Search Warrants for MR's house and vehicles

[Bayou Mistress]

If there are pages missing which imo there are, I don't see how any of us can just assume that the information on those pages is unimportant.

My dd is a pathological liar and from a very young age she learned to tell part of a story, leaving out the portions that would be incriminating to herself. Therefore I learned that the pieces that were missing actually held the key to ALL that WAS PERTINENT. I would tell her there is no point in telling me any of it if she wasn't going to tell me ALL of it.

That is the way I feel with this -- partial information is worthless information. MOO

I understand your point of view, but complete or incomplete (missing a page) does not make me wish I did not see the four other pages. Perhaps Salem can procure the absent page 2 of the vehicle warrant.

 

[Emma Ems]

This missing page as if you view where the cut off in the vehicle SW is the listing grounds for the search warrant according to Rule 41(b) of the Colorado Rules of Criminal procedure, it's a generic statement they seem to put at the end of every search warrant and since it's included for the house it would look exactly the same except maybe a different date and time of signature. There is nothing pertinent missing, IMO, except that it may have been signed on a different date than the house's search warrant. The date was probably the 29th on that one, since it couldn't have been on the 28th since the vehicle warrant was not drawn up until the 29th.

 

[Lordeebee]

I understand your point of view, but complete or incomplete (missing a page) does not make me wish I did not see the four other pages. Perhaps Salem can procure the absent page 2 of the vehicle warrant.

I would be much more interested in the additional page(s) of the seized items list. Can I prove there are more pages? nope. But I think Coldhands and Ghostwheel made a great case that there probably are.

 

[ColdHands]

I would be much more interested in the additional page(s) of the seized items list. Can I prove there are more pages? nope. But I think Coldhands and Ghostwheel made a great case that there probably are.

If I had access to the source of these documents, which I do not, I'd ask if they'd be willing to retake the picture of the seized items receipt, showing the page numbers in full. That would be all it would take to put this discussion to bed - if there were no other pages.

There's a post on page 1 of this thread being held for Tricia - was she planning to make a comment on these documents?

 

[Emma Ems]

I would be much more interested in the additional page(s) of the seized items list. Can I prove there are more pages? nope. But I think Coldhands and Ghostwheel made a great case that there probably are.

In looking at the information Cold Hands posted, the samples they posted showed that the pages were not signed except after completion of the receipt, on the very last page. A lot of times, even if there is only one page, it will be specified at the top like this Page 1 of 1. The fact that there is a signature on that page tells me the list is complete, though you are free to believe as you wish. Though I wonder why people think there are more things than this. I do not find it at all odd the list is a short as it is.

 

[Emma Ems]

I do imagine there may be other things taken, or to have been freely given by MR prior to this particular search, but as this list pertains specifically to things 'seized' during the execution of this SW, they would not be on this list.

 

[Lordeebee]

In looking at the information Cold Hands posted, the samples they posted showed that the pages were not signed except after completion of the receipt, on the very last page. A lot of times, even if there is only one page, it will be specified at the top like this Page 1 of 1. The fact that there is a signature on that page tells me the list is complete, though you are free to believe as you wish. Though I wonder why people think there are more things than this. I do not find it at all odd the list is a short as it is.

This is a link to another 5-page FD-597 Receipt of Property populated form. Please note that there is a signature on every page of this document.
In addition, in search for other examples, I find it is very rare to find a one page document.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/134113508/Search-Warrant-1690-North-Paris-Street-10

 

[DylansMom34]

It seems to me that I recall reading and seeing video of numerous searchers conducting the search of the house for many hours. Seems there would be more than one page.

I think there would be similar seizure lists for the trucks.

 

[caffeinejean]

It seems to me that I recall reading and seeing video of numerous searchers conducting the search of the house for many hours. Seems there would be more than one page.

I think there would be similar seizure lists for the trucks.

