SC - Paul Murdaugh & mom Margaret Found Shot To Death - Alex Murdaugh Accused - Islandton #26

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

So how did it play out ???

Alex and Paul checked trees and sunflower fields in the late afternoon of June 7, likely using the ATVs. Later, they stopped at the kennels and Paul was briefly at the caretaker's house (where he previously lived with a friend). Does Alex's phone sync with Paul's phone timeline travelling to the house to meet Maggie between 7:30-8:15 pm, or do they travel separately? Did Alex have time to backtrack and place the rifles at the kennels at 8 PM?

Alex's goal was to leave the two rifles at the kennels for later. How did he do that?

Did they take the smaller ATV together from the kennel to the house - no room for guns?

Perhaps Alex and Paul walked from the house to the kennel at 8:30, Maggie took the small golf-cart ATV to the kennel a few minutes later (where Maggie got a tire dirt mark on her lower leg)? They were all at the kennels at 8:44.

It seems like Maggie and Alex were at the chicken/guinea pens minutes before Paul was shot (video 8:44 PM). Perhaps Maggie remained at the chicken pens while Alex helped with the hose, or got the guns. Maggie would have heard and seen the first and second shot. First instinct would be to run to Paul, second instinct would be to run away. She had a shot to the leg and has been described as being down on all fours when she was shot through her internal organs, perhaps crawling. The amount of anger that a charming lawyer might have had in the moment is astounding.

It seems like she was at the chicken pens and in clear sight of Alex when he shot Paul.

IIRC, AM’s phone was presumably left at the house from 8:05 til he returned to get it after the murders, no movement from his phone during this time period.
He could have hid the guns in the days prior, plenty of opportunity.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

That's surprising. Didn't the defence claim on Friday that they didn't have any more witnesses available, and apologized for asking the court to adjourn an hour early?

I thought they said that the next witness would be very lengthy, and did not want to start with him/her until they had a full day

 

[Luna20]

Denial? Love? Blood is thicker than water?

There has to be an element of embarrassment among his peers. It’s natural to want your family to be sane, especially at a younger impressionable age-Lol!

I recall how embarrassed class mates were decades ago if their parents were getting divorced. It’s much different now.

 

[bestill]

I’m curious about others’ impressions of Marian Proctor’s testimony. At first, I couldn’t tell whose “side” she was on. She seemed very neutral, possibly even pro-Alex. Then, when she talked about asking Alex whether Maggie had suffered, her demeanor changed. But she never came across, IMO, as angry with AM. If I believed someone murdered my family member, I’d be seething.

What did y’all make of her testimony? Did it seem like she was walking a fine line to you?

I’m with you. That was my feeling. I did consider if it had something to do with her wishing to respect and love Buster. She could have come down harder in my opinion but that is what made it more realistic. She no doubt has the intimate knowledge (sisterhood) of how much MM loved her children.

I thought she was tossed and wanted to support Maggie, the Murdaugh family and Buster but clearly disappointed and snowed by AM. She realized his true colors, lies and his role in this. Her husband had no use for AM - he saw the pain that he caused his wife, her family and his nephews. To me her husband is a protector and was disgusted by AM.

 

[SeesSeas]

What the literature tells us about the jury foreperson

As evidence and common sense suggest, forepersons have more impact on trial outcomes than the average juror (Devine, Clayton, Dunford, Seying & Pryce, 2001). For this reason, studying them has interested researchers for decades. This accumulated research knowledge reveals common foreperson...

www.thejuryexpert.com

What the literature tells us about the jury foreperson​

by Traci Feller from University of Washington
– November 1, 2010

Foreperson Selection Method

It is customary for a jury to choose their own foreperson however, some states allow the trial judge to select the foreperson as he or she chooses. These states include Maine, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Arizona. In Maryland, Massachusetts and Rhode Island such practice is actually required (Horwitz, 2005).
[...]
This means of selecting a foreperson is very debatable and because it is not the standard, it is not studied to a large degree.
[...]

LIVE FEED - 'Murdaugh Murders' Trial: Day Nineteen - FITSNews

News and notes from South Carolina's 'Trial of the Century.'

www.fitsnews.com

1:01 p.m. EST – Judge Newman has called for a lunch recess. He has appointed juror number 826 as the foreperson from this point forward. Court will resume at 2:15 p.m. EST.

 

[clearskies1]

So how did it play out ???

Alex and Paul checked trees and sunflower fields in the late afternoon of June 7, likely using the ATVs. Later, they stopped at the kennels and Paul was briefly at the caretaker's house (where he previously lived with a friend). Does Alex's phone sync with Paul's phone timeline travelling to the house to meet Maggie between 7:30-8:15 pm, or do they travel separately? Did Alex have time to backtrack and place the rifles at the kennels at 8 PM?

