Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #8

[RickshawFan]

Hi, Sister Gigi. . (LOL about her editing).

The answer is...I think so, but am not positive. I can't remember if I cut and pasted the letter way back when, or retyped it, or even where I found the letter well over a year ago, when Sister Geevee called me out of retirement with the news journals and texts were being made available and I began my rapid descent down an endless series of rabbit holes, the first result of that spelunking being the thread "Travis's Journals," iirc, in which I first posted the letter, again iirc, on page 9 or 10 of the thread; that post is what I copied and pasted above.

There 's a link to a copy of the original email introduced at trial in that thread, I think on page 7 or 8, the letter now archived on the Court Chatter webpage.

I'd fire up my computer to post the link here, but as a recovering puzzle addict I think I need to avoid the temptation of going anywhere near my file directories stuffed full of research and non sequiturs as minor as-- did you know the narcissist fool spent over 15 minutes taking incriminating photos of her beaming face framed by that newly dyed hair? 15 MINUTES.

See?

Seriously? How many photos did she take? Was MM with her?

 

[Hope4More]

Aaawwww...I've so enjoyed the pal-ing around. Seems like we're ready for some new material, though. Nurmi's next volume?

I'll save Nurmi the time: Trapped with Jodi, v II.


The became ever more impossible and hateful during trial, forcing me into strategies that weren't my fault or responsibility, and JM not playing fair and being mean to witnesses and hiding evidence made it all the more difficult for me to ultimately triumph and save Jodi's life.

No thanks are due either to the decisions that allowed an ignorant public to turn a life or death trial into a circus, one that did not allow us to fully actualize either mitigation or a trial that accorded my client her due process rights guaranteed by whatever amendments, and reiterated in every last bit of death penalty jurisprudence, including that Skipper case I always, but always, referred to, no matter the subject of my plethora of motions.

More than that I am not at liberty to divulge because of attorney client privilege and the fact the client I was trapped with for so long succeeded in her threat to destroy my law practice.

Volume III will cover the insights I've had since entering therapy.

(Dear Nurmi- no thanks necessary, but if you make any royalties (lol), please consider donating a portion to Caylee Advocates new flower arranging business).

 

[Hope4More]

I've rustled up the Erin Corwin case. Is it Rose Harris or Ross Harris? I can't do a case involving toddler abuse, I just can't....

Ross Cooper Harris. I know. I've had to completely shut out the actual death (accidental or deliberate) in order to follow what IMO is an interesting legal case.

(And, btw, one in which the trial is being moved to another county because jurors really were incapable of remaining unbiased towards the defendant, unlike those in the 's extravagantly fair trials).

 

[Steve44]

According to , Travis used to tell her "Get to the point!" all the time.
I think the point she was quitely thinking in her head in that lengthy email is- You dumped me so I'm thinking of killing you soon.

(Woo, the Rose Harris case sounds mighty interesting. Just finished reading its timeline.)

I don't know if she was thinking of killing him right then, but she was clearly pissed, and if she was gonna walk away from the relationship like he had been begging her to do for months she was gonna get a hell of a lot more from him than he was willing to give at the moment, thus the persuasive 'friendship' rhetoric letter, the synopsis of which, again, in paraphrase was:

"OK, I'll play your silly game, snip snip, ties broken, but now let's get down to cases. You owe me, and if I'm gonna cash in my chips, then have cash on hand. I'm extending your credit in the respect department, but honestly the bills are already overdue, my friend, and I need to see some positive effort on your part in the direction of payback. I'm waiting..."

 

[Steve44]

Ross Cooper Harris. I know. I've had to completely shut out the actual death (accidental or deliberate) in order to follow what IMO is an interesting legal case.

(And, btw, one in which the trial is being moved to another county because jurors really were incapable of remaining unbiased towards the defendant, unlike those in the 's extravagantly fair trials).

I'd like to look into that, but I don't know where to jump in. Seems pretty complex legally, with high potential for another CA verdict, and I don't know if I can be truly impartial. His alibi at first glance seems ludicrous, and my first reaction is guilt, and if evidence to the contrary appears viable, then my next reaction would be anger at the sheer stupidity and the poor specimen of human being that he clearly and at the very least represents.

 

[Hope4More]

I'd like to look into that, but I don't know where to jump in. Seems pretty complex legally, with high potential for another CA verdict, and I don't know if I can be truly impartial. His alibi at first glance seems ludicrous, and my first reaction is guilt, and if evidence to the contrary appears viable, then my next reaction would be anger at the sheer stupidity and the poor specimen of human being that he clearly and at the very least represents.

I think the opposite - that it's very likely he'll be convicted because the average even impartial juror is going to find him extraordinarily contemptible, and bottom line, he IS responsible for his son's death, whether it was accidental or not.

