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Hi, I just read a post from a local on a forum I had never been to before. He said there are several abandoned houses in McCleary, and 2 of them are on Main St.

That is not a really long street, and I'm wondering if these houses were searched by LE.

Can any local from McCleary tell us where those houses are, and if they are close at all to Libby's house in the 200 block? Also, what is the name of the bar across the street from Libby's? Ta
 
Scandi, I believe the only bar in McCleary is Rounders. It's on Simpson, next to the Gordons Grocery not across the street from T and L's house on Main.

I don't know anything about what LE has searched and what they haven't so I can't help you there. Sorry.
 
Scandi, I believe the only bar in McCleary is Rounders. It's on Simpson, next to the Gordons Grocery not across the street from T and L's house on Main.

I don't know anything about what LE has searched and what they haven't so I can't help you there. Sorry.

Thanks Jennifer, I get so frustrated. Here it is almost the day before Thanksgiving and Lindsey is still not found. LE believes she knew this person who took her. Someone in Lindsey's small world knows exactly where she is tonight IMO. And I just have to believe someone else noticed something, or heard something relevant about either the taking or possible disposal of her body if she is gone from this life.

It is a real stretch for me to think she is off in Spain,North Africa or the Middle East somewhere, sold!
 
I'm right there with you Scandi.

It's all very frustrating.
 
Hi, I just read a post from a local on a forum I had never been to before. He said there are several abandoned houses in McCleary, and 2 of them are on Main St.

That is not a really long street, and I'm wondering if these houses were searched by LE.

Can any local from McCleary tell us where those houses are, and if they are close at all to Libby's house in the 200 block? Also, what is the name of the bar across the street from Libby's? Ta

They may be talking about what used to be the Next Door Cafe (I believe). It was a restaurant and lounge that is across from the shell station and next door to the liquour store. It's been empty and boarded up for quite a while now. I don't know about any abandoned houses in town itself, but I know of several within a few miles of town. There are quite a few for rent and for sale signs up again though.
 
I'm fairly new to WS and just checking to see how the search is coming for Lindsey. I'm sure the ground searches must be really difficult with the terrain and thick growth. My cousin lived in Sequim for years and I'd visit and spend time w/her exploring Olympic Park and the rain forest. It's absolutely beautiful country but can't imagine how hard it has to be to search for clues to her disappearance.

Maybe the People cover will bring in some more volunteers for the search. Are the local radio stations still talking about the searches and asking for help out there? How about a plea to any organizations or clubs in the area? I'm sure you've done all of that but just trying to think of how to get some help before the weather gets just awful for you. I'm in Michigan and can't help except to say my thoughts and prayers are with you all. I wish I were closer, I'd be there helping in any way I could. Please keep the faith and know many of us are thinking of Lindsey and praying she finds her way home soon. :praying:

~Lu
 
I'm fairly new to WS and just checking to see how the search is coming for Lindsey. I'm sure the ground searches must be really difficult with the terrain and thick growth. My cousin lived in Sequim for years and I'd visit and spend time w/her exploring Olympic Park and the rain forest. It's absolutely beautiful country but can't imagine how hard it has to be to search for clues to her disappearance.

Maybe the People cover will bring in some more volunteers for the search. Are the local radio stations still talking about the searches and asking for help out there? How about a plea to any organizations or clubs in the area? I'm sure you've done all of that but just trying to think of how to get some help before the weather gets just awful for you. I'm in Michigan and can't help except to say my thoughts and prayers are with you all. I wish I were closer, I'd be there helping in any way I could. Please keep the faith and know many of us are thinking of Lindsey and praying she finds her way home soon. :praying:

~Lu

Hi LookyLu, Thanks for your post. It reminded me of a note I made last night while watching HLN.

The TH said often when a child goes missing in a small town they don't usually have the resources to prioritize the case or the knowledge on how to go about it.

I think Lindsey's case is a perfect example of this. McCleary was stunned. And even tho the detectives/investigators might be among the finest one could ever find, it wasn't the usual crime they deal with ~ drugs, SO activity, murder and rape is their normal type case IMO. Thanks to the Klaas Foundation and the LRC becoming involved and educating community members on what to do and how, and to the FBI bringing in their expertise on locating missing children, Lindsey's case was kept in front of the public eye.

