Sedation Of Caylee - Do you think it's common?

[waiting4change]

I was a young mother once and I would have NEVER thought of drugging my kids with anything. This is nuts! Do you know how many people would have loved to raise Caylee as their own? Why do some mothers (if that is what they should be called) resort to this kind of thing????? I will never understand.

 

[JaneInOz]

ADHD changes EVERYTHING! Love this post. Big hugs to you. :blowkiss:

My son is 8 and it took me years to finally agree with the diagnosis and allow him to be medicated. He's happier (and so are his teachers) on medication and he even apologizes for those times when he was "bad" (his word, not mine). He made the honor roll this quarter!

And..he's one of those kids who Benadryl and Nyquil make extremely hyper. So I don't even give it to him when he's sick LOL. That kind of proves to me that there's some sort of chemical imbalance involved with ADHD.

I just have a hard time judging parents for trying to make it work any way they know how. I get a lot of slack from people if I happen to mention that he has ADHD. I just don't want to pass that negativity on to anyone else.

There is a lot of evidence now that giving fish oil to children with ADHD is really really beneficial

As per this article here http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s1691896.htm

 

[SuziQ]

Thank you to everyone for your kind thoughts.

Notmykids, what a frustraiting and painful situation for you to be in.

OneLostGrl, a situation like yours is really the only one that can be helped. The docs need to know what you took and what you did wrong immediately, or the docs will waste a couple of days running a battery of tests trying to figure out what the problem is. And by the time they figure it out, it's too late. You can destroy your liver in as little as six hours. I'm glad you survived that ordeal.

 

[Charmed Life]

Sad. Sounds like more and more parents are turning to drugging as an alternative to discipline. Time out isn't working, spanking hurts their self etsteem (as so the books tell us) so let's drug them and risk killing them instead, hey that sounds like a good idea.

What ever happened to a good old fashioned spanking in love, like God's Word teaches us to do. The further we get away from god and the lessons of the bible, this is what starts to happen. It's no wonder there's so many problems now a days with the younger generation and it's only going to get worse. God help us!

Bolded by me. What an oxymoron. I would NEVER spank my child. I equate that to hurting my child. I love my child, therefore I would not hurt, hit, drug, or intentionally harm him.

 

[Imajica]

ADHD changes EVERYTHING!

My son is 8 and it took me years to finally agree with the diagnosis and allow him to be medicated. He's happier (and so are his teachers) on medication and he even apologizes for those times when he was "bad" (his word, not mine). He made the honor roll this quarter!

My oldest son is almost ten, and also has ADHD. I've fought tooth and nail against medicating him all of these years. We have done very well managing it naturally and with behavior modification until this year in 4th grade at a new, much harder school. The bottom fell out and he is falling behind right along with it. The school has been very supportive, and we are lucky to have a principal who is very caring and compassionate. Even with 600 plus kids she makes us feel like the only family there, which is lovely. We are trying some different approaches in class, with good results so far. But I am just not sure it's all enough. I had ADHD as a child, and I remember what an awful struggle some of the more linear subjects were for me. I don't want him to experience the same frustration if I can help it.

May I ask what you are trying that is working so well? I am trying to be receptive to all of our options and would like to hear more from a parent that is experiencing this firsthand.

Thanks in advance.
Oh and a hearty apology for the WAY OT post folks. :blushing:

 

[Ames]

Omg, my husband died from an adverse reaction to Tylenol. Not even an overdose. All it takes is one mishap with Tylenol aka acetaminophen and there are no second chances. You can't fix a liver that's destroyed. If you are lucky to get a liver transplant, in a couple of years you will need a lung and or kidney transplant. All it takes is one extra dose to kill someone or make them severely ill. Acetaminophen has it's therapeutic uses, but Acetaminophen is the number one cause of liver failure in the US. It is the most dangerous OCT med out there.

There are alot of OCT meds that have a sleep agent like Tylenol PM. That sleep agent is Benadryl and you are better off just taking Benadryl. Nyquil is another one that contains Acetaminophen. Almost all Cold and Flu products contan Acetaminophen. Alot of people have killed their children or themselves by not knowing this and then take Acetaminophen with their cold and flu meds, overdosing themselves. Also if you have any situtation that compromises your liver, it can't process Acetaminophen properly. Things that can cause this are dehydration, recovering from surgery, drinking liquor, caffiene, grapefruit juice, have a virus like the flu and even dieting. My husband was taking Acetaminophen while he had the RSV virus he caught from our baby.

