SC - Paul Murdaugh & mom Margaret Found Shot To Death - Alex Murdaugh Accused - Islandton #21

[StarryStarryNight]

There are lots of comments on here casting Alec as a terrible father, husband, employer and friend. I don’t think I’ve heard any testimony that would suggest that prior to the boat wreck, Alec was an evil man. In fact, all who had contact with him, seemed to like him and this whole murder episode shocked them.
It was after the boat wreck, where Maggie claims they were being sued for 30 million when everything changed. Alec went into full squirrel mode, hiding and stealing any money he could get his hands on.
Did the 4.3 million, Satterfield settlement that Alec stole happen after the boat wreck?
Is there record of him stealing prior to the boat wreck?

There are records of him stealing and running his financial schemes prior to the boat crash.
How much AM was “liked” in the community has to be gauged on influence the Murdaugh family wielded in that area for generations. For decades they decided who faced criminal charges and who did not, who was guilty and who was innocent, who was given a chance at a better life and who was not. They bought juries, ran liquor, did as they pleased. People realized it was beneficial to “like” the Murdaughs.
When I think of AM I see a man that stole from orphans, and the most vulnerable. He had everything…and still chose to steal from people who had nothing. There is nothing likable about AM.

 

[LeeSanson]

According to what I read in the Greenville newspaper, the train DID hit the car driven by the great great grandfather:

"Engineer W.W. Bartlett testified that he did not see the car near the tracks until about 40 yards away, and that Murdaugh had his hand raised as though waving at the train crew. But when the train drew closer, the car started up and stopped directly on the tracks.

On July 24, 1940, The Hampton County Guardian reported that “the impact hurled the automobile approximately 900 feet up the track, totally wrecking it,” and “Murdaugh’s body was found beside the track approximately 150 feet from the crossing.”

Trouble with Trains: The crash – and lawsuit – that helped launch the Murdaugh dynasty

Midnight trains and tragic accidents are recurring themes that steam through the timeline of the Murdaugh family dynasty.

www.greenvilleonline.com

I might've misrepresented the 'rumors'. It's been said, Murdaugh himself was never hit by a train rather it was a staged event. I was concluding he died (killed) before being placed in the car. The 'hand waving' gesture that was mentioned in the article was probably said to make him look alive before the train hit the car.
Like I said, he who controls the narrative gets to write the event (and history). The newspaper/media was weaponized almost immediately upon invention.

 

[Gardenista]

I’m still curious to see where all of the stolen millions of dollars went. I feel like that’s the missing piece of the puzzle. Two kids in college, couple houses (but was applying for a loan for remodeling, not using his stolen millions), housekeepers paid in cash so no benefits or taxes, Mercedes, Gucci, etc. but it seems like his salary and year end bonuses would fund that life? It’s not like they had a private plane, loft in NYC, ski chalet in Switzerland, etc.

He had years that he legit made over $5M (2012) and years that were less - $270K (2017). You can see his yearly legit earnings and yearly fraud earns for 2011 to 2019 in his GJ indictment for tax evasion here

https://www.scag.gov/media/cm1baat3/2022-gs-47-34-indictment-03178212xd2c78.pdf

 

[TTF14]

I'm white but I was very offended when Maggie called her help 'Mexicans'. I get the impression that people who they didn't hobnob with were looked down upon. To me, it's very telling the lack of class (despite their wealth) this family appears to have had.

I was initially offended, too, but I don't know....maybe we shouldn't be. <modsnip> Mexican is not a slur.

 

[clearskies1]

While this case is circumstantial, through some really strong testimonies, I agree with attorney Eric Bland, there are a lot of pieces coming together like a mosaic to complete the picture (Eric Bland's metaphor in a 10 Feb. Nancy Grace podcast) ... Blanca, Shelly, Tinsley, LE videos, etc. ... they seem to be adding up. Just hope that's how the jury is seeing it. Moo.

Changing topics: I'm surprised we aren't discussing the testimony of Paul's friend and now LE, Nathan Tuten. He was an interesting witness. IMO he seemed hostile to both the prosecution and defense but more toward the defense. OMO.

One thing that confused me was that I thought it was Paul's beige AR to which PM and Loving had added the Ace Hardware site that was missing, and the black AR in evidence, that NT identified as Paul's, was actually Buster's.

Any thoughts on his testimony?

This is my understanding: Paul's first AR had a scope. That gun was allegedly stolen around 2018. Buster's black AR also had a scope (this was the AR ID'd by NT in court). Paul's replacement (beige) AR did not have a scope when purchased but Paul and Will Loving added one on. This AR is now missing.