I don't know why the LRC stepped out of the case - maybe they simply direct the community at first with setting up accounts, I don't know.

I just know I pray every day that this will be it. We will learn that LE had a bead on what happened all along and it is just a matter of putting the pieces of the puzzle together to solve the case and nail those responsible for the crimes they commited. xox
 
LRC didn't "step out of the case". They are still available to help if needed. We are in contact with them via phone or email. And if for some reason they need to come back they will if it's possible.

Remember airfare, hotels, food, rental cars etc all cost money. What they do isn't cheap. :)
 
I understand what you're saying about small towns. I raised my kids in a very small town and they're wonderful and magical in so many ways.

I'm sure McCleary was blindsided by this as any small community would be.
Everyone knows everyone in those towns and they've got to be hurting that this has happened to one of their own.

I pray this is resolved soon and she's found and brought home. And I pray for her family as well as the wonderful locals who have worked so diligently to find Lindsey or some small clue to her whereabouts.

Just know that there are many of us who can't be there with you, but we're there in spirit and we're sending positive thoughts and energy your way.

I'm glad to hear LRC is still available to help! God bless them and all they do!
~Lu
 
Scandi, I hope I can answer your questions thoroughly.

When someone comes in to volunteer to search they start by registering and getting a search vest, after we have enough people to send out on a search (areas are mapped by our "map specialist" using a method learned from Brad Dennis) we assemble them in the "briefing" room with the briefer, they are instructed on what they are looking for and how to handle it if they find something (whether it be a random bottle or a couple of bones). If they stumble upon what they feel is a crime scene or something they feel needs to be checked out right that minute they are given a number to call. They call and talk to a member of the core team. We instruct them on what to do and we call the LE to go with us/meet us there to check it out. Some times we send someone from the core team to go and check before calling the LE. But LE is involved in the searches if and when we call them.
Once a search area is complete the searchers return to the center and go into what is called the "debriefing" room. A "debriefer" then takes the notes from the team (everyone tells the debriefer what they saw) writes the report, everyone signs off on it, everyone is thanked for their time and they either go back out on another search or they leave.

At the end of the weekend all of the reports are turned into the LE for them to read.

Hope that helps clear up some of your questions.

What's concerning IMO is that if any evidence is discovered during one of these searches that it potentially has a very high risk of being kept out a trial. Couldn't a defense attorney claim "evidence tampering" due to a conflict of interest sorta speak b/c some of the very last people to see Lindsey alive, who haven't been officially ruled out by LE, took part in these searches? Couldn't that same attorney dispute any information obtained from these searches as non credible b/c it was done by inexperienced persons? How does the decision of what is credible and what isn't made? I'm not suggesting all searches be stopped just that for legal purposes that it may need to be run by someone outside the community who has no local ties to friends or the victim's family. It would be tragic for an important piece of evidence kept out of the court room.

Novice Seeker
 
What's concerning IMO is that if any evidence is discovered during one of these searches that it potentially has a very high risk of being kept out a trial. Couldn't a defense attorney claim "evidence tampering" due to a conflict of interest sorta speak b/c some of the very last people to see Lindsey alive, who haven't been officially ruled out by LE, took part in these searches? Couldn't that same attorney dispute any information obtained from these searches as non credible b/c it was done by inexperienced persons? How does the decision of what is credible and what isn't made? I'm not suggesting all searches be stopped just that for legal purposes that it may need to be run by someone outside the community who has no local ties to friends or the victim's family. It would be tragic for an important piece of evidence kept out of the court room.

Novice Seeker

Hi NS, It is amazing when one learns how many people in this case are either related or inter-related by marriage!

But if say a searcher's sister-in-law was told info by her child that his friends sister said his mother was told _____, I would think a defense attny would be able to get it thrown out. Unless they had proof the searcher had been informed. Not sure. But the type of relationships I mention go thruout several of the families we are getting to know that have someone close to the case. ETA: Probably just like in any small town. xox
 
What's concerning IMO is that if any evidence is discovered during one of these searches that it potentially has a very high risk of being kept out a trial. Couldn't a defense attorney claim "evidence tampering" due to a conflict of interest sorta speak b/c some of the very last people to see Lindsey alive, who haven't been officially ruled out by LE, took part in these searches? Couldn't that same attorney dispute any information obtained from these searches as non credible b/c it was done by inexperienced persons? How does the decision of what is credible and what isn't made? I'm not suggesting all searches be stopped just that for legal purposes that it may need to be run by someone outside the community who has no local ties to friends or the victim's family. It would be tragic for an important piece of evidence kept out of the court room.