(I lean towards the possibility it was accidental, but am looking forward to hearing actual evidence, not just the very biased (IMO) media coverage I've seen so far).

What's interesting -and scary- to me is that a new GA law allows him to be convicted of felony murder even if he had no intention of harming his child. Hmm.

As for where to start...it's been a few months since I've been on the thread, but i think there's a lot of good info in the thread stickies.

 

[Steve44]

I think the opposite - that it's very likely he'll be convicted because the average even impartial juror is going to find him extraordinarily contemptible, and bottom line, he IS responsible for his son's death, whether it was accidental or not.

(I lean towards the possibility it was accidental, but am looking forward to hearing actual evidence, not just the very biased (IMO) media coverage I've seen so far).

What's interesting -and scary- to me is that a new GA law allows him to be convicted of felony murder even if he had no intention of harming his child. Hmm.

As for where to start...it's been a few months since I've been on the thread, but i think there's a lot of good info in the thread stickies.

Thanks. I don't think the jury in State vs. CA found her very likeable either, but imo the prosecution didn't make the case, and they ruled appropriately according to the letter of the law, at least in regards to the most serious charges. I'm not saying I think justice was served, on the contrary, but that the prosecution rushed to trial without necessary evidence. All this to say I wouldn't try to predict the verdict based on his character alone, the jury is charged to eliminate that as a lone determinate absent related evidence.

Even if it was accidental, the event speaks to a lack of character that is disturbing in the extreme, and that's the best scenario he could stand behind.

Will it be televised? With NG gone, who will cover it?

 

[RickshawFan]

Ross Cooper Harris. I know. I've had to completely shut out the actual death (accidental or deliberate) in order to follow what IMO is an interesting legal case.

(And, btw, one in which the trial is being moved to another county because jurors really were incapable of remaining unbiased towards the defendant, unlike those in the 's extravagantly fair trials).

Erin Corwin trial also coming up......that's the one where she disappeared in Joshua National Park. Everyone thought it was the husband, but evidently not. I have a thing for national parks.

 

[Hope4More]

Thanks. I don't think the jury in State vs. CA found her very likeable either, but imo the prosecution didn't make the case, and they ruled appropriately according to the letter of the law, at least in regards to the most serious charges. I'm not saying I think justice was served, on the contrary, but that the prosecution rushed to trial without necessary evidence. All this to say I wouldn't try to predict the verdict based on his character alone, the jury is charged to eliminate that as a lone determinate absent related evidence.

Even if it was accidental, the event speaks to a lack of character that is disturbing in the extreme, and that's the best scenario he could stand behind.

Will it be televised? With NG gone, who will cover it?

Have you read up on the initial jury voir dire? The judge absolutely didn't want to grant a change in venue but was forced to, because it proved impossible to find more than a small handful of potential jurors who hadn't already concluded he was guilty and a vile human being.

Yes, jurors are supposed to be impartial, but that is a lot to ask for in cases involving a child dying a horribly painful, awful death, much less when the defendant who is indisputably responsible can only offer up as an excuse that he was too preoccupied with sexting with minors to remember to take care of his baby boy (which the jury will hear all about, as the judge has already ruled against severing those charges).

PS- there 's a sidebar in the Cooper thread, probably a better place to discuss this. And, if you do dive in, many WSers on those threads believe the car seat is perhaps the most significant evidence of premeditation (a whole thread exists just on that topic), and for many folks in general, the question is whether or not it was possible for him to forget his son was in the car in those few minutes between their fast food food breakfast and reaching the stop sign where he needed to turn to go to daycare, or go straight to get to work).

 

[Steve44]

Have you read up on the initial jury voir dire? The judge absolutely didn't want to grant a change in venue but was forced to, because it proved impossible to find more than a small handful of potential jurors who hadn't already concluded he was guilty and a vile human being.

Yes, jurors are supposed to be impartial, but that is a lot to ask for in cases involving a child dying a horribly painful, awful death, much less when the defendant who is indisputably responsible can only offer up as an excuse that he was too preoccupied with sexting with minors to remember to take care of his baby boy (which the jury will hear all about, as the judge has already ruled against severing those charges).

PS- there 's a sidebar in the Cooper thread, probably a better place to discuss this. And, if you do dive in, many WSers on those threads believe the car seat is perhaps the most significant evidence of premeditation (a whole thread exists just on that topic), and for many folks in general, the question is whether or not it was possible for him to forget his son was in the car in those few minutes between their fast food food breakfast and reaching the stop sign where he needed to turn to go to daycare, or go straight to get to work).

