The Ramsey case in general

[BetteDavisEyes]

JonBenét Ramsey's father insists his daughter's 28-year-old murder will still be solved

John Ramsey, 80, said advances in DNA technology can help police in Boulder, Colorado, take a fresh look at the 6-year-old girl's murder, which garnered international attention around Christmas 1996.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Andreee]

The head injury is so severe she would have been unconscious. There was no scream from the basement. ( the scream claim was recanted and happened two days earlier)

You say the scream claim by the neighbour was recanted? Can you post an article for reference, thanks! Here is an article from this year re. the neighbour who heard the scream that night, who has passed away.

 

[Andreee]

You say the scream claim by the neighbour was recanted? Can you post an article for reference, thanks! Here is an article from this year re. the neighbour who heard the scream that night, who has passed away.

I forgot to include the article re. the neighbour (now deceased) who heard a scream the night of Jon Benet's murder. I believe her claim for that stands as is, and was not recanted.https://www.yahoo.com/news/jonbenet-ramsey-case-getting-colder-130913015.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

 

[summergirl1]

Where Is JonBenet Ramsey's Brother Burke After Her Murder? (Excl)

Us Weekly has an exclusive — and rare — update on Burke Ramsey's private life following sister JonBenet Ramsey's infamous murder

www.usmagazine.com

 

[Ambrochia01]

Has anyone looked into Scott lee Kimball and if somehow he is tied to the case?He does give off that santa vibe around the time of the murder..He was an informant for the police during his murders.

 

[Skully]

I watched the 3 part Netflix series yesterday. It left me rethinking everything I thought I knew about the case. I wasn't aware of some of the torture this poor little girl went through before her death. But one thing that bothers me is that suitcase. They showed a close up of it, and there was a small piece of glass on it and dirt or debris maybe from a shoe that was on the top of it. If it was used to come into the the basement, like a step, it had to be there prior, if it was used to exit how did the glass get on it, and stay on it and why is there dirt? If you were in the house for hours, and walking all the way up the stairs, all around the home, and then taking her out of her bed all the way down stairs, how is there still dirt on your shoes? I guess it's possible, but then where is the dirt on the carpets in the home? JR says it wasn't there like that under the window, someone put it there to act as a step. OK. So where was it? If the person broke that window to gain access, was the glass flung on top of it then? ok, so now you move it to use it as a step to get out the window, would that little piece of glass stay put? I am asking because this doesn't make sense to me at the moment. Anyone? I will say after learning of her torture and cause of death, I don't think PR, or the son, did this. I don't think a dad would do this. But that is just my thoughts. I wish they would do the DNA again and do the familiar or genealogy to solve this.

 

[Lamima]

@Skully I just watched too. The DNA. I always thought is a red herring. I thought the undies were new ones pulled out of a new pack and too big for her. Not washed so the DNA could be from manufacturing, shipping, the store they were bought...etc. And also was touch DNA, so small bits of skin cells.

The DNA under her nails....could that be from other kids or people at the party that night? Or should it even be her own DNA if she had been digging into her neck to loosen the garrot?

The Suitcase under the window mentioned above...great points. Dirt wouldn't have still been on his shoes nor would the glass likely be there. And I remember something about them saying the broken glass was old and covered in debris. Not newly broken. Even John mentions breaking that window to get in previously. So then, is he saying the bad guy slipped in an already broken window? Convenient.

It does all come down to that ransom note. Written on PR note pad. Written way too long and dramatic like a book (like the book on her bedside table). Amount asked is not a normal number and is similar to his bonus.

Also kid kidnappers/killers don't hang out in a house for all that time doing their deeds, they take kid and go. They don't do a long torturous murder/SA, rifle through office to see info on bonus amount, write a dramatic play like several page ransom note (after doing practice notes), carry body to basement and then rifle through storage room to get Suitcase and climb out window
...not to mention making the garot. Like what? Someone of the 3 there did something (thinking the head injury was the start) and a cover up was staged.

 

[Skully]

@Skully I just watched too. The DNA. I always thought is a red herring. I thought the undies were new ones pulled out of a new pack and too big for her. Not washed so the DNA could be from manufacturing, shipping, the store they were bought...etc. And also was touch DNA, so small bits of skin cells.

The DNA under her nails....could that be from other kids or people at the party that night? Or should it even be her own DNA if she had been digging into her neck to loosen the garrot?

The Suitcase under the window mentioned above...great points. Dirt wouldn't have still been on his shoes nor would the glass likely be there. And I remember something about them saying the broken glass was old and covered in debris. Not newly broken. Even John mentions breaking that window to get in previously. So then, is he saying the bad guy slipped in an already broken window? Convenient.

It does all come down to that ransom note. Written on PR note pad. Written way too long and dramatic like a book (like the book on her bedside table). Amount asked is not a normal number and is similar to his bonus.