Novice Seeker

As I explained in the post you quoted.. if potential evidence is found we contact the police.
I am not an attorney nor do I pretend to know how to answer your questions. Maybe there is a lawyer on the board that can answer them.
 
Hi NS, It is amazing when one learns how many people in this case are either related or inter-related by marriage!

But if say a searcher's sister-in-law was told info by her child that his friends sister said his mother was told _____, I would think a defense attny would be able to get it thrown out. Unless they had proof the searcher had been informed. Not sure. But the type of relationships I mention go thruout several of the families we are getting to know that have someone close to the case. xox

That's one of the downfalls when you are talking about a small town like McCleary. Six degrees of separation? Isn't that what they call it?

If everyone "related" to someone who might know someone who heard a rumor didn't help.. then there would be even less volunteers searching.

I'm sure that's not something you want to see happen Scandi. Right?
 
That's one of the downfalls when you are talking about a small town like McCleary. Six degrees of separation? Isn't that what they call it?

If everyone "related" to someone who might know someone who heard a rumor didn't help.. then there would be even less volunteers searching.

I'm sure that's not something you want to see happen Scandi. Right?

I agree which is why I added an ETA to my post. lol I want Lindsey found! xox
 
As I explained in the post you quoted.. if potential evidence is found we contact the police.
I am not an attorney nor do I pretend to know how to answer your questions. Maybe there is a lawyer on the board that can answer them.


Hopefully an attorney can shed some light on this. As to the search, are any of the searchers directly involved in the events that occured the evening Lindsey disappeared, such as the mom, who as far as anyone knows was the last person to see Lindsey?

Is LRC continuing to be a resource for the search group to provide guidance or direction? For example, who determines what is evidence or not that's found at the scene? Is there a protocol for collecting the evidence from the scene? When is LE contacted, after the searcher collects the item and brought back to the center or do they become involved the moment something is found at the scene? Most cases if there is a piece of evidence more than likely further evidence is nearby which could be missed.

However, let me clarify this before anyone starts throwing the rotten tomatoes at me, I support those who volunteer their time and heart to search for a missing loved one. I just worry that any form of less than the standard of sincere and impartial effort of search group such as TES could be tarnished b/c of a search effort that was compromised.
Novice Seeker
 
Nothing is ever touched by the volunteers nor brought back to the search center.

As I stated.. that is all handled by the LE. They determine what needs further follow up. Not the search center.
 
Nothing is ever touched by the volunteers nor brought back to the search center.

As I stated.. that is all handled by the LE. They determine what needs further follow up. Not the search center.



Ok, now I'm even more confused about what is involved during a search. How is a search "group" set up? For instance, searchers go out searching but how do they know what to recognize as evidence? Several crimes I've followed included pieces of evidence that I would have never suspected to be connected to the crime and wonder how LE knew that whatever was actually a clue or evidence. If someone hasn't been trained to recognize what is important isn't there a high risk of it being overlooked?

Outside of collecting evidence, who is allowed to participate in the search? What are LRC's thoughts about individuals participating in a search who LE have interviewed and not officially ruled not as a suspect? Does this search group include adults who were the last ones to see Lindsey? We all want justice for Lindsey but it's concerning that this could open a door for the defense and the suspect walk. That would be a grave injustice for this little girl.

Novice Seeker
 
Id like to comment on this one... our searches consist of VOLUNTEERS. if they are trained WONDERFUL! if not, thats ok! we have a list of items to look for including description of her clothing and then the typical stuff such as tape, rope etc. you woudl be shocked at how much tape there is in mccleary! we try to give our searchers as much info as we can in what to look for. they are also equipped with the center phone number as a contact if there are ANY questions.

as for who can search. everyone must present a valid Id and fill out paperwork. they are submitting to potential background checks. Now, obviously we havent had to deal with 'poi's" wanting to help. they tend to stay pretty far away from the searches themselves. Any suspicion is noted and passed to LE.