 

[Edvis]

There are records of him stealing and running his financial schemes prior to the boat crash.
How much AM was “liked” in the community has to be gauged on influence the Murdaugh family wielded in that area for generations. For decades they decided who faced criminal charges and who did not, who was guilty and who was innocent, who was given a chance at a better life and who was not. They bought juries, ran liquor, did as they pleased. People realized it was beneficial to “like” the Murdaughs.
When I think of AM I see a man that stole from orphans, and the most vulnerable. He had everything…and still chose to steal from people who had nothing. There is nothing likable about AM.

Like/fear went hand in hand with this family as more bones tumble out of the closet.

 

[TTF14]

As I wrote in a previous comment just now, Alex's great-great grandfather's family most likely started this insurance fraud scheme when he was found dead on the railroad tracks (in his car I think) but was never hit by a train. This is back in the 1920s (?) when people probably just believed one another rather than investigating possible fraud. This family gives me the creeps.

I find myself wondering about everyone who associates with them, too. Dates one of them, etc. Are they all peas in the same pod or just don't care about misdeeds? So fascinating to me, a fearful rule follower!

 

[Edvis]

I was initially offended, too, but I don't know....maybe we shouldn't be. If they ARE Mexican and do many different things around the house, I guess you could just say "the workers" but maybe that wasn't specific enough....would we be offended if she said "the Ukrainians" or "the Kiwis" or something? Mexican is not a slur.

Money and greed has a long history of building walls to separate people no matter the race, sad to say.

 

[LeeSanson]

There are records of him stealing and running his financial schemes prior to the boat crash.
How much AM was “liked” in the community has to be gauged on influence the Murdaugh family wielded in that area for generations. For decades they decided who faced criminal charges and who did not, who was guilty and who was innocent, who was given a chance at a better life and who was not. They bought juries, ran liquor, did as they pleased. People realized it was beneficial to “like” the Murdaughs.
When I think of AM I see a man that stole from orphans, and the most vulnerable. He had everything…and still chose to steal from people who had nothing. There is nothing likable about AM.

Amen. I believe they were bigots and not very sophisticated. For Maggie to refer to her help as "Mexicans" was very telling. I think they employed people like slave owners once did. Sure they probably cared about them to a certain degree but I think that caring made their help almost idolize them. I don't sense any of the Murdaughs innately respected anyone or anything.

I also get the impression Maggie and Alex were more like friends to their boys rather than parental figures. After all, they constantly bought liquor for them whilst underage and hosted a lot of parties. My point, Alex comes off like a juvenile. I think there was arrested mental development in Alex's upbringing which probably carried over to the upbringing of Paul and Buster too.

 

[TTF14]

I apologize if this has been asked and answered, but I thought the khakis, damp towel, etc. in the bathroom were alleged to be Alex's, not Maggie's. That's why there were questions about whether or not blood was on them and if she had cleaned the shower. I think they are saying he killed them, went home and took a shower (when he said he was napping), hastily grabbed a t-shirt from the t-shirt pile, knocked another one down in the process, left his damp towel on the floor, threw away whatever shirt he was wearing, and for some reason left the khakis on the floor. Maybe he meant to grab them, too, and just lucked out that there was no blood spatter on them?

The pile of pajamas on the floor is still odd to me. I guess mostly because they were on the floor in a doorway. Why on the floor? Were they in a bag?? I think they would have said so. Maybe he had them in his hand and got interrupted by something and just hastily put them down and never got back to them?

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

I don’t see how the defense can get around the(sound)video of the three of them being at the murder scene. Do you think defense will not address THAT at all?

Since the killings happened less than 5 minutes later, they're going to have to claim that Alex left at that very moment to go back to the house, and that he somehow managed not to hear any of the shootings. And then that he left the house some 10 or 15 minutes later from that, which is also when he was then trying to call Maggie and text her without a response, but didn't think to simply go to the kennels to find her where he would have just left her. Not to mention also needing to explain why he told such humongous lies about his whereabouts to the police (and to his friends and family).

The last witness Nathan also brought up some bad points against Alex regarding the kennels. He said that they would have turned on the lights out there when it was dark. Apparently the lights were not on when Alex supposedly found them. Meaning an outside killer would have had to turn off the lights for some reason.

Defense have also been trying to say that the water on the ground was from them washing out the kennels at that time. But Nathan also testified that when they would wash out the kennels they would put the dog beds on top of the cages so they don't get wet. I'm sure the beds were not found on any cages that night. (Their defensiveness about this also convinces me that Alex did indeed wash something off out there.)

To be able to get in any explanation for all of that, I see no other way than for Alex to testify. But I don't see how that could be anything other than a disaster for the defense. Even if he managed to use his vaunted people skills on the stand, the jury has heard lots of testimony about how he has lied to his closest friends and family and fooled them for years and years, so whatever he says should get a lot of side eye.

