Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #8

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Hope4More said:
Attorney-client privilege is forever, unless the client agrees to waive privilege.

Nurmi has said the waived privilege, at least on the topic of his representation of her, when she gave that post-conviction interview and accused him of not fully investigating/putting on witnesses to support her lies about physical abuse.

I'm pretty sure 's appellate attorneys will be arguing to the COA that she didn't receive a fair trial because of excessive publicity, before and during trial (including a claim witnesses were too intimated to testify).

You're right, that if Nurmi's book contributed to the "circus," it was post trial and irrelevant to her COA appeal, which will be based solely on the trial record. I wonder, though, if it gives her any kind of opening, however small, to make an argument for ineffective counsel in her post-conviction relief case. Not really seeing how she'd succeed, given that she didn't get the DP.

One of the articles said Nurmi broke privilege and revealed information that wasn't admitted at trial? Scratching my head on that one, since I don't remember reading any new info, other than personal digs at the (such as his comments about calling and commanding him to pet her cat Luna while he was interviewing her grandparents in Yreka).

---

I agree his book seemed like a purging. It was one long, really angry rant, directed as much at the public for "not understanding" what a brilliant job he'd done saving her from the DP as it was a thorough smack down of and less so, of JM and Flores and Dr. Horn.

IIRC, he said during one of the few interviews he did after he self published the book that he knew it might end his career as an attorney. And, I think he kinda shrugged as he said it.

Looks like his choice was to fight 's attorneys (who is paying them?!) to try to limit the damage to 4 years, or to walk away. Don't blame him one bit for not wanting to do battle yet again with the . Wonder if being disbarred frees him up to write whatever he wants about her and behind the scenes at trial? :D
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This is what I don't understand - if his book is just as how you describe (I believe you that it does), how does it get the attention of the bar to recommend four year disbarment? Jeezopeez, I guess "get my cat", etc. qualifies as privileged, so I guess technically, it's right. But since showing your client's character or personality in a nonspecific way isn't actionable, he must site specifics?

I still don't get why Juan Martinez was legally poked, though. I read some pretty generic statements, but no specific statements or behavior.

What a nightmare it/she was and continues to be.
 
geevee said:
Jen's Trial Diaries Retweeted
ABC15 Arizona ‏@abc15 9h9 hours ago

#JodiArias is considering suing former attorney Kirk Nurmi over a book he wrote about the case
http://bit.ly/2f1esIs #abc15
-----

Can you sue if everything written was the truth? I suppose you can sue over anything if you have time and money enough, will she use the "defense fund" for such a purpose? Half of 10 cents an hour toilet cleaning sure won't pay for a lawyer. Seems like this particular battle will rage on for some time.
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FelicityLemon said:
This is what I don't understand - if his book is just as how you describe (I believe you that it does), how does it get the attention of the bar to recommend four year disbarment? Jeezopeez, I guess "get my cat", etc. qualifies as privileged, so I guess technically, it's right. But since showing your client's character or personality in a nonspecific way isn't actionable, he must site specifics?

I still don't get why Juan Martinez was legally poked, though. I read some pretty generic statements, but no specific statements or behavior.

What a nightmare it/she was and continues to be.
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isn't satisfied Nurmi won't be practicing law anymore, now she wants to sue him for the book? On what grounds? Damage to her reputation? LOL. :D

Her toilet cleaning funds aren't enough to keep her supplied with Beano and zit cream, much less to hire an attorney. It's been a long while since I've checked out the wording on her appellate scam, but iirc, that's an irrevocable trust intended for appeals only, which means she can't spend the few thousands in it for any other purpose.

Being the attention-craving she is, maybe she's just piggybacking off news of Nurmi to try to secure another few media minutes. Beats having only toilets to think about. Though, Lumley's death row inmates (including the child killer and DeVault) are now loose amongst the maximum security population, so there's that too.

About what, specifically, in the book could be considered a violation of A-C privilege. Perhaps what he wrote about the pedo letters? He all but said he believes she forged them, iirc, and I think he also said he had asked her about where the "original" letters were (he wrote he couldn't divulge what she'd replied because of A-C privilege).

Another guess is what he believed consented to waive by her bringing it up in the post-convinction interview - that he'd scoured the earth looking for that alleged witness at the Tempe PPL meeting she'd gone to the day before she left Mesa, the one who had joked about seeing her bruises, but surprise, he could not be located. Nurmi was quite sarcastic about the odds of this witness ever being located, lol. (And related - perhaps that Nurmi divulged he decided against putting Sandy on the stand becsuse, iirc, he believed she'd lie on the stand and be a lousy witness? )

Last guess- that he divulged "strategy" by saying he decided against asking Matt M to testify because he believed JM would shred him, especially about whatever alleged involvement MM might have had in making them magically appear when they did?

Dunno. Never thought I'd say this, but I'd actually be interested in reading a no holds barred book by Nurmi about the trial.....if he edits the thing this time, and if he aims his fire squarely and solely at the . :D

ETA. Just read Karen Clark's ('s attorney) full statement. Clark apparently wasn't willing to accept the 4 year suspension in part because Nurmi didn't (wouldn't? ) retract his "lies" about the , and "misstatements" about the case. Hence her alleging Nurmi hadn't demonstrated proper remorse.

