SC - Paul Murdaugh & mom Margaret Found Shot To Death - Alex Murdaugh Accused - Islandton #26

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I am trying to wrap my brain around the general “reasonable doubt” theories that depend on an apparent legal need to 1) put the actual gun in AM’s hands at the kennels in order to convict; 2) debunk the multiple shooter theory when there is no objective evidence of other shooters; 3) consider the possibility that MM and PM were still alive after they never unlocked their phones, read or answered a text, or were able to send a Snapchat; 4) among other red herrings.

It is undisputed that AM 1) arrives at the Moselle property on 6/7/21, after work, at 6:42 PM, and 2) does not ever leave the property, in a car, until 9:06 PM.

If we look at the timeline during the critical path, from 8:44 PM to 9:06 PM, there are only 3 linear paths to pressure test whether other killers are earthly possibilities. If a UFO is needed to move from one indisputable fact to another indisputable fact, the logic chain for that scenario is interrupted. This is not reasonable doubt; it’s factual impossibility or fantasy land.

If Defense offers “alternative facts” that are to rise to the level of “reasonable doubt” they have to coexist with the irrefutable facts in the 8:44-9:06 window and then connect back up to AM’s post 9:06 behavior and events without having to suspend reality.

#1: AM is at kennels at 8:44 PM.

I think AM’s physical location at the Kennels is an irrefutable fact, per Snapchat and witness corroboration.

The only way the jury, or an individual juror, can overlook this irrefutable fact is to deploy unsanctioned “jury nullification”, or aliens, to explain why 7 (ish?) close acquaintance-witnesses, under oath, would lie, or collectively mistake, the 3rd voice to be anyone other than AM.

So let’s assume for this scenario that rational jurors do not sidestep the fact as to AM’s whereabouts at 8:44 PM which places AM at the kennels/murder site at the exact time (within less than 5 minutes) of the murders.

What is the nature of the “reasonable doubt” that could cause a reasonable person to question or break the linkage between AM’s 8:44-killing-opportunity (unsuspecting targets at home playing with dogs), the victims near instant deaths at 8:49, and AM’s ability to distance himself from the murder scene by barreling down a deserted country road, undetected (except for Onstar - oops), in a black SUV, under cover of darkness, where he can lie and adjust how long he sat with his memory-challenged mom while she slept.

Where the jury agrees AM is at the kennel at 8:44 (because it defies logic that he is anywhere else), putting a particular gun in AM’s hand, and/or into evidence, doesn’t seem necessary to overcome the lack of evidence of other shooters who AM must have seen doing the crimes because he was there, unless they were invisible aliens. Lots of double negatives, but this is proving a negative.

#2: AM is at kennels at 8:44 PM but leaves kennels on foot before 8:49-9:00.

If a juror can’t ignore the undeniable, that voice #3 is AM, but nevertheless has unspecified doubts about AM’s culpability and/or the time of death, due to “fog”, what is the nature of the “reasonable doubt” that could cause a reasonable person to question or break the linkage between AM being on foot, in very close proximity to the murders at 8:44, and at a minimum, within earshot of the murders or worse, and making an instantaneous decision to run to his car up at the main house, and then drive to mom’s house at 9:06, without calling 911, being reasonably certain his family was in imminent peril, but also having time and wherewithal to text MM that he was going to check on his mom, and not her and PM (in case they aren’t dead and are reading texts), after he runs away from the 7 gunshot blasts he hears from where he last saw them alive.

Again - missing guns, mystery shooters aren’t reasonable doubt because he can’t not hear the gunshots in this scenario; you then cannot play out hearing the shots with AM’s post 9:06 behavior. Logic chain broken unless he temporarily lost his hearing until it was time to call people to set up alibi.

#3: AM was never at, or near the kennels, between 8:44 - 9:00, but was nevertheless on the property (napping) because his car was there, but he didn’t hear the gunshots because he was asleep or in a sound chamber.