“The investigation of Dylan’s disappearance is ongoing,” Bender said. “We won’t be revealing any list of what we find until it’s over.” (from 11/29/2012)

http://durangoherald.com/article/20121129/NEWS01/121129570/-1/s

Attached is a reminder article and video, from the Durango Herald, of the numerous searchers involved and the meticulous nature of the search. Including the home, outbuildings, travel trailer, and MR's trucks being towed.

I definitely believe this is not an all inclusive list of documents received by MR.
Again, unless these warrants are released officially by LE or MSM, I don't see much value or "transparency". The release of this info appears to me to have been done haphazardly and could be hinderance to the investigation. Where is MR's statement about why we are being shown this information anyway (albeit incomplete)? JMO

 

[Emma Ems]

[/B]

This is a link to another 5-page FD-597 Receipt of Property populated form. Please note that there is a signature on every page of this document.
In addition, in search for other examples, I find it is very rare to find a one page document.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/134113508/Search-Warrant-1690-North-Paris-Street-10

I think we could play spot the differences in every form we look at, two examples showing two different things. On the ones you provided I noticed that the list goes all the way down the length of the page with ONLY one line for a signature which look nothing like the form from MR's. My opinion was that if there were more items they too would expand all the way down the length of the page as does in this case, but it's pretty obvious to me that the full length of the page was not used, like in the examples provided. I think it's clear by this point in time, that many of us see this differently and maybe it is best to agree to disagree and move on.

 

[Lordeebee]

I don't know anything about the completeness of these documents as called out in other posts but I do agree with this post. If there was significant evidence of injury to Dylan found in any of the searches, that - coupled with the observed behavior from the father - would have resulted in an arrest IMO. Also IMO, this indicates to me that nothing significant was found in the searches and increases the likelihood that Dylan did indeed walk out the door and meet foul play away from the house. IMO LE did find enough evidence to assert that Dylan made it to the house but not enough to determine when or how he left or what happened when he did. I think there's a strong possibility that LE does not know what happened.:twocents:

Really? I can think of many reasons that LE would not make an arrest at this time, even if they have sufficient evidence to arrest. Here's a couple. Let's say they have sufficient evidence of parental kidnapping but only suspect (not quite enough evidence yet) that Dylan was harmed. I believe they would wait until they could arrest him on the larger charge (first degree kidnapping) and this might not be impossible until Dylan is found. Another might be that if there is an arrest now, they might never find out where Dylan is - perhaps chances are increased of finding Dylan if MR continues to talk and walk.

 

[AnotherSetOfEyes]

I'm going to show my ignorance here, since I've never seen a search warrant. But why does the search warrant say LaPlata County and the seizure list say FBI? Wasn't the CBI involved as well? Would they all act under the same warrant? Could there be other lists of what the LaPlata County Sheriff's office took and what the CBI took? I am really talking out of my hat here, but this looks like a list of things seized primarily for forensic purposes.

 

[Ghostwheel]

This missing page as if you view where the cut off in the vehicle SW is the listing grounds for the search warrant according to Rule 41(b) of the Colorado Rules of Criminal procedure, it's a generic statement they seem to put at the end of every search warrant and since it's included for the house it would look exactly the same except maybe a different date and time of signature. There is nothing pertinent missing, IMO, except that it may have been signed on a different date than the house's search warrant. The date was probably the 29th on that one, since it couldn't have been on the 28th since the vehicle warrant was not drawn up until the 29th.

The time it was signed is what I want to know. Something is at the back of my mind that I can't quite bring out, but I know I want to know the time.

 

[Ghostwheel]

I'm going to show my ignorance here, since I've never seen a search warrant. But why does the search warrant say LaPlata County and the seizure list say FBI? Wasn't the CBI involved as well? Would they all act under the same warrant? Could there be other lists of what the LaPlata County Sheriff's office took and what the CBI took? I am really talking out of my hat here, but this looks like a list of things seized primarily for forensic purposes.

