Sbtc

[BrotherMoon]

hello all. this topic interests me in that you hate to see someone get away with the murder of a child. i've read a lot of what you all at this forum (and others as well as other sources of evidence) and "saved by the cross" makes the most sense to me.
1. according to all the experts - patsy either cannot be eliminated as the writer or is probably the writer. there may be others who can't be eliminated, but were any others in the house? looking at comparisons my self, i would wager she was the writer.
2. patsy's has got some unconventional spiritual beliefs with some roots in christianity (listen to her talk about her faith and tackling cancer etc...)
3. researchers have written about the significance of sbtc (that expression) to certain sects of christianity (fundamentalists maybe, can't remember) which i think relate to forgiveness of sin (again don't remember the specifics)
4. patsy makes some foolish and/or inappropriate comments at times and is simply not above doing something stupid like signing off with something that has real significance to an otherwise blatantly phoney ransom note

in my mind, patsy (with input from others) wrote the note and the closing represents her warped belief that somehow whatever she did (at minimum covering up an accidental death) is ok because she is saved by the cross -- and thus has victory over her own involvement

just thought i'd throw in a couple of cents.

Check out www.Seraph.net

 

[iron]

Check out www.Seraph.net

thanks. that site is where i got much of my info (obviously i couldn't remember many details). seems to fit patsy to a "t" imo.

 

[Eagle1]

If I remember correctly from a long time back, the Seraph article, like all fools-rush-in-too-opinionated was just way too pat. What do they know?

What Bro. Moon said in one of the first posts of this thread about the history of men trying to run Christianity and often failing miserably may indeed have some bearing on case.

Whoever wrote the note just may have had that in mind. Or, may have felt the acronymn would cast a magic spell of forgiveness or something, as I believe someone else almost said. Angel K777, the acronymn may even have been a slip of the tongue not meant as truth but just what was weighing heavily on a confused someone's mind. (Confusing murder with Christianity as if the two things could go together?) Just beating the bushes like everyone else.

 

[Eagle1]

Maybe a web search would find such a phrase if one in Latin exists. That was probably a good thought, Seeker. I can't think of proper search words but maybe you or someone can.

 

[Nehemiah]

Victory! Standing By To Collect

(Not really what I think. Just a random thought. LOL)

 

[TLynn]

Re: JAR

In PMPT - the BPD felt there was still a window of time for JAR. The only reason he was "cleared" was due to a negotiation with the Ramseys for an interview.

I would think JAR took a handwriting test.

Wouldn't it be something if after all these years of speculation on SBTC - they were just randomly chosen. :banghead:

 

[BrotherMoon]

Re:
Wouldn't it be something if after all these years of speculation on SBTC - they were just randomly chosen. :banghead:

Randomly chosen is an oxymoron.

random 1. proceeding, made, or occurring without definite aim, reason or pattern.

choose 1. to select from or in preference to another or other things or persons 2. to prefer or decide.

 

[twizzler333]

I think TLynn meant these letters may have been "selected" at random from the 26 letters of the alphabet. So I think we all understood exactly what TLynn meant by "randomly chosen". To choose is to select something, you said it yourself in your post of the definition of the word.

 

[BrotherMoon]

I think TLynn meant these letters may have been "selected" at random from the 26 letters of the alphabet. So I think we all understood exactly what TLynn meant by "randomly chosen". To choose is to select something, you said it yourself in your post of the definition of the word.

Ya can't select randomly either. Da point is there is a guiding factor that produces repeating patterns that turn a confusing thing into something recognizable with an identifiable source. The only way Patsy could have come close to randomness was to use something like scrabble tiles. Since she probably pulled the acronym letters out of her head her mind becomes the guiding factor and similar patterns will then show up in other products of her creative life, and they do.

The predilection to see randomness in the ransom note automatically cuts off the pathway to see it's source. The four letters were coupled with a complete word. Together they form a pattern that is typical of mythological symbols.The translation of S.B.T.C as saved by the cross is typical of charasmatic Christianity. Quaternities are typical of mytholgy in general and also show up in the creative life of psychotics. The direction of Christianity hinged on the vision of Constantine; the laborum and the phrase In Hoc Signo Vinces, a quaternity.

