SC - Heather Elvis, 20, Myrtle Beach, 18 Dec 2013 #25 ***ARREST**

[Madeleine74]

If I'm on a jury and the state presents evidence to me that shows the accused was involved in the crime charged, and if there's enough evidence to prove it, even if I don't have a reason why the accused did what s/he did, I can still convict as long as the state proved the charges B.A.R.D. The evidence is #1. Without evidence there shouldn't even be an arrest, let alone a trial. The judge's instructions are also something to be followed, and the instructions lay out the law and the criteria. Pattern jury instructions include an instruction that proving motive, while helpful, is not a burden the state has to meet.

 

[Snowyowl]

Not sure how projecting one's own feelings onto either perp or victim and thinking that is what perps or victim felt, furthers a case. It's not something we'll see the state do in the courtroom since they have to prove what they're alleging. One assumption I've read is that HE was in love with SM. We don't know that. Another assumption I've read is that SM was in love with HE, or in the contrary, that SM was angry and was in a rage with HE. And we don't know that either. I've read that SM must have told HE he was leaving his wife. Where is the evidence of that occurring? It could be that none of those things are true.

The "why" matters to spectators, but the state won't have to prove any of that. One can never know the internal workings and feelings of another person, thus proving said feelings is considered impossible, which is why motive is not an element in murder that requires proof.

the only way you can get "evidence" is if everyone puts their head together and starts connecting things. This helps LE because they don't know everything & they have limited resources. That's why they ask for TIPS.
How can you prove LE knows anything??
PROOF has to be found based on FACTS which are sorted from RUMORS and HEARSAY and everyones actions and experiences in dealing w/suspects. That's how you build a case. Just like there are many copycats out there-most murders etc are not very original.
If you have people exchanging ideas/info they can offer their perspectives.
<modsnip>
I'm very grateful for all the different people on here. We all want to see Heather brought back home

 

[intothedeep]

Questions:

1) Do we know where Heather lived before the condo on River Oaks?
(would PTL have been centrally located between the Moorer home and HE's former address?)

2) Did HE live with BW at her previous address?
(would BW know HE's home activities during the time of the affair?)

3) Did HE have any additional roommates at previous address?

4) Do we know if Tammy is right or left handed?

5) Does TM always wear certain rings on certain fingers?
(any possible clues regarding alleged bruise on HE's right side from alleged parking lot fight with TM in the weeks prior to disappearance)

6) The 3:41am HE cell phone activity has been described several different ways by several different sources (even in mainstream media).
Disregarding SM cell activity posted by TM on Facebook ...
Does anyone know for certain if LE or TE stated 3:41am specifically?
If so, was it described as:

a) the last activity between HE's cell phone and SM
b) the last ping from HE's phone (was PTL stated officially?)
c) the last activity between HE's cell phone and SM's cell phone

Note: a) and c) are different statements -

7) it's been rumored TM found out about the affair on Halloween. Is there any concrete evidence of this? Do we know if Heather worked at TK Halloween night?

 

[jenn7575]

I apologize if this is repetitive but I'm new-ish and doing my best to keep up. And you guys move SO fast. [modsnip]

Thanks in advance!!!

Thanks!

 

[jillycat]

If I'm on a jury and the state presents evidence to me that shows the accused was involved in the crime charged, and if there's enough evidence to prove it, even if I don't have a reason why the accused did what s/he did, I can still convict as long as the state proved the charges B.A.R.D. The evidence is #1. Without evidence there shouldn't even be an arrest, let alone a trial. The judge's instructions are also something to be followed, and the instructions lay out the law and the criteria. Pattern jury instructions include an instruction that proving motive, while helpful, is not a burden the state has to meet.

And having sat on a jury where the foreman decided the person's guilt before we got the chairs warm, where two jurors were throwing evidence on the floor because it was close to Christmas, and they were angry that some of us actually intended to deliberate, and having witnessed jurors rummaging through a backpack that was evidence, but its contents, as per judge instructions, were not, to the above I say, awesome theory.

I don't think anyone disputes that evidence is first and foremost. But trials are not textbook samples and jurors are not programmed by judges and their handbooks.

LE itself has said it can make its case based on circumstantial evidence, but it would be a stronger case with a body. We'll see what the prosecution has. But regardless of what it has or what the defense has in response, no one knows what a jury will do, in this case or any other.

So the point about motive being important to juries in the most human sense is well taken, IMO. It doesn't mean there is a failure to grasp the law. To me, it reflects an understanding of human nature and a concern that jurors are as human sitting in deliberation as they were before they were called to duty.

JMO

 

[MontanaMom]

Questions:

1) Do we know where Heather lived before the condo on River Oaks?
(would PTL have been centrally located between the Moorer home and HE's former address?)

2) Did HE live with BW at her previous address?
(would BW know HE's home activities during the time of the affair?)

3) Did HE have any additional roommates at previous address?

4) Do we know if Tammy is right or left handed?

