SC - Paul Murdaugh, 22 and mom Margaret, 52, found shot to death, Islandton, 7 June 2021 #5

[Elley Mae]

When my sister was in an accident she received 93,000 and had options in how to receive it monthly over a number of yrs or lump payment which they discouraged.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Alex Murdaugh update: How much SC law firm money taken? When? | The State

 

[Cryptic]

It makes sense to me that Maggie did this. AM and BM were being compelled to provide a full accounting of their finances as part of the Mallory Beach civil suit.

I don't think so- at least not yet. Regarding a full accounting, maybe never.

Defendants cannot be ordered to disclose financial information until after a judgement. Even with a judgement at a lower court, filing an appeal in many states may well delay the need to comply with any Court orders regarding financial disclosures.

Some financial records such are tax filings are usually exempt such orders. Likewise, my general understanding is that Judges do not usually see themselves as debt collectors in the service of injury attorneys.

As a result, orders regarding financial disclosures might be sans "thumbscrews" Token compliance with those orders could be accepted and passed to the plaintiff. In the end, courts will seize assets pursuant to lawsuits, but do usually assist in finding them.

 

[Error505]

Even without criminal charges being pressed by the firm, one can almost be certain the IRS is going to get theirs, which could include jail time should certain legal boundaries be crossed.

I’m unfamiliar with SC laws, but is “pressing charges” left up to the the law firm (victim) as opposed to the SC Attorney General? We may. Em talking $10 million ++. With that said, I have a feeling the law firm may well push to have AM indicted on the embezzlement of funds. Their entire professional reputation and livelihood hangs in the balance. Their reputations are going to take a huge hit collectively as it is, moo.

 

[oviedo]

I don't think so- at least not yet. Regarding a full accounting, maybe never.

Defendants cannot be ordered to disclose financial information until after a judgement. Even with a judgement at a lower court, filing an appeal in many states may well delay the need to comply with any Court orders regarding financial disclosures.

Some financial records such are tax filings are usually exempt such orders. Likewise, my general understanding is that Judges do not usually see themselves as debt collectors in the service of injury attorneys.

As a result, orders regarding financial disclosures might be sans "thumbscrews" Token compliance with those orders could be accepted and passed to the plaintiff. In the end, courts will seize assets pursuant to lawsuits, but do usually assist in finding them.

BBM
We have a litigation for a Living Trust where the Judge just ordered full financial records of the trust maker - no judgment has been rendered yet in this matter so I am not sure what your source is for disclosure of financial information in a civil matter. The rules of discovery are pretty clear in my state. Is SC that different?
JMO

 

[Gardenista]

LOL
Solicitor’s Office says Alex Murdaugh will no longer prosecute its cases as volunteer

https://www.islandpacket.com/news/local/crime/article254055123.html

 

[Cryptic]

I’m unfamiliar with SC laws, but is “pressing charges” left up to the the law firm (victim) as opposed to the SC Attorney General?

I think the concept is the same through out the US:

In the end, it is up to the Attorney General to decide whether or not to press charges after reviewing the strength of the evidence.

Though in the technical sense, AG's can pursue criminal charges with out the consent of the victim (society is then considered the victim?), it is probably very rare that they do so.

So..... a way of looking at it might be: Its up to the AG- but he needs the consent and affirmation of the victim (law firm).

 

[Elley Mae]

Alex Murdaugh update: How much SC law firm money taken? When? | The State

Thanks for link

From link

‘Just send that to a trust account I have set up’,” said the attorney, who didn’t want his name used because he is not authorized to speak publicly about his firm’s internal finances.


Iirc there are 2 trust.

 

[clearskies1]

I’ve wondered if this could open the door to federal intervention.

There are often federal charges when there is an alleged theft/diversion of this kind. The Feds may bring mail or wire fraud charges if they think they can prove use of the US mail or an interstate telephone call/electronic communication made in furtherance of a scheme. JMO.

 

[clearskies1]

I think the concept is the same through out the US:

In the end, it is up to the Attorney General to decide whether or not to press charges after reviewing the strength of the evidence.

Though in the technical sense, AG's can pursue criminal charges with out the consent of the victim (society is then considered the victim?), it is probably very rare that they do so.

So..... a way of looking at it might be: Its up to the AG- but he needs the consent and affirmation of the victim (law firm).

I think it would look really bad if the law firm decided not cooperate if the AG investigates and wants to charge. It's a matter of (potentially) protecting the public. JMO.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I think this was super recent. It seems as if they couldn’t have brought this to SLED’s attention much faster than they did, as they traveled to the crime scene to tell them.