Alex's goal was to leave the two rifles at the kennels for later. How did he do that?

Did they take the smaller ATV together from the kennel to the house - no room for guns?

Perhaps Alex and Paul walked from the house to the kennel at 8:30, Maggie took the small golf-cart ATV to the kennel a few minutes later (where Maggie got a tire dirt mark on her lower leg)? They were all at the kennels at 8:44.

It seems like Maggie and Alex were at the chicken/guinea pens minutes before Paul was shot (video 8:44 PM). Perhaps Maggie remained at the chicken pens while Alex helped with the hose, or got the guns. Maggie would have heard and seen the first and second shot. First instinct would be to run to Paul, second instinct would be to run away. She had a shot to the leg and has been described as being down on all fours when she was shot through her internal organs, perhaps crawling. The amount of anger that a charming lawyer might have had in the moment is astounding.

It seems like she was at the chicken pens and in clear sight of Alex when he shot Paul.

Theory: They all drove to the kennels together in the "farm truck". Weapons were stashed in the back of that truck underneath something or were stashed ahead of time at the kennels. JMO.

 

[Luna20]

That's surprising. Didn't the defence claim on Friday that they didn't have any more witnesses available, and apologized for asking the court to adjourn an hour early?

They didn’t have any witnesses that weren’t going to be lengthy. That could be considered an advantage for the state, as the jury had 3 days to think about the powerful ending on Friday. But on the other hand they could have enjoyed the holiday without giving it a thought.

 

[Snoopster]

It took four generations to deteriorate to the point where the chosen son would shoot half his family to distract from financial crimes. It seems like the rule of morality became increasingly fluid, or distorted, over the generations. They had one set of rules for themselves, and they made and enforced a different set of rules for others.

Was Alex the chosen son? How does Randy fit into this?
Was Alex most like his father? (we saw his father in action at the hospital after the boating accident.) But then Randy's name cropped up as potentially intervening in the Stephen Smith situation.

I just don't know.
Thinking about this caused me to go back and look at that infamous Good Morning America interview with Randy and John Marvin just a short time after the murders. I believe those were real tears by the two of them. I wonder what they are thinking now.

GMA interview

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

As per CNN Buster is up first tomorrow. Also it was said to expect an accident reenactment set up.

What accident?

 

[otto]

IIRC, AM’s phone was presumably left at the house from 8:05 til he returned to get it after the murders, no movement from his phone during this time period.
He could have hid the guns in the days prior, plenty of opportunity.

I'm curious whether there's evidence that Paul and Alex travelled from the kennels to the house together between 7:30 and 8:00 AM, or whether they travelled separately. Did they meet at the house with their guns at 8 PM and Alex offered to put them away - putting him briefly back at the kennel between 8:02 and Maggie arriving around 8:17 PM?

He could have hidden the guns before Paul arrived, but Paul would have looked for the .300 blackout for the ATV ride.

 

[sunshineray]

I’m curious about others’ impressions of Marian Proctor’s testimony. At first, I couldn’t tell whose “side” she was on. She seemed very neutral, possibly even pro-Alex. Then, when she talked about asking Alex whether Maggie had suffered, her demeanor changed. But she never came across, IMO, as angry with AM. If I believed someone murdered my family member, I’d be seething.

What did y’all make of her testimony? Did it seem like she was walking a fine line to you?

I think she made very good points about his actions afterwards being very odd and not what she expected or understood. She was also, it seemed to me, a bit taken aback and confused by his statement that he thought the killers thought a long time about killing PM and MM.

I also think she made it perfectly clear that after the truth came out about the fake suicide, that really changed her opinion about her brother-in-law. If the prosecutor could have asked her more in-depth about that I think we would have gotten an earful. He couldn't do that within the parameters of what he could ask and how he could ask it.

I think there was probably much more to what MP could have added but hearsay and other objections would have curtail that information in front of the jury.

I do agree though, I don't think I'd have been able to stop the glares or the derision in my voice.