I don’t see how this scenario even has legs because it has to get around both Snapchat scenarios (if it wasn’t AM he either saw murders and/or heard murders). If you think he was napping or not within eyesight or earshot, you have to resort to believing voice #3 is Santa.

This is how I hope the jury will process the “alternative facts”:

Let’s say Defense has a video reenactment of a person exiting the SUV at the kennels, and running to check the pulses of two slain bodies (and look at a cell phone and/or possibly try to roll a body over) in under 20 seconds. We could spend until the end of time running these 20 second sprints around a mock crime scene; testing how fast AM can run if he is size 2x or smaller, in various footwear …

#1 - Evidence that you could conceivably check the pulses under 20 seconds doesn’t create reasonable doubt as to his presence at the murder; if you have already accepted the evidence that he was at the murder, the pulse checking thing is just dangling out in thin air unrelated to anything and is just a distraction.

#2 - Taking pulses in under 20 seconds doesn’t make it more possible that you could not have heard the gunshots earlier and instead innocently drove to mom’s.

#3 - Taking pulses in under 20 seconds doesn’t mean voice #3 isn’t AM.
 
I’ve seen all of the previous ones and this one is more detailed with footage that I hadn’t seen before. Two people so far in disguise, a colleague and an employee.

What a hold on the community they had. They controlled everything. Bullying their way through.
All that hospital footage of AM , his dad and PM going up and down the halls trying to control the entire boat accident.
Frame Connor.
That family !!! Grrrr!!!

MOO
 
Someone awhile back stayed Buster had allergies so dogs couldn’t come inside house(s). Weird. So you get dogs that are “harmful” to your kid and keep them in kennels. Why not get a hypoallergenic dog.
I remember a rumor that the dogS were in house and TRIPPED the housekeeper down the stairs and she died.
 
Just from what i've seen so far on Low Country/CNN, I'd say ya, father killed Paul to avoid all the boat crash trial to come and consequences of that for himself. Financial and maybe 'helping his son out of it'. Disgussssting.
 
All that hospital footage of AM , his dad and PM going up and down the halls trying to control the entire boat accident.
Frame Connor.
That family !!! Grrrr!!!

MOO

He & GPaw went to each treatment room where the kids were being treated. Connor was in pain and the girl who’s hand was badly injured but that didn’t stop them.

All while they aren’t thinking about Mallory and that Anthony was devastated. And Paul was pulling his underwear off and trying to kiss the nurses. They gave depos.
 
Does anybody else think it’s strange that one of the first people AM calls is RG?
I think AM went to Paul after he killed everybody and picked up his phone because he suspected there might be something on there that incriminates him but he couldn’t get into it. I think he called RG for the same reason…to see what RG might have gotten from Paul.
 
I’ve been puzzled by that aspect also.
Annette mentioned Tasmanian devil like behavior, sounded more like uppers or long lines of coke snorting before his office visits
Opioids and benzodiazepines even with high tolerance don’t seem to mesh with his reported behavior

May depend on whether he has a dual diagnosis (an Axis I diagnosis). IME. IMO.

Also, there's the whole arc of coming off one's drugs and no assurance that there were no stimulants in the mix.

I agree it sounds like there were stimulants in the mix.

IMO.

Although one never knows. It's possible he has his own endogenous moodswings/uppers.
 
Although it is impossible to go through a decades long career and not make mistakes, in my opinion all you stated could still be orchestrated and deliberate. Trying to control how the witness answers, etc., they know what they are doing. As to the gargantuan mistakes of opening the door to previously excluded testimony, I have to wonder if that was not deliberate too for future appeals, ineffective counsel. These lawyers are too experienced to make this many major mistakes but anything is possible. MOO
BBM

My take?
There won't be any future Appeals at all.
None.
Zip.

Why? In my own opinion, this jury was not sequestered, thus someone or more will have been gotten to.

As you say orchestrated, deliberate taking cotrol, they know what they are doing.....