To me, as soon as they got the cell phone timeline data in on when the phones go inactive combined with his voice being identified 100% on the kennel video, the case was over. Nothing other than his guilt explains that. Everything else is superfluous.

 

[TTF14]

Since the killings happened less than 5 minutes later, they're going to have to claim that Alex left at that very moment to go back to the house, and that he somehow managed not to hear any of the shootings. And then that he left the house some 10 or 15 minutes later from that, which is also when he was then trying to call Maggie and text her without a response, but didn't think to simply go to the kennels to find her where he would have just left her. Not to mention also needing to explain why he told such humongous lies about his whereabouts to the police.

The last witness Nathan also brought up some bad points against Alex regarding the kennels. He said that they would have turned on the lights out there when it was dark. Apparently the lights were not on when Alex supposedly found them. Meaning an outside killer would have had to turn off the lights for some reason.

Defense have also been trying to say that the water on the ground was from them washing out the kennels at that time. But Nathan also testified that when they would wash out the kennels they would put the dog beds on top of the cages so they don't get wet. I'm sure the beds were not on any cages that night.

To be able to get in any explanation for all of that, I see no other way than for Alex to testify. But I don't see how that could be anything other than a disaster for the defense. Even if he managed to use his vaunted people skills on the stand, the jury has heard lots of testimony about how he has lied to his closest friends and family and fooled them for years and years, so whatever he says should get a lot of side eye.

To me, as soon as they got the cell phone timeline data in on when the phones go inactive combined with his voice being identified 100% on the kennel video, the case was over. Nothing other than his guilt explains that. Everything else is superfluous.

Thank you. You have a great grasp of the prosecution's plan! I appreciate your insights.

 

[clearskies1]

I apologize if this has been asked and answered, but I thought the khakis, damp towel, etc. in the bathroom were alleged to be Alex's, not Maggie's. That's why there were questions about whether or not blood was on them and if she had cleaned the shower. I think they are saying he killed them, went home and took a shower (when he said he was napping), hastily grabbed a t-shirt from the t-shirt pile, knocked another one down in the process, left his damp towel on the floor, threw away whatever shirt he was wearing, and for some reason left the khakis on the floor. Maybe he meant to grab them, too, and just lucked out that there was no blood spatter on them?

The pile of pajamas on the floor is still odd to me. I guess mostly because they were on the floor in a doorway. Why on the floor? Were they in a bag?? I think they would have said so. Maybe he had them in his hand and got interrupted by something and just hastily put them down and never got back to them?

Yes, it seems that the implication is clearly that the khakis/damp towel were from Alex. (Alex was wearing khakis in the tree video that day). I think Blanca testified that the pajamas were neatly folded -- we don't know why they were there (along with Maggie's clean panties). There has been some speculation here that Alex may have placed them there (or taken them out to ultimately place them somewhere else) to make it appear that Maggie had been staying at Moselle, when in fact she had been in Edisto that day. JMO.

 

[LeeSanson]

I was initially offended, too, but I don't know....maybe we shouldn't be. If they ARE Mexican and do many different things around the house, I guess you could just say "the workers" but maybe that wasn't specific enough....would we be offended if she said "the Ukrainians" or "the Kiwis" or something? Mexican is not a slur.

Categorizing them as "the Mexicans" is certainly derogatory in my opinion. It's right there with saying "those Negros". Why bring up nationality at all? It only shows us how THEY saw people.

You have to remember, this is the deep south where there's old money and deep roots. And if you weren't one of them you were considered beneath them. Especially if you weren't as 'white-breaded" as they were.
Side-note: The destruction of the Georgia Guidestones was the start of the end of those in power.

 

[Weki]

Wining and dining ain't all it's cracked up to be. I'd rather take an unpretentious and beautiful walk with a cup of joe while getting to know someone.

From what I’ve seen of Tinsley I would be surprised if she was able to get a word in on this “romantic” stroll! Defense did well to get him off the stand as quickly as possible thereby signaling to the jury that his testimony was irrelevant and wholly biased. Even Waters tried to get him to be succinct and he wouldn’t! Geez!

 

[Edvis]

Since the killings happened less than 5 minutes later, they're going to have to claim that Alex left at that very moment to go back to the house, and that he somehow managed not to hear any of the shootings. And then that he left the house some 10 or 15 minutes later from that, which is also when he was then trying to call Maggie and text her without a response, but didn't think to simply go to the kennels to find her where he would have just left her. Not to mention also needing to explain why he told such humongous lies about his whereabouts to the police (and to his friends and family).