The group is volunteers. we cant pick and choose who comes to help. we can however make sure their present background has nothing potentially harmful to the case. In the ideal situation, we would have so many searchers we could choose who to send where but these days we are lucky to get much ground covered at all because we arent getting the turnout we need.
 
When I first came to McCleary and talked with MB and KK, I let them know who I was and what I had been trained to do. Now, I am not an expert but when one has a missing child family member, you learn real fast on the do's and dont's of searching.

MB does not go out on searches. I am sure you can understand that if she was out searching and God forbid she was to find her daughter not alive, this would not only be the worst thing a parent could run across, but what parent would want that image of their child in their mind forever? It is hard enough for a parent of a missing child to constantly have the horrible images that they picture their child going through on a daily basis. When I was down in CA for 4 months looking for my niece, all I could think about was what would I do if I found her. So I am sure everyone can understand why it is not good for MB to be out searching.

'That being said when we (LRC- Klass Kids) first got to McCleary and set up a weekend of searching, we start right away teaching people the do's and dont's of searching. We tell people that we need volunteers in the office who would be called a Core Group. Once people come in to search and they start talking about why they are there and what they think they can do best, we start our training of the Core Group while others are training the volunteer searchers.

The first couple of days of searching the searchers are trained mostly by Brad (Klass Kids) and LRC. The core team that is put together is not always the ones that continue through months of searching, but they are trained well enough to train the next person that steps up and wants to learn and be trained in all areas.

The areas that the Core Team is trained is the following:

THE CORE TEAM

1. We have a top person who is the Director and this person is trained in all areas of running a search center. Either this person has been there and done that or is trained by top people on how to run the center.

2. Then we have several different places that we put people. Anywhere from Registration to Briefing and Debriefing.

3. Each trained core member knows most of the areas of the center and how to do the job they are asked to do.

4. SEARCH VOLUNTEERS

5. Before any volunteer goes out to search they are trained by members of the core team on what to do and what not to do. Example of this would be (never pick anything up or bring anything back to the center.) They are allowed to use sticks and gloved hands if they are trying to open say a refrigerator door, or pull something up that has been buried by leaves dirt ect. Or if a bag has a smell they can use a stick or gloved hand to tear it open and look but that is it. They are not allowed to move it or disturb it other than looking to see what it is. If they are positive they found something of importance such as (a shoe, Childs clothing ect.) they are to call the center right away and talk to the Director. Each team is given a bag of stuff before they leave the center to go on their search such as ( marking tape, index cards pen ect.) Each team has a team leader who makes the call, and keeps the team together. They then flag the area with marking tape, write on the index card what they found and number it.

6. When the Director gets there he or she will check the area and if need be contact LE. The Director is someone who knows if LE should be called right away or not. Most Core members at this point would know to call LE right away or tag it and document it.

7. The volunteers are told to look for child clothing, shoes, child *advertiser censored* of any kind. ect. We do not tell them everything because we do not want them to make a decision on whether they should call LE or not. If a Childs pants or shoes are found we want to look at it. The reason for this is because many things are found out in the woods. LE would not be able to do their job looking for Lindsey if every volunteer called them to come and look at a pair of pants or a shirt. That is why we want them to call the center and let the Director make that decision.

8. If they were to find Lindsey they are instructed to call 911 first and then to call the center to get the Director out there.

9. WHO IS ALLOWED TO SEARCH

And the answer to the question of who is allowed to search!

We try to discourage extended family members for the most part but we cannot stop them from searching either. We are not in a position to tell a family member they cannot search for their loved ones. And that is most likely the same for any family who has a missing one anywhere in the country, not just at the Lindsey Baum Search Center. It's absurd to think that a family member won't try and go searching, whether on their own or with a group. That is their right.



LE gets a copy of every search we do, along with Briefing and Debriefing paperwork. They have all of the team members and copies of ID's. They are aware who is searching and where we have searched, what was found and what was tagged. They may choose to follow up, or not. It's up to LE.




I hope this answers most of your questions? And please feel free to ask more questions if you wish. I want to make sure everyone here is aware of how the searches get started and how people are trained.



On a Mission

Director of the Lindsey Baum Search Center
 
Onamission ... Does LE ever acknowledge your briefing/debriefing paperwork or have they ever contacted you to clarify something in the report or ask questions? Thx.
 

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