5) Does TM always wear certain rings on certain fingers?
(any possible clues regarding alleged bruise on HE's right side from alleged parking lot fight with TM in the weeks prior to disappearance)

6) The 3:41am HE cell phone activity has been described several different ways by several different sources (even in mainstream media).
Disregarding SM cell activity posted by TM on Facebook ...
Does anyone know for certain if LE or TE stated 3:41am specifically?
If so, was it described as:

a) the last activity between HE's cell phone and SM
b) the last ping from HE's phone (was PTL stated officially?)
c) the last activity between HE's cell phone and SM's cell phone

Note: a) and c) are different statements -

7) it's been rumored TM found out about the affair on Halloween. Is there any concrete evidence of this? Do we know if Heather worked at TK Halloween night?

TE stated in a MSM interview that the last ACTIVITY on HE phone was at 3:41. LE won't tell him where that activity pinged from. TE didn't specify if he knew what the activity was.

LE has stated that the last ping (not activity) was around 6am.

 

[Madeleine74]

the only way you can get "evidence" is if everyone puts their head together and starts connecting things. This helps LE because they don't know everything & they have limited resources. That's why they ask for TIPS.

I don't consider forums like WS as anything but a place to follow criminal cases and discuss cases with others who share a similar interest, but that's my definition and everyone gets to have their own.

I know from following other crimes I won't hear about much evidence, if any, until it's made public, and usually during a trial. Because I'm not in LE and I'm not a detective I'm not privy to the details of what's been found and what evidence exists. Unless I've witnessed something or found something (like a discarded weapon as one example) I'm not going to be anything but a spectator. I'm just a member of the public, waiting and watching to see what unfolds, reading the news as it becomes available, and hoping for the best, along with everyone else.

 

[MontanaMom]

I apologize if this is repetitive but I'm new-ish and doing my best to keep up. And you guys move SO fast. [modsnip]?

Thanks in advance!!!

Thanks!

Nothing more than speculation....not even a rumor.

 

[Thorn]

Respectfully, why is it always this time of night that we WSer's (who are all here for Heather and the Elvis family) start going at each other? :bigfight:
I understand that this case is extremely emotionally charged, [modsnip]? We all have different thoughts, theories, and expertise that is what makes this forum so special and effective. :moo:

[modsnip] Even if I do not share their opinion! I know how I feel about WS and I can only hope that we can continue to have respect for each other and all involved in the tragic cases we are sleuthing on here. Please, can't we all just get along?

:escape:

 

[jillycat]

TE stated in a MSM interview that the last ACTIVITY on HE phone was at 3:41. LE won't tell him where that activity pinged from. TE didn't specify if he knew what the activity was.

LE has stated that the last ping (not activity) was around 6am.

I hadn't seen any LE statements about pings. Do you have a reference? Not challenging what you're saying, just have not seen that. I thought they only referred to phone activity.

 

[Madeleine74]

So the point about motive being important to juries in the most human sense is well taken, IMO. It doesn't mean there is a failure to grasp the law. To me, it reflects an understanding of human nature and a concern that jurors are as human sitting in deliberation as they were before they were called to duty.

Agreed as well. I was stating the criteria I would use if I was on a jury. I know others would have their own criteria. I personally would not hold a jurisdiction to a burden that wasn't theirs to prove even if I wished they had all the answers. If they prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, then I can vote guilty. I have no reason to think that South Carolina won't be able to prove their case. They may not have a body, though it would make for a strong case if they did. Lots of time still before this case would go to trial.

 

[momrids6]

And having sat on a jury where the foreman decided the person's guilt before we got the chairs warm, where two jurors were throwing evidence on the floor because it was close to Christmas, and they were angry that some of us actually intended to deliberate, and having witnessed jurors rummaging through a backpack that was evidence, but its contents, as per judge instructions, were not, to the above I say, awesome theory.

I don't think anyone disputes that evidence is first and foremost. But trials are not textbook samples and jurors are not programmed by judges and their handbooks.

LE itself has said it can make its case based on circumstantial evidence, but it would be a stronger case with a body. We'll see what the prosecution has. But regardless of what it has or what the defense has in response, no one knows what a jury will do, in this case or any other.

So the point about motive being important to juries in the most human sense is well taken, IMO. It doesn't mean there is a failure to grasp the law. To me, it reflects an understanding of human nature and a concern that jurors are as human sitting in deliberation as they were before they were called to duty.

JMO

Oh- I think some of your fellow jurors must have also been some of my fellow jurors on the last case I sat for. :facepalm:

I had a disgraced former sheriff- now missing all her front teeth due to heroin addiction that she supposedly was now clean from - who immediately named the accident reconstruction LE expert Satan; a rocket scientist who felt the man driving a mack truck should have easily been able to swing his loaded rig around the weaving car of the drunk driver who had fallen asleep while driving on a 2 lane rural highway, etc etc...


