SC - Heather Elvis, 20, Myrtle Beach, 18 Dec 2013 - #14

[Motherof5]

It seems to me that a profiler would be most useful, when LE does not have a clear suspect.

True and a profiler is also helpful when LE has a clear suspect/suspects and is trying to decide exactly what happened and where HE was taken to.

 

[Motherof5]

Could a profiler also be used to try to predict the behavior of a perp?

Yes,that is a big part of what they do.

 

[Foxfire]

I think one job of a profiler would be creating a list of characteristics about Heather's killer, and releasing them to the public. That seems like something they would do when they think a stranger is responsible, but don't have a suspect. So people call in about those who fit the description, and LE can test their DNA, etc.

I am not sure if a profiler could rule out SM, especially if they have evidence and a motive and no alibi, etc. Or even rule him in, if they don't have the necessary evidence. I really have no idea how well the profile would stand up in court. It seems like it's done to find possible suspects, who LE can then investigate, rather than used to convict someone.

The profiler in HE's case is not from the FBI but from SLED. The SLED profiler is in addition to the FBI agent. This is what the profiler does.


Offender profiling, also known as criminal profiling, is a behavioral and investigative tool that is intended to help investigators to accurately predict and profile the characteristics of unknown criminal subjects or offenders.

It's confirmed.

http://www.myhorrynews.com/news/crime/article_ada6ad1c-8f77-11e3-8ca7-001a4bcf6878.html

Unknown criminal subjects or offenders? Interesting. A profiler on the case makes me wonder if they are looking at other possibilities besides SM and/or TM. How common is it to have a profiler on the case when you know who did it?

A profiler is very useful no matter who LE is suspecting..stranger or otherwise. The profiler will look at things such as,HE's car,He's apartment,her SM,family,job,friends,relationships and of course her phone records,as well as anything and everything else that is apart of HE's world. All of those things will help point the profiler and LE towards a stranger or someone that HE knew.

Yes, Motherof5, victimology is very important to a profiler, but imo, information as to suspects and POIs identified may not want to be known by behavioral profilers entering an investigation. In case of perceived hypothesis in the original investigation, the profiler's conclusions may be contaminated.
Behavioral profilers are not only used in investigations, but also as expert witnesses in prosecutions, as consultants during trial, and at times to recommend the best prosecution strategy used to insure conviction.

 

[passionflower]

JMOO, why did LE wait so long to bring n a profiler?

 

[Motherof5]

How do you create a profile if you already have a suspect? I feel like bias would be inevitable.

LE hasn't named any suspects as far as I know. I'm trying to explain that the profiler will help paint a picture of the perp/perps. If LE has a suspect in mind,the profiler will still offer their own opinion and it could be very different than LE's opinion of who they should pursue. It wouldn't matter to a profiler who LE is looking at if anyone. There wouldn't be any bias because the profiler will develope a suspect by looking at all of the things I've already mentioned and they will build their profile based on what they find. It may or may not match LE's idea of who the perp could be. LE looks at clues and facts and circumstances. A profiler will look at all of that and more.

 

[Motherof5]

JMOO, why did LE wait so long to bring n a profiler?

I'm not sure if the profiler was just brought in or we are just hearing about it now?

 

[JnRyan]

JMOO, why did LE wait so long to bring n a profiler?

I don't if LE stated how long the profiler had been there. I wonder if it isn't a result of the governor being contacted earlier since the profiler works for the state.

 

[Foxfire]

Would a profiler be able to help predict where a certain POI would hide or dispose of a body? I believe they need to find Heather.

WideOpen, geographic profilers/profiling is used for predicting the likely distances and areas of body disposal as well as other geographical info..

JMO

Could a profiler also be used to try to predict the behavior of a perp?

I wouldn't be surprised if a profiler also suggested psychological ways to question a particular suspect to try and get the subject to confess.

I think one job of a profiler would be creating a list of characteristics about Heather's killer, and releasing them to the public. That seems like something they would do when they think a stranger is responsible, but don't have a suspect. So people call in about those who fit the description, and LE can test their DNA, etc.

I am not sure if a profiler could rule out SM, especially if they have evidence and a motive and no alibi, etc. Or even rule him in, if they don't have the necessary evidence. I really have no idea how well the profile would stand up in court. It seems like it's done to find possible suspects, who LE can then investigate, rather than used to convict someone.

