Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #7

[GigiG]

You guys are making me want to make a pilgrimage to TX, just for the good eats!

 

[RickshawFan]

From COA:




Per COA FAQ:


Since JA's request for Conference & Briefing Schedule was denied, I'm guessing (1) they do not intend to allow any special extensions of time for scheduling of briefs, and (2) don't anticipate appeal issues being all that complex since it was definitely a long trial. Do love seeing that "DENIED" though, will never get old...

Well, is this ever lovely news! I'll bet the has broken her other pinky slamming walls at the news that her case is very ordinary and not deserving of special treatment like extensions or "management conferences" (aka excuses for to get in front of the news media by hook or by crook). Bwahaha, now the media can focus on her cuffs for wedding rings with a gift of shackles in lieu of a bridal ankle bracelet. The Perryville Princess is, so to speak, having the time of her life, isn't she? Now that the new arrival honeymoon period is over, reality tends to set in...... I wonder if she'll get the "7-year itch" in the next month or two? Maybe she'll file for divorce from the warden? A period of separation?

I'm thinking should be thankful her request for special treatment has been denied. A yes vote might have provoked envious retaliation from her prison consorts.

 

[salberg7]

Well, is this ever lovely news! I'll bet the has broken her other pinky slamming walls at the news that her case is very ordinary and not deserving of special treatment like extensions or "management conferences" (aka excuses for to get in front of the news media by hook or by crook). Bwahaha, now the media can focus on her cuffs for wedding rings with a gift of shackles in lieu of a bridal ankle bracelet. The Perryville Princess is, so to speak, having the time of her life, isn't she? Now that the new arrival honeymoon period is over, reality tends to set in...... I wonder if she'll get the "7-year itch" in the next month or two? Maybe she'll file for divorce from the warden? A period of separation?

I'm thinking should be thankful her request for special treatment has been denied. A yes vote might have provoked envious retaliation from her prison consorts.

Indeed! Relegated to just another ordinary defendant. Probably denied as the COA is already quite familiar with the case already, due to her unprecedented request to testify in secrecy. Her prior behavior is coming back to bite the killer in her butt!
I'll bet she is steaming mad right now.

 

[Hope4More]

Indeed! Relegated to just another ordinary defendant. Probably denied as the COA is already quite familiar with the case already, due to her unprecedented request to testify in secrecy. Her prior behavior is coming back to bite the killer in her butt!
I'll bet she is steaming mad right now.

I think the request was denied purely on the merits- or lack thereof. Yes, the trial was lengthy, as is the trial record, but the COA apparently doesn't anticipate her appeal will raise issues complex enough (or at all) to warrant special consideration.

The problem for the is that the post- JSS legal system has no interest whatsoever in her or in her behavior, one way or another. She's just one more convicted murderer whose attorneys will raise predictable issues for appeal, an appeal, predictably, that will be denied.

Maybe just in time for Christmas after all.

 

[EquallyDivided]

I think the request was denied purely on the merits- or lack thereof. Yes, the trial was lengthy, as is the trial record, but the COA apparently doesn't anticipate her appeal will raise issues complex enough (or at all) to warrant special consideration.

The problem for the is that the post- JSS legal system has no interest whatsoever in her or in her behavior, one way or another. She's just one more convicted murderer whose attorneys will raise predictable issues for appeal, an appeal, predictably, that will be denied.

Maybe just in time for Christmas after all.

And now comes the best part. When she becomes aware of her dwindling "fame". Just another orange jumpsuit in a cement building full of orange jumpsuits. Nobody cares, hope becomes fleeting and support is non-existent.

Ahhhhhhhhhhh.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

 

[Steve44]

I think the request was denied purely on the merits- or lack thereof. Yes, the trial was lengthy, as is the trial record, but the COA apparently doesn't anticipate her appeal will raise issues complex enough (or at all) to warrant special consideration.

The problem for the is that the post- JSS legal system has no interest whatsoever in her or in her behavior, one way or another. She's just one more convicted murderer whose attorneys will raise predictable issues for appeal, an appeal, predictably, that will be denied.

Maybe just in time for Christmas after all.

It looks like her first attempt to manipulate the system has failed; that of having things on her schedule and to proceed at her pace.

May not be home for Christmas this year, though a Christmas miracle may not be wholly out of her reach, should she wake up on that day and realize she is home.

 

[illyana]

I’ve seen enough. Help me flush my system of this sociopath.