AJMO

 

[Snoopster]

My closing argument:
—said MM showed up to surprise him that night, but MP’s testimony says MM was asked to come reluctantly did
—only 19 seconds between AM’s car arriving at kennels and 911 call is contradictory to what he told 911 operator he did
—8:44pm video includes AM’s voice yet he said he wasn’t there
—tried to talk Shelley into lying for him about the time he spent at parent’s house
—cartridges found outside gun room match cartridges for bullets that killed MM
—he was a pill head living two lives and everything was crashing down. His family discovered addiction, his co-workers discovered his theft

Don't forget (among so many other things, I know) the missing 'Snapchat clothes' and the missing Blackout rifle.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

I'm curious whether there's evidence that Paul and Alex travelled from the kennels to the house together between 7:30 and 8:00 AM, or whether they travelled separately. Did they meet at the house with their guns at 8 PM and Alex offered to put them away - putting him briefly back at the kennel between 8:02 and Maggie arriving around 8:17 PM?

He could have hidden the guns before Paul arrived, but Paul would have looked for the .300 blackout for the ATV ride.

There are several post about the phone data that tracks the movement of each of them. Not sure why Paul would be looking for the 300 blackout or if he was looking for, he would not think that his father had it hidden down by the kennel somewhere, would not be an immediate issue of concern. Edited to add that the guns did not necessarily have to be hidden. I do not believe that either Maggie or Paul feared for their life. We live in a rural area on a ranch. My husband often has a gun on him. It’s not unusual or a concern for me.

 

[Derph]

Trying to understand this ...

On May 5, 2021, Paul and/or Maggie found a bag of green pills at Edisto Beach property. Maggie searched online to figure out what they were. She did not delete the search.

May 6, Paul texted Alex that Maggie found a bag of pills. He told Alex to contact him about it.

"On May 6, 2021, Paul Murdaugh sent his father, Alex, what appeared to be a difficult text message. Paul, 22, was letting his dad know that he was still at the family’s house in Edisto Beach, South Carolina, but that things were not OK.​

​

“I am still in EB because when you get here we have to talk,” Paul wrote. “Mom found several bags of pills in your computer bag.”​

What happened between May 5-26, and between May 26 and June 7? What texts and conversations were had in relation to pills? Maggie's sister knew that pills were a today problem. Paul and Alex must have talked, and we know it didn't change anything. The first time Maggie did a search, she didn't delete it. The second time, 2 weeks later, she did delete it. Why?

What is the story behind the drugs that Alex didn't want his family to know? I don't believe that he is an addict. I think that might be a cover story for getting caught faking a suicide, and it ties to the pills text from Paul. ... or was it just a collision of all his misdeeds simultaneously?

Two weeks after Maggie did the second pills search, she and Paul were dead with several angry gunshot wounds.

The more I keep thinking about this the more I'm convinced that drugs were the motive behind these murders. DO NOT get in between a junky and his drugs. I keep think that either MM or PM took those pills. If they destroyed those pills that causes significant problems for Alex.

Yes, there is a mountain of evidence concerning all the financial fraud and I do think that is another motive. The walls were coming down fast. But stick with me here.

If AM was in fact an addict and his stash of pills were taken. He's in a world of poop from a physical standpoint. I went into this in a previous post of mine some threads or pages back, but the short of it is he would potentially be facing life threatening withdrawal IF he was taking the amounts of drugs he says he was taking.

OR


If AM was an addict perhaps MM and PM confronted him and were threatening to leave him, or perhaps they gave him an ultimatum " Get help and go to rehab or we're leaving" or MM told him she was going to file for divorce and all of AM's skeletons were more than likely going to be exposed to everyone. There are a few scenarios there that could enrage someone. A divorce would make AM's money situation which was already spiraling out of control, significantly worse. All these factor could very easily make AM snap that night in a fit of rage.

There is another angle to this as well. IF he was dealing or distributing, he would potentially be missing out on a tremendous amount profit from selling drugs. And we know he desperately needs that money to pay back the law firm and any other debts he owes.

Now I know there are going to be people here who are going to say that he owed those drugs to someone and they are going to come looking for it. In my opinion it doesn't work that way. If he's a distributor, junkie's aren't going to kill their dealer. That's how they get their product. They will just go find their drugs from somewhere else. If he somehow owes someone $$$ there is no way to get money out of a dead man. They are going to want their money most definitely, but you don't kill the goose that's laying the golden pills.

You also don't go killing a prominent local attorney's family. That's a great way to get the the cops and feds involved. It brings a tremendous amount of heat down on the scene and the 'players' in that life. Also IF AM's family got killed and the rest of them were really in danger, AM would have cashed in all of his chips/favors/relationships with judges/police/lawyers etc and call in the National Guard to protect the rest of his family and get them into some kind of protection.

So that's just some thoughts to chew on as we go back to court tomorrow morning. See ya'll there.