Also kid kidnappers/killers don't hang out in a house for all that time doing their deeds, they take kid and go. They don't do a long torturous murder/SA, rifle through office to see info on bonus amount, write a dramatic play like several page ransom note (after doing practice notes), carry body to basement and then rifle through storage room to get Suitcase and climb out window
...not to mention making the garot. Like what? Someone of the 3 there did something (thinking the head injury was the start) and a cover up was staged.

thanks for replying to me. I also think that suitcase would tip over if a grown man used it to step up to the window ledge. At any rate, I can find pro and con arguments for the note, the crime scene, the people in the house, the whole thing. One day I am going to have to make a list and debunk myself.... LOL
I do wonder if JR worked with someone that had knowledge of JBR and her activities. Could said person want to take her but make it look like a kidnapping to draw away from him. I only bring this up, as an intruder had to know a lot of things about the family that night. He had to know that JBR lived there, that the family would be out during that time frame, he had to know the house outside, meaning that grate and window that was hidden, he had to know or at least have knowledge of the bonus amount, but could have found the information when he entered the home. This person knew how to asphyxiate a child to near death and bring her back. I just don't see any of the 3 doing that. The motive wasn't robbery first and then a kidnapping, or they would have grabbed and ran. This person had eyes on her. It would be interesting to know who had this knowledge of the family that night and was a PEDOPHIL. I agree that the note gives me pause, but the kind of torture she endured makes me think an intruder with experience doing this. Thanks again

 

[fridaybaker]

"The War and Peace of ransom notes..."

 

[australianwebsleuth]

I watched the 3 part Netflix series yesterday. It left me rethinking everything I thought I knew about the case. I wasn't aware of some of the torture this poor little girl went through before her death. But one thing that bothers me is that suitcase. They showed a close up of it, and there was a small piece of glass on it and dirt or debris maybe from a shoe that was on the top of it. If it was used to come into the the basement, like a step, it had to be there prior, if it was used to exit how did the glass get on it, and stay on it and why is there dirt? If you were in the house for hours, and walking all the way up the stairs, all around the home, and then taking her out of her bed all the way down stairs, how is there still dirt on your shoes? I guess it's possible, but then where is the dirt on the carpets in the home? JR says it wasn't there like that under the window, someone put it there to act as a step. OK. So where was it? If the person broke that window to gain access, was the glass flung on top of it then? ok, so now you move it to use it as a step to get out the window, would that little piece of glass stay put? I am asking because this doesn't make sense to me at the moment. Anyone? I will say after learning of her torture and cause of death, I don't think PR, or the son, did this. I don't think a dad would do this. But that is just my thoughts. I wish they would do the DNA again and do the familiar or genealogy to solve this.

I agree, I watched the series as well and it caught my eye. If the glass was broken that day, where is the rest of
it. If the glass was broken 6 months earlier, was it cleaned up fully. Was the glass transferred from a shoe onto the suit case?

My conclusion is that the glass was not broken by an intruder. There would be glass everywhere. It may have been possibly transferred by a shoe.

You make a very good point about the dirt. Where is the rest of the dirt on the floor. Are we to assume that they got dirt on their shoes before exiting the house? Why would an intruder need to go through the basement? Why not just go out the front door? We know the intruder could not have locked the basement door behind themselves, therefore could not have departed in the direction of the basement. If you think about it, how did they get in if the door was closed and locked. The door had to be open for the intruder to gain access that way.

This suggests a clumsy attempt at staging imho.

 

[CloudedTruth]

The suitcase has always stood out to me as part of clumsy staging. If it was placed there to suggest an intruder used it to climb in / out of the window, that scenario is unlikely. It would not be there to step on coming in.

Going out, there was a chair nearby which would make much more sense. Have you ever tried to stand on a suitcase? Not sturdy at all, particularly an old style Samsonite.

But for those who are IDI, why wouldn’t this person just go out one of the many doors? Especially since they were so comfortable with the house and apparently not worried about being caught.

 

[australianwebsleuth]

Does anybody know whether the DNA under the finger nails is different or the same to the DNA on the underwear.

 

[k-mac]

Well, here we go again.....
diff story..same narrative from netflix.

cops, prosecution = the bad guys.

Cashing in and the masses love it.

Well this long faithful netflix buyer/consumer is cancelling subscription.
This is the ONLY way this nonsense will stop. If people stop watching it.

BDI or PDI.

what say you @Tricia
Hoping you will post your thoughts after each episode xx

moo

 

[australianwebsleuth]

Does anybody know whether the DNA under the finger nails is different or the same to the DNA on the underwear.

Found the answer. Two different DNA profiles.

Probably should test Jon Benet play friends from time. Could easily be innocent transfer from another child.

 

[Skully]

@Skully I just watched too. The DNA. I always thought is a red herring. I thought the undies were new ones pulled out of a new pack and too big for her. Not washed so the DNA could be from manufacturing, shipping, the store they were bought...etc. And also was touch DNA, so small bits of skin cells.

