Seaching for Anna - #2

[Dr. Doogie]

Doogie- Where are we in the search for Anna right now? Is there anything I can do or look up for you all?

The next major milestone that will probably occur will be the publication of the updated manuscript. Annasmom, Annasunc and I are currently settling on a means of getting a professionally produced book on the market. I believe that publication will lead to new information as the case becomes better known.

Still no luck with GB's identity? :banghead: No further information from MK's family?

Nothing beyond what has been posted. I believe that the possibilty of Brody having been raised in an orphanage is worthy of further investigation. I also am working on reinvestigating the possibility that Brody was an immigrant from Central Europe (such as Hungary).

I have not had any further contact with the Kukoda family. The last conversation we had ended with their promise that they were going to further question Margaret's sister about Brody and the boyfriend known as Russell. Since I have not heard from them, I assume that they have not had a chance to ask those questions yet. They have been so helpful and open, so I do not want to "pressure" them.

 

[InterestedNHelping]

At this time, none of my current leads have panned out, with the exception of a woman with the same birth date and the last name Waters, but I believe it is merely coincidence.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

At this time, none of my current leads have panned out, with the exception of a woman with the same birth date and the last name Waters, but I believe it is merely coincidence.

You may have shared this with me previously (I am notorious for getting promising emails, but getting distracted with something else, then forgetting the potentail lead), but could you share what have via PM? Thanks, INH.

 

[mfmangel1]

Poor Sherlock! What is the saying? No good deed goes unpunished...?
I am so sorry to hear this news.

Yes, Dr. Dougie, we all wish someone would contact GB's family! Immediately!

As GraceBlue has asked, is there anything else we can do at this point?

 

[mysteriew]

SherlockJr. you know what you do is right so don't let it get you down or slow you down. Keep doin' what you do so well.

 

[Gina_M]

Wow...hope everything calms down with this adoptee. She sounds like she has some issues she needs to deal with, and is targeting her anger in the wrong direction. Poor Sherlock and anyone else who is dealing with this!

I'm excited about the possibility of the manuscript getting published. I'm looking forward to seeing it in bookstores! I'll definitely buy a few copies and give them to friends and family.

 

[Annasmom]

Wow...hope everything calms down with this adoptee. She sounds like she has some issues she needs to deal with, and is targeting her anger in the wrong direction. Poor Sherlock and anyone else who is dealing with this!

I'm excited about the possibility of the manuscript getting published. I'm looking forward to seeing it in bookstores! I'll definitely buy a few copies and give them to friends and family.

Gina, I just watched the two videos on the CD and can't thank you enough. Everything about them is so direct, upbeat, not a word wasted, and the choice of music couldn't have been better. It was only "Here Comes the Sun" that kept me from crying through the first one!

 

[laini]

I'm excited about the possibility of the manuscript getting published. I'm looking forward to seeing it in bookstores! I'll definitely buy a few copies and give them to friends and family.

I am excited about this, too! I think it will open many new doors in the search. Can't wait to get one!

 

[Cubby]

What follows is a copy of an email from a friend in the UK who specializes in international child abduction, mostly parental cases, but this is what he found for us regarding GW' need to apply for a passport for Anna.



I've done some research on the passport issue and this is what I have got.

It was not until 1999 that passport law altered and required a two-parent consent for the issuance of a passport to a minor under the age of 14 (s236 Nance/Donovan Foreign Affairs Relations Act 1999 as amended) and was codifed in 22CFR51.

This case predates that by miles but Executive Order (EO)11295 of August 5, 1966 delegated passport authority to the Secretary of State so the answer to whether a passport was issued will be found within the Department of State.

In 1972, a minor child was able to travel upon the passport of the parent - there was no requirement for a minor to have a passport in their own right. I have not been able to find out what the requirements to add a child to a US parent passport would have been BUT the US Department of State will not reveal any information concerning a minor who has now achieved the age of majority on privacy grounds in any event.

The US has at no point implemented exit controls at the border, so anyone may exit the US and there is no record of US citizens leaving the country that is maintained by any US agency. There were no exit controls in 1972.

Unless more information is forthcoming with regard to who may have removed the child (and she would have had to be removed by an adult if going through a normal mode of exit to the US as opposed to be illicitly sneaked across the border) this line of enquiry is going to be difficult.