 

[pizzaman12]

My closing argument:
—said MM showed up to surprise him that night, but MP’s testimony says MM was asked to come reluctantly did
—only 19 seconds between AM’s car arriving at kennels and 911 call is contradictory to what he told 911 operator he did
—8:44pm video includes AM’s voice yet he said he wasn’t there
—tried to talk Shelley into lying for him about the time he spent at parent’s house
—cartridges found outside gun room match cartridges for bullets that killed MM
—he was a pill head living two lives and everything was crashing down. His family discovered addiction, his co-workers discovered his theft

I like most but the cartridge part isn't necessarily factual in my opinion. Platforms like this are going to have similar (and that's all they've been able to conclude) markings. I drop different bolts in and out of multiple guns all the time. Not to mention the simple machining of the barrels, BCG and everything else. The gunsmith who testified builds tons and you could probable go down the road and get those same markings from others.

 

[sunshineray]

I was out of town since Thursday and have missed so much. Any thoughts on what will happen this week? Defense strong or not?

The first two witnesses they put on...it was embarrassing to watch...and enraging to see AM laughing heartily with everyone a one point.
IMO

 

[Snoopster]

I think he didn't use the ATV. I think the three of them drove from the house to the kennels together and Alec walked/ran back.

IMO that's why he struggled to answer the question of how Maggie and Paul.got down there. Because he didn't want to associate himself in any way with that ATV. He was ridiculously vague. Like they might each have taken rides on magic carpets. Needed to distance himself from how the two of them got there. Because there were three of them.

JMO

Wouldn't it have been nice if the prosecution had an exhibit that accounted for all of the vehicles on the property and where they were located when first responders arrived? I don't know what vehicles they had and I don't know where they all were. (Other than the Polaris side-by-side, which I understand was under the hangar awning near the kennels.)

 

[clearskies1]

I'm curious whether there's evidence that Paul and Alex travelled from the kennels to the house together between 7:30 and 8:00 AM, or whether they travelled separately. Did they meet at the house with their guns at 8 PM and Alex offered to put them away - putting him briefly back at the kennel between 8:02 and Maggie arriving around 8:17 PM?

He could have hidden the guns before Paul arrived, but Paul would have looked for the .300 blackout for the ATV ride.

I thought AM said in one of the interviews that he and Paul drove around in the black truck and the white truck while they were riding around before Maggie got home. I didn't know what he meant by that -- was he saying they rode in separate cars? Struck me as odd and I don't think LE followed up to clarify. Maybe I'm misremembering... JMO.

 

[sunshineray]

So how did it play out ???

Alex and Paul checked trees and sunflower fields in the late afternoon of June 7, likely using the ATVs. Later, they stopped at the kennels and Paul was briefly at the caretaker's house (where he previously lived with a friend). Does Alex's phone sync with Paul's phone timeline travelling to the house to meet Maggie between 7:30-8:15 pm, or do they travel separately? Did Alex have time to backtrack and place the rifles at the kennels at 8 PM?

Alex's goal was to leave the two rifles at the kennels for later. How did he do that?

Did they take the smaller ATV together from the kennel to the house - no room for guns?

Perhaps Alex and Paul walked from the house to the kennel at 8:30, Maggie took the small golf-cart ATV to the kennel a few minutes later (where Maggie got a tire dirt mark on her lower leg)? They were all at the kennels at 8:44.

It seems like Maggie and Alex were at the chicken/guinea pens minutes before Paul was shot (video 8:44 PM). Perhaps Maggie remained at the chicken pens while Alex helped with the hose, or got the guns. Maggie would have heard and seen the first and second shot. First instinct would be to run to Paul, second instinct would be to run away. She had a shot to the leg and has been described as being down on all fours when she was shot through her internal organs, perhaps crawling. The amount of anger that a charming lawyer might have had in the moment is astounding.

It seems like she was at the chicken pens and in clear sight of Alex when he shot Paul.

I think he had those rifles placed where he wanted them before either PM and MM arrived. He might have even had them stashed somewhere in the woods for days waiting on the opportunity. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

Was Alex the chosen son? How does Randy fit into this?
Was Alex most like his father? (we saw his father in action at the hospital after the boating accident.) But then Randy's name cropped up as potentially intervening in the Stephen Smith situation.

I just don't know.
Thinking about this caused me to go back and look at that infamous Good Morning America interview with Randy and John Marvin just a short time after the murders. I believe those were real tears by the two of them. I wonder what they are thinking now.

GMA interview

Maybe tears for PM and MM but I don't think for AM, I truly don't. The brothers had to have known AM was lying about taking/visiting his father to the hospital because JMM did that. And RM knew AM was lying about leaving the firm early that night because AM was still there when RM left at 6pm. It was just a circling of the wagons, IMO