I have driven through Yreka many times. It’s pronounced “Why-Reka”, not “Eureka.” I’ve eaten at restaurants she used to work at, by accident, including the "Mexican restaurant at the north end of town." It’s a good restaurant.

This whole part of the country from Redding up to Portland along the Pacific is one of the most beautiful, peaceful places in the world. It’s a good part of America. We don’t have the ugly tensions and crimes of the East Coast or the South. But we have a dark side too, from the small county police forces dealing with too many disappearances to the violent pot farms that are, thankfully, becoming part of the past as legalization and sensibility comes in.

The convicted murderer lived a short drive from Mount Shasta. Let’s put the New Age stuff aside. That’s a sacred mountain in the Native American tradition and when you look at it you can see why. Drive by it on the I5, it looms up large and godlike, alone and isolated and covered with snow. That is why even to this day conspiracy theories talk about secret bases of aliens and other nonsense. But I see it as a symbol of God, in a trial famous for the saying that God is Not Here. It’s sad that personality flaws can blind you so much, that you can’t see the world for that it is. If you’re a narcissistic sociopath, you don’t see anything but yourself. But God is right there, Jodi. You drove by that sign a hundred times.

I watched the interrogation and the trial and still know nothing about Travis. His words come in once in a while, a ghostly presence, but mostly it’s all about Jodi, Jodi, Jodi. Her narcissism is supreme. She can’t interpret anything but as how it relates to her. Her ego is infantile. The world revolves around her. Of course she will waive her rights and talk to police. Of course she will go on the stand and give her side. The only reason she didn’t fire her own lawyers and represent herself is that she’s lazy, intellectually and morally so. So much easier to manipulate others to do the work for you.

JA is clever and cunning but I would not call her smart. True intelligence is a cut above. But she was smarter than say that slack-jawed fool in Florida who programmed his own name and address into the GPS unit as well as the murder victim’s. JA at least tried to cover her tracks with her foolish gas can purchases and so on. She of course inserted herself into the investigation immediately. But she is what she is: a high school dropout with a severe personality flaw that saw her manipulating men as young as fifteen or sixteen.

Let’s give props to Travis Alexander, who struck me as just another guy. That’s not faint praise, that’s reality. He’s a dude. The real Travis leaks through, here and there. In the voice tapes, especially. My heart goes out to him. A madwoman murdered him through no fault of his own.

Men are socially reinforced that “nailing chicks is good” and the more sex you get, the better you are. It validates your ego, and the culture has only grown more extreme with this message, though it’s been there for a long, long time. The truth is a lot harsher. Sex is overrated and just one component of a real relationship. Yet the culture (especially young male culture) celebrates sexual conquest. Bad women like JA use that fact, most women—pretty much every other woman in Travis’ short, young life—do not. There’s a reason why the “Circe” myth exists.

I’ve watched the JA police interrogation tapes, they have fascinated me as the most clear-cut example of a female psychopath (somehow given the more socially acceptable label of “Borderline”) in action. The trial videos I never watched, mainly because I find court proceedings dull and the same thing

But in the last couple weeks, I started watching the court videos. Not all of it: not the graphic stuff and not the ancillary witnesses. Mainly her counsel Nurmi, and then Martinez and his devastating cross-examinations. I don’t think I need to give more praise to Juan Martinez. His recent appearance on Tricia’s show cemented his intelligence and eloquence.

As for Nurmi, I don’t think people should criticize him. The adversarial system requires someone with knowledge of the law stand up for the defendant. That unhappy job fell to him. Reading his comments after the trial explained a lot to me. Realize he is hamstrung by a narcissist client that wants to grandstand, so up on the stand she goes and his case is done, it’s over. Any competent prosecutor can pick her apart, as Juan Martinez did, mercilessly. Deservedly.

What’s he supposed to do? I have no issue with Nurmi. The attacks on Travis—violent guy, pedophile—he pursued with such perfunctory duty all originated from JA.

I realize this post breaks open no new ground, simply repeats and summarizes the conclusion many others have already come to long ago. So let’s see if I can add a few new ideas:

* JA’s use of language is so stunningly bizarre, so carefully mimicked from New Age/feelgood/Prepaid Legal/Multilevel marketing jargon, it’s eerie. Dr. Robert Hare, the world-renowned expert on psychopaths often remarks on how they just imitate the milieu around them, like chameleons. She does this constantly. If you are interested in psychopaths as fictional characters, learning their dialogue, as I am, this is the best source material I’ve ever seen.

