Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #7

[geevee]

Sister geevee, we posted 3 min apart the same info to sister RickshawFan.:scared:

We are so in sync tonight.

 

[Hope4More]

Given Zach's visit back around 3:00 she either had to have finished (don't think so because he'd have noticed the dog gate in front of the stairs, he did remember how slick the banister was, the gate would have stood out too) or still had her car parked on Bryce for him not to have seen that either - I'll go with our first thoughts - parked on Bryce and didn't put up the dog gate and leave until after Zach left.

I still think there's much merit in the camera time not having been set and the time stamps off by a couple hours. Her morning time changes between her stories is curious, 3:00 is too early, 4:30 is too late - could she have been outside his office window and with the screen removed been able to see what he was watching, at least well enough to have googled it later (and figure out the band but wrong video) to tell Flores after being arrested?

Sister Geevee- After my Mesa and out trek I've concluded the opposite- that the timestamps must be accurate, at least on the shower photos.

The timeframe fits pretty well with her doing what she needed to do to get out, then making it to 27 miles south of Hoover Dam on 93 before calling Ryan.

That she called Ryan knowing she was still in AZ tells me she felt it was more urgent to call right then than to wait until the other side of the dam when she was safely in Nevada, and that suggests to me that if she could have called earlier she would have, and she could have if the timestamps were off.

 

[Hope4More]

Personally, I hope her "supporters" have stolen all money collected for her for any reason.

Supporters to include Aunt Sue. And--- Amen. (Does hoping this make us "haters" ? )

 

[geevee]

I don't think she could have overpowered him if she hadn't already wounded him while he was in the shower. IMO that means she either shot him there or Dr. Horn is correct and she stabbed him there.

I think she stabbed him. One scenario is that she threatened him with the gun to make him sit down and to taunt him, then dropped the gun on purpose to have Travis lunge for it, meanwhile she pulled out the knife and stabbed him, thinking that alone would kill him.

Her gun shot lies were, IMO, tailored to accommodate Flores telling her he believed the gunshot came first. That lie was a whole lot more plausible than explaining 2 ninjas storming into his bathroom and one stabbing him while he was in the shower. More convenient (and melodramatic) to hear a loud pop before being knocked on the head and lapsing gently into unknowing, unseeing, unhearing unconsciousness.

I getcha, I'm not married to either wound being inflicted first and you have a point about her being able to overpower him before inflicting either first. Was it in JM's book that he thought she used her right hand with the knife? That would make it much more possible for her to be able to stab him while still in the shower, with her left the angle would be quite difficult given the narrow confines..

 

[pocketaccent]

1. I don't believe she had any way of knowing who would be there. She hung around Pasadena for hours, IMO timing her arrival well into the night, to minimize the possibility of being seen when she parked on the street (Brice, my guess) and slunk over to TA's house to break in and scout.

2. What she would have seen even just driving by and around the corner was that a car she didn't recognize was parked in the driveway (Enrique's car). She said she thought Zach parked on the street (no Zach car to be seen), or in the garage if he was working on it. From a quick look, then, it was already possible 2 people other than TA were in the house- one unknown, the other Zach if he was working on his car.

Her choice then, whatever time it was, was to wait hours outside until she saw at least the driveway car leave, and that possible second person/car, OR to go on into his house, not knowing who was there.

If she arrived when Travis was awake she either went on in, chancing a roommate hearing her and IMO, Travis loudly freaking and possibly telling her to get out (he didn't know she was coming). Even if she spied on him through the window and concluded the driveway car wasn't a GF's because he was alone, she still wouldn't have known if there was a second person there unless she scouted that out, INSIDE the house.

I think she did just that. I think she waited until she saw the lights go off in his study, then went in, looked into the garage and saw another car she didn't recognize(Zach's rental car), and that she waited again for a short while then snuck upstairs to see who was there and where.

She could figure out one was Zach, because his room wouldn't have changed, and that there was a second roommate. Zach's schedule she probably thought she knew, but she couldn't have known Enrique's.

My guess is she hid until both had left, and then thought the coast was clear for hours, at least. That might have been when she moved her car to his driveway, if she did, and changed plates, if she did there. (If parked facing out, she wouldn't have needed a rear plate).