John Douglas profiled R. Hansen to a tee. He had pegged him with a studder or lisp, bad complexion, as an independent business owner, church going with a family. Hansen owned a bake shop where LE frequented(pastries) and was a pillar of the community. Although a suspect in the murder of many prostitutes, Hansen convinced investigators that it was all a misunderstanding.
Hansen's personal info wasn't made available to John Douglas or Roy Hazelwood, until the preliminary unsub profile was complete.

Serial Killers: Profiling the Criminal Mind: 'A & E'- Disc 1 - 1994

After reading an article in Psychology Today about the BSU and criminal profiling, the FBI BSU/BAU was contacted by the Alaskan State Trooper Detective Glenn Flothe, requesting assistance after being denied a search warrant by a judge, for lack of probable cause. Detective Flothe began telling FBI Profiler Roy Hazelwood about Robert Hansen.

Hazelwood said, "No, No, No"! Detective Flothe was advised by Hazelwood, not to give information pertaining to the suspect, only the victims and the specifics of the investigation.(An Artist is revealed by reviewing his Artwork)...
In the A & E documentary Detective Flothe states that John Douglas and Roy Hazelwood profiled Robert Hansen, and Douglas stipulated that the suspect would most likely have a lisp and have low self esteem, among other characteristics...

Criminal Behavior Profiling is not based on lucky guesses, but many years of research, interviews on many Serial Killers prior, crime scene analysis, deductive reasoning, common sense, as well as the ability to peel away the mask of normalcy and enter the darkness of the minds of those beyond evil...
**********
FYI: John Douglas, predicted to the day that Atlanta, GA: Child Serial Killer Wayne Williams, would fake a medical emergency to gain sympathy from the jury during his trial. Williams complained of chest pains and was rushed to Grady Hospital, where Doctors found no signs of a heart condition...

John Douglas, advised Prosecutor Myers, in the Larry Gene Bell, Death Penalty Trial, Lexington Co., SC, for the Murder of Sherry Faye Smith, that Bell would cause an outburst or disturbance in the courtroom on the first day.
To the Prosecutors amazement, Bell acted out Douglas's prediction...
Bell was executed in 1996....

The Frozen Ground Trailer - YouTube

 

[Motherof5]

Yes, Motherof5, victimology is very important to a profiler, but imo, information as to suspects and POIs identified may not want to be known by behavioral profilers entering an investigation. In case of perceived hypothesis in the original investigation, the profiler's conclusions may be contaminated.
Behavioral profilers are not only used in investigations, but also as expert witnesses in prosecutions, as consultants during trial, and at times to recommend the best prosecution strategy used to insure conviction.

I understand what you're saying. IMO it may depend on the actual profiler. I've seen LE point the finger at one suspect and then a profiler looks at everything that LE has,takes that into consideration,creates their profile and comes up with a different suspect or POI entirely.

 

[Foxfire]

Irony: CUE 2014 Missing Person Conference - 'Breaking the Silence'
One of the speakers is serial killer expert Dr. Scott Bonn PhD..
http://www.ncmissingpersons.org/national-conference-2/

Dr. Scott Bonn
Topic: The Curious Allure of Serial Killers
Dr. Scott Bonn is Professor of Criminology, media expert, public speaker, frequent guest analyst and commentator, and author of the critically acclaimed book, “Mass Deception.” He is an expert on state crime and serial killers.
http://docbonn.com

 

[Rochestergirl]

If SLED Senior Special Agent Barton is on the case, Heather is one step closer to coming home......

SLED gains elite criminal profiler
Staff reports
Posted: Monday, August 17, 2009 12:01 a.m.,
Updated: Monday, March 19, 2012 12:29 p.m.
(snip)

The South Carolina Law Enforcement Division has gained an elite certified criminal investigative profiler now that Senior Special Agent Bo Barton has finished a four-year training program.

Barton is a graduate of Charleston Southern University, where he earned a master's degree in criminal justice. The Lexington County native is one of 106 certified criminal profilers worldwide, according to SLED. The agency is one of five in the United States to have a certified profiler on staff.