* Alyce LaViolette is nothing but a paid liar. Makes me ill. She hurts feminism. She should be hounded off the national stage. Shameful. JA is so completely unlike a genuine victim of domestic violence that it’s not even funny. Meanwhile as she is taking money for this trial, real women and girls are suffering are being beaten, forced into prostitution, you name it. ALV is filthy.

* At the end, I think JA meant to flee to Mexico and then to Costa Rica, where she had an exchange student relationship.

I don’t have any other insights then this. I would add this cautionary note:

Female psychopathy is a real thing, and it manifests in different forms than the male because of culture. We must be careful when rushing to judgment against any man accused of abusing his children or beating his spouse or whatever, because a clever female psychopath can and will use every tool and lie available to get what she wants.

Imagine if JA and TA got married, had children. Then five years later she accuses him of abusing their children. This is why we need a real, strong justice system, with discovery, due process, and strong representation for the accused—which Nurmi did.

I commend everyone in this case except the defendant. May you never see Shasta again Jodi, you don’t deserve it.

 

[Hope4More]

It looks like her first attempt to manipulate the system has failed; that of having things on her schedule and to proceed at her pace.

May not be home for Christmas this year, though a Christmas miracle may not be wholly out of her reach, should she wake up on that day and realize she is home.

Actually, the has a perfect record of trying & failing to manipulate the legal system, at least outside of JSS's courtroom.

Pretrial-- appeal to COA to prevent State from putting DP on table. Denied review.

Trial-- DT's argues to the COA to keep courtroom closed for secret testimony, FAILS. The AZ Supreme Court refuses review.

Trial- Both the COA and the ASC refuse to hear DT's appeal between trials that the DP should be taken off the table.

Post-trial. Appellate attys argue that the entire COA is biased and should be disqualified from hearing appeal--- DENIED.

Appellate attorneys argue that JM shouldn't be allowed to publish his book without them vetting it first, and that the AG shouldn't have access to sealed trial docs. DENIED.

This latest failed attempt is her 8th. She's 0-8.

 

[Hope4More]

I’ve seen enough. Help me flush my system of this sociopath.

I have driven through Yreka many times. It’s pronounced “Why-Reka”, not “Eureka.” I’ve eaten at restaurants she used to work at, by accident, including the "Mexican restaurant at the north end of town." It’s a good restaurant.

This whole part of the country from Redding up to Portland along the Pacific is one of the most beautiful, peaceful places in the world. It’s a good part of America. We don’t have the ugly tensions and crimes of the East Coast or the South. But we have a dark side too, from the small county police forces dealing with too many disappearances to the violent pot farms that are, thankfully, becoming part of the past as legalization and sensibility comes in.

The convicted murderer lived a short drive from Mount Shasta. Let’s put the New Age stuff aside. That’s a sacred mountain in the Native American tradition and when you look at it you can see why. Drive by it on the I5, it looms up large and godlike, alone and isolated and covered with snow. That is why even to this day conspiracy theories talk about secret bases of aliens and other nonsense. But I see it as a symbol of God, in a trial famous for the saying that God is Not Here. It’s sad that personality flaws can blind you so much, that you can’t see the world for that it is. If you’re a narcissistic sociopath, you don’t see anything but yourself. But God is right there, Jodi. You drove by that sign a hundred times.

I watched the interrogation and the trial and still know nothing about Travis. His words come in once in a while, a ghostly presence, but mostly it’s all about Jodi, Jodi, Jodi. Her narcissism is supreme. She can’t interpret anything but as how it relates to her. Her ego is infantile. The world revolves around her. Of course she will waive her rights and talk to police. Of course she will go on the stand and give her side. The only reason she didn’t fire her own lawyers and represent herself is that she’s lazy, intellectually and morally so. So much easier to manipulate others to do the work for you.

JA is clever and cunning but I would not call her smart. True intelligence is a cut above. But she was smarter than say that slack-jawed fool in Florida who programmed his own name and address into the GPS unit as well as the murder victim’s. JA at least tried to cover her tracks with her foolish gas can purchases and so on. She of course inserted herself into the investigation immediately. But she is what she is: a high school dropout with a severe personality flaw that saw her manipulating men as young as fifteen or sixteen.

Let’s give props to Travis Alexander, who struck me as just another guy. That’s not faint praise, that’s reality. He’s a dude. The real Travis leaks through, here and there. In the voice tapes, especially. My heart goes out to him. A madwoman murdered him through no fault of his own.