The ransom note has a high degree of form, pattern and symolism typical of dreams. It is the product of a mind in a certain state of quasi-consciousness that has nothing to do with randomness.

 

[twizzler333]

I don't believe they were selected at random. I believe they have some meaning to them. I was just saying that I think we understood what TLynn was trying to say when BrotherMoon tried to correct her or whatever he was attempting to do. I took TLynn's statement about the random letters to be a facetious statement, nothing more. I think the ransom letter was more directed at John and that it was definitely someone who had a "beef" with him in some way. IMO

 

[harleysnana]

I usually read on the Laci board, but wondered here the other day to read up on the death of this poor little girl!

The note has always been an interesting part of this case for me!
I have always thought that Patsy killed JonBenet.

I think the note was kind of a threat from Patsy to John and made to look like a ransom note!
I think that Patsy killed her, and John found out about it and was forced to help her "prepare" her poor little body to be found.
I think Patsy had something to hold over John, and so he had no choice but to help her cover up!

Parts in the note that make me think it was kind of a "John... you better help me get away with this or I will let your little secret out" note?

1. Addressed to "Mr. Ramsey" -When I want to get my husbands attention I call him "Mr. Burningham" so I think Patsy wanted to make sure "Mr. Ramsey" was listening to her.

2. "Sly Dog" -A man who has something big to hide is a "sly dog"

3. "Your not the only Fat Cat" -meaning I (the note writer) am also smart and cleaver, and I am also in charge of what comes out in this investigation.

4. Victory - meaning "I WIN" (this makes this a game, "If I tell, you go down for what you have to hide... you don't want to go down... so I win")

5. SBTC - Someone Better Think Careful (a warning to John …. think about what you’re doing.... if you tell on me then your dirt comes out!)

This is all just my opinion... maybe I am way off, but it is some things I have thought about!

 

[Blazeboy3]

Well I am not an IDI theorist but I'll comment on SBTC nonetheless.

As I've said before, I do not believe that this acronym SBTC at the end of the ransom note means anything real at all.
Why, in a fake note where everything in it is a lie and motivated to deceive - would the writer then be "truthful" at the end of the note by writing an acronym that truly stands for something "real"?
C'mon!
It would only really stand for something if the note were written in truth!
To kidnap and collect ransom by some intruder!
It was not.

SBTC was just hastily written in a panic like everything else in the note.

One thing it DOES do though - points yet again to Patsy Ramsey who is known for her knack for using acronyms.

~Angel~

IMHO "DITTO"!!!

 

[Blazeboy3]

I usually read on the Laci board, but wondered here the other day to read up on the death of this poor little girl!

The note has always been an interesting part of this case for me!
I have always thought that Patsy killed JonBenet.

I think the note was kind of a threat from Patsy to John and made to look like a ransom note!
I think that Patsy killed her, and John found out about it and was forced to help her "prepare" her poor little body to be found.
I think Patsy had something to hold over John, and so he had no choice but to help her cover up!

Parts in the note that make me think it was kind of a "John... you better help me get away with this or I will let your little secret out" note?

1. Addressed to "Mr. Ramsey" -When I want to get my husbands attention I call him "Mr. Burningham" so I think Patsy wanted to make sure "Mr. Ramsey" was listening to her.

2. "Sly Dog" -A man who has something big to hide is a "sly dog"

3. "Your not the only Fat Cat" -meaning I (the note writer) am also smart and cleaver, and I am also in charge of what comes out in this investigation.

4. Victory - meaning "I WIN" (this makes this a game, "If I tell, you go down for what you have to hide... you don't want to go down... so I win")

5. SBTC - Someone Better Think Careful (a warning to John …. think about what you’re doing.... if you tell on me then your dirt comes out!)

This is all just my opinion... maybe I am way off, but it is some things I have thought about!

I've missed the SLY DOG mention...help?

 

[harleysnana]

I've missed the SLY DOG mention...help?

Ooops... my bad!

Sorry it's "stray dog"
Now don't ask me how this fits in to my "theory"... LOL!

Thanks!

 

[BlueCrab]

In my opinion S.B.T.C = Subic Bay Training Center, or Subic Bay Communications Center. The initials were likely taken from words fancily handwriiten on a large picture of a warship that hung over John Ramsey's desk in the third-floor bedroom.