Again in my own personal opinion, they will find him not guilty, they will go after the criminal activity, and he will get out on bail....

From there he will wiggle his way out of the Criminal activity....
 
I’ve seen all of the previous ones and this one is more detailed with footage that I hadn’t seen before. Two people so far in disguise, a colleague and an employee.

What a hold on the community they had. They controlled everything. Bullying their way through.
This one on CNN (Low Country) is the same one that was on HBO Max. I think it premiered in November. But, it was very good. All the boating & aftermath footage was very compelling. You really see how those good ol’ Murdaughs operate.
 
BBM

My take?
There won't be any future Appeals at all.
None.
Zip.

Why? In my own opinion, this jury was not sequestered, thus someone or more will have been gotten to.

As you say orchestrated, deliberate taking cotrol, they know what they are doing.....

Again in my own personal opinion, they will find him not guilty, they will go after the criminal activity, and he will get out on bail....

From there he will wiggle his way out of the Criminal activity....
I was thinking hung jury. Scary. JMO.
 
I've corresponded with some lovely local reporters who I believe are true representatives of the people of SC-- Colleton County esp. That said, I think DH would be a complete and utter failure anywhere outside of his district. He's a courtroom bully because it's been allowed of him without consequence. In essence, he's been rewarded (i.e., hired and re-elected) for his behavior, and/or the old dog keeps getting treats for being a dick. JMO
Old dog's, some pass peacefully and with grace yet others seem friendly enough until the mind is corrupted by some "sickness" and cujo takes control. At times thing's must be put down or put away and thinking AM may want the cage over the ground. Must be since he couldn't muster up the berries at the roadside, just another distraction fire along with the grand illusion show we're taking in now.
 
I am trying to wrap my brain around the general “reasonable doubt” theories that depend on an apparent legal need to 1) put the actual gun in AM’s hands at the kennels in order to convict; 2) debunk the multiple shooter theory when there is no objective evidence of other shooters; 3) consider the possibility that MM and PM were still alive after they never unlocked their phones, read or answered a text, or were able to send a Snapchat; 4) among other red herrings.

It is undisputed that AM 1) arrives at the Moselle property on 6/7/21, after work, at 6:42 PM, and 2) does not ever leave the property, in a car, until 9:06 PM.

If we look at the timeline during the critical path, from 8:44 PM to 9:06 PM, there are only 3 linear paths to pressure test whether other killers are earthly possibilities. If a UFO is needed to move from one indisputable fact to another indisputable fact, the logic chain for that scenario is interrupted. This is not reasonable doubt; it’s factual impossibility or fantasy land.

If Defense offers “alternative facts” that are to rise to the level of “reasonable doubt” they have to coexist with the irrefutable facts in the 8:44-9:06 window and then connect back up to AM’s post 9:06 behavior and events without having to suspend reality.

#1: AM is at kennels at 8:44 PM.

I think AM’s physical location at the Kennels is an irrefutable fact, per Snapchat and witness corroboration.

The only way the jury, or an individual juror, can overlook this irrefutable fact is to deploy unsanctioned “jury nullification”, or aliens, to explain why 7 (ish?) close acquaintance-witnesses, under oath, would lie, or collectively mistake, the 3rd voice to be anyone other than AM.

So let’s assume for this scenario that rational jurors do not sidestep the fact as to AM’s whereabouts at 8:44 PM which places AM at the kennels/murder site at the exact time (within less than 5 minutes) of the murders.

What is the nature of the “reasonable doubt” that could cause a reasonable person to question or break the linkage between AM’s 8:44-killing-opportunity (unsuspecting targets at home playing with dogs), the victims near instant deaths at 8:49, and AM’s ability to distance himself from the murder scene by barreling down a deserted country road, undetected (except for Onstar - oops), in a black SUV, under cover of darkness, where he can lie and adjust how long he sat with his memory-challenged mom while she slept.