Also, the Maricopa County Office of Public Defender was opposed to the 4 year suspension because it didn't prohibit Nurmi from writing additional volumes of "Trapped." :D

Last, Michael Kieffer is the only one writing nonsense about how Nurmi has tainted that fairy tale jury pool the is going to have when her conviction is overturned and she receives a new trial (presumably in time for her to go home for Christmas).
 
Shocking. *yawns*

No way Nurmi (or his feeeelings) gets the last word. SMH.

Setting my moral compass aside for just a moment, I do love that he got all his frustrations, anger, vitriol and regrets down on paper for the record. Definitely reeks of twisted sister sauce, but I respect him for it.

:thinking:
 
Nurmi turns over license to practice law, Arias continues to negatively affect lives


"Jodi Arias continues to leave a trail of destruction.

Her latest victim is her own attorney (the one who saved her life – twice), Kirk Nurmi."
---

Couldn't have said it better myself, Monica.

I'm no big Nurmi fan but I also didn't see where he divulged A-C info to the extent of even the 4 year suspension much less losing his license forever. I'd too love to read a no holds barred book by him about the trial, Arias suits be d*amned.
 
geevee said:
Nurmi turns over license to practice law, Arias continues to negatively affect lives


"Jodi Arias continues to leave a trail of destruction.

Her latest victim is her own attorney (the one who saved her life – twice), Kirk Nurmi."
---

Couldn't have said it better myself, Monica.

I'm no big Nurmi fan but I also didn't see where he divulged A-C info to the extent of even the 4 year suspension much less losing his license forever. I'd too love to read a no holds barred book by him about the trial, Arias suits be d*amned.
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Nurmi's a big boy and responsible for his own decisions, imo. He chose to write that book and he chose to attack his ex-client in it (an ethical no-no). I think 's attorney didn't get it wrong when she said Nurmi wrote it for self-aggrandizement; the man obviously did feel compelled to set the public straight about the genius of his strategy to save her from the DP, despite her fighting him every step of the way.

I'd have at least some respect or sympathy for him if he had stopped there, but nooooope, even after those filthy, ugly trials Nurmi wasn't done with trashing Travis, or JM, or Flores,or Dr. Horn.

No sympathy here, and I don't give the any "credit" for Nurmi's own self destruction.
 
Makes me wonder what is in the works (besides Parts 2&3) ... Isn't HLN launching a new legal show to replace NG in 2017?
 
Turns out that Nurmi can ( theoretically) get his Arizona law license back in 5 years, if he is so inclined. The process isn't easy, but it's at least possible.


Given the alternative to disbarment was a 4 year suspension and having to deal with the , no wonder he chose disbarment.

-----

And........Happy Thanksgiving! :)
 
Hope4More said:
If half of her salary goes to TA's family, I wonder if that means half of any donations to the have gone to the family as well? Though of course, half of nothing doesn't add up to much. :D
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Yes. Anything in her "trust fund".
 
geevee said:
Nurmi turns over license to practice law, Arias continues to negatively affect lives


"Jodi Arias continues to leave a trail of destruction.

Her latest victim is her own attorney (the one who saved her life – twice), Kirk Nurmi."
---

Couldn't have said it better myself, Monica.

I'm no big Nurmi fan but I also didn't see where he divulged A-C info to the extent of even the 4 year suspension much less losing his license forever. I'd too love to read a no holds barred book by him about the trial, Arias suits be d*amned.
Click to expand...

Actually, I think Nurmi won that round. spent precious cash on getting an attorney to go after him, advertised that there was no remorse, and then he slithers out from under the pile of doo-doo by just saying, Hell, great idea to have my license. It's all yours" And he lives to write a whole new volume on whatever he wants to, since he can't have disbarment held over his head.

shot herself in the foot all over again. Bwahaha!
 
FelicityLemon said:
This is what I don't understand - if his book is just as how you describe (I believe you that it does), how does it get the attention of the bar to recommend four year disbarment? Jeezopeez, I guess "get my cat", etc. qualifies as privileged, so I guess technically, it's right. But since showing your client's character or personality in a nonspecific way isn't actionable, he must site specifics?

I still don't get why Juan Martinez was legally poked, though. I read some pretty generic statements, but no specific statements or behavior.

What a nightmare it/she was and continues to be.
Click to expand...

I was going to say, I saw these articles about Nurmi today and first thought is, typical Borderline behavior, denies damage to her pride, yet pursues annihilation against two males who "wronged her." Sidenote: This personally reaffirms for me, she should have been given the DP. JA life goals: Hurt dead victim, their families, unsuspecting fools in prison, public, etc etc.

I also think it's ludicrous for JM to receive a spanking for the considerable job he did dealing with a creature as pathological as JA (and with her deficits, insisted on getting on the stand). They have nothing on him other than he appeared to be frustrated. (give me a break) It was a severely long trial, which seemed unusual to the rest of America as this case stockpiled evidence in a bunker of it's own. I think the judge properly evaluated the tone during one of the sidebars, "I think it's the stress of the trial."