I think they all worked together. From this link:
http://cortezjournal.com/article/20121129/NEWS01/121129805/Investigators-searching-house-of-Dylan-Redwine%E2%80%99s-father&template=mobileart

"Colorado Bureau of Investigations and the FBI had tents and a trailer set up outside the house."

 

[Lordeebee]

And I have to wonder where the other page with the tear at the top left is. If you look at the first page posted, (It has a courthouse stamp marked Nov 29), there is a tear (like where there might have been a staple) in the upper left corner, and there is a visible page with a similar tear right beneath it. Pages 3 and 4 are the same picture (a second page, I think from 12SW177). Take note that the SW dated Nov 29 ends at *(4), and the 2 "second" pages start at *(3). ETA: I don't believe page 2 of 12SW179 is in the set of SW pictures

Redacted bigger pic attached (called pg 3-1st page of Nov 29 warrant).

Wow Ghostwheel! Now this is super sleuthing! Last night I guess I was too tired to take the time to figure out what you were saying...first pg ends at #4, and second starts at #3... I was like, huh?? but after studying these again, I see exactly what you mean. And I could swear there are "score" lines on the bottom of that first page, where it appears there was cut and pasting going on! Now I understand why you would like to see the dates on the second page.

Crafty stuff going on imo, but not very well thought out.

 

[Lordeebee]

I believe it has to do with whether LE thinks someone else took him from the home, or Mark absconded with him in the vehicle. I don't have the exact wording on the differences, but kidnapping 2 was to the effect that there was no use of, threat of use of or intent to use deadly force, the abductor is a relative of the person abducted, and the sole intent is to assume custody of that person. But thank you in advance to whomever looks it up.

Colorado Kidnapping/Abduction Laws
http://kidnapping.uslegal.com/state-kidnapping-abduction-laws/colorado-kidnappingabduction-laws/

a person commits first degree kidnapping if s/he carries any person from one place to another using force; or persuades another to move; or imprisons or secrets any person with the intent to force the victim to make any concession or give up anything of value in order to secure release.

a person commits second degree kidnapping when s/he seizes and carries any person from one place to another, without his consent and without lawful authority; or s/he takes away any child below 18 years with intent to keep or conceal the child from his or her parent or guardian or with intent to sell, trade, or barter such child for consideration.

The kidnapping charges are then broken down by degree or "class".

What I find interesting is that on the house, trailer, outbuilding etc., the SW specifies First Degree Kidnapping, Class 1 This is the most serious of the Felony charges and carries a much harsher sentence. This is because it relates to whether the victim suffered bodily injury:

A person committing first degree kidnapping is guilty of a class 1 felony if the victim suffered bodily injury. However a person convicted of first degree kidnapping shall not be awarded death penalty if the person kidnapped was liberated alive prior to the conviction of the defendant.

Did LE already have a pretty good idea that Dylan had suffered harm? And why would they utilize this specific charge if this was some sort of blanket SW with no particular suspect/defendent in mind?

BBM IBM

 

[KateNY]

I guess you haven't heard about SS labs. Waiting list is anywhere from 6-12 months if not longer for forensic electronic analysis.

BBM

interesting thought...

wonder if that's related to the "additional evidence analysis needs" mentioned in LE's last press release

:twocents:

 

[mijamawi]

BBM

interesting thought...

wonder if that's related to the "additional evidence analysis needs" mentioned in LE's last press release

:twocents:

So....for the second time, what is SS lab? I googled it and came up with stuff in India. Care to share with the rest of the class?

 

[Tricia]

Check out post number 2 for remarks from Mark Redwine.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9494403#post9494403"]Search Warrants for MR's house and vehicles - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[mijamawi]

Check out post number 2 for remarks from Mark Redwine.

Search Warrants for MR's house and vehicles - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Thank you, Tricia. If possible, can you share what was discussed with LE, if anything? Thanks again.