Men are socially reinforced that “nailing chicks is good” and the more sex you get, the better you are. It validates your ego, and the culture has only grown more extreme with this message, though it’s been there for a long, long time. The truth is a lot harsher. Sex is overrated and just one component of a real relationship. Yet the culture (especially young male culture) celebrates sexual conquest. Bad women like JA use that fact, most women—pretty much every other woman in Travis’ short, young life—do not. There’s a reason why the “Circe” myth exists.

I’ve watched the JA police interrogation tapes, they have fascinated me as the most clear-cut example of a female psychopath (somehow given the more socially acceptable label of “Borderline&#8221 in action. The trial videos I never watched, mainly because I find court proceedings dull and the same thing

But in the last couple weeks, I started watching the court videos. Not all of it: not the graphic stuff and not the ancillary witnesses. Mainly her counsel Nurmi, and then Martinez and his devastating cross-examinations. I don’t think I need to give more praise to Juan Martinez. His recent appearance on Tricia’s show cemented his intelligence and eloquence.

As for Nurmi, I don’t think people should criticize him. The adversarial system requires someone with knowledge of the law stand up for the defendant. That unhappy job fell to him. Reading his comments after the trial explained a lot to me. Realize he is hamstrung by a narcissist client that wants to grandstand, so up on the stand she goes and his case is done, it’s over. Any competent prosecutor can pick her apart, as Juan Martinez did, mercilessly. Deservedly.

What’s he supposed to do? I have no issue with Nurmi. The attacks on Travis—violent guy, pedophile—he pursued with such perfunctory duty all originated from JA.

I realize this post breaks open no new ground, simply repeats and summarizes the conclusion many others have already come to long ago. So let’s see if I can add a few new ideas:

* JA’s use of language is so stunningly bizarre, so carefully mimicked from New Age/feelgood/Prepaid Legal/Multilevel marketing jargon, it’s eerie. Dr. Robert Hare, the world-renowned expert on psychopaths often remarks on how they just imitate the milieu around them, like chameleons. She does this constantly. If you are interested in psychopaths as fictional characters, learning their dialogue, as I am, this is the best source material I’ve ever seen.

* Alyce LaViolette is nothing but a paid liar. Makes me ill. She hurts feminism. She should be hounded off the national stage. Shameful. JA is so completely unlike a genuine victim of domestic violence that it’s not even funny. Meanwhile as she is taking money for this trial, real women and girls are suffering are being beaten, forced into prostitution, you name it. ALV is filthy.

* At the end, I think JA meant to flee to Mexico and then to Costa Rica, where she had an exchange student relationship.

I don’t have any other insights then this. I would add this cautionary note:

Female psychopathy is a real thing, and it manifests in different forms than the male because of culture. We must be careful when rushing to judgment against any man accused of abusing his children or beating his spouse or whatever, because a clever female psychopath can and will use every tool and lie available to get what she wants.

Imagine if JA and TA got married, had children. Then five years later she accuses him of abusing their children. This is why we need a real, strong justice system, with discovery, due process, and strong representation for the accused—which Nurmi did.

I commend everyone in this case except the defendant. May you never see Shasta again Jodi, you don’t deserve it.

I can agree with many of your points, but not that: trials ( "court proceedings" ) are dull, or that Travis was just an ordinary dude, or that sex was in fact relevant to his murder, or that Nurmi is blameless and shouldn't be criticized ("just doing his job").

There is plenty to read about the real Travis, including the autobiography he began and his siblings completed, in his name, and the book written by his friends, the Hughes.

 

[MaLou]

I've got the fire started. Cooking some chicken for fajitas for supper then putting on the briskets to cook all night

View attachment 94873

View attachment 94874

I'm a vegetarian and can still appreciate this post!

 

[Steve44]

I’ve seen enough. Help me flush my system of this sociopath.

I have driven through Yreka many times. It’s pronounced “Why-Reka”, not “Eureka.” I’ve eaten at restaurants she used to work at, by accident, including the "Mexican restaurant at the north end of town." It’s a good restaurant.

This whole part of the country from Redding up to Portland along the Pacific is one of the most beautiful, peaceful places in the world. It’s a good part of America. We don’t have the ugly tensions and crimes of the East Coast or the South. But we have a dark side too, from the small county police forces dealing with too many disappearances to the violent pot farms that are, thankfully, becoming part of the past as legalization and sensibility comes in.