I hope the grid searches produce some further evidence; until then, everyone's ideas keep the wheels turning, imo

 

[jillycat]

Oh- I think some of your fellow jurors must have also been some of my fellow jurors on the last case I sat for. :facepalm:

I had a disgraced former sheriff- now missing all her front teeth due to heroin addiction that she supposedly was now clean for - who immediately named the accident reconstruction LE expert Satan; a rocket scientist who felt the man driving a mack truck should have easily been able to swing his loaded rig around the weaving car of the drunk driver who had fallen asleep while driving on a 2 lane rural highway, etc etc...


I hope the grid searches produce some further evidence.

Oh my! Ya, I wanted to do the drugs the defendant was distributing before it was over with.

Have they done grid searches on land anywhere? I wonder how extensive their resources are, and to what extent they have the time and manpower to perform these kinds of searches.

Does anyone know what tasks the feds are performing at this point?

 

[momrids6]

Oh my! Ya, I wanted to do the drugs the defendant was distributing before it was over with.

Have they done grid searches on land anywhere? I wonder how extensive their resources are, and to what extent they have the time and manpower to perform these kinds of searches.

Does anyone know what tasks the feds are performing at this point?

BBM: From what is stated below- it seems they have extensive resources, and manpower from many agencies:

Posted: Thursday, February 6, 2014 4:43 pm | Updated: 3:55 pm, Tue Feb 11, 2014.

Rhodes said there's a task force of about 15 investigators, which in addition to Horry County police investigators, includes two Myrtle Beach police detectives, two Horry County sheriff's office deputies, a solicitor's office investigator and a State Law Enforcement Division profiler and at least three SLED investigators.

Also on the case are individual investigators from the U.S. Marshall's Office and FBI. Horry County police Lt. Chip Squires leads the task force.

http://www.myhorrynews.com/news/crime/article_ada6ad1c-8f77-11e3-8ca7-001a4bcf6878.html

ETA: DNR Divers were in the river assisting with the recent grid searches/re-enactment.

 

[Catlady2]

The most important thing about this case now is finding HE. Now my question is how does a missing person vs. a recovery affect sm and tm's bargaining chip? Isn't their knowledge more of a valuable bargaining tool for less time now? After she is found they don't have anything to trade I mean. I suppose they are willing to gamble and hope she isn't found?
I think it's human nature for sane humans to wonder why something like this can happen. Why? Even with serial killers we go back to their upbringing and try to find why this person snapped. I'm guilty of chewing puzzle pieces trying to make it fit. Imo.

 

[momrids6]

TE stated in a MSM interview that the last ACTIVITY on HE phone was at 3:41. LE won't tell him where that activity pinged from. TE didn't specify if he knew what the activity was.

LE has stated that the last ping (not activity) was around 6am.

WMBF says this;

"According to the police report, Heather received and made a handful of phone calls. Her cell phone activity ended around 6 a.m."

http://www.wmbfnews.com/story/24788974/timeline-of-events-in-the-heather-elvis-case

and myhorry news says this:

Horry County police records are focusing on telephone activity that occurred as late as 6 a.m. Dec. 18 between Heather Elvis&#8217; cell phone and a man with whom she had a relationship history, according to documents obtained by the Carolina Forest Chronicle.

http://www.myhorrynews.com/news/local/aynor/article_e27b8722-81fa-11e3-a440-001a4bcf6878.html

and I personally have seen about 10 different variations across the www:scared:

eta: I can't seem to find the ping info - and am clueless if reporters used correct terminology or not

 

[LBDunes]

If neither Heather or SM had been in contact with each other in months, then a jury member may wonder why SM and TM killed Heather. I do think motive is very important in getting a conviction.

Agree. While I can only speculate on what that motive might be, in this case, I believe LE has the motive. Some how I just feel that they do.

 

[highflyer]

I don't consider forums like WS as anything but a place to follow criminal cases and discuss cases with others who share a similar interest, but that's my definition and everyone gets to have their own.

I know from following other crimes I won't hear about much evidence, if any, until it's made public, and usually during a trial. Because I'm not in LE and I'm not a detective I'm not privy to the details of what's been found and what evidence exists. Unless I've witnessed something or found something (like a discarded weapon as one example) I'm not going to be anything but a spectator. I'm just a member of the public, waiting and watching to see what unfolds, reading the news as it becomes available, and hoping for the best, along with everyone else.

Actually agree with both points of view. This is a place to follow criminal cases and discuss cases as members of the public. And to discuss, bounce off, consider, reason about, and put heads together.

 

[Seajay]

What happened in these two people's lives that would bring them to this point? What happened for them to lose their sense of humanity, where even HE missing doesn't bring an ounce of compassion from TM. I get that her husband slept with HE and she was furious about it. Who wouldn't be? But that fact that HE goes missing and she can show no concern or compassion for HE's father who is desperately looking for his daughter? She instead calls him a jerk and accuses him of intimidating her children???

This woman certainly wouldn't get any awards for having a heart, that's for sure. IMO

Still find it questionable that there is no record of TM at Georgetown. Wonder what that's about?

 

[cluciano63]

Jealousy, lust, etc. have caused murders since the beginning of time. Not the same, IMO, as the mindset of a serial killer, even if the destruction is the same, JMO.