Lines of enquiry that may help include:

- issuance or addition of a child to a US passport has always required evidence of US citizenship or nationality - enquire as to whether a birth certificate and SSN number were applied for and by whom and particularly when - if this occurred close to the date of disappearance you may have a line of enquiry.
- popular out of US destinations for child abductors who are American include Canada, Panama, Costa Rica and Puerto Rica - a line of enquiry is to establish what entry records exist for these countries for arriving US citizens and to check those records.

Let me know if I can be of further assistance and I also have resources to locate people within the US.

Do we know if GW may have applied for a SSN number for Anna, if one has ever been issued in her name, or if - and this may have been answered - if a request has been made for her BC after or shortly before her disappearance and if so by whom?

 

[Annasmom]

In 1972, a minor child was able to travel upon the passport of the parent - there was no requirement for a minor to have a passport in their own right. I have not been able to find out what the requirements to add a child to a US parent passport would have been BUT the US Department of State will not reveal any information concerning a minor who has now achieved the age of majority on privacy grounds in any event.

Lines of enquiry that may help include:

- issuance or addition of a child to a US passport has always required evidence of US citizenship or nationality - enquire as to whether a birth certificate and SSN number were applied for and by whom and particularly when - if this occurred close to the date of disappearance you may have a line of enquiry.

Do we know if GW may have applied for a SSN number for Anna, if one has ever been issued in her name, or if - and this may have been answered - if a request has been made for her BC after or shortly before her disappearance and if so by whom?

Thank you, Cubby; this is valuable information which confirms what the NCMEC has told us. Of course GW wouldn't have had to prove citizenship, since he always had a valid passport. He would also have had a copy of Anna's birth certificate (in all likelihood) from the time it was issued, if he had planned to take her. When I asked for another copy of her birth certificate last yea, there was nothing which indicated that other copies had been issued. As far as we know, no SSN for Anna was ever applied for. Regarding the privacy issues on passport information, this is exactly what I ran into with the Passport office, and they will not give an inch.

 

[smile22]

what if you got the le helping you with the case to contact the passport agencys and see what they can get they cant say no to police

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Quite a while ago, we tossed around the possibility of there being a FBI file on George Waters because of his draft resistance activities. I discussed this issue with the PI that we have worked with in the past (he has worked for the defense teams of many "radicals" and is familiar with the intricacies of a FOIA request). His recommendation was that the amount of paperwork and heartache involved in obtaining a file was not worth whatever value that can be gotten out of a file.

That being said, if there is a file on Waters and he travelled outside of the US in early 1973, it would undoubtedly have been noted in his files. Likewise, any travelling companions (Anna? Brody?) that he would have had would also be noted. It is exactly this sort of information that the FBI/CIA/NSA would be keeping tabs on of a "draft dodger". (I guess Nixon's paranoia may have served some purpose, after all. LOL!)

I wonder if, in our case, an FOIA request would actually be worth the efforts?

 

[InterestedNHelping]

I always felt that our rights were private in this country, and never felt the gov't had the right to do what they do, in the case of private citizens. However, you have the possibility of extremely valuable info, that could narrow down this search, and it would be worth going after, if all it says is where he went and when. I say, go for it, if it is even possible to get.
After all, their paperwork is probably less than the BFH, LOL!

 

[InterestedNHelping]

Maybe they have a file on Brody, who could be named in Waters file under a different name...can they give us that too? Heck, if you go for it, might as well go for it all!

 

[InterestedNHelping]

I just ran across a database, and was wondering if someone could tell me what year Waters went to court as a draft dodger, or if he actually had to go to court? I want to cross reference info on it

 

[Dr. Doogie]

I just ran across a database, and was wondering if someone could tell me what year Waters went to court as a draft dodger, or if he actually had to go to court? I want to cross reference info on it

He never went to court. He had applied for conciencous objector status, which he eventually received after several rounds of rejection. He had many hearings, but they were with the draft board. However, during this period, his case had stirred up quite a bit of interest in certain circles - money was raised for his defense and many of his and Annasmom's acquaintances rallied to their cause. Because of this "noteriety", I believe it possible and quite likely that there would have been a file on him as someone who "needed watching".