Where the jury agrees AM is at the kennel at 8:44 (because it defies logic that he is anywhere else), putting a particular gun in AM’s hand, and/or into evidence, doesn’t seem necessary to overcome the lack of evidence of other shooters who AM must have seen doing the crimes because he was there, unless they were invisible aliens. Lots of double negatives, but this is proving a negative.

#2: AM is at kennels at 8:44 PM but leaves kennels on foot before 8:49-9:00.

If a juror can’t ignore the undeniable, that voice #3 is AM, but nevertheless has unspecified doubts about AM’s culpability and/or the time of death, due to “fog”, what is the nature of the “reasonable doubt” that could cause a reasonable person to question or break the linkage between AM being on foot, in very close proximity to the murders at 8:44, and at a minimum, within earshot of the murders or worse, and making an instantaneous decision to run to his car up at the main house, and then drive to mom’s house at 9:06, without calling 911, being reasonably certain his family was in imminent peril, but also having time and wherewithal to text MM that he was going to check on his mom, and not her and PM (in case they aren’t dead and are reading texts), after he runs away from the 7 gunshot blasts he hears from where he last saw them alive.

Again - missing guns, mystery shooters aren’t reasonable doubt because he can’t not hear the gunshots in this scenario; you then cannot play out hearing the shots with AM’s post 9:06 behavior. Logic chain broken unless he temporarily lost his hearing until it was time to call people to set up alibi.

#3: AM was never at, or near the kennels, between 8:44 - 9:00, but was nevertheless on the property (napping) because his car was there, but he didn’t hear the gunshots because he was asleep or in a sound chamber.

I don’t see how this scenario even has legs because it has to get around both Snapchat scenarios (if it wasn’t AM he either saw murders and/or heard murders). If you think he was napping or not within eyesight or earshot, you have to resort to believing voice #3 is Santa.

This is how I hope the jury will process the “alternative facts”:

Let’s say Defense has a video reenactment of a person exiting the SUV at the kennels, and running to check the pulses of two slain bodies (and look at a cell phone and/or possibly try to roll a body over) in under 20 seconds. We could spend until the end of time running these 20 second sprints around a mock crime scene; testing how fast AM can run if he is size 2x or smaller, in various footwear …

#1 - Evidence that you could conceivably check the pulses under 20 seconds doesn’t create reasonable doubt as to his presence at the murder; if you have already accepted the evidence that he was at the murder, the pulse checking thing is just dangling out in thin air unrelated to anything and is just a distraction.

#2 - Taking pulses in under 20 seconds doesn’t make it more possible that you could not have heard the gunshots earlier and instead innocently drove to mom’s.

#3 - Taking pulses in under 20 seconds doesn’t mean voice #3 isn’t AM.
Things become clear when one looks through the prism at the right angle don't they. Now if the defense pulls out a diagram of a wormhole I'm putting my foil cap on.
 
I really wonder what Alex’s lawyers are thinking. Did he lie to them like he lied to the cops and everyone else? Did they actually believe he was not guilty when they started this case? IMO they are not very fond of him.
Agree!

I would love to get into defense heads this weekend, particularly JG and DH. Alec was their long-time friend and an officer of the court. He was DH's political supporter. JG hunted at Moselle (ref. jail conversation between Buster and Alec). Alec and his family considered themselves powerful and elite, as I suspect DH thinks of himself. The three were social and professional peers.

As friends and top defense attorneys, Alec hires DH and JG to defend Paul and his family in the boat accident suits. But months later there is a double homicide, possibly related to the boat case so their representation of Alec expands (probably because it's been said AM had already paid them millions in advance for the boat case).

Besides, there are no guns, there are no bloody clothes, there is no tangible evidence that Alec is involved and he has an alibi. No way, no how their congenial client, Mr. Personality and A Murdaugh could be guilty of this horrendous crime. The Alec Murdaugh DH and JG knew was a generous father and family man who also worshiped his wife. For 18 months, both DH and JG were Alec's positive public voice, they supported his alibi and defended him to press.