About the time she arrived...maybe she changed it when she sat in a Yreka jail and began working out details, including her absolute need to maintain that Travis was awake and expecting her, which she "proved" by knowing what video he was watching when she arrived, and when he was watching it, which was not at 3:00AM.

(About the roommates hearing anything. It's just as possible imo she was trying to find out if Zach heard anything during the hour he returned in the afternoon, or if Enrique heard something when he returned -if she was still there , and she had to sneak out (her car couldn't have been in the driveway if so).

So just looking the inconsistency of her statements and why for them, it looks more and more like she arrived at 3 AM (rather than 4:30) then hid in the house, right?

 

[Hope4More]

I getcha, I'm not married to either wound being inflicted first and you have a point about her being able to overpower him before inflicting either first. Was it in JM's book that he thought she used her right hand with the knife? That would make it much more possible for her to be able to stab him while still in the shower, with her left the angle would be quite difficult given the narrow confines..

I'm not married to either, either. . But....the forensics, the first impressions of the crime scene of both Flores and JM, and even her own garbled lies all seem to indicate a violent struggle after the shower.

I still refuse to imagine the scene, and try to keep the words describing it abstract, but there's no way of avoiding the fact that Travis kept on fighting for his life until the very last moments. He WAS strong, was in shape and fit, and after whatever initial shock he might have been in, he had to have known she meant to kill him, and so was fighting for his life, one he very much wanted to keep on living.

He must have been severely wounded in the shower, IMO, for her to have had any chance of overpowering him. (Yes, iirc, JM did say right hand in his book).

 

[geevee]

Sister Geevee- After my Mesa and out trek I've concluded the opposite- that the timestamps must be accurate, at least on the shower photos.

The timeframe fits pretty well with her doing what she needed to do to get out, then making it to 27 miles south of Hoover Dam on 93 before calling Ryan.

That she called Ryan knowing she was still in AZ tells me she felt it was more urgent to call right then than to wait until the other side of the dam when she was safely in Nevada, and that suggests to me that if she could have called earlier she would have, and she could have if the timestamps were off.

I'm still on the fence, flooding the bathroom/walls with water, gathering up clothes/towels, down to the washer, stop in the bathroom, clean the banister with something, wash Travis and shower herself, brush hair and change clothes, gather up what she's taking with her, put the dog gates up and get out of the house before Enrique gets there - all in a half hour, I guess it's possible but seems pretty tight.

Oh, a thought just occurred, unless Travis had done the bedding earlier and had already put them in the dryer, wouldn't she likely have left blood on them moving them to the dryer? There was a smudge or two of blood on the washer and the bathroom faucet had blood on it (presumably from her washing her hands after dumping the clothes in the washer), how could she move freshly washed laundry without transferring something onto it?

 

[geevee]

I'm not married to either, either. . But....the forensics, the first impressions of the crime scene of both Flores and JM, and even her own garbled lies all seem to indicate a violent struggle after the shower.

I still refuse to imagine the scene, and try to keep the words describing it abstract, but there's no way of avoiding the fact that Travis kept on fighting for his life until the very last moments. He WAS strong, was in shape and fit, and after whatever initial shock he might have been in, he had to have known she meant to kill him, and so was fighting for his life, one he very much wanted to keep on living.

He must have been severely wounded in the shower, IMO, for her to have had any chance of overpowering him. (Yes, iirc, JM did say right hand in his book).

Oh yes; I've studied the crime scene pics quite well and agree he put up a very strong fight, from one end of the bathroom to the other (sorry if that's too graphic), I still marvel that she was able to manage it without having shot him first, but a knife blow while trapped in the shower was likely all she needed to disable him.

 

[pocketaccent]

I'm still on the fence, flooding the bathroom/walls with water, gathering up clothes/towels, down to the washer, stop in the bathroom, clean the banister with something, wash Travis and shower herself, brush hair and change clothes, gather up what she's taking with her, put the dog gates up and get out of the house before Enrique gets there - all in a half hour, I guess it's possible but seems pretty tight.

Oh, a thought just occurred, unless Travis had done the bedding earlier and had already put them in the dryer, wouldn't she likely have left blood on them moving them to the dryer? There was a smudge or two of blood on the washer and the bathroom faucet had blood on it (presumably from her washing her hands after dumping the clothes in the washer), how could she move freshly washed laundry without transferring something onto it?