The convicted murderer lived a short drive from Mount Shasta. Let’s put the New Age stuff aside. That’s a sacred mountain in the Native American tradition and when you look at it you can see why. Drive by it on the I5, it looms up large and godlike, alone and isolated and covered with snow. That is why even to this day conspiracy theories talk about secret bases of aliens and other nonsense. But I see it as a symbol of God, in a trial famous for the saying that God is Not Here. It’s sad that personality flaws can blind you so much, that you can’t see the world for that it is. If you’re a narcissistic sociopath, you don’t see anything but yourself. But God is right there, Jodi. You drove by that sign a hundred times.

I watched the interrogation and the trial and still know nothing about Travis. His words come in once in a while, a ghostly presence, but mostly it’s all about Jodi, Jodi, Jodi. Her narcissism is supreme. She can’t interpret anything but as how it relates to her. Her ego is infantile. The world revolves around her. Of course she will waive her rights and talk to police. Of course she will go on the stand and give her side. The only reason she didn’t fire her own lawyers and represent herself is that she’s lazy, intellectually and morally so. So much easier to manipulate others to do the work for you.

JA is clever and cunning but I would not call her smart. True intelligence is a cut above. But she was smarter than say that slack-jawed fool in Florida who programmed his own name and address into the GPS unit as well as the murder victim’s. JA at least tried to cover her tracks with her foolish gas can purchases and so on. She of course inserted herself into the investigation immediately. But she is what she is: a high school dropout with a severe personality flaw that saw her manipulating men as young as fifteen or sixteen.

Let’s give props to Travis Alexander, who struck me as just another guy. That’s not faint praise, that’s reality. He’s a dude. The real Travis leaks through, here and there. In the voice tapes, especially. My heart goes out to him. A madwoman murdered him through no fault of his own.

Men are socially reinforced that “nailing chicks is good” and the more sex you get, the better you are. It validates your ego, and the culture has only grown more extreme with this message, though it’s been there for a long, long time. The truth is a lot harsher. Sex is overrated and just one component of a real relationship. Yet the culture (especially young male culture) celebrates sexual conquest. Bad women like JA use that fact, most women—pretty much every other woman in Travis’ short, young life—do not. There’s a reason why the “Circe” myth exists.

I’ve watched the JA police interrogation tapes, they have fascinated me as the most clear-cut example of a female psychopath (somehow given the more socially acceptable label of “Borderline&#8221 in action. The trial videos I never watched, mainly because I find court proceedings dull and the same thing

But in the last couple weeks, I started watching the court videos. Not all of it: not the graphic stuff and not the ancillary witnesses. Mainly her counsel Nurmi, and then Martinez and his devastating cross-examinations. I don’t think I need to give more praise to Juan Martinez. His recent appearance on Tricia’s show cemented his intelligence and eloquence.

As for Nurmi, I don’t think people should criticize him. The adversarial system requires someone with knowledge of the law stand up for the defendant. That unhappy job fell to him. Reading his comments after the trial explained a lot to me. Realize he is hamstrung by a narcissist client that wants to grandstand, so up on the stand she goes and his case is done, it’s over. Any competent prosecutor can pick her apart, as Juan Martinez did, mercilessly. Deservedly.

What’s he supposed to do? I have no issue with Nurmi. The attacks on Travis—violent guy, pedophile—he pursued with such perfunctory duty all originated from JA.

I realize this post breaks open no new ground, simply repeats and summarizes the conclusion many others have already come to long ago. So let’s see if I can add a few new ideas:

* JA’s use of language is so stunningly bizarre, so carefully mimicked from New Age/feelgood/Prepaid Legal/Multilevel marketing jargon, it’s eerie. Dr. Robert Hare, the world-renowned expert on psychopaths often remarks on how they just imitate the milieu around them, like chameleons. She does this constantly. If you are interested in psychopaths as fictional characters, learning their dialogue, as I am, this is the best source material I’ve ever seen.

* Alyce LaViolette is nothing but a paid liar. Makes me ill. She hurts feminism. She should be hounded off the national stage. Shameful. JA is so completely unlike a genuine victim of domestic violence that it’s not even funny. Meanwhile as she is taking money for this trial, real women and girls are suffering are being beaten, forced into prostitution, you name it. ALV is filthy.

* At the end, I think JA meant to flee to Mexico and then to Costa Rica, where she had an exchange student relationship.

I don’t have any other insights then this. I would add this cautionary note:

Female psychopathy is a real thing, and it manifests in different forms than the male because of culture. We must be careful when rushing to judgment against any man accused of abusing his children or beating his spouse or whatever, because a clever female psychopath can and will use every tool and lie available to get what she wants.