 

[Cubby]

Quite a while ago, we tossed around the possibility of there being a FBI file on George Waters because of his draft resistance activities. I discussed this issue with the PI that we have worked with in the past (he has worked for the defense teams of many "radicals" and is familiar with the intricacies of a FOIA request). His recommendation was that the amount of paperwork and heartache involved in obtaining a file was not worth whatever value that can be gotten out of a file.

That being said, if there is a file on Waters and he travelled outside of the US in early 1973, it would undoubtedly have been noted in his files. Likewise, any travelling companions (Anna? Brody?) that he would have had would also be noted. It is exactly this sort of information that the FBI/CIA/NSA would be keeping tabs on of a "draft dodger". (I guess Nixon's paranoia may have served some purpose, after all. LOL!)

I wonder if, in our case, an FOIA request would actually be worth the efforts?

I say go for it. I tossed around the idea my friend suggested of searching points of entry for US citizens for whatever countries GW had interested in visiting ( ie. Italy or Greece) based on the time frame he vacationed shortly after Anna's disappearance. IF I knew how to find something like that I would........ I think your idea Doogie, would give us some direction on whether or not that is a feasible idea, and I believe it would be worth the effort.

I don't believe we should leave any stone unturned.

 

[InterestedNHelping]

(This is from the State Dept...the law on passports for your minor child, yourself, or the deceased party...)

Obtain Copies of Passport Records



There are two options for obtaining copies of your passport records:

1. Passport Records for Issuances 1925 – Present
   1. Requesting Your Own Record
      Passport Services maintains United States passport records for passports issued from 1925 to the present. These records normally consist of applications for United States passports and supporting evidence of United States citizenship, and are protected by the Privacy Act of 1974, (5 USC 552(a)). Passport records do not include evidence of travel such as entrance/exit stamps, visas, residence permits, etc., since this information is entered into the passport book after it is issue The Privacy Act allows you to obtain copies of records in your own name and the records of your minor children. To request these records, please submit a typed or clearly printed NOTARIZED request that provides
      1. Your full name at birth and any subsequent name changes and/or the full name of your minor child or children, if you are requesting their records;
      2. Your date and place of birth and/or those of your minor child or children;
      3. Your current mailing address;
      4. Your current daytime telephone number;
      5. Your current e-mail address, if available;
      6. Your reason for the request;
      7. The dates or estimated dates your passports were issued;
      8. Your passport numbers or any other information that will help us locate your records; and
      9. A copy of requestor's valid photo identification
      A search for your passport record is free with your notarized request. However, there is a $60.00 search fee for each individual, other than yourself and your minor children, for whom a record search is requested. A check or money order made payable to “Department of State" must be included with your request.
   2. Certified Passport Records
      Certified copies of passport records may be requested. If you would like a certified copy of a passport record, the certification fee is $30.00 for the first certified copy of an individual's record and $20.00 for each additional authenticated copy of that record. Checks or money orders should be made payable to “Department of State".
   3. Third-Party Requests
      Third party requests must include one of the following:
      1. Notarized consent from the owner of the passport records,
      2. Proof of guardianship,
      3. Death certificate, or
      4. Court order signed by a judge of competent jurisdiction requesting the Department of State to release passport records.
      The only exception to this requirement is when the owner of the passport records was born 100 years or more ago. Your third party request does not have to be notarized but should include the information described in the section above that covers requesting your own record and a $60.00 search fee for each individual for whom a record search is requested. Checks or money orders should be made payable to “Department of State".
   4. Mailing Address
      All requests for passport records issued from 1925 to present should be mailed to:
      Department of State
      Passport Services
      Research and Liaison Section
      Room 500
      1111 19th Street, N.W.
      Washington, DC 20524-1705 (202) 955-0447

 

[InterestedNHelping]

I believe a death certificate on GW would be sufficient, and a birth cert on Anna would be too...have you gone this route under their guidelines? I know they gave you troubles in the past, but this seems like a mail-in, pretty straight ruled thing...hope it helps!

 

[InterestedNHelping]

ps...perhaps you can get a copy of Brodys death cert, and do the same thing with it..