The DNA under her nails....could that be from other kids or people at the party that night? Or should it even be her own DNA if she had been digging into her neck to loosen the garrot?

The Suitcase under the window mentioned above...great points. Dirt wouldn't have still been on his shoes nor would the glass likely be there. And I remember something about them saying the broken glass was old and covered in debris. Not newly broken. Even John mentions breaking that window to get in previously. So then, is he saying the bad guy slipped in an already broken window? Convenient.

It does all come down to that ransom note. Written on PR note pad. Written way too long and dramatic like a book (like the book on her bedside table). Amount asked is not a normal number and is similar to his bonus.

Also kid kidnappers/killers don't hang out in a house for all that time doing their deeds, they take kid and go. They don't do a long torturous murder/SA, rifle through office to see info on bonus amount, write a dramatic play like several page ransom note (after doing practice notes), carry body to basement and then rifle through storage room to get Suitcase and climb out window
...not to mention making the garot. Like what? Someone of the 3 there did something (thinking the head injury was the start) and a cover up was staged.

You make some really good points, thank you. I have to say that none if it makes sense to me with either theory, by that I mean we can say that a Kidnappers doesn't do this, until he does, and same with the parents. I have worked over 40 homicide cases with my agency, and I have seen the most bizarre things that you can't wrap your mind around. Also if they gave this much of the case to MSM, what did they hold back? That is a shame, because if someone does confess, how do you know it's a real confession? We give nothing out, for a reason. People just don't act the way you think or expect them to act. I can testify to this. Anyway hope it gets solved one day.

 

[InstantProof]

To make everything fit, the intruder has tremendous access to this house; reading John's pay stubs, fixing pineapple snacks, sitting and writing a 3 page letter on Patsy's pad, etc, while the dog is away and the house alarm is disabled- but he's having to balance on a suitcase in and out a tiny broken basement window? Just use any door.

"Inside job"/ someone with a key or "Burke left the front door unlocked" makes more sense in an intruder theory/staging imo.

 

[australianwebsleuth]

You make some really good points, thank you. I have to say that none if it makes sense to me with either theory, by that I mean we can say that a Kidnappers doesn't do this, until he does, and same with the parents. I have worked over 40 homicide cases with my agency, and I have seen the most bizarre things that you can't wrap your mind around. Also if they gave this much of the case to MSM, what did they hold back? That is a shame, because if someone does confess, how do you know it's a real confession? We give nothing out, for a reason. People just don't act the way you think or expect them to act. I can testify to this. Anyway hope it gets solved one day.

You worked 40 homicides.
How does the door get latched from the other side of the door while escaping through the basement?
How does the dirt get on the shoes after walking around inside?

The simplest explanation is that someone latched the basement door from the inside.
Dirt could not have got on the suitcase while escaping. Its not possible
If you believe it is an intruder then the only way the dirt can get on the suitcase is while entering the premises.
Then why was the suitcase under the window? Where are the footmarks inside? Left dirt all over a suitcase but nothing on the floor!

The simplest explanation is that what ever happened to Jon Benoit did not happen this way. You would think John Smit, the Sherlock Holmes of Detectives would realise this. I have my suspicions about what happened. I am pretty sure her parents did not kill her.

 

[Angeline]

I just finished watching the Netflix special.

Admittedly, I haven't been following this case closely over the years. I'm sure others are far more educated on it.

Here's some observations/questions:

The garotte. I got the impression that you'd have to have a certain level of knowledge about knots to make such a thing. Who would have the knowledge to make one? The internet hadn't been around for very long back then. They seem to be used for just one purpose - to kill/assassinate.

If the perp was an intruder and kidnapped JBR, was she taken away and brought back deceased after the family notified police? I know they didn't search the whole house initially, but was there any evidence of her being moved and brought back?

There were signs of a stun gun being used on her? I hadn't heard that before.

Had the perp been inside the house before to get familiar with the layout? Perhaps sneaked around while everyone was home, hence never setting off alarms? Perhaps night vision goggles used to avoid using a flashlight?

 

[Angeline]

If you believe it is an intruder then the only way the dirt can get on the suitcase is while entering the premises.
Then why was the suitcase under the window? Where are the footmarks inside? Left dirt all over a suitcase but nothing on the floor!

SBM.

Maybe they took JBR from the house, then came back to dump her body in the basement?

 

[australianwebsleuth]

Look at the big picture in the response to this case by law enforcement.

We have parents who were not interviewed soon after death. Lawyered up. Their right. All sorts of religious overtones. Connected to Conservative establishment.
We have district attorney who are at odds with the police investigating.
We have a detective brought in as an expert by DA. All sorts of Religious overtones. Seems to ignore the evidence of the latched door to the basement.
A grand Jury whose findings are ignored by District attorney/prosecutor.

I am wondering whether they all belong to the lodge. Protecting their 'brother'.

Sometimes the best way of dealing with this is to let the 'sunlight' in.