Imagine if JA and TA got married, had children. Then five years later she accuses him of abusing their children. This is why we need a real, strong justice system, with discovery, due process, and strong representation for the accused—which Nurmi did.

I commend everyone in this case except the defendant. May you never see Shasta again Jodi, you don’t deserve it.

Nice post, but a couple of things I don't understand. You say you want help flushing her from your system, is that a literal request for help, or do you mean the help is implicit in our reading the post, and therefore in reality in just your writing of it?

You say you're interested in psychopaths as fictional characters, they seem to be real enough, so I take it that you mean to use the metaphor as a model to gain insight into their psychology? If so, are you satisfied with that level of insight or are you interested in exploring their psychology further?

I think what interested me in this case was that both her psychology and her behavior was plain for all to see, to such an extent that the contrast between the two became clear. I took this as an opportunity to see deeper into her psychology than is normally possible with a psychopath, to use all of her behavior, both what she wanted seen and what she didn't want seen, to gain insight into a psychology that would account for both. In the process I think I've pulled on a thread or two which seem promising. Let me know if you want to discuss further.

 

[TrialWatcher]

I think she was going to flee. But the items in her car seem to lend some validity to her story she told her parents. IMO it was a goodbye tour. She was either going to be arrested, try and cross the border or kill herself. But first she'd see the exes and spend the night for free on her way to Mexico
IMO she wasn't going on a crime spree. The gun was registered to her so IMO she was planning suicide or suicide by cop

The goodbye tour - I can buy that theory. I think a vicious, goodbye to The Hughes may have been part of that trip - then a flee attempt. Suicide? No. She may have had very dark moments in the past but her supreme narcissism makes her value her own life above all others. Even after being convicted, she herself dismisses suicide possibilities.

[video=youtube;jLz6eM83F3o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLz6eM83F3o[/video]

From three minutes in - above. Arias dismisses suicide as a possibility.

Whilst I agree with some of Madeleine's observations on Arias, watching that video shows why she is an interesting study from a psychological perspective. She is jaw-droppingly brazen. Arias isn't a criminal genius. Nothing about her is memorable, original or fascinating in an everyday context - sure. What is remarkable is her ability to not care how stupid she sounds or looks. Then shamefacedly push whatever risible point she is making forward. She is insanely, inanely arrogant and smug. A more annoying person, I've never seen take the stand in a trial.

 

[Steve44]

The goodbye tour - I can buy that theory. I think a vicious, goodbye to The Hughes may have been part of that trip - then a flee attempt. Suicide? No. She may have had very dark moments in the past but her supreme narcissism makes her value her own life above all others. Even after being convicted, she herself dismisses suicide possibilities.

[video=youtube;jLz6eM83F3o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLz6eM83F3o[/video]

From three minutes in - above. Arias dismisses suicide as a possibility.

Whilst I agree with some of Madeleine's observations on Arias, watching that video shows why she is an interesting study from a psychological perspective. She is jaw-droppingly brazen. Arias isn't a criminal genius. Nothing about her is memorable, original or fascinating in an everyday context - sure. What is remarkable is her ability to not care how stupid she sounds or looks. Then shamefacedly push whatever risible point she is making forward. She is insanely, inanely arrogant and smug. A more annoying person, I've never seen take the stand in a trial.

She often contradicts herself, yet it's always the latest version that is supposed to, somehow, be perfectly believable. She doesn't seem to get that constantly changing her story makes everything she says unbelievable, including the most recent.

As an example, look at what she says in the beginning about why she is doing the interview at this particular time, she says it's because she previously made a commitment to it, and wanted to prove she is trustworthy with her word, apparently because for some reason she's not widely believed. Moments later she says whether or not she is believed by the public is not important to her...well, if that's true, then it can't be the reason she's giving the interview, which is what she said just a moment earlier....

 

[Steve44]

The goodbye tour - I can buy that theory. I think a vicious, goodbye to The Hughes may have been part of that trip - then a flee attempt. Suicide? No. She may have had very dark moments in the past but her supreme narcissism makes her value her own life above all others. Even after being convicted, she herself dismisses suicide possibilities.

[video=youtube;jLz6eM83F3o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLz6eM83F3o[/video]

From three minutes in - above. Arias dismisses suicide as a possibility.

