Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #6

[Hope4More]

So if the Hughes's were campaigning so hard for Jodi, when/what exactly was the catalyst to make her eavesdrop on them and them kick her out of their house??? They were on her side...

Months had passed. These emails were in January, IIRC, the eavesdropping happened in April, after Sky had caught a (bigger) clue.

 

[Hope4More]

Back to the "wife lottery," how did JA become privy to him saying that to the Hugheses? Did TA actually share that with her? or did the Hugheses tell her? Or did she hack into these emails?

Wondering...

I have no doubt at all that she read these emails at some point. I also think it would be in character for Travis to have told her, after making it clear to her he wasn't going to marry her, that whoever did would be very lucky, lucky to have won the wife lotto.


In TA's Mormon world, he needed to be married ASAP, but so did she. The was already, when they met, way older than what was typical for a Mormon woman to be single. IMO part of his guilt when she was in Mesa was that he was holding HER back from marriage.

 

[LinasK]

I have no doubt at all that she read these emails at some point. I also think it would be in character for Travis to have told her, after making it clear to her he wasn't going to marry her, that whoever did would be very lucky, lucky to have won the wife lotto.


In TA's Mormon world, he needed to be married ASAP, but so did she. The was already, when they met, way older than what was typical for a Mormon woman to be single. IMO part of his guilt when she was in Mesa was that he was holding HER back from marriage.

Only her motive to get married wasn't because it was the Mormon thing to do before age 30 and settle down and have children, it was to be a golddigger.

 

[TexMex]

It gets worse, at least from Sky. Even after Travis wrote like this to her, her first and second response was to keep up her profoundly cutting criticism of him. She absolutely believed the over him, and held him responsible for the feelings the was expressing. Chris was more charitable, and seemed to know he and Sky--I suspect mostly Sky, had indeed stepped over the line.

I'm convinced the only reason Travis ever attempted a relationship with the was because of this assault on him by his "friends."

Jodi was manipulating the Hughes. She would spin stories about Travis to them in an effort to drive a wedge between him and his friends. It worked. She's that good at manipulation. They, like Travis, hadn't run across a sociopathic borderline before. I don't fault them.

 

[Hope4More]

Jodi was manipulating the Hughes. She would spin stories about Travis to them in an effort to drive a wedge between him and his friends. It worked. She's that good at manipulation. They, like Travis, hadn't run across a sociopathic borderline before. I don't fault them.

I haven't run across one of those either, that I know of anyway, but if anyone, anyone at all came to me telling me the things she did, I am100% sure what I would have said was--this is not my business. It sounds like there must be some miscommunication between you and my friend, and it's my friend you need to talk with, not me.

 

[Hope4More]

In any case, the reason I took the time to paraphrase those emails had nothing to do with the Hughes. The emails are about Travis and how once upon a time he felt about the , and IMO they lay out the sources of internal conflict he had that she so adeptly used against him, sex not being among those mentioned.

 

[geevee]

Jodi was manipulating the Hughes. She would spin stories about Travis to them in an effort to drive a wedge between him and his friends. It worked. She's that good at manipulation. They, like Travis, hadn't run across a sociopathic borderline before. I don't fault them.

BBM

I do, they had known him for years and known her only a few months, they (and esp. Sky) should have had more faith in Travis. He was never abusive to Deanna yet they tell JA that he is that type of guy? Some friends. I realize they did not care for the fact that Travis didn't marry Deanna after so much time together but it seems he explained himself more than in these letters to them, if they refused to believe his reasoning, again, some friends.

I'm not clear on whether Chris was above Travis (in that he made money off of Travis' PPL work) but I do know they made money off Travis with their book after he was gone and for that I have little sympathy for them, in regard to the above though they should have had more trust in him and just stayed out of it.

 

[GigiG]

I haven't run across one of those either, that I know of anyway, but if anyone, anyone at all came to me telling me the things she did, I am100% sure what I would have said was--this is not my business. It sounds like there must be some miscommunication between you and my friend, and it's my friend you need to talk with, not me.

I don't want to cast aspersions on the Hugheses. I do think they're basically good people. But I'm glad that I'm old enough and wise enough to take well-intentioned advice and toss it out if I see fit to do that. I don't think Travis was in that place. They just made him more conflicted. I have no doubt that he would have seen through JA a lot sooner if they hadn't messed with his head.

I think their book about Travis was basically an act of atonement for the part they played in creating the chaos in TA's life regarding JA. I'd like to think that on some level, they realize they did more harm than good, and wish they'd done things differently. JMO

 

[TexMex]

BBM

I do, they had known him for years and known her only a few months, they (and esp. Sky) should have had more faith in Travis. He was never abusive to Deanna yet they tell JA that he is that type of guy? Some friends. I realize they did not care for the fact that Travis didn't marry Deanna after so much time together but it seems he explained himself more than in these letters to them, if they refused to believe his reasoning, again, some friends.