The fake ransom note was from "a small foreign faction", so when it came time to sign off, after three pages of gibberish, the writer(s) apparently needed a connection to something foreign. The picture of the warship in the master bedroom provided that foreign connection.

Linda Wilcox was the Ramsey's housekeeper from 1993 to 1995. Here's what Linda Wilcox had to say to Larry Schiller when she was interviewed for PMPT (pg 337, pb):

"I don't remember if I told them (the police) about the large photograph John had of an aircraft carrier. On the bottom of the picture in fancy writing were the words 'Subic Bay Training Center'. The script was faint because it blended in with the water, so the words were hard to read. It used to hang behind his desk in the bedroom."

There was no "Subic Bay Training Center" at Subic Bay in the Philippines, but there was a "Subic Bay Telecommunications Center" there. Maybe Linda Wilcox mis-remembered that one word. In either event, the initials of the handwritten words were S.B.T.C.

The only formal training that took place at the huge Subic Bay naval base during the Vietnam War, now closed down, was survival training at the "Jungle Environmental Survival Training" center, known as "JEST Camp".

The large photo of the warship, with the possible source of S.B.T.C. handwritten on it, that hung over John Ramsey's desk in the bedroom was never taken in as evidence and is now missing.

IMO the fake ransom note was written by juveniles (perhaps later re-written by Patsy), and they signed off by naively using the initials of "Subic Bay Training Center" written on the picture as the "small foreign faction's" foreign connection to try to make the ransom note look more legitimate.

JMO

 

[BlueCrab]

IMO the fake ransom note was written by juveniles ...

I'd like to expand on my comment above about who may have written the ransom note and signed it S.B.T.C. It could have been a "group" effort.

In my main theory about this case I believe that Burke Ramsey and Doug Stine likely wrote the ransom note. Patsy Ramsey, after she and John discovered what the boys had done, may have then edited and re-written it as part of the coverup prior to calling 911.

Burke and Doug were best friends and were in the same fourth grade class at High Peaks Elementary School when JonBenet was murdered.

As I've stated in the past, the naive note itself, IMO, reads like it was written by a teenage male of about 14 or 15, or a highly intelligent 10-year-old.

The Stines still live in Atlanta and Doug attends Holy Innocents' Episcopal School in that city. From the school's news letter it says that on January 30 to February 1, 2004 Doug Stine and seven other students attended a conference at the University of Georgia to role play and represent the country of Kuwait at the University's annual Model United Nations.

What interested me the most was this sentence in that February 13, 2004 news letter:

"Delegates must give speeches, be skilled negotiators in caucuses, and be EXCELLENT WRITERS who compose and debate resolutions to solve pressing international issues."

IMO Doug Stine and Burke Ramsey were both advanced students and could have written the ransom note on December 26, 1996.

JMO

Edited to add that in November of 2003 Doug Stine was one of 400 students across the U.S. picked to attend the National Youth Leadership Forum on Defense, Intelligence and Diplomacy held in Washington, D.C. Doug is one interesting kid.

JMO

 

[Nehemiah]

Welcome back. Did you have a good trip?

 

[BlueCrab]

Welcome back. Did you have a good trip?

Nehemiah,

Thanks for the welcome back. However, I'm back for just a couple of days. Too many balls in the air at the same time.

Take care.

BlueCrab

JMO

 

[TexSol]

Possibly.
My theory:

Stand By To... is a basic sailing command. IMO, Victory! S.B.T.C is a sailing term and it is directed to John.

Possibly, when Patsy wrote the note John was not yet involved in the cover-up and she was writing a clear message TO HIM in terms he would immediately recognize and understand...

Oh I know what you're thinking. You're thinking: But John is the sailor and the boat racer. Indeed he is, so the other possibility is that John helped compose the note and used a sailing command, a command he used in his sailing competitions: Victory! Stand By To.... C... what might the C mean? Cover?

S.B.T.C = Stand by To Cast off (CAST OFF - To let go). Just a thought in keeping with the nautical possiblity.

:twocents:

 

[iris]

S oon
B omb
T rade
C enters


I don't know the history of the earlier attacks on the Trade Centers before 9/11. Maybe someone else did and wanted it to seem like there was a connection?

As far as I'm concerned it could be the parents or an intruder.


Just wanted to add that I'm not so sure about the S .