What do you think? (rough draft)


-Drag, coup de grace, shove into the shower - at least 10 minutes, maybe 15 min. Travis was heavy, small shower stall to manuever
-Wash him and herself - 5 min
-Wipe walls - 2 min
-Glance and delete photos - 3 min
-Gather up clothes and towels - 2 min
-Go downstairs and start the washer - 3 min
-Wash hands, put on bandaid - 3 min
-Take bloody clothes off, get dressed - 3 min
-Pack up knife, gun, her stuff - 3 min
-Wipe down bannisters - 2 min
- Put up doggie gates - 2 min

Total: 38-43 min
Please add anything missing, subtract, or revise.

 

[Hope4More]

I'm still on the fence, flooding the bathroom/walls with water, gathering up clothes/towels, down to the washer, stop in the bathroom, clean the banister with something, wash Travis and shower herself, brush hair and change clothes, gather up what she's taking with her, put the dog gates up and get out of the house before Enrique gets there - all in a half hour, I guess it's possible but seems pretty tight.

Oh, a thought just occurred, unless Travis had done the bedding earlier and had already put them in the dryer, wouldn't she likely have left blood on them moving them to the dryer? There was a smudge or two of blood on the washer and the bathroom faucet had blood on it (presumably from her washing her hands after dumping the clothes in the washer), how could she move freshly washed laundry without transferring something onto it?

I believe she thought through beforehand what she had to do to exit quickly, and did some groundwork before she killed him...maybe slipping that check into his drawer, hiding clothes on that closet top shelf where she says she reached for a gun, even bringing his wallet upstairs into the closet to save time afterwards.

As part of that efficiency, she may well have offered to help out with the cleaning he seems to have been doing, by putting his bedding in the wash, then the drier, perhaps as she watched him begin to use that tile cleaner.

One of the most mysterious things to me about that day is where TA and the were in the hour or so during the time Zach returned, that he didn't hear or see either of them. Made more sense when I thought the timestamps were off.

Are we sure the bannisters were slick when Zach returned home at 3? Enrique mentioned that, but he didn't return until hours later.

 

[geevee]

I believe she thought through beforehand what she had to do to exit quickly, and did some groundwork before she killed him...maybe slipping that check into his drawer, hiding clothes on that closet top shelf where she says she reached for a gun, even bringing his wallet upstairs into the closet to save time afterwards.

As part of that efficiency, she may well have offered to help out with the cleaning he seems to have been doing, by putting his bedding in the wash, then the drier, perhaps as she watched him begin to use that tile cleaner.

One of the most mysterious things to me about that day is where TA and the were in the hour or so during the time Zach returned, that he didn't hear or see either of them. Made more sense when I thought the timestamps were off.

Are we sure the bannisters were slick when Zach returned home at 3? Enrique mentioned that, but he didn't return until hours later.

Wasn't there latop activity between 3:00 and 4:45 or so? I just have a hard time fighting the notion that T was deceased by the time Zach came home.

 

[geevee]

What do you think? (rough draft)


-Drag, coup de grace, shove into the shower - at least 10 minutes, maybe 15 min. Travis was heavy, small shower stall to manuever
-Wash him and herself - 5 min
-Wipe walls - 2 min
-Glance and delete photos - 3 min
-Gather up clothes and towels - 2 min
-Go downstairs and start the washer - 3 min
-Wash hands, put on bandaid - 3 min
-Take bloody clothes off, get dressed - 3 min
-Pack up knife, gun, her stuff - 3 min
-Wipe down bannisters - 2 min
- Put up doggie gates - 2 min

Total: 38-43 min
Please add anything missing, subtract, or revise.

Good list/times Pocket, sure does make her time to exit tight.

 

[RickshawFan]

I think we could unearth more hidden truths from studying carefully:

-the interviews (48 Hours, phone interviews with DF)
-her manifesto (I myself never read it yet :blushing
-letter to TA's family, and
-the interrogation tapes when the spoke freely without the attorneys present.

I'm going to look for inconsistencies in the above materials and try to figure out why she changed her position in certain areas. This method might give answers to many questions. Need to use our logic skill. I took one class in college.

I'm chuckling at pocketaccent's royal "we".