Whilst I agree with some of Madeleine's observations on Arias, watching that video shows why she is an interesting study from a psychological perspective. She is jaw-droppingly brazen. Arias isn't a criminal genius. Nothing about her is memorable, original or fascinating in an everyday context - sure. What is remarkable is her ability to not care how stupid she sounds or looks. Then shamefacedly push whatever risible point she is making forward. She is insanely, inanely arrogant and smug. A more annoying person, I've never seen take the stand in a trial.

Also when asked what she would have done differently that day, she says her best option would have been to go left instead of right and run out of there. Yet on cross, when Juan offered her that very option she said it would have resulted in Travis killing her, so it's gone from the worst option to the best option.

The only way to resolve this contradiction is to assume that it was never an option at all, because she didn't want to run out, she wanted to stay there and kill him.

And WTF is she trying to prove with that makeup?

 

[TrialWatcher]

She often contradicts herself, yet it's always the latest version that is supposed to, somehow, be perfectly believable. She doesn't seem to get that constantly changing her story makes everything she says unbelievable, including the most recent.

As an example, look at what she says in the beginning about why she is doing the interview at this particular time, she says it's because she previously made a commitment to it, and wanted to prove she is trustworthy with her word, apparently because for some reason she's not widely believed. Moments later she says whether or not she is believed by the public is not important to her...well, if that's true, then it can't be the reason she's giving the interview, which is what she said just a moment earlier....

Absolutely. Sne swaps out lies, trading obscure, crazy points for other ( detrimentally opposite) crazy obscure lies. Then presents them as though everyone hasn't just witnessed her rubbing out lines in the sand. The worst example of this was her chillingly evil final words re suddenly remember slitting Travis' throat. Watching her psychopathy play out in court was more than mere car crash TV.

Also when asked what she would have done differently that day, she says her best option would have been to go left instead of right and run out of there. Yet on cross, when Juan offered her that very option she said it would have resulted in Travis killing her, so it's gone from the worst option to the best option.

The only way to resolve this contradiction is to assume that it was never an option at all, because she didn't want to run out, she wanted to stay there and kill him.

And WTF is she trying to prove with that makeup?

Great point on the stupidity of her option justifications. Arias' face leaks smug smiles throughout that interview. She can't contain how delighted she is at her efforts to dupe people. Duper's smile betraying her best efforts. In court, the jury saw every one of those leaked expressions. As for the makeup? Hahaha. What about the hair? Could it have anymore product on it? Oh, and the soft sweaters in those post trial interviews? Convincing anyone that she was a soft, cuddly murderer? Maybe the foreman on the first jury and the silly hold-out on the second? No other sane viewer.

PS: What a beautiful photograph Illyana posted above

 

[Steve44]

Absolutely. Sne swaps out lies, trading obscure, crazy points for other ( detrimentally opposite) crazy obscure lies. Then presents them as though everyone hasn't just witnessed her rubbing out lines in the sand. The worst example of this was her chillingly evil final words re suddenly remember slitting Travis' throat. Watching her psychopathy play out in court was more than mere car crash TV.




Great point on the stupidity of her option justifications. Arias' face leaks smug smiles throughout that interview. She can't contain how delighted she is at her efforts to dupe people. Duper's smile betraying her best efforts. In court, the jury saw every one of those leaked expressions. As for the makeup? Hahaha. What about the hair? Could it have anymore product on it? Oh, and the soft sweaters in those post trial interviews? Convincing anyone that she was a soft, cuddly murderer? Maybe the foreman on the first jury and the silly hold-out on the second? No other sane viewer.

PS: What a beautiful photograph Illyana posted above

And her insistence throughout all of her interviews that her stripes and chains not be shown, as if it would make any real difference; everyone knew her prisoner status, so why pretend?

No real reason, but indicative of her real intentions in giving all of those interviews: just as the cameramen would conceal her stripes and chains through strategic filming, she would conceal her guilt through strategic words and lies. Far from being an effort to reveal the truth, as might be assumed, they were clearly an effort to conceal the truth, both visibly, and audibly.

 

[GigiG]

Not sure if this was posted earlier, or If I just missed it.

Interview with Juan Martinez:

http://www.rebeccacosta.com/the-costa-report.htm

 

[Wing Ding]

Arias' face leaks smug smiles throughout that interview. She can't contain how delighted she is at her efforts to dupe people.

* Those involuntary little smiles are what I call the liar's smile. As in they know they have no credible answer for the question just asked of them, but they'll still give you their best b.s. answer anyway. That guilty, liar's smile almost always says, "ok... ya got me. But how 'bout this...?"