The last witness Nathan also brought up some bad points against Alex regarding the kennels. He said that they would have turned on the lights out there when it was dark. Apparently the lights were not on when Alex supposedly found them. Meaning an outside killer would have had to turn off the lights for some reason.

Defense have also been trying to say that the water on the ground was from them washing out the kennels at that time. But Nathan also testified that when they would wash out the kennels they would put the dog beds on top of the cages so they don't get wet. I'm sure the beds were not found on any cages that night. (Their defensiveness about this also convinces me that Alex did indeed wash something off out there.)

To be able to get in any explanation for all of that, I see no other way than for Alex to testify. But I don't see how that could be anything other than a disaster for the defense. Even if he managed to use his vaunted people skills on the stand, the jury has heard lots of testimony about how he has lied to his closest friends and family and fooled them for years and years, so whatever he says should get a lot of side eye.

To me, as soon as they got the cell phone timeline data in on when the phones go inactive combined with his voice being identified 100% on the kennel video, the case was over. Nothing other than his guilt explains that. Everything else is superfluous.

Agreed putting AM on the stand would be a tragic move for the defense. Might as well put a Bullseye on his chest and wouldn't get much out of him other then some body bobbing and chomping on mint's.

 

[stmarysmead]

I’m still curious to see where all of the stolen millions of dollars went. I feel like that’s the missing piece of the puzzle. Two kids in college, couple houses (but was applying for a loan for remodeling, not using his stolen millions), housekeepers paid in cash so no benefits or taxes, Mercedes, Gucci, etc. but it seems like his salary and year end bonuses would fund that life? It’s not like they had a private plane, loft in NYC, ski chalet in Switzerland, etc.

I totally agree. They were living somewhat of a high life but in the boondocks of the low country of SC. Even Edisto is a quiet family oriented house…off beach… not a prestigious address. The home was not a beachfront villa in a more fashionable beach resort in SC. MM was not living the life her sister does, not moving in those circles, not owning that type of multiple fashionable real estate.

Yet, AM had a sometime million plus salary and generational wealth. And power. So what were they spending it on? MM enjoyed putting photos of the family at formal events on her FB…but every one is an invitation to something associated with her sisters family. They don’t seem to have a country club, yacht club life of their own; There is one picture of a private jet trip. There are no photos of exotic trips…yet she seems the type that would have wanted that known.

Nothing makes sense. I believe there is a much bigger story somewhere …hidden amd entangled behind omerta values that are protecting many others in AM’s orbit. AM will be a good capo…a good soldier…he will go down….quietly.

 

[Chelly]

I'm white but I was very offended when Maggie called her help 'Mexicans'. I get the impression that people who they didn't hobnob with were looked down upon. To me, it's very telling the lack of class (despite their wealth) this family appears to have had.

"Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me."
F Scott Fitzgerald

 

[TTF14]

Yes, it seems that the implication is clearly that the khakis/damp towel were from Alex. (Alex was wearing khakis in the tree video that day). I think Blanca testified that the pajamas were neatly folded -- we don't know why they were there (along with Maggie's clean panties). There has been some speculation here that Alex may have placed them there (or taken them out to ultimately place them somewhere else) to make it appear that Maggie had been staying at Moselle, when in fact she had been in Edisto that day. JMO.

OK, thank you. I was getting confused because it seemed like folks here were talking like they were Maggie's clothes/damp towel.

Still confused about the pajamas. If he laid out the clothes like she was going to spend the night, he had to get them from somewhere....like her dresser there? Why would he have needed to lay them out like that (why would she have brought the pajamas to begin with) if she kept clothes there....

 

[Edvis]

I totally agree. They were living somewhat of a high life but in the boondocks of the low country of SC. Even Edisto is a quiet family oriented house…off beach… not a prestigious address. The home was not a beachfront villa in a more fashionable beach resort in SC. MM was not living the life her sister does, not moving in those circles, not owning that type of multiple fashionable real estate.

Yet, AM had a sometime million plus salary and generational wealth. And power. So what were they spending it on? MM enjoyed putting photos of the family at formal events on her FB…but every one is an invitation to something associated with her sisters family. They don’t seem to have a country club, yacht club life of their own; There is one picture of a private jet trip. There are no photos of exotic trips…yet she seems the type that would have wanted that known.

Nothing makes sense. I believe there is a much bigger story somewhere …hidden amd entangled behind omerta values that are protecting many others in AM’s orbit. AM will be a good capo…a good soldier…he will go down….quietly.

Many folks used to bury their money in jars and such around their land hehe and the AM's property is on the market I believe, metal detector and shovel in hand after taking ownership.