I also wouldn’t be surprised if they reached out to the New York Times themselves.

I think they see which way the wind is blowing, and they want to get ahead of this in a major way.

They’re washing their hands of him, and they want the world to know it.

I think it came to light when the father's estate started through probate. A court date to settle an estate through probate could be about 3 months out due to Covid and heavy court log.

JMO

 

[Elley Mae]

I think the concept is the same through out the US:

In the end, it is up to the Attorney General to decide whether or not to press charges after reviewing the strength of the evidence.

Though in the technical sense, AG's can pursue criminal charges with out the consent of the victim (society is then considered the victim?), it is probably very rare that they do so.

So..... a way of looking at it might be: Its up to the AG- but he needs the consent and affirmation of the victim (law firm).

Seems if they want to save face they will cooperate, it needs to happen soon while it’s fresh.

 

[Cryptic]

BBM
We have a litigation for a Living Trust where the Judge just ordered full financial records of the trust maker - no judgment has been rendered yet in this matter so I am not sure what your source is for disclosure of financial information in a civil matter. The rules of discovery are pretty clear in my state. Is SC that different?
JMO

Yikes, I should have also led the first paragraph with "My general understanding".

A friend of mine was sued (claimed personal injury) and his attorney told him not to worry about any financial disclosures until a judgement.

It might make a difference on the State and the nature of the litigation (liability verse other forms?). Likewise, there could be the issue of the judicial practice of the State. Texas evidently has a lot of jurisprudence of not being very friendly to debt collections.

In either case, I should not have used a blanket "no" as I am now not sure if his lawyer was speaking in the absolute sense or the "very distantly possible, but not going to happen in this case" sense.

 

[scapa]

BREAKING: Maggie Murdaugh Ordered Forensic Accounting of Family Finances Before Her Murder
snipped
MM, the murdered wife of South Carolina legal scion AM, had ordered a forensic accounting of her own, in addition to the accounting done by AM’s law firm that resulted in his sudden resignation the day before he was supposedly shot in the head on a rural road.

Reporter Matt Harris, morning show host on WLNK and host of the podcast “The Murdaugh Family Murders: Impact of Influence,” made the stunning announcement on “Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.”

“That is the word I got from a pretty reliable source,” Harris said. “MM hired a forensic accountant.”

A thread or so back I wondered if Maggie, rather Paul, might have been the actual target of the shooting and, if so, how that changed the likely motive, dynamics and timeline of the crime.

I am still strongly considering that possibility.

Link

The below may already be widely discussed in these threads -- I find the site almost impossible to access and navigate these days, and so read and post rarely -- so apologies if going over well-trodden ground.

I wonder why we have not heard more about PM's mother, the beloved matriarch of this influential family. It strikes me that many if not most of the theories we've heard have her as collateral damage in a planned and (more or less) precisely targeted hit or attack on PM.

But if it was the other way around, and MM was actually the target, with PM as an incidental casualty, then the planner may have nearly everyone looking the wrong way. The positioning of the victims, distances between, other CS details that might illuminate the likely timeline of their deaths would then be among the information kept close among the investigation team.

Just a thought.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

BREAKING: Maggie Murdaugh Ordered Forensic Accounting of Family Finances Before Her Murder
snipped
MM, the murdered wife of South Carolina legal scion AM, had ordered a forensic accounting of her own, in addition to the accounting done by AM’s law firm that resulted in his sudden resignation the day before he was supposedly shot in the head on a rural road.

Reporter Matt Harris, morning show host on WLNK and host of the podcast “The Murdaugh Family Murders: Impact of Influence,” made the stunning announcement on “Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.”

“That is the word I got from a pretty reliable source,” Harris said. “MM hired a forensic accountant.”

 

[NervousNellie]

Thanks for link

From link

‘Just send that to a trust account I have set up’,” said the attorney, who didn’t want his name used because he is not authorized to speak publicly about his firm’s internal finances.


Iirc there are 2 trust.

RBBM - Do you mean two Murdaugh trusts? I imagine AM was managing many trusts (for clients for whom he had won settlements).

 

[muddlehead]

I just found a pretty extensive timeline in MSM:
Murdaugh Murder Timeline: Alex Murdaugh shot in the head

A snapshot of 2021:

June 7, 2021: Alex Murdaugh discovers the bodies of his son Paul and wife Maggie at their 1,770-acre hunting lodge on Moselle Road in Islandton, Colleton County. A 911 call is placed at 10:07 p.m.


"I need the police and ambulance immediately," Alex Murdaugh says in the 911 call. "My wife and child have been shot badly!"