I'm not clear on whether Chris was above Travis (in that he made money off of Travis' PPL work) but I do know they made money off Travis with their book after he was gone and for that I have little sympathy for them, in regard to the above though they should have had more trust in him and just stayed out of it.

The borderline in my sons life tried driving a wedge between my son and his own grandmother. Would call her crying, asking for "advice" and "guidance". Spinning all sorts of stories. It actually made my own mother question her own grandson for several months. Don't be too harsh on the Hughes. They got fooled. Just like Travis. Like my mother. It's hard to explain.
But read the emails the Hughes replied to Travis too. It's in their book. Travis wasn't mad at them so I'm not going to be either.

 

[Hope4More]

I don't want to cast aspersions on the Hugheses. I do think they're basically good people. But I'm glad that I'm old enough and wise enough to take well-intentioned advice and toss it out if I see fit to do that. I don't think Travis was in that place. They just made him more conflicted. I have no doubt that he would have seen through JA a lot sooner if they hadn't messed with his head.

I think their book about Travis was basically an act of atonement for the part they played in creating the chaos in TA's life regarding JA. I'd like to think that on some level, they realize they did more harm than good, and wish they'd done things differently. JMO

I think Chris genuinely loved Travis, wanted the best for him, and was able to accept Travis for who he was. I also get the sense neither saw each other as equals. Chris seemed more a big brother figure, someone Travis looked up to, and whose respect Travis felt he had to earn. I don't think Sky is a bad person, and I don't believe she's tried to profit off TA's death. Completely IMO and based only on what little of their long relationship we know about, I think Sky believed she was helping Travis. My guess is she didn't understand that what she called blunt could feel harsh and judgmental to those on the receiving end.

She writes in their book about the one time she regretted what she said to Travis. He approached her in June 2007 about the , and she said she went off, telling him in no uncertain terms that he should run the other way and drop all contact with the . She said Travis was devastated, almost to the point of tears, and that she still regrets handling the situation that way. That what Travis needed at the moment was a hug, not to be lashed for his indecision, his inability to see the for what she is.

Knowing more about how Sky responded to Travis about the does help to understand why he felt he had to go underground about not exiling the from his life. Yes, the tried to drive a wedge between Travis and the Hughes. but where she failed at that, Sky succeeded in the sense that Travis felt he couldn't turn to them to reality test about the when he was most in need of doing so. Somehow I bet Sky knows that, and knowing it caused her both pain and regret.

 

[geevee]

The borderline in my sons life tried driving a wedge between my son and his own grandmother. Would call her crying, asking for "advice" and "guidance". Spinning all sorts of stories. It actually made my own mother question her own grandson for several months. Don't be too harsh on the Hughes. They got fooled. Just like Travis. Like my mother. It's hard to explain.
But read the emails the Hughes replied to Travis too. It's in their book. Travis wasn't mad at them so I'm not going to be either.

I can appreciate your feelings given your experience with a borderline, I'd like to think the book was atonement but when it comes with a financial benefit, I have a hard time seeing it in such light, it just feels too opportunistic to me.

 

[geevee]

I think Chris genuinely loved Travis, wanted the best for him, and was able to accept Travis for who he was. I also get the sense neither saw each other as equals. Chris seemed more a big brother figure, someone Travis looked up to, and whose respect Travis felt he had to earn. I don't think Sky is a bad person, and I don't believe she's tried to profit off TA's death. Completely IMO and based only on what little of their long relationship we know about, I think Sky believed she was helping Travis. My guess is she didn't understand that what she called blunt could feel harsh and judgmental to those on the receiving end.

She writes in their book about the one time she regretted what she said to Travis. He approached her in June 2007 about the , and she said she went off, telling him in no uncertain terms that he should run the other way and drop all contact with the . She said Travis was devastated, almost to the point of tears, and that she still regrets handling the situation that way. That what Travis needed at the moment was a hug, not to be lashed for his indecision, his inability to see the for what she is.

Knowing more about how Sky responded to Travis about the does help to understand why he felt he had to go underground about not exiling the from his life. Yes, the tried to drive a wedge between Travis and the Hughes. but where she failed at that, Sky succeeded in the sense that Travis felt he couldn't turn to them to reality test about the when he was most in need of doing so. Somehow I bet Sky knows that, and knowing it caused her both pain and regret.

I wish I could be as charitable as you, Hope, maybe some day.

 

[Hope4More]

About Sky and Travis and commitment, further down the road. I think Travis was on the verge of proposing to Lisa in early 2008. He went ring shopping. Lisa unsubtly mentioned an engagement in February. Sky knew Travis was closer to making that kind of commitment than he had been since he proposed to Linda Ballard. And then....out of nowhere, Travis told Sky that he had a dream about Mimi, who he had to that point only socialized with in FHE group activities.

