Sedation Of Caylee - Do you think it's common?

[KellioPSL]

when researching xanax for this case, I noticed that kc spelled xanax correctly in her computer searches, the reason I know this is because I didnt spell it correctly when I searched. It is commonly mispelled, that tells me she had more knowledge of it than I do.
I also noticed that xanax comes in a form that you inhale, just thought that was interesting....especially with searches for "inhalation"
I also think that kc's search for "chloroform habit" leads me to believe that she was afraid she was addicted to it. as always just mho.

 

[belleyes]

My daughter was officially diagnosed in grade one with severe adhd. She takes 54 mg of Concerta in the morning. Before she was on this medication she was becoming depressed and labeled by the other children for not being able to keep up and always being the "last one". She is doing wonderful since being on this medication and was placed in the gifted class in grade 4. She is now in grade six. She also takes 3 mg of melatonin at bedtime to help her sleep through the night.

I know it is a difficult decision to make on whether to give your child medication, but you have to weigh the pros and cons and make an informed decision based on what is right for your child. In two weeks we knew what the right dosage was that worked for my daughter and she is happy. On the weekends we choose not to give it to her so she has a better appetite for food.

O/T
ITA I have 3 children (adopted from foster care) and 1 foster. 3 of them have ADHD----all very different. I was always against meds/dopping kids until my oldest came to us. Its was him on meds or me in psych ward (just joking) My advice is just continue to have and open mind and heart and wait for God's leading (you'll have that gut feeling)
#1 cant funtion off of meds (he actually bounces off the walls-*we have video proof*)(he also has TS)
#2 No meds (was previously on meds in other foster homes) very active and talkative but has some self-control
#3 takes meds to focus at school (grades went from below grade level to above)


On/T I think we have to remain open minded that we all have differing opinions on parenting. Parenting is not a science. I personally have more respect for a parent giving their insomniac child a Dr. recomended dose of cough med to sleep, than I do for a sleep deprived parent who beats/shakes their child out of rage and frustration. The problem for me is when parents use this as a babysitter or more than once in a great while.
* I am in no way condoning the "drugging" of children, and have not done this to mine (some days I wish I could-JUST KIDDING-mine get jazzed up on cough meds)(Have you ever seen a sick ADHD child racing around the house with a vomit bucket?)

 

[magic-cat]

One time, back in the 1970s, long before I had kids of my own, I was at a bowling alley, admiring a pretty little sleeping baby girl. I commented to her parents how well she was sleeping through all the noise. The parents looked at each other and smiled, then said to me, "we put beer in her bottle." I was horrified someone would do that to their infant. I was young but I wasn't stupid.

So if those parents did it back then, they must have learned it from somewhere.

So to answer your question, I think many people do that to their children. Certainly not everyone, maybe not even half the parents, but unfortunately, too many.

My 2 daughters have an EX step mother who is also the mother of their half sister with their father. She ROUTINELY put beer in this poor babies bottle, and she drugged her consistently on a regular and ongoing basis using whatever she could get her hands on. The child was showing signs of Acetamenaphine over-dose just after the mother and my 2 girls father divorced...projectile vomiting, etc. My girls had been sharing bits and pieces with me through the years (this little girl was only 2 and had been getting beer in the bottle from infancy on TOP of her mother abusing drugs while she was pregnant with her) but they really began to come clean once she was no longer in their lives.

Come to find out, she had snorted pills in front of MY girls and even taken them in a car on a "drug deal" and had them "watch" for the police. I nearly died and immediately called her up and made sure she understood that I was alerting the authorities to her behavior and would see her in court if I had my way. Of course that never happened-my girls were small, too small to drag into the court system, and PROOF of the events was hard to come by.

Drugging children is VERY common and may be done by someone you know that you would never suspect. It is not something that MOST people would just admit to you, but rather something they would do under cover of secrecy.

Just for the record, this woman's name was ANGEL (can you believe it) and I have an ongoing belief that she was one of the angels cast down from heaven with Lucifer himself...Satan's Angel and VERY good at her job!:furious:

 

[magic-cat]

O/T
ITA I have 3 children (adopted from foster care) and 1 foster. 3 of them have ADHD----all very different. I was always against meds/dopping kids until my oldest came to us. Its was him on meds or me in psych ward (just joking) My advice is just continue to have and open mind and heart and wait for God's leading (you'll have that gut feeling)
#1 cant funtion off of meds (he actually bounces off the walls-*we have video proof*)(he also has TS)
#2 No meds (was previously on meds in other foster homes) very active and talkative but has some self-control
#3 takes meds to focus at school (grades went from below grade level to above)


On/T I think we have to remain open minded that we all have differing opinions on parenting. Parenting is not a science. I personally have more respect for a parent giving their insomniac child a Dr. recomended dose of cough med to sleep, than I do for a sleep deprived parent who beats/shakes their child out of rage and frustration. The problem for me is when parents use this as a babysitter or more than once in a great while.
* I am in no way condoning the "drugging" of children, and have not done this to mine (some days I wish I could-JUST KIDDING-mine get jazzed up on cough meds)(Have you ever seen a sick ADHD child racing around the house with a vomit bucket?)

