Australia Samantha Murphy, 51, last seen leaving her property to go for a run in the Canadian State Forest, Ballarat 100km NW of Melbourne, 4 Feb 2024 #8

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JLZ said:
I'm convinced. I still think they might have talked to him early on before he was a suspect and got something worth disproving, but that wouldn't have been anything like my scenario where police accused him of being present at the death.

So did they hold off on the Elsworth investigation until after his arrest for fear of alerting him somehow?
Click to expand...

We don't know

But it was reported the police have been watching him

For two weeks before arresting him
 
Black-Cat said:
Sorry Troop
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really old building is a performing arts center

Former Ballarat Supreme Court House

The Geoffrey Blainey Research Centre is located at the Mt Helen Campus and includes a supervised reading room. The GBRC includes the Geoffrey Blainey Mining Collection, the UB Special Collection, the UB Art and Historical Collection.
federation.edu.au federation.edu.au
 
HoneyBunOne said:
Imagine a car with mates or a girlfriend messing around on their way home from a wild night, filming crazy antics and sending Snapchats. Camera is already rolling..... MOO

I can certainly picture him trying to be impress or be in a position of power, a ringleader if you will. MOO

Pretty sure we'd get ruled out for having too much interest/knowledge in the case.

I'm not sure if it depends on the type of case but juries for Ballarat cases come from further afield that just Ballarat city or shire. I live about 45 minutes away and that's where we've been requested to attend for jury duty. We've never done it though, the only time I was selected I got out of it because I was pregnant. My son recently got a request but got out of it, I think because we're just over the 60km radius and that was a reason for getting out of it. My other son was all set to attend but it kept getting delayed and then cancelled. I'm not 100% sure of distances or details but I do know people in my area can be selected for jury duty in Ballarat.

Also, you don't put your name down for jury duty, you're randomly selected. Not sure whether names are chosen from registered voters or what, but you can and do get random letters requesting your attendance. They are sent out several months in advance, about 3-4 from memory. I highly doubt juries are being chosen now for cases in 2025.
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you are 'randomly selected' from the Electoral Role. That is, you register on the Electoral Role, being a resident of your city, shire, region, being a householder, or renter, whatever. That is how random it is. Having been 'randomly selected' you are then consulted as to if you are able to do jury duty. Are you over 70 ? then you don't have to, but you can. Are you pregnant? when are you due? are you deaf? are you taking medication that may prevent you from attending every day? are you a recovering alcoholic? are you, on and on, you get my drift.

If you are on the Electoral register, you are selected from that register for jury duty. People who don't register, and this is an infraction, you must do it when you turn 18, I think, it means you can't vote in elections , which is problematic as voting in Australia is compulsory.

You answer this letter, and that tells the Juror Selection folks if they can count on you, or not, if you go into the ballot draw, or not, or if they say, well , we will contact you next year. Or, we don't like the sound of you, you might be awkward, or.. and so on. It's a progressive process. It doesn't have a lot of 'random ' in it, except when they do the ballot at the end when a case is due.

If you are on the Electoral Role from, say, Ballarat, or outlying areas, if Ballarat is your registered electoral district, doesn't matter if you are not in the city, or 60 k out.

I am sorry you doubt that letters are sent out a year ahead, even highly as your doubt may be, I wish you would notify my Electoral district, I get two a year , always a year out. However, does it matter? really?
 
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Trooper said:
you are 'randomly selected' from the Electoral Role. That is, you register on the Electoral Role, being a resident of your city, shire, region, being a householder, or renter, whatever. That is how random it is. Having been 'randomly selected' you are then consulted as to if you are able to do jury duty. Are you over 70 ? then you don't have to, but you can. Are you pregnant? when are you due? are you deaf? are you taking medication that may prevent you from attending every day? are you a recovering alcoholic? are you, on and on, you get my drift.

If you are on the Electoral register, you are selected from that register for jury duty. People who don't register, and this is an infraction, you must do it when you turn 18, I think, it means you can't vote in elections , which is problematic as voting in Australia is compulsory.

You answer this letter, and that tells the Juror Selection folks if they can count on you, or not, if you go into the ballot draw, or not, or if they say, well , we will contact you next year. Or, we don't like the sound of you, you might be awkward, or.. and so on. It's a progressive process. It doesn't have a lot of 'random ' in it, except when they do the ballot at the end when a case is due.

If you are on the Electoral Role from, say, Ballarat, or outlying areas, if Ballarat is your registered electoral district, doesn't matter if you are not in the city, or 60 k out.

I am sorry you doubt that letters are sent out a year ahead, even highly as your doubt may be, I wish you would notify my Electoral district, I get two a year , always a year out. However, does it matter? really?
Click to expand...
I was basing it on my experience, which I thought would be fairly universal in Victoria. I stand corrected, my apologies.

It appears that Samantha, the accused and I share an electoral voting district, (which does not cover the entire Ballarat area, just the eastern part) so in theory I may get summoned for jury duty for the case, if held in Ballarat. (If that's how it works) I feel that the prosecution could potentially want me on the jury, as Samantha and I share a lot of similarities. The defense? Not so much.