I understand, but the fact there was a change of venue, and that the jury which is eventually seated will claim impartiality support my premise that his character alone will be insufficient to secure a conviction and a determination of intention vs. accident absent hard evidence of the former, and, further discussion in appropriate sidebar thread...

 

[Hope4More]

I understand, but the fact there was a change of venue, and that the jury which is eventually seated will claim impartiality support my premise that his character alone will be insufficient to secure a conviction and a determination of intention vs. accident absent hard evidence of the former, and, further discussion in appropriate sidebar thread...

See you on the sidebar over there, then. Wow. New digs.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

I have Christina Morris here in the metroplex. There were several new reporters tweeting during jury selection and the Judge shut down electronics in the courtroom. Said it was interfering with other electronic.

 

[MsJosie]

Can she send her artwork via mail?

Hi TexMex from what was said in an early post today, art work can be mailed out but it has to go through certain rules etc. before an approval is given for it to be mailed out or hand given to a 'free' person.

My question was, looking at the picture of the drawing I did not see any fold lines, for the drawing to fit in a legal size envelope. So it appears not to be mailed in a legal size envelope. I do not think an 8 x 11 envelope would be provided.....because of prision rules and also because the felon probably does not have that kind of money to spend on a larger envelope and postage. Therefore, the drawing was handed to someone.

I then questioned if the felon gave the drawing to one of the members on her lawyers team. She snuck drawings out before through her defense team and I believe MDR was the one selling them for her while felon was in jail.

Next, I wondered if MDL was still an active team member?

The felon would have also had to have earned the right to get coloredpencils, from what was posted earlier, then have enough money to buy the colred pencils and the paper.....remember she has to pay TA's family back, even if people donate to her account. How much money does she have in her account..we will never know.

Wondered if there was a secret message under the coloring. Holding the paper up to the light might reveal something. Felon tries to be sneaky, like with the magazines.

All kinds of questions...and who posted the picture....and where is it posted?

Guess I will search as we are having a terrible lightening storm with hail, wind and flooding...who can sleep? Maybe I will get lucky and find an answer.....oh, when we have a break in the storm, I plug in the iPad to charge and also have it on a very low light setting so the battery lasts longer. Dont want to lose the ipad to a lightening strike.

 

[Steve44]

Hi TexMex from what was said in an early post today, art work can be mailed out but it has to go through certain rules etc. before an approval is given for it to be mailed out or hand given to a 'free' person.

My question was, looking at the picture of the drawing I did not see any fold lines, for the drawing to fit in a legal size envelope. So it appears not to be mailed in a legal size envelope. I do not think an 8 x 11 envelope would be provided.....because of prision rules and also because the felon probably does not have that kind of money to spend on a larger envelope and postage. Therefore, the drawing was handed to someone.

I then questioned if the felon gave the drawing to one of the members on her lawyers team. She snuck drawings out before through her defense team and I believe MDR was the one selling them for her while felon was in jail.

Next, I wondered if MDL was still an active team member?

The felon would have also had to have earned the right to get coloredpencils, from what was posted earlier, then have enough money to buy the colred pencils and the paper.....remember she has to pay TA's family back, even if people donate to her account. How much money does she have in her account..we will never know.

Wondered if there was a secret message under the coloring. Holding the paper up to the light might reveal something. Felon tries to be sneaky, like with the magazines.

All kinds of questions...and who posted the picture....and where is it posted?

Guess I will search as we are having a terrible lightening storm with hail, wind and flooding...who can sleep? Maybe I will get lucky and find an answer.....oh, when we have a break in the storm, I plug in the iPad to charge and also have it on a very low light setting so the battery lasts longer. Dont want to lose the ipad to a lightening strike.

I doubt MDLR is still in the picture. However above and beyond she went at the time, it was a paid friendship, and that particular contract ended at sentencing.

 

[Hope4More]

Appeals watchers: just posted an update in the appeals thread. Further delay granted.

 

[RickshawFan]

Hi TexMex from what was said in an early post today, art work can be mailed out but it has to go through certain rules etc. before an approval is given for it to be mailed out or hand given to a 'free' person.

My question was, looking at the picture of the drawing I did not see any fold lines, for the drawing to fit in a legal size envelope. So it appears not to be mailed in a legal size envelope. I do not think an 8 x 11 envelope would be provided.....because of prision rules and also because the felon probably does not have that kind of money to spend on a larger envelope and postage. Therefore, the drawing was handed to someone.

I then questioned if the felon gave the drawing to one of the members on her lawyers team. She snuck drawings out before through her defense team and I believe MDR was the one selling them for her while felon was in jail.

Next, I wondered if MDL was still an active team member?