Don't count on a doctor to give you a heads up on this. I have copy of a memo to from Tylenol to it's sales staff, ordering them to never ever mention the "L" word liver, when pushing their products to doctors. Quite a few years ago Tylenol did a blind survey in a Mall asking "Would you still buy a product that's currently in your home, if you knew it could kill you?" 75 percent of the respondents answered "NO". Yet Tylenol did the math and figured it was less costly to pay out on wrongful death and injury suits than to suffer loss in sales. I also have an interoffice memo where it's discussed that having the warning put on the label would be too costly.

Sorry for the long rant, every once in a while I need to get it off my chest.

:blowkiss:

I am sorry to hear about your husband. My mother-in-law used to work for a dentist. He had a 16 year old patient, that had some work done on some teeth, and he recommended Tylenol for pain. I didn't know this until my MIL told me, but you are supposed to drink plenty of water, when you take Tylenol. The 16 year old apparently didn't know that either, and she took some without water, and it killed her.

 

[janice]

Remember the flight attendant who told a mother she should give her son "baby benedryl" because he kept saying "bye bye airplane?" That's when I became suspicious that this might be a common practice.

 

[Jagger-Byrne]

My sister and I were having a conversation about this case and the possible use of xanax and chloroform on Caylee as a so-called babysitter. It makes me sick to my stomach at the thought of it. My sister said she bet it was more common than not that people would use sedatives on their kids to put them to sleep. What do you people think? A common practice?

Only someone of lesser intelligence (like KC) would think they were able to "safely drug" their child....especially when the drugs are Xanax and homemade chloroform...and God knows what else she gave that poor little baby. Cat Lady, I feel sick when I think about this, too!

My son is 4 and I would NEVER, EVER play around with medications to make him sleep. A good day of PLAY and ACTIVITIES and EXPERIENCES is the perfect child sedative!!!!

A few years back my son's Dr. arranged for my son to have an MRI of his head. Before the appt. we had to get a medication from the pharmacy called CHLORAL HYDRATE. Before the MRI we had to force my son to drink it. (Obviously we did it as gently and nicely as we could.) It completely knocked him out. (The Neurologist said that chloral hydrate is sold over-the-counter in some foreign countries to sedate children, which I think is just terrible.) The chloral hydrate kept my son asleep for the entire MRI - and then some. We had to wait at the office to make sure that he would wake up OK. I was so nervous and upset for having to give him that crap!!. The good news is that the MRI showed that he was perfectly fine (which, as a mother I already knew.)

My short answer: No it is not a common practice to use sedatives on a child! As I stated above - A good day of PLAY and ACTIVITIES and EXPERIENCES is the perfect child sedative!!!!......But, sadly, as we all know, focusing on Caylee would have totally cramped KC's style!!

 

[Egoslayer]

Sorry, I'm not really sure where to put this.
This is very speculative, but hear me out. I'm afraid there might be other children suffering like Caylee did.

In the other thread, there was talk about 2 other girls from fusion that fit the "ZFG" mold, notably that they had young children (age 3).

I think that Caylee did this with other mothers for a few reasons:
- I don't think she was smart enough to think of making Caylee sleep with chloroform.
- The searches were in March, so maybe one of the girls at the club suggested it to her, and she looked it up, and decided to try it. (from March to June) There were more no more searches about it after that, as far as we know.
- Casey's personality lends itself to mob mentality. She does everything as long as others are doing it with her. The no-clothes party, going to fusion and partying, etc. She needs other people's approval. I don't think she would've drugged Caylee unless another mom told her it was "ok". Then she did it blindly to fit in.
- There is no proof Casey bought Chloroform, and once again, I doubt she was smart enough to make it. It's much more likely that she bought it with cash from a different mom.
- Most mothers that kill their kids do it in simple ways - strangulation, drowning, blunt force. That might be how Caylee died, but the clorophorm idea came from someone else, imo :twocents:

Lastly - when I first heard "Zanie" - I immediately thought Xanax. This is what some of my patients call it. "Zanie" was used before Casey had any contact with Zenaida Gonzales, so maybe the moms decided to use that name as a joke at first (xanax is a depressant like chloroform), and Casey evolved it into a name, then a person, then a story, which is all a lie.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I have never heard of anyone giving their child chloroform by itself or mixed with anything else.

In fact I haven't heard about chloroform for decades and didn't even think it was used anymore for anything.

I would think it would be strictly controlled since it would be a hazardous material.

imoo

 

[Where's Andre]

Certainly Benadryl, especially for airplane flights and boat rides I've heard from various parents.

Using Xanax or Chloroform seems a complete and utterlly different animal. I struggle with the extreme risk, expense and other difficulties obtaining these. Why use these when Benadryl is OTC, supposedly effective and relatively cheap? If Caylee didn't like pills, then Zanax stopped being an option, so she had to start home-brewing Chloroform?