 

[RickshawFan]

Inconsistencies aside, what's interesting about the manifesto is what she chose to put in it, which definitely includes her mulled over responses to what she believed Flores presented in the interrogation and perhaps her guesses at what he withheld, but also her "explanations" for everything from doing headstands to why she smirked when her mugshot was taken.

Going over all 3 versions at the same time several details stand out, including: her consistent lines (unusual overall) that one ninja wore jeans, and that a ninja robbed her wallet of cash (really think she was remembering stealing from TA's wallet), and the detail told in interrogation but not repeated that she didn't have all her clothing with her when she went downstairs, and mixed in with that fumble, that Travis had clothes of hers in his closet.

No he didn't, but perhaps what she was revealing is that she'd stashed clothes there that day to change into after she washed TA's blood off her body and out of her hair.

It's also interesting that in every version she gets knocked on the head just about the time a gun goes off, so conveniently can't remember those few moments, perhaps because she knows that's when she dropped the camera and it might have (or she knows did) take an accidental?

It's also interesting that her versions end with Travis being midway down the hallway, and as Pocket noted, the female ninja is standing over him. Midway. Again, based on knowing or guessing where the dragging photo was taken? Or knowing where she picked up the camera afterwards?

Do we think stole TA's cash in mid-murder, just like her Ninja scenario?

had no way to build a story from what EF said: he was ambiguous, vague, contradictory, and in general all over the place.

She probably didn't have registration papers: her car was repossessed.

 

[RickshawFan]

A favorite EF line: "You're pretty sneaky. You go up there and the roommates don't even know you're up there." (Chuckles)
She thinks she's referring to all the other times (which EF almost certainly knew didn't happen), and he's slyly referring to the day of the murder.And then chuckles at his private joke.

So TA can't have known she was coming, otherwise she would have found out in the Pasadena phone conversation that by now he had two roommates and one was overnighting somewhere else. EF had to tell her the status of the roommates. TA probably spent the whole conversation not giving her information about anything to do with himself. And he studiously avoided doing so for some time previously.

The "many, many, many times sneaked "up there" around the house probably reflects to the times she got in there uninvited although she would like to believe--and convey to EF--that TA welcomed her there and there were many sex encounters. I'll bet she had parked on Bryce many times before too.

Does anyone think might have been afraid the roommates would show up because she'd left her clothes downstairs and was nude.

 

[RickshawFan]

1. I don't believe she had any way of knowing who would be there. She hung around Pasadena for hours, IMO timing her arrival well into the night, to minimize the possibility of being seen when she parked on the street (Brice, my guess) and slunk over to TA's house to break in and scout.

2. What she would have seen even just driving by and around the corner was that a car she didn't recognize was parked in the driveway (Enrique's car). She said she thought Zach parked on the street (no Zach car to be seen), or in the garage if he was working on it. From a quick look, then, it was already possible 2 people other than TA were in the house- one unknown, the other Zach if he was working on his car.

Her choice then, whatever time it was, was to wait hours outside until she saw at least the driveway car leave, and that possible second person/car, OR to go on into his house, not knowing who was there.

If she arrived when Travis was awake she either went on in, chancing a roommate hearing her and IMO, Travis loudly freaking and possibly telling her to get out (he didn't know she was coming). Even if she spied on him through the window and concluded the driveway car wasn't a GF's because he was alone, she still wouldn't have known if there was a second person there unless she scouted that out, INSIDE the house.

I think she did just that. I think she waited until she saw the lights go off in his study, then went in, looked into the garage and saw another car she didn't recognize(Zach's rental car), and that she waited again for a short while then snuck upstairs to see who was there and where.

She could figure out one was Zach, because his room wouldn't have changed, and that there was a second roommate. Zach's schedule she probably thought she knew, but she couldn't have known Enrique's.

My guess is she hid until both had left, and then thought the coast was clear for hours, at least. That might have been when she moved her car to his driveway, if she did, and changed plates, if she did there. (If parked facing out, she wouldn't have needed a rear plate).

About the time she arrived...maybe she changed it when she sat in a Yreka jail and began working out details, including her absolute need to maintain that Travis was awake and expecting her, which she "proved" by knowing what video he was watching when she arrived, and when he was watching it, which was not at 3:00AM.