Then Alec's trial. It progresses ... four weeks of compelling testimony ... there really is "mountains of evidence." It appears beyond a reasonable doubt that their dear friend could have murdered his wife and son ... and they can't walk away. :eek::eek: They don't seem like the types that would accept or like family annihilators in their social circle.

MOO. MOO.
 
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Good evening, y'all!

Thought I'd bring up one the dog's name.
Finding out last week that one of the dogs is named Maggie did not go over well with me. Supposedly, the dog belonged to elder M? Not sure about that but nonetheless that was all I needed to hear. Told me a lot about the family’s dynamics, and not something that I would want to be part of.

moo
 
Thanks all for the heads up on the special this evening on this story. Caught the second episode. Starting the third now, 10:00-11:00 p.m. EST. But not so sure……. sort of seems to be an infomercial for opioid, family, etc. etc., and ….. well I’ll leave it there. MOO. And that second episode on that sad young gentlemen left in the road under conflicting circumstances, sure looks likes that needs some more eyes and minds looking into that story.IMO.

Edit…. Now I will add that about 15 minutes in it is getting a bit more meaty. And considerable detail. Yes we need all sides.
 
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Really don't think that women are respected in the M family. moo.

I got nosey about BM’s gf… additionally, BM and GF might (him definitely) testify this week.

She has a beautiful sweet smile. See link. You don't see that in court which is understandable. IMO, the gf is too young to be sh@t up like this (in AM words)!

The pictures (again see link) look nothing like her at trial…Did she do a 180 since trial? This can’t be a healthy situation for her… imo. Hope she can find the strength to leave. I know she’s a smart young lady.

Done venting...

 
Agree!

I would love to get into defense heads this weekend, particularly JG and DH. Alec was their long-time friend and an officer of the court. He was DH's political supporter. JG hunted at Moselle (ref. jail conversation between Buster and Alec). Alec and his family considered themselves powerful and elite, as I suspect DH thinks of himself. The three were social and professional peers.

As friends and top defense attorneys, Alec hires DH and JG to defend Paul and his family in the boat accident suits. But months later there is a double homicide, possibly related to the boat case so their representation of Alec expands (probably because it's been said AM had already paid them millions in advance for the boat case).

Besides, there are no guns, there are no bloody clothes, there is no tangible evidence that Alec is involved and he has an alibi. No way, no how their congenial client, Mr. Personality and A Murdaugh could be guilty of this horrendous crime. The Alec Murdaugh DH and JG knew was a generous father and family man who also worshiped his wife. For 18 months, both DH and JG were Alec's positive public voice, they supported his alibi and defended him to press.

Then Alec's trial. It progresses ... four weeks of compelling testimony ... there really is "mountains of evidence." It appears beyond a reasonable doubt that their dear friend could have murdered his wife and son ... and they can't walk away. :eek::eek:
If they all were really that close, what if DH and JG advised AM that they would protect and represent him if he “got rid of the problem himself” before the boat case went to trial? Maybe AM has confidential info on them, so they agreed to represent him to take the heat off other bigger fish?
 
Stranger things have happened. IMO, if AM decides to testify, he has decided that the jury is against him, and he can sway them in some way. I noticed on Friday that instead of just glaring at the jury members, he had started smiling when they entered. IIRC, this was also when he was furious over the judge not ruling in his favor for the directed verdict, but I could be wrong.

I'm not sure which behavior is the most menacing, AM glaring at them or smiling in a blind fury... This is just my observation.

JMO. moo
Yes all the mask AM wears to court still have the spooky effect.
 
Does anybody else think it’s strange that one of the first people AM calls is RG?
I think AM went to Paul after he killed everybody and picked up his phone because he suspected there might be something on there that incriminates him but he couldn’t get into it. I think he called RG for the same reason…to see what RG might have gotten from Paul.
Yes, absolutely! Similar to AM going to the hospital room following boat crash attempting to advise the survivors not to talk to investigators. AM always trying to control the narrative. Moo.
 
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