I do understand that the only random part of jury selection it is the initial selection process. Then it's a deep dive into a whole range of things before settling on the final jury. I wonder just how many people get the initial letter for each case before it gets whittled down to the final 12, and however many extras they keep on hand. Does anyone have an idea?

In relation to a prior post of mine, here's the reasons why you can be asked to be excused:

What if I am unable to attend?
If you have a valid reason why you cannot attend, you may apply to be deferred to a more convenient time. You may also have a valid reason to be excused. These include:
 advanced age
 ill health or disability
 reside 50km from the Melbourne court, or 60km from the regional court listed on your summons
 self-employed
 primary carer of children or other family members during business hours
 casual employee with unpredictable hours
 full time student or apprentice
 work for a small business

 
Years ago I served on a jury in Sydney. At the end we were told that as we had "done our duty", we could sign a piece of paper, and we would never be called up again. Some of us did, some of us didn't. I didn't, as I found the whole thing such an interesting experience (it may have been different if it had been a distressing case). However, I've never been called again. Maybe all the states are slightly different.
 
HoneyBunOne said:
I was basing it on my experience, which I thought would be fairly universal in Victoria. I stand corrected, my apologies.

It appears that Samantha, the accused and I share an electoral voting district, (which does not cover the entire Ballarat area, just the eastern part) so in theory I may get summoned for jury duty for the case, if held in Ballarat. (If that's how it works) I feel that the prosecution could potentially want me on the jury, as Samantha and I share a lot of similarities. The defense? Not so much.

I do understand that the only random part of jury selection it is the initial selection process. Then it's a deep dive into a whole range of things before settling on the final jury. I wonder just how many people get the initial letter for each case before it gets whittled down to the final 12, and however many extras they keep on hand. Does anyone have an idea?

In relation to a prior post of mine, here's the reasons why you can be asked to be excused:

What if I am unable to attend?
If you have a valid reason why you cannot attend, you may apply to be deferred to a more convenient time. You may also have a valid reason to be excused. These include:
 advanced age
 ill health or disability
 reside 50km from the Melbourne court, or 60km from the regional court listed on your summons
 self-employed
 primary carer of children or other family members during business hours
 casual employee with unpredictable hours
 full time student or apprentice
 work for a small business

Click to expand...
I must admit to joking re the Juror Selection asking if you are a recovering alcoholic. I have not been asked that, on the form, but once I was asked that by a fellow juror because I fell asleep in the sunlight pouring thru a window..
 
Trooper said:
I must admit to joking re the Juror Selection asking if you are a recovering alcoholic. I have not been asked that, on the form, but once I was asked that by a fellow juror because I fell asleep in the sunlight pouring thru a window..
Click to expand...
I figured that was somewhat of a joke to get your point across. I'm not sure what they can and can't ask of potential jurors, but I do know it's not just a case of taking the first 12 through the door. I can imagine it's a whole science of reading body language, profiling of the juror based on looks/heritage/age/gender etc and a million other things. After all, in major cases like this, someone's life, as they know it, is on the line. They would want to get it right.
 
HoneyBunOne said:
Imagine a car with mates or a girlfriend messing around on their way home from a wild night, filming crazy antics and sending Snapchats. Camera is already rolling..... MOO

I can certainly picture him trying to be impress or be in a position of power, a ringleader if you will. MOO

Pretty sure we'd get ruled out for having too much interest/knowledge in the case.

I'm not sure if it depends on the type of case but juries for Ballarat cases come from further afield that just Ballarat city or shire. I live about 45 minutes away and that's where we've been requested to attend for jury duty. We've never done it though, the only time I was selected I got out of it because I was pregnant. My son recently got a request but got out of it, I think because we're just over the 60km radius and that was a reason for getting out of it. My other son was all set to attend but it kept getting delayed and then cancelled. I'm not 100% sure of distances or details but I do know people in my area can be selected for jury duty in Ballarat.

Also, you don't put your name down for jury duty, you're randomly selected. Not sure whether names are chosen from registered voters or what, but you can and do get random letters requesting your attendance. They are sent out several months in advance, about 3-4 from memory. I highly doubt juries are being chosen now for cases in 2025.
Click to expand...
You get selected from the electrol roll. It is completely random.
I would think that if this goes to the supreme court for trial by jury, the accused or legals for him will request the case gets transferred to Melbourne. That is common in high profile cases to enable distance from the locals and a wider selection of jurors who don't know anyone personal, and haven't been privy to local gossip. It's the local gossip that can get this case thrown out.
 
HoneyBunOne said:
I was basing it on my experience, which I thought would be fairly universal in Victoria. I stand corrected, my apologies.

It appears that Samantha, the accused and I share an electoral voting district, (which does not cover the entire Ballarat area, just the eastern part) so in theory I may get summoned for jury duty for the case, if held in Ballarat. (If that's how it works) I feel that the prosecution could potentially want me on the jury, as Samantha and I share a lot of similarities. The defense? Not so much.