(About the roommates hearing anything. It's just as possible imo she was trying to find out if Zach heard anything during the hour he returned in the afternoon, or if Enrique heard something when he returned -if she was still there , and she had to sneak out (her car couldn't have been in the driveway if so).

Any possibility she used a roommate's plates?

Could TA have left the silly video on his monitor for several hours and saw it at some later time while he was sleeping? Maybe when she wrote the email to Chris over TA's signature?

 

[RickshawFan]

Yes, I too think she took most of whatever cash she could find there - by her logic cash is always taken, like the 30 bucks removed when the gun was stolen from her grandparent's house (yet her laptop and any other thing of value from her room was still there).

It's funny in her ninja story she mentions his phone was downstairs - yet she never accounts for the text CH sent and T (or she) texted back to at 12:13 p.m., while they're both still sleeping according to all of her stories.

She also mentions she left without her shoes - why did she think her clothes or shoes might be found so she had to include that in?

Blue jeans figure into this somewhere, she does seem to have reason for many of the seemingly extraneous details she gives.

I think I can agree with sister Rickshaw that she may have tried to shoot him first and it didn't fire (old gun that it was) and possibly T was able to lunge out of the shower and hit her, causing the accidental ceiling picture before she could get the knife and begin her attack in earnest. She's certainly trying to account for all of the evidence she was aware of in the ninja story (and maybe things she thought they were holding back).

If she tried to fire first, that was a good way to ground a lie, because the scenario was easy to repeat over and over. Also, we know liked to base her lies on a piece of the truth.

 

[RickshawFan]

Given Zach's visit back around 3:00 she either had to have finished (don't think so because he'd have noticed the dog gate in front of the stairs, he did remember how slick the banister was, the gate would have stood out too) or still had her car parked on Bryce for him not to have seen that either - I'll go with our first thoughts - parked on Bryce and didn't put up the dog gate and leave until after Zach left.

I still think there's much merit in the camera time not having been set and the time stamps off by a couple hours. Her morning time changes between her stories is curious, 3:00 is too early, 4:30 is too late - could she have been outside his office window and with the screen removed been able to see what he was watching, at least well enough to have googled it later (and figure out the band but wrong video) to tell Flores after being arrested?

Now you've showed me how this was done. She went to TA's computer to History. It would have given her the time, and it was the last thing before he went to bed.

Maybe she had to change her time of arrival because she first gave EF the time stamp for that video on the computer and then remembered later that the computer was one hour incorrect. So, the history time stamp for that video would have been an hour different from reality. She changed the time because she was going for verisimilitude.

She could actually have come into the house much later. I'm thinking she came in on TA when he was enjoying himself all by his lonesome and that's why he threw the KY. Later she used this scenario to build her pervert lie.

 

[Val1]

Some more info on the "donation" hate site justice4jodi.
It seems that the domain itself is registered with godaddy and has domain privacy so its hard to see who the registrant of the domain is HOWEVER the nameservers go to a company in Pakistan:
Name Server: NS1.ZOHAIBJI.COM
Name Server: NS2.ZOHAIBJI.COM
Registrant Name: Zohaib Bashir
Registrant Organization:
Registrant Street: Bait ul Fazal, Din Pura, Capital Road
Registrant City: Sialkot
Registrant State/Province:
Registrant Postal Code: 51310
Registrant Country: PK
Registrant Phone: +92.3329642422
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax:
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: email@gmail.com

I recall JA boasting at some point that she'd forgotten about a domain she had, though for someone so broke that she was counting pennies to buy gas one wonders how she was able to afford any, let alone forget one.

 

[Val1]

I'm likely wrong about which interview she's referring to in the manifesto. A male reporter interviewed her for the 1st 48 Hours interview, while she was still in Yreka, and he comments about how surprised he was that after 2 hours of speaking with her she voluntarily and unilaterally launched into the ninja story.

Guessing now that the manifesto was written earlier on, and probably while she was still in Yreka.

What stuck out for me in your posting of all her blather was:
--------
"JA: One was black, I think they were both black or dark blue or something. It was…. Anyway, umm it wasn’t until I was in LA and Laura wasn’t getting back to me, and it was already like 9 something……."
--------
Wasn't the trip to see Laura in LA the day before she murdered TA?