I think the committee doesn't want to pen the actual language that "Juan's tone is too scawy." Okay, so JA uses her passive aggression on stand in an attempt to manipulate the jury (courtroom audience) with her rehearsed in jail "method acting" and the prosecutor can't sigh in disbelief and contain the situation to return her attention to the murder of Travis Alexander?? Because he provided plenty of evidence to the defense, it would seem all lawyers (and congressman) are guilty of paperwork delays - this doesn't necessarily indicate grounds for probation. Thus, I sense a bias against Juan here.

P.S. JA - no one cares about Luna.

If I had been Nurmi, I would have stated *cough* "I uh, have allergies."

If you don't shoot JA down immediately and firmly, she'll manage to reap havoc on your mental faculties with further agonizing verbiage. "Why can't you pet her?" "You're so weird" (aka: I'm going to hold this against you every conversation henceforth till a time I feel comfortable I've worn you down for not petting said unhygienic cat. I'll even tell Wilmott and Mitigation Short Skirts about this one as my relentlessness confuses your mental and emotional well-being as dedicate each and every second of your life to me). I don't think he mentioned the cat because he felt the need to unhinge JA. She's already pretty unhinged. She is never going to "unhinge." He mentioned it because it unnerved him, like no other client likely has. It my have helped his case if he explained just why certain comments/behavior were so "quirky" for him. I doubt he can express his feelings well, as he appears somewhat self-centered as well. He delivers his interactions as gut-like experiences and nothing else. That's makes him seem unwise and/or vindictive (well, not to us, we get it, we know how taxing JA is on the body - add to that, I believe some of us have had our own experiences with borderlines and/or sociopaths).

IMO, the Discipline Board has no notion on the particular psychology, vendetta, and cyclical behavior of this killer. The prosecutor and Nurmi merely reflexively responded to the manipulation initiated by JA. A natural response to her is de-stressing or therapy. They are only human. Only so much of our coping mechanisms can handle the wear-and-tear tactics of a borderline narcissist psycho. I don't fault Nurmi for feeling exhausted. I don't like the guy, but it's obvious he'd rather sacrifice his license because he feels it just to vent. That should tell the board something. I find it easy to detach from JA and merely focus on any tidbits (of genuine enough article) to outline a profile of a borderline killer. She is seriously a psychological case study in itself. She intended to conceal her true nature in court, she is ever camera ready. But his comments about her and her family's behavior seem truer to scope. I am sure Nurmi's a bit temperamental in his own capacity, we see big dysfunctional maneuverings by his own account, which is what we'd expect. His accounts honestly seem more realistic to me, just subtract the narrator's ego and establish where his flaws come into play, but keep the stuff about Arias'. So go ahead, what other games did we expect of them but were concealed from our view? She's a rather functional liar. It's amazing (-ly horrible, mind you).
 
Hope4More said:
ETA. Just read Karen Clark's ('s attorney) full statement. Clark apparently wasn't willing to accept the 4 year suspension in part because Nurmi didn't (wouldn't? ) retract his "lies" about the , and "misstatements" about the case. Hence her alleging Nurmi hadn't demonstrated proper remorse.
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:giggle:

:praying: Volume 2, volume 2...
 
Hope4More said:
Turns out that Nurmi can ( theoretically) get his Arizona law license back in 5 years, if he is so inclined. The process isn't easy, but it's at least possible.


Given the alternative to disbarment was a 4 year suspension and having to deal with the , no wonder he chose disbarment.

-----

And........Happy Thanksgiving! :)
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Last year, Nurmi stated he was fighting cancer... I wonder if he feels like he can give up practicing law for a bit anyhow and the Arias matter is a moot point.
 
b_lab7410 said:
Last year, Nurmi stated he was fighting cancer... I wonder if he feels like he can give up practicing law for a bit anyhow and the Arias matter is a moot point.
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That's what I think. He may not even want to be an attorney any more. He has plenty of money now and can't threaten disbarment 'cos he beat her to it. IMO, versus the , the Nurms won this round handily.
 
Remember JM had us all consumed with Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs when ALV was going down in an explosion of incompetency?

I was pursuing something else entirely, and came across an article on Rumpelstiltskin and narcissism. Totally on point for all things .

Here ya go!

http://www.suicidology-online.com/pdf/SOL-2011-2-80-88.pdf
 
Rumpelstiltskin vs.
Weird looking, e.g. The eyes, the fake stuff, snake tongue, etc. fake blonde
Grotesque: R is a gnome or ugly and deformed elf; , well, that, too
Screeching songs
Fixation that you get the name right or rage ensues
Obsession with their "special talents"
Arrogant
Unempathic
Kills self in fit of rage ( does this symbolically by committing a capital-qualifying crime; she is too narcissistic to do it for real or even tell a convincing story about suicide)
Attraction to esoteric knowledge
Loves to have friends in high places
Grandiose
Laughable because of their self-delight which is extremely exaggerated
 
RickshawFan said:
Did he even testify in the Arias trial? It doesn't seem as though toxicology was a big factor.
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No I don't believe any testimony this man may have offered would change anything for the Killer. Toxicology was not an issue .
 
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