The felon would have also had to have earned the right to get coloredpencils, from what was posted earlier, then have enough money to buy the colred pencils and the paper.....remember she has to pay TA's family back, even if people donate to her account. How much money does she have in her account..we will never know.

Wondered if there was a secret message under the coloring. Holding the paper up to the light might reveal something. Felon tries to be sneaky, like with the magazines.

All kinds of questions...and who posted the picture....and where is it posted?

Guess I will search as we are having a terrible lightening storm with hail, wind and flooding...who can sleep? Maybe I will get lucky and find an answer.....oh, when we have a break in the storm, I plug in the iPad to charge and also have it on a very low light setting so the battery lasts longer. Dont want to lose the ipad to a lightening strike.

Has the warden been notified? It sounds like this felon pushing the rules all over again.

 

[Steve44]

Appeals watchers: just posted an update in the appeals thread. Further delay granted.

The system is probably biased towards granting all requested delays since it's a one shot deal and the single opportunity for the convict to redress State wrongs, so they give them all possible advantage
regarding logistics. It also allows to hope against hope for awhile longer, I guess.

 

[Hope4More]

The system is probably biased towards granting all requested delays since it's a one shot deal and the single opportunity for the convict to redress State wrongs, so they give them all possible advantage
regarding logistics. It also allows to hope against hope for awhile longer, I guess.

Yes, in general, but no, as in, the 's case has taken an exceptionally long time to complete every step of the way.

It's actually an instructive example of the unintentional collateral damage a single public servant's policies can cause, in this circumstance, the rabid pursuit of the DP by Maricopa County Attorney Andy Thomas.

He charged so many cases with the DP during his (thankfully abbreviated) term that he plunged the entire AZ court system into crisis for years. The backlog of cases in Superior Court led to long delays in putting on trials, the appointment of trial judges who had no experience with DP cases, and a shortage of qualified State defense attorneys, which led to the hiring of private practice attorneys such as Nurmi, all of which in 's case resulted in lengthy delays, and IMO seemingly endless "side" litigation and bottomless resources for "expert" witnesses that she wouldn't have been afforded had she been represented by a public defender.

Her (unnecessarily) lengthy and convoluted trial produced an enormous trial record, and the sheer volume of that record has overburdened court reporters responsible for transcribing all of it, causing more delays, and has apparently been reason enough for the COA to reverse it's initial denial of an extended deadline for briefs, and to instead grant her attorneys an additional 6 month extension, and just now even more time than that.

Thanks go to Andy Thomas.

 

[TexMex]

Hi TexMex from what was said in an early post today, art work can be mailed out but it has to go through certain rules etc. before an approval is given for it to be mailed out or hand given to a 'free' person.

My question was, looking at the picture of the drawing I did not see any fold lines, for the drawing to fit in a legal size envelope. So it appears not to be mailed in a legal size envelope. I do not think an 8 x 11 envelope would be provided.....because of prision rules and also because the felon probably does not have that kind of money to spend on a larger envelope and postage. Therefore, the drawing was handed to someone.

I then questioned if the felon gave the drawing to one of the members on her lawyers team. She snuck drawings out before through her defense team and I believe MDR was the one selling them for her while felon was in jail.

Next, I wondered if MDL was still an active team member?

The felon would have also had to have earned the right to get coloredpencils, from what was posted earlier, then have enough money to buy the colred pencils and the paper.....remember she has to pay TA's family back, even if people donate to her account. How much money does she have in her account..we will never know.

Wondered if there was a secret message under the coloring. Holding the paper up to the light might reveal something. Felon tries to be sneaky, like with the magazines.

All kinds of questions...and who posted the picture....and where is it posted?

Guess I will search as we are having a terrible lightening storm with hail, wind and flooding...who can sleep? Maybe I will get lucky and find an answer.....oh, when we have a break in the storm, I plug in the iPad to charge and also have it on a very low light setting so the battery lasts longer. Dont want to lose the ipad to a lightening strike.

I think there might be mailing options where folding the "art" is not required. Large manila envelope? With cardboard to prevent the envelope being folded or crunched?
I looked on eBay for prison art Arizona. I only looked at the first page of results but there were several by an Arizona inmate named Kalby Lopez. Being sold by his grandparent for about $12. Size 8 1/2 x 11. The pics on eBay look like they have never been folded as well.

 

[pocketaccent]

I've rustled up the Erin Corwin case. Is it Rose Harris or Ross Harris? I can't do a case involving toddler abuse, I just can't....

I understand RickshawFan. When I looked further into the Ross H case, I found out there isn't really anything for me to sleuth, nothing at all like the ' case. On a scale of 1 to 100, is at 100 for deception and manipulation, while RH is maybe at 5 for both.