(snip)
To be certified, Barton took part in the ICIAF's academic curriculum and apprenticeship, including field studies with the Ontario Provincial Police in Canada, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement in Miami, and the FBI in Quantico, Va.

More@Link:

http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20090817/PC1602/308179969

FWIW, I truly believe if SSA Barton isn't directly assigned to this case, he will be made available as a resource to whomever is. His training would be invaluable, and he is a direct link to contacts at the FBI. :moo:

Since he was brought in in Aug 2009 I wonder if it was for the BD case. Sorry I don't have much faith because SLED was brought in for her case and it has become cold.

 

[Salem]

Good morning, everyone!

Just a quick note to let you all know we are NOT allowing links to the new website at this time until we have more information.

Thanks,

Salem

 

[cluciano63]

http://www.wbtw.com/story/24665012/father-of-missing-woman

"MEN CLAIM THEY HAVE MISSING MYRTLE BEACH WOMAN; FATHER FILES REPORT"

Just saw above link (among many) in Heather's media thread...

Wondered if it had been posted here yet?

:seeya:

I thought what they said was "Heather was first, M is next"...not that they, or anyone "has" her?

 

[cluciano63]

There is a pic of H on her FB page dated dec. 8th, that seems recent as it looks more like her photo from the car, IMO. Since her family and friends are pushing her flyer in case she is spotted...maybe they should use that one and offer it with a variety of haircuts and colors, as surely if she IS alive and somehow out and about, she is likely to be disguised, whether as a kidnap victim or a runaway. I have no idea how to do this...but have seen it in other cases.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

There is a pic of H on her FB page dated dec. 8th, that seems recent as it looks more like her photo from the car, IMO. Since her family and friends are pushing her flyer in case she is spotted...maybe they should use that one and offer it with a variety of haircuts and colors, as surely if she IS alive and somehow out and about, she is likely to be disguised, whether as a kidnap victim or a runaway. I have no idea how to do this...but have seen it in other cases.

Unfortunately, I can't see this happening. Considering that they've only shown about 20 pictures of their daughter, with about half being years old, and no pictures of her tattoos...I find it very unlikely that they will show Heather with a variety of haircuts and colors.

Have they released a description of the clothes she was seen wearing in the car picture?

 

[Aint Bee]

I thought what they said was "Heather was first, M is next"...not that they, or anyone "has" her?

The article in The Sun News cites the incident report:

Terry Elvis told police he exited the rear of his sign shop in the Market Common shopping district on Feb. 4 and saw a jeep – raised “significantly” above its normal height – with two men inside. The passenger yelled, “We already have Heather, Morgan is next,” according to an incident report.

Read more here: http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/20...ce-investigate-threat-made.html#storylink=cpy

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I thought what they said was "Heather was first, M is next"...not that they, or anyone "has" her?

I must admit... I am behind on this thread... And it seems this article (and similar ones) have already been discussed...

According to the link we are referring to... The quote by the two males is:

"We already have Heather, (TE's other daughter) is next."

The link is just one of the articles I found first...

This may be a mistake in reporting, though...

:dunno:

 

[cluciano63]

http://www.carolinalive.com/news/story.aspx?id=1004566#.UvfPCn-9KSM

Well in this article...the title says "have Heather" but the quote in article says "Heather was first, M is next" so just like much else in this case, either reporting is f'ed up or people are saying different things to different sources...

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

http://www.carolinalive.com/news/story.aspx?id=1004566#.UvfPCn-9KSM

Well in this article...the title says "have Heather" but the quote in article says "Heather was first, M is next" so just like much else in this case, either reporting is f'ed up or people are saying different things to different sources...

Yep... :sigh:

 

[lovinlife83]

Unfortunately, I can't see this happening. Considering that they've only shown about 20 pictures of their daughter, with about half being years old, and no pictures of her tattoos...I find it very unlikely that they will show Heather with a variety of haircuts and colors.

Have they released a description of the clothes she was seen wearing in the car picture?

They have released pictures of her tattoos. The 2nd poster that was made back when the reward was $1000 had the pictures on it. Also the banner that had $25 k on it that was originally a banner on the fhefb page and also the banner on TE and DE personal pages show her tattoos. TE and DE are not hiding her tattoos.


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