I do understand that the only random part of jury selection it is the initial selection process. Then it's a deep dive into a whole range of things before settling on the final jury. I wonder just how many people get the initial letter for each case before it gets whittled down to the final 12, and however many extras they keep on hand. Does anyone have an idea?

In relation to a prior post of mine, here's the reasons why you can be asked to be excused:

What if I am unable to attend?
If you have a valid reason why you cannot attend, you may apply to be deferred to a more convenient time. You may also have a valid reason to be excused. These include:
 advanced age
 ill health or disability
 reside 50km from the Melbourne court, or 60km from the regional court listed on your summons
 self-employed
 primary carer of children or other family members during business hours
 casual employee with unpredictable hours
 full time student or apprentice
 work for a small business

Click to expand...
I was on jury for a murder once. The murder occurred in a town about an hour + away from where the trial took place. It's not at all like Bull. They only know your name, address, occupation. You don't complete any questionnaires, or answer any questions other than can you be impartial in this case. We were just a bunch of randoms thrown together.
 
BreakingNews said:
I was on jury for a murder once. The murder occurred in a town about an hour + away from where the trial took place. It's not at all like Bull. They only know your name, address, occupation. You don't complete any questionnaires, or answer any questions other than can you be impartial in this case. We were just a bunch of randoms thrown together.
Click to expand...
Was that in Victoria? That's interesting that no questions are asked beyond whether you have the ability to be impartial. I'm guessing a lot more rides on body language and profiling that I originally thought.
 
Nifty said:
View attachment 494507

Officers recently obtained videos from a light industrial and residential area, with homes and businesses in Elsworth, Joseph and Butt streets confirming police requested their security footage.

Elsworth St leads to bushland managed by Parks Victoria.

It is not known if any of the footage obtained shows Ms Murphy or any vehicles of interest.

Officers have also searched the area, which includes car detailing, roller-door and gymnasium businesses.




* Possibly SM, Could have been taken firstly to an Industrial building

And then later sadly dumped somewhere

If this was the case, hopefully police have got some DNA and other evidence as well




View attachment 494511


View attachment 494508
Click to expand...
The first thing, that catches my eye, is Central Self Storage (near Precision Automotive) .... What, if SM is there, in a damaged car. :(
 
BreakingNews said:
You get selected from the electrol roll. It is completely random.
I would think that if this goes to the supreme court for trial by jury, the accused or legals for him will request the case gets transferred to Melbourne. That is common in high profile cases to enable distance from the locals and a wider selection of jurors who don't know anyone personal, and haven't been privy to local gossip. It's the local gossip that can get this case thrown out.
Click to expand...

That was exactly my point when I wrote about unbiased Jury and trial in Melbourne.

As far away as possible from locals and rumour saturated town.
Where half of the population is known either to the victim/ her family or the accused/his family.

But I was lectured about Jury of "his peers".

IMO "his peers" are Australian citizens,
not exactly only locals.

But then,
what do I know ?
I don't live in Australia :rolleyes:

JMO
 
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Dotta said:
That was exactly my point when I wrote about unbiased Jury and trial in Melbourne.

As far away as possible from locals and rumour saturated town.
Where half the population is known either to the victim or the accused or his family.

But I was berated about Jury of "his peers".

IMO "his peers" are Australian citizens, not exactly only local.

JMO
Click to expand...
It's a very long way out for that to even be a factor in any trial., for starters, no one knows who his barrister is, and it is his barrister that has to request a change of venue and demonstrate the need for a change of venue.. It is not often granted, for example, a bloke in Sydney, recently, on trial for murdering his wife, a book was written about it ( this is all before his final trial ) a podcast that went world wide, a series in a major Australian newspaper that went for weeks.

He did not get a change of venue, and it was specifically requested on the strength of saturation in the press. which would taint the jury, so the barrister believed. It was refused.

The population of Ballarat is 105,000.. even if its half, thats a lot of people to be known by.

Melbourne is only 105 klms away, where the newspapers are the same that Ballarat reads. Not a guarantee that any jury from Melbourne would not be as ' tainted,' or biased, in that context.

One reason it could be shifted to Melbourne, is security. That is , if it could not be agreed to video the accused to the Ballarat court, and the insecurity of transporting the accused 105 kms up to Ballarat and back to Melbourne every day of the trial.
 
Dotta said:
That was exactly my point when I wrote about unbiased Jury and trial in Melbourne.

As far away as possible from locals and rumour saturated town.
Where half of the population is known either to the victim/ her family or the accused/his family.

But I was lectured about Jury of "his peers".

IMO "his peers" are Australian citizens,
not exactly only locals.

But then,
what do I know ?
I don't live in Australia :rolleyes:

JMO
Click to expand...
If the jury is selected from the electoral roll area that the crime took place in, then it's a huge area, and I wouldn't call everyone a local. The area is 3,915.29 km2. It takes in the eastern side of Ballarat only, and a whole lot of rural areas and towns. Wikipedia says there are 52,476 voters in the electorate.

Eureka District

Information about the Victorian State district of Eureka, including current MP, maps and results.
www.vec.vic.gov.au www.vec.vic.gov.au

en.wikipedia.org

Electoral district of Eureka - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
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