 

[Egoslayer]

I don't think Casey was smart enough to home-brew clorophorm. I made a thread about this same topic but it was deleted.

 

[trac]

I was born in 1963 (GASP :too much info and my brothers and I were given Benadryl cough syrup on days like Christmas Eve to settle down because we were all three under the age of 3 1/2 and nearly all of us were in diapers at the same time!!

It's amazing THEY made it through... hahaha

They would line us up and give us a spoonful. We weren't "drugged". It just has an active antihistimine that makes you drowsy. In fact, Parke Davis changed Benadryl and it no longer causes drowsiness so it wouldn't even work IMO nowadays.

1962 here LOL - okay when my daughters were 3 and 16 mos they had chicken pox at the same time - it was bad - I have been a single mother my entire parenting life - so I had to take time off from work (which wasn't looked well upon) and they were crying, itching, it was terrible - the doctor told me to give them Benedryl for the itching and such - it was a week - only 2 doses each for them - they slept for hours on end BUT not itching and breaking the pox or anything - when it finally starte to go away, my sitter was able to take them so they didn't infect anyone else

THO when I was young (back in the dark ages it seems) I was born with bronchitis and terrible lungs - still is bad to this day - my parents never drugged me - there were so many nights my Mom was by my side feeding me warm tea with lemon or warm lemon ade - and there were 4 kids and I was always sick - when I got older, the doctors started giving me codeine for the bronchitis - luckily I was never addicted!

I guess what I'm trying to say - my priorities weren't the parties or what not as Casey's was - it's all about priorities and family dynamics here - Casey could have easily had Cindy and George watch Caylee - she didn't want that - her priorities was partying and guys and it didn't look like she had the family dynamic to fall back on

So no matter if someone drugs their child to sleep or not - their priorities aren't their children it's what they do after they drug their child to sleep

 

[Egoslayer]

1962 here LOL - okay when my daughters were 3 and 16 mos they had chicken pox at the same time - it was bad - I have been a single mother my entire parenting life - so I had to take time off from work (which wasn't looked well upon) and they were crying, itching, it was terrible - the doctor told me to give them Benedryl for the itching and such - it was a week - only 2 doses each for them - they slept for hours on end BUT not itching and breaking the pox or anything - when it finally starte to go away, my sitter was able to take them so they didn't infect anyone else

THO when I was young (back in the dark ages it seems) I was born with bronchitis and terrible lungs - still is bad to this day - my parents never drugged me - there were so many nights my Mom was by my side feeding me warm tea with lemon or warm lemon ade - and there were 4 kids and I was always sick - when I got older, the doctors started giving me codeine for the bronchitis - luckily I was never addicted!

I guess what I'm trying to say - my priorities weren't the parties or what not as Casey's was - it's all about priorities and family dynamics here - Casey could have easily had Cindy and George watch Caylee - she didn't want that - her priorities was partying and guys and it didn't look like she had the family dynamic to fall back on

So no matter if someone drugs their child to sleep or not - their priorities aren't their children it's what they do after they drug their child to sleep

Great point. Casey could've been vindicated of her responsibilities but she didn't want to. She was stubborn & wanted to be considered a good mom, but didn't want to genuinely be one.

 

[H_Chick]

There was a case some years back now (Maybe ten plus years back) and I cannot recall all the details, but I do remember that a single mother had started to go out with a man who was either a doctor or a nurse, and when he wanted to take the mother out in the evenings, he would sedate the child (I dont remember what with, or how often but it rings a bell that it must have been an injectable substance maybe, anyway I cant swear on that as its too long ago for my rusty mind to draw all the details properly) with the mothers knowledge, and she was letting it happen too. Im pretty sure this happened in the UK.
I think the time that she chose to complain about it was when her boyfriend dumped her - THEN all of a sudden it became something she was shocked and outraged at. Yeah right. As guilty as her shonky boyfriend.
I would absolutely floor anyone who attempted to do that to my small daughter, and I would not even allow anyone to SUGGEST something like that to me.
Yes it was common practice for parents in my parents agegroup to put a tablespoon of whisky or brandy in the night time bottle, and most of them were quite open about the procedure. In my generation of parents I believe there may well have been a lot of parents who used allergy medications and some teething preparations to achieve a KNOCKOUT, and no, once again I would not have entertained the thought because it was never something that I pulled my hair out over. Kids drop off to sleep eventually, dont they? Every parent knows that there are going to be some nights when your kids zing off the walls till midnight - you dont gosh darned well drug them.
But maybe for some maladjusted young single mother who had itchy feet (and maybe itchy other body parts) to get out there and get in the thick of it again, the temptation seemed too great and it all seemed fairly harmless and who was to know anyway if she sedated her night after night?
Very sad case for wee Caylee - I bet CA was hoping like hell alligators or something did the dirty work and disposed of the evidence.
Its all tragic. I would hazard a guess that even now there are some parents who still think it is ok to give the kids a wee tipple of something to ease them off to dreamland. Heres a tip - TRY HOT MILK with a teaspoon of honey in it.