Sky did ask him--are you sure about this interest in Mimi? Are you sure you are not trying to blow up what you have with Lisa out of fear? But with one denial by Travis, her immediate advice was to "kick (Lisa) to the curb" and to go after Mimi. Especially given that she was acutely aware of his problem with commitment, IMO that was curiously terrible advice, and again IMO, the sense I get is that Sky favored Mimi on the spot because she knew Mimi was Mormon aristocracy, not because she had thought through what might be best for Travis, or why he was looking for permission to drop Lisa to go chasing after a dream.

 

[Hope4More]

I wish I could be as charitable as you, Hope, maybe some day.

Pfffftttt.

 

[TexMex]

About Sky and Travis and commitment, further down the road. I think Travis was on the verge of proposing to Lisa in early 2008. He went ring shopping. Lisa unsubtly mentioned an engagement in February. Sky knew Travis was closer to making that kind of commitment than he had been since he proposed to Linda Ballard. And then....out of nowhere, Travis told Sky that he had a dream about Mimi, who he had to that point only socialized with in FHE group activities.

Sky did ask him--are you sure about this interest in Mimi? Are you sure you are not trying to blow up what you have with Lisa out of fear? But with one denial by Travis, her immediate advice was to "kick (Lisa) to the curb" and to go after Mimi. Especially given that she was acutely aware of his problem with commitment, IMO that was curiously terrible advice, and again IMO, the sense I get is that Sky favored Mimi on the spot because she knew Mimi was Mormon aristocracy, not because she had thought through what might be best for Travis, or why he was looking for permission to drop Lisa to go chasing after a dream.

IMO Sky knew Lisa was too young for Travis. Mimi was more age appropriate. Jmo but an almost 30 year old man shouldn't be dating 19 year olds.

 

[Hope4More]

IMO Sky knew Lisa was too young for Travis. Mimi was more age appropriate. Jmo but an almost 30 year old man shouldn't be dating 19 year olds.

You've read the texts, so you know Travis was very aware of the drawbacks of dating women that young. In his world, though, his choices were extremely limited. Mormon women marry young. He didn't. Mimi was exceptional, to be close to his age (or same age?) and unmarried, and Travis at times seemed compelled at times to wonder if something was off about her that she hadn't married yet.

We can only have opinions, but based on the texts (very limited info) I don't think it was Lisa's age that made Sky leap to the idea of Mimi.

 

[TexMex]

You've read the texts, so you know Travis was very aware of the drawbacks of dating women that young. In his world, though, his choices were extremely limited. Mormon women marry young. He didn't. Mimi was exceptional, to be close to his age (or same age?) and unmarried, and Travis at times seemed compelled at times to wonder if something was off about her that she hadn't married yet.

We can only have opinions, but based on the texts (very limited info) I don't think it was Lisa's age that made Sky leap to the idea of Mimi.

My sense is if Travis told Sky he was trying to decide btwn, as wife material, A) an immature 19 year old girl he'd already cheated on and broken up with twice and B) an age appropriate woman from a well respected family....Sky would advise choosing B
The Lisa romance wasn't going to work. Too much had happened plus she wasn't ready to marry.

 

[Hope4More]

My sense is if Travis told Sky he was trying to decide btwn, as wife material, A) an immature 19 year old girl he'd already cheated on and broken up with twice and B) an age appropriate woman from a well respected family....Sky would advise choosing B
The Lisa romance wasn't going to work. Too much had happened plus she wasn't ready to marry.

Re-read the February texts, if you can stand it (I know I can't. ). Lisa was ready to marry him. One of the most relevant points in the January 2007 emails, though, is what Travis says about his ability to commit. He couldn't. He loved Deanna, everything about their relationship felt good and right to him, and to use his words, knowing the pain he caused her by not marrying her was almost too much for him to bear. And yet, he could not bring himself to marry her. If not Deanna, then not Lisa. He came close, then tried to destroy his chances with her, and when she forgave him, he reached for the Mimi dream. He tortured himself in April and May about Lisa, but I very much doubt he would have committed to her had she magically made herself available to him.

And Mimi? He couldn't even be himself around her, as Sky and many of his other friends soon realized, given that Travis sent group texts to ask advice about virtually every word he struggled over whether to say to Mimi or not.

 

[Hope4More]

Please cross your fingers for my DH. I get to vote for him tomorrow in our primary (what a weird feeling), here's hoping enough others do too to get him elected.

 

[TexMex]

Re-read the February texts, if you can stand it (I know I can't. ). Lisa was ready to marry him. One of the most relevant points in the January 2007 emails, though, is what Travis says about his ability to commit. He couldn't. He loved Deanna, everything about their relationship felt good and right to him, and to use his words, knowing the pain he caused her by not marrying her was almost too much for him to bear. And yet, he could not bring himself to marry her. If not Deanna, then not Lisa. He came close, then tried to destroy his chances with her, and when she forgave him, he reached for the Mimi dream. He tortured himself in April and May about Lisa, but I very much doubt he would have committed to her had she magically made herself available to him.

And Mimi? He couldn't even be himself around her, as Sky and many of his other friends soon realized, given that Travis sent group texts to ask advice about virtually every word he struggled over whether to say to Mimi or not.

Feb 08 texts?