Almost any doctor would recommend Melatonin for children and not cough syrup...:blowkiss:

 

[wallflower67]

Prescription meds, like Xanax or other sedatives =uncommon
Chloroform= absolutely unheard of to me, before this case & we have lots of friends with kids (although most of the parents aren't super young, if that makes a difference)
Benadryl= not "common", but done, occasionally for airline flights., and only by the dosage on the bottle.

As a pharmacist, I can tell you there is a legitimate reason for giving a child benadryl prior to an airplane ride, and it has nothing to do with sedation. A child's eustation tubes in their ears are different than an adults and more easily affected by the pressure change in an airplane. An antihystamine can help. Tylenol can help with the pain.

Infants and even older kids are not able to clear their ears the way an adult can...yawning, blowing your nose, etc. It just doesn't work for them. Infants obviously cannot chew gum, nor can really small children.

children can tell you they are in pain, but an infant cannot and can be in serious pain during an airplane flight. So it's almost cruel NOT to give them a little something ahead of time to ease or prevent that pain. It's easier to prevent the pain rather than treat it once it has started.

I gave my daughter benadryl before flights until she was ten. Once I forgot to give it to her, and she never let me forget it! She's 14 now, and has no problem clearing the pressure in her ears.

Also, in some kids, benadryl can have the opposite affect and make them hyper.

 

[wallflower67]

My daughter was officially diagnosed in grade one with severe adhd. She takes 54 mg of Concerta in the morning. Before she was on this medication she was becoming depressed and labeled by the other children for not being able to keep up and always being the "last one". She is doing wonderful since being on this medication and was placed in the gifted class in grade 4. She is now in grade six. She also takes 3 mg of melatonin at bedtime to help her sleep through the night.

I know it is a difficult decision to make on whether to give your child medication, but you have to weigh the pros and cons and make an informed decision based on what is right for your child. In two weeks we knew what the right dosage was that worked for my daughter and she is happy. On the weekends we choose not to give it to her so she has a better appetite for food.

My daughter also has severe ADHD. When she was in public school, she took 54mg of Concerta. I am home schooling this year and last year only, so I was able to give her immediate release Focalin (which lasts about 4 horus.). If she needs another dose, then she gets it. If she's done with her work or is concentrating fine then she doesn't need it.

She also has severe OCD. I didn't medicate that either...until she got suicidal at age 11. I have it too, so I know what she was going through, and I felt guilty for not treating her earlier.

Now she has very very heavy cycles and signs of endometriosis (at age 14). I did too, and it can be hereditary. So now she is also on birth control pills to control her bleeding. I hated doing it because she is so young (14), but I don't want her to find out at 25 she can't have babies because this was untreated.

I agonized each time I put her on one of these medications, because I know so many people would judge me for it. But she is quite healthy and happy right now. So I don't regret it.

 

[dee10134]

It is NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER acceptable to EVER give your child over-the-counter or prescription medication (or any illicit substances) that they do not need (ie. NOT sick) in an effort to get them to go to sleep. EVER.

People who do should have DCFS called on them.

JMHO.

 

[Jolynna]

I think it's used but not common. You occasionally hear about the moron who used alcohol on their baby, or benadryl, which can be deadly in both cases. People are selfish and stupid so nothing surprises me anymore.

It is impossible to use as a babysitter.

To keep the child asleep you have to administer it a little at a time. That means standing by the child's head continuously dripping it out. If you have to be there what is the point?

I contend NOBODY has ever used chloroform for a babysitter.

 

[wellcalm]

when researching xanax for this case, I noticed that kc spelled xanax correctly in her computer searches, the reason I know this is because I didnt spell it correctly when I searched. It is commonly mispelled, that tells me she had more knowledge of it than I do.
I also noticed that xanax comes in a form that you inhale, just thought that was interesting....especially with searches for "inhalation"
I also think that kc's search for "chloroform habit" leads me to believe that she was afraid she was addicted to it. as always just mho.