The Colleton County Sheriff's Office responds and secures the scene. South Carolina's State Law Enforcement Division is contacted at 10:28 p.m. to assist. SLED agents arrive at 11:47 p.m.

Murdaugh family friend Tangie Ohmer tells WJCL: "It was just siren after siren..."

June 8, 2021: Authorities confirm the identities of the deceased, referring to the incident as a double homicide. However, they say there is no threat to the public.


June 11, 2021: A graveside service is held at Hampton Cemetery for both Paul and Maggie Murdaugh.

June 14, 2021: The Colleton County Coroner confirms both Paul and Maggie Murdaugh died from multiple gunshot wounds. The estimated time of death is somewhere between 9 and 9:30 p.m.

June 16, 2021: SLED creates a 24-hour dedicated tipline for the case: 803-896-2605.

June 17, 2021: Alex Murdaugh's brothers, Randy Murdaugh IV and John Marvin Murdaugh, appear in an exclusive interview with ABC News in which they plead with the public to come forward with any information. They say they don't know whether the family has enemies but Paul Murdaugh had received threats.


June 21, 2021: SLED releases a handful of heavily-redacted documents shedding light on what deputies discovered the night of the murders.

June 23, 2021: Based on information gathered in the Murdaugh investigation, SLED says it is looking into the 2015 death of Stephen Smith in Hampton County. SLED does not elaborate on what information it obtained.


June 25, 2021: Members of the Murdaugh family formally announce a $100,000 reward for information that leads to arrest in the double homicide.

July 7, 2021: Attorneys representing a survivor of the boat crash that killed Mallory Beach filed a petition alleging law enforcement tried to shift the blame from Paul Murdaugh to their client, Connor Cook.

July 14, 2021: During a court hearing, Circuit Judge Bentley Price said he would review the redactions made by SLED in publicly-released documents pertaining to the case and if he felt they weren’t legal, order more information released.

July 22, 2021: SLED releases the 911 call placed by Alex Murdaugh the night Paul and Maggie Murdaugh were killed.


Aug. 6, 2021: People magazine spotlights the double homicide of Paul and Maggie Murdaugh.

The South Carolina Attorney General's Office drops all charges against Paul Murdaugh in the death of Mallory Beach due to his own death.

Aug. 11, 2021: 14th Circuit Solicitor Duffie Stone sends a letter to South Carolina Attorney General Alan Wilson stating he intends to recuse himself from the investigations into the deaths of Maggie and Paul Murdaugh.

Aug. 17, 2021: Following a Freedom of Information Act request, WJCL receives photos and videos from the South Carolina Attorney General's Office collected as evidence following the boat crash that killed Mallory Beach.

Sept. 4, 2021: Father of Paul Murdaugh and husband to Maggie, Alex Murdaugh is shot in the head while changing a tire in Hampton County, according to a family spokesperson. SLED is investigating. He is hospitalized in Savannah and said to be conscious and speaking.


Sept. 6, 2021: Alex Murdaugh releases a statement that says, in part, he is resigning from his law firm and entering rehab.

Perfect. Thx.

 

[MajorHoople]

Alex Murdaugh Accused of Misappropriating Money from Law Firm, Forced to Resign | PEOPLE

Sep 7, 2021 - People Magazine

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Agree, that seems to be a very unusual way of handling that situation. Maybe that's the way they do things down there. It also sounds like they were trying to get a lot of things done quickly so they could get ahead of the story before it blew up in the national news media.

One would think they would have notified LE when they first confirmed the money was missing and that AM took it. Just a thought, but I wonder if they found out about the embezzlement some time ago, but only recently acted on the information.

Could be they showed up when the information hit the news. With few actual facts being released maybe they thought he might have tried to commit suicide. So they showed up to give information about the missing money.

Or a motive why someone might want to kill his wife and son and him. Could be he was supposed to be there the night of the murders but had to leave unexpectedly due to the emergency with his father and his law partners wanted to make sure LE was considering that angle. At this time I have not read anything that says SLED did not already know about the missing money at the time AM was shot.

JMO

 

[Elley Mae]

RBBM - Do you mean two Murdaugh trusts? I imagine AM was managing many trusts (for clients for whom he had won settlements).

Yes

Later that year, Renee Beach, Mallory Beach's mother, filed a wrongful death lawsuit that alleges, among other things, that prior to the fatal boat crash, several minors consumed alcohol on a private island owned by a Murdaugh family trust. The suit doesn't explicitly name Murdaugh.

Murdaugh mother and son killed: What we know