

But would they tell us the exact location? I'm not trying to be rude but them telling the public does little to further their investigation all it does is soothe our curiosity for a little while and possibly be a detriment to the case.

I've been thinking about this a lot the last couple of days. The info police have given so far is enough so that if someone from the public saw her or has any info they can let them know. Any other related info serves no purpose to the public. Sure we want to know about the dinner or the brunch or what relationship she had with Mike or if there was an AVO yes police must know these things and I'm sure they do but the general public knowing these things makes no difference to whether Joe Blow drove past her running that day or if Susie down the road gave her a high 5 as they passed each other on the walking track.

Sorry not having a go at anyone just think its something we should keep in mind

Bravo

 

[Malibuandcoke]

Agree Toowong/s ... do you know whether it is often the case that missing people are declared most likely dead when there is no body and seemingly no evidence at this relatively early stage in an investigation. There are many people missing for years with no body or evidence they are dead and they aren't necessarily declared most likely dead ...

There’s something to think about! Very true

 

[Curiosity Cat]

Are you suggesting that the possible perps involved themselves in the searches so as to provide a rationale for any DNA or other evidence they may have left behind? Or to try to find out more information from police? Or something else? On what basis do Police know the possible perps were involved in the searches? Or is this just a hypothesis?

Peeps do that as we know. And they might go back and hide a body in a place that's already been searched? Just a thought