Very interesting to hear that there is a a form of xanax that you can inhale. I have always thought this theory of giving Caylee xanax was bunk because I take .5 mg of xanax 3 times a day as perscribed by my physician. It is nasty tasting stuff if you get it on your tongue and I have always thought that administering it to a 2+ year old would be next to impossible due to the taste. Even if crushed and put in pudding or apple sauce I'm sure the flavour would cause the child to spit it out. A child that age does not know how to take medication in a tablet form and would either begin to chew it or suck on it and would immediately spit it out because of its flavour.

As well, I have said that I myself take it and I have wondered what dose one would have to give a child to actually make them sleep. I do not feel drowsy or the least bit sedated when I take mine and I don't know how much you would have to take to make you feel sleepy. Of course we are talking about a wee person, so I don't know what it would do to a small child. I just can't get past its awful taste to be swayed that Caylee took it, especially as all the previous posts have indicated that there are probably much easier, tastier means of getting a child to swallow sedating medication. As you pointed out however, if there is a type one can inhale, perhaps it is possible if it comes in the form of a nasal spray. That sounds easy enough to administer. But if it is a powder that is to be inhaled, I doubt a child would be willing to do that. You would have a very defiant toddler on your hands.

I'm surprised anyone even gets stoned off this stuff, but I guess if you take enough, its apparently possible. I've never desired to take any more of it than what is perscribed to me.

 

[TheTruthIsOutThere]

It is impossible to use as a babysitter.

To keep the child asleep you have to administer it a little at a time. That means standing by the child's head continuously dripping it out. If you have to be there what is the point?

I contend NOBODY has ever used chloroform for a babysitter.

I know very little about chloroform, so I have to ask - then - would leaving a rag soaked in chloroform not keep the child asleep? This seems to be a VERY popular theory... but is it then, impossible?

 

[wellcalm]

My daughter also has severe ADHD. When she was in public school, she took 54mg of Concerta. I am home schooling this year and last year only, so I was able to give her immediate release Focalin (which lasts about 4 horus.). If she needs another dose, then she gets it. If she's done with her work or is concentrating fine then she doesn't need it.

She also has severe OCD. I didn't medicate that either...until she got suicidal at age 11. I have it too, so I know what she was going through, and I felt guilty for not treating her earlier.

Now she has very very heavy cycles and signs of endometriosis (at age 14). I did too, and it can be hereditary. So now she is also on birth control pills to control her bleeding. I hated doing it because she is so young (14), but I don't want her to find out at 25 she can't have babies because this was untreated.

I agonized each time I put her on one of these medications, because I know so many people would judge me for it. But she is quite healthy and happy right now. So I don't regret it.

You've obviously have made the right choices. She is lucky to have an informed, educated parent looking out for her best interest. It is agonizing trying to figure out what is in our childs best interest when there is contriversy surrounding some of the medications that are out there and some misinformation as well.

People who medicate their children based on their own needs make me very angry. I have read things on this thread that I didn't really know were taking place. I could easily give my daughter her medication for ADHD on the weekends, which would make for a much more stable home environment for ME, but she eats better without it and I am willing to manage through her hyperactivity and impulsiveness, etc. for her to get better nutrition on the weekends because her medication does make her lose her appetite. It's not about what I need, but what she needs.

 

[Origrammi]

It might be more common than we want to think. I've always thought that's what happened to Maddy McCanie (sic).

Someone told me when I was young and stupid to rub whiskey on my daughters gums when she was teething...But I wasn't THAT stupid. It sounded like a really dumb idea to me so I never did it. There was oragel, why put whiskey in a babys mouth...

The people that medicate their kids to knock them out or make them sleep are probably used to being in a culture where they themselves are self-medicating for any number of reasons...including to party. That may numb them to the error of their ways.

 

[wallflower67]

You've obviously have made the right choices. She is lucky to have an informed, educated parent looking out for her best interest. It is agonizing trying to figure out what is in our childs best interest when there is contriversy surrounding some of the medications that are out there and some misinformation as well.

People who medicate their children based on their own needs make me very angry. I have read things on this thread that I didn't really know were taking place. I could easily give my daughter her medication for ADHD on the weekends, which would make for a much more stable home environment for ME, but she eats better without it and I am willing to manage through her hyperactivity and impulsiveness, etc. for her to get better nutrition on the weekends because her medication does make her lose her appetite. It's not about what I need, but what she needs.

I don't give my daughter her ADHD meds on weekends either, unless there is something important she needs to concentrate on. Her appetite is definietly better without the meds!