 

[TheTruthIsOutThere]

I just got through reading through this entire thread, and I have to said that my heart has broken for all of you great mothers who stick by your children, no matter what. You are all really awesome.

Now... what I came in here to post was something that really just grated on my nerves. I started reading up on some of this benadryl drugging, and I found something kind of atrocious.

They were talking about giving young children a lot of Mountain Dew soda several hours before bed, so they would be really hyper and then crash! Yes, because it's completely okay to get your child addicted to caffeine at that age. UGH!

One girl stepped in to say that it wasn't safe... and suggested using Benadryl at night instead.

I don't even know what to think about this... and it's even more sickening that these parents are taking to the net for validation of these practices.

 

[LCoastMom]

As I was reading here I remembered a story my neighbor told me. While on vacation to visit her mother she gave her highly active 5 yo valirien root to calm her down. She gave it to her 2 y o too, just for good measure I guess. But it back fired, the 5 yo was more talkative and inquisitive than ever. Mom and granny didn't even realize what they had done, she was just telling me these horror stories about the way the 5 yo acted and misbehaved in public. I pointed out she had gotten her kid drunk and she behaved accordingly. Mom and granny got what they deserved as they were appalled by kids actions, sadly kid kept getting in trouble for the bad behavior, I think was caused by drug.

 

[LCoastMom]

1962 here LOL - okay when my daughters were 3 and 16 mos they had chicken pox at the same time - it was bad - I have been a single mother my entire parenting life - so I had to take time off from work (which wasn't looked well upon) and they were crying, itching, it was terrible - the doctor told me to give them Benedryl for the itching and such - it was a week - only 2 doses each for them - they slept for hours on end BUT not itching and breaking the pox or anything - when it finally starte to go away, my sitter was able to take them so they didn't infect anyone else

THO when I was young (back in the dark ages it seems) I was born with bronchitis and terrible lungs - still is bad to this day - my parents never drugged me - there were so many nights my Mom was by my side feeding me warm tea with lemon or warm lemon ade - and there were 4 kids and I was always sick - when I got older, the doctors started giving me codeine for the bronchitis - luckily I was never addicted!

I guess what I'm trying to say - my priorities weren't the parties or what not as Casey's was - it's all about priorities and family dynamics here - Casey could have easily had Cindy and George watch Caylee - she didn't want that - her priorities was partying and guys and it didn't look like she had the family dynamic to fall back on

So no matter if someone drugs their child to sleep or not - their priorities aren't their children it's what they do after they drug their child to sleep

Trac I posted this here earlier and for some reason it is now gone. When your doc had you medicate your sick kids it was for their comfort. The fact that you got a little relief was just an bonus side effect.

 

[lorann]

My daughter was a colicky baby, and I was horrified when my MIL suggested putting whiskey in her bottle. I grew up in a house with no alcohol or not even taking aspirin unless I was really sick. I was really desperate for sleep but more than that, my heart was so torn that this tiny baby was in pain so often. But no whiskey. I found that holding her very close and rocking helped. She finally got through that but when she was about one yr old, she got so sick early in the evening, high fever, pulling at her ear and screaming. Drs then made house calls but mine was not available. Called my MIL's dr, he came, gave her a shot and gave me a scrip to fill for phenobarbital, saying you can't raise a kid without this. I got in to see my Dr the next day, tore up the scrip, and never left the baby in MIL's care again for fear she would medicate her. Drs and parents have learned a lot over the years but common sense and instinct should tell us the answer isn't always a pill or prescription. This does not include children with serious problems - but to give someone medication for our comfort is terrible. It is comforting to me that Drs are not just grabbing the script pad as often as they did many years ago.

 

[Pollywog]

My ex-SIL would drug her oldest daughter because she was very active and loud. She always gave her childrens tylenol or other cold med just so she would sleep and be quiet. It would tick me off big time, but she said she had a "cold" etc. That child is now 22 and there are no known problems because she did that. I never gave mine anything unless they were truly sick. I can see KC doing it so she could party and just not be bothered.