And, yes, they are delighted in thinking they just excused away or deflected another pointed question with yet another clever, nimble, rEdiculous, non-sensical answer. They really don't know how pathetic they look to the thinking public.

There are times when those sorts of smiles are offered to gain someone's trust and to say "hey, look... it's really simple", but in Arias' case it's not believable. It's a giveaway.

 

[Steve44]

Psychopathic Emotional Paradox: Real vs. Fake

It's said that psychopaths do not feel emotions, they can only imitate them. A popular way of putting this is to say they cannot feel the music of emotions, but can only learn the words. This aspect of psychopathy may account for, or be tied closely to, their lack of empathy, or lack of conscience. The psychopaths display of emotions is thought to be just that, a display, an act, used to manipulate others and take advantage of the fact that others do feel true emotions, and can be influenced by them.

There is undoubtedly some truth to this, but how then does one account for the brutal and raw emotions, obviously real, which are apparent in the way Arias killed Travis? Importantly, this emotion, as real as it may have been, was not followed by any sense of guilt, remorse, or responsibility.

Never the less, it is an apparent paradox, and I think attempting to resolve it may give a deeper insight into the psychopathic mind.

I think the key to this paradox is the very key to the psychopathic mind. They undoubtedly have real emotions, but they are emotions completely divorced from the social context in which emotions are traditionally believed to exist, and are thought to depend upon.

The psychopathic mind is similar in structure and function to a normal mind, the key difference is that it exists in a profound isolation, one that disallows any real connection, any empathy. It is locked completely within itself. Any social interaction is then necessarily superficial, and eventually, perhaps even naturally, becomes manipulative.

Conscience develops in a normal mind through identification, when the developing mind sees itself more and more reflected in others. This process is missing in a psychopathic mind.

 

[Steve44]

Psychopathic Emotional Paradox: Real vs. Fake

It's said that psychopaths do not feel emotions, they can only imitate them. A popular way of putting this is to say they cannot feel the music of emotions, but can only learn the words. This aspect of psychopathy may account for, or be tied closely to, their lack of empathy, or lack of conscience. The psychopaths display of emotions is thought to be just that, a display, an act, used to manipulate others and take advantage of the fact that others do feel true emotions, and can be influenced by them.

There is undoubtedly some truth to this, but how then does one account for the brutal and raw emotions, obviously real, which are apparent in the way Arias killed Travis? Importantly, this emotion, as real as it may have been, was not followed by any sense of guilt, remorse, or responsibility.

Never the less, it is an apparent paradox, and I think attempting to resolve it may give a deeper insight into the psychopathic mind.

I think the key to this paradox is the very key to the psychopathic mind. They undoubtedly have real emotions, but they are emotions completely divorced from the social context in which emotions are traditionally believed to exist, and are thought to depend upon.

The psychopathic mind is similar in structure and function to a normal mind, the key difference is that it exists in a profound isolation, one that disallows any real connection, any empathy. It is locked completely within itself. Any social interaction is then necessarily superficial, and eventually, perhaps even naturally, becomes manipulative.

Conscience develops in a normal mind through identification, when the developing mind sees itself more and more reflected in others. This process is missing in a psychopathic mind.

(I could no longer edit the original post, so I'll continue this way)

...so the process of socialization becomes completely different. The psychopathic mind develops intellectually, even emotionally, yet always completely isolated within itself, so socialization in the traditional sense does not take place at all, since that is an interdependent process; minds to mind or mind to minds.

Psychopaths can appear normal because social interaction can be mistaken for socialization. Much of our social life consists of conforming behavior, and a psychopath can appear to be just like anyone else, but the more they act independently the more the differences become apparent.

One more thing about psychopaths and emotions. For the normal mind, emotions are an integral part of social interaction. They modify and are modified by it, and are in fact a form of communication. Psychopaths have a double layer of emotions. The standard layer, which is shared by everyone, and used in the process of social interaction, becomes a superficial layer in psychopaths, because by necessity the primary layer is locked in the isolated part of the mind. There is no such dichotomy in normal minds. Emotion is a form of energy. When an emotion affects the primary layer in a psychopath, it cannot be bled off or modified by outside influences. You recall the single incident when Jodi's parents searched her room after she was caught growing pot as a teenager. That was the only time her parents ever searched her room, yet years later she wouldn't allow them to visit her home with Daryl for fear they would search through her stuff. The emotion that resulted from the original search circulated through her mind unabated for years with nowhere to go and never lost its original intensity.