 

[janice]

It is impossible to use as a babysitter.

To keep the child asleep you have to administer it a little at a time. That means standing by the child's head continuously dripping it out. If you have to be there what is the point?

I contend NOBODY has ever used chloroform for a babysitter.

Do you suppose she taped a cloth soaked in chloroform to Caylee's mouth not knowing that it would kill her?

 

[future criminologist]

I used to do something particularly evil to my daughter when I knew I needed her to sleep well through the night.

I played with her. Ran around the yard, wrestled with her, pillow fights, water pistols...until she was exhausted. Then she'd sleep like an angel all night long.

Problem was, it backfired sometimes and I ended up more tired than she was!!

Damn, all I needed was cough syrup???

I am with you on this - I don't have my own kids, but I babysit my nephews a lot, and you can actually learn a lot from Dog Whisperer (I know this sounds bad, but go with me on it!) about parenting. Dogs need discipline, affection, and EXERCISE, and so do kids. I always make sure that the kids are playing outside, running around, and tiring themselves out, not sitting in front of the tv all day. (I find that if they don't have an outlet to get out their energy, they're going to turn that energy negatively onto their siblings, or worse, you.) No need for Benadryl when they are all tired out from a long day. Just watching them makes me tired - kids run everywhere!

here's my question for this thread: isn't there a HUGE LEAP between Benadryl and chloroform??? Chloroform is not only illegal but it has some really dangerous chemicals. You might as well give your kid meth in my opinion. I mean, it contains methane, chlorine, ethanol, ammonia...why would anyone in their right mind purposely put those chemicals in their own children?? I really don't think this is common at all - I also have never ever heard of anyone using it to sedate a child.

 

[KellioPSL]

one of the other w/s's mentioned that even though they arent supposed too, tattoo and body piercing places commonly use chloroform, when doing various body piercings. I went to website that specializes in body piercing, and I gotta tell you chloroform I gotta believe wouldnt do it for me ( Ive never seen or been around chloroform, but if I were to have something of that nature done I would want to be unconcious like with anesthesia) But I can see where kc would have had access to chloroform.

Also of interest on this website there was a blog and one of the posters that had body piercings was called "chloroform perfume"

 

[Origrammi]

Sadly yes, it's a fairly common practice.

But I have always heard it's with more common sedatives that aren't illegal such as Diphenhydramine which is commonly found in the antihistamine Benadryl.

That is one of the major reasons the FDA issued new strong warnings about prescribing antihistamines and cold meds to small children.

There is a good but infuriating article about parents like Casey who drug their kids for "peace and quiet" here:http://tinyurl.com/5goo7f

And another here about parents who drug their children during airplane flights:http://tinyurl.com/63n26j

Unfortunately, just about every foul thing you can think of to do to an innocent child has and is done every day in this world by caregivers who don't want to give care.

There just aren't enough resources for those that need help.

Thank's for this great post, great information...it even mentions Casey.

Snipped from the above link:

In the last three years, ten daycare centers tried to make their lives easier by workers allegedly sedating children with cold medicines and cough syrups. Four babies died in those cases. Sabine Bieber, former owner of Tiny Tots Day Care in Montana, was sentenced to 40 years in prison for giving one-year-old Dane Heggem a fatal dose of generic allergy medicine (without the parents permission) to manage their nap times.

I was redirected to this URL
http://www.momlogic.com/2008/11/casey_anthony_caylee_anthony_g_2.php

 

[Jolynna]

I know very little about chloroform, so I have to ask - then - would leaving a rag soaked in chloroform not keep the child asleep? This seems to be a VERY popular theory... but is it then, impossible?

It needs to be dosed out a bit at a time to keep somebody knocked out without killing them.

Even on underground sites if you search for "ways to get your child to sleep through the night" you will NOT find chloroform...ANYWHERE...not once.

You WILL find site after site listing chloroform AND "neck breaking" on the very same page if you google "euthanasia" or "killing animals".

 

[Jolynna]

You can find also chloroform soaked rag references on sites about "operating on animals" or "date rape".

Those don't mention "neck breaking" on the same page, but if Casey anticipated something physical happening to Caylee and wanted to be sure Caylee wouldn't remember or talk about it...there would be a reason to "knock Caylee out" for 20 minutes or so.

 

[TheTruthIsOutThere]

Now I have to wonder what the damn chloroform was used for. I see no logical reason for KC to need to knock her out for that short amount of time. Or that she would spend all the effort making it for that short of a time period of "payoff."