Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #8

[geevee]

The strength of the sex photographs alone made Juan lean towards charging her with first degree murder. Wisely, he hesitated until the forensic evidence came back positive but he stressed the importance in his book.

Juan Martinez believes they had sex that afternoon because of the evidence and other factors including his careful analysis of the interviews with Detective Flores and his study of the case. The value of the evidence didn't go down. The sexual nature of the photographs was useful to the prosecution in other ways. The irony being that Arias wished to attempt to shame Travis after slaughtering him re their sexual interactions but the prosecution used the sex to corner a vicious murderer. Juan Martinez details how he exposed her enjoyment of the sex despite Nurmi's attempts to portray the opposite. One of the brilliant moments in the first trial was when Juan - within minutes of cross examining Arias - gets her to smugly smirk about how the sex wasn't stressful. Nurmi had just spent days and days boring the jury with his 'poor sexual victim' strategy only to be smacked in the face. Within around three minutes of Juan stepping into the arena. Nurmi's face is a picture:

[video=youtube;Muqjj4B_9Kg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Muqjj4B_9Kg[/video]

Outside a few people on this forum, the sexual nature of the photographs seems obvious to most people I have seen discussing the trial. Two juries and her lawyers dd not question the sexual nature of the photographs. Nor did Arias or any family members of Travis Alexander. The evidence is solid and doubts seem to stem from Arias' ludicrous attempts to lie her way out of being caught on camera during the interview with Detective Flores. She offered laughable memory card swap suggestions which she herself even recognised as being a stretch.

Juan Martinez' book, 'Conviction: The Untold Story of Putting Jodi Arias Behind Bars' contained very little that was new to me. I found his thought process interesting and his laser-like focus on evidence to be well worth reading. Mr Martinez details how the intimacy of sex was particularly shocking given the brutal slaughter afterwards. He used the sex pictures to effectively make this point to the jury. Juan explains how his logical conclusion suggested that a video was made that day of the sex due to a segment of the interview with Detective Flores. Juan states that Travis was aroused in one of the pictures. Juan Martinez presented overwhelming evidence of sexual interaction on June 4. No question from the prosecution that those were sexual photographs. I have many questions about what happened before and after the sex photographs. The sex part is the easiest thing to explain about what happened on that terrible day.

I don't think anyone here is doubting the sexual nature of those pics, only the accuracy of their time stamps.

 

[Niner]

I, too, would read MM's book!

 

[TrialWatcher]

I don't think anyone here is doubting the sexual nature of those pics, only the accuracy of their time stamps.

I have seen people on this forum state emphatically that they do not believe that they had sex that day. I haven't seen that anywhere else.

Juan Martinez emphasises in his book, Conviction that the importance of the photographs cannot be overstated:

"Although I had palm print and DNA results, the importance of the photos retrieved from the camera was hard to overstate"

Juan stresses that the remaining evidence may not have been enough to find her guilty. None of the theories presented here has remotely dented the solid evidence presented in court. Arias would probably use 'the time stamp doubt theories' herself in appeal, if there was a remote chance it would imply state incompetence. Or evidence that used dodgy timestamps. As I have said before, those examining the incorrect timestamp or memory card swap theories seem to have started with Arias' attempts to lie her way out of being charged during a Detective Flores interview. This, I find incredible as even Arias struggles to square that circle.

 

[TrialWatcher]

I, too, would read MM's book!

This is a tough one, Niner. I'm interested in what he would have to say too but I wouldn't pay to read it. It would seem like a reward for his willingness to lie for Arias (allegedly). If he refutes this - fair enough. Juan Martinez dealt with him comprehensively before the first trial.

 

[FinallyRegistered]

Pocket, what are you doing to me! Now I'll have to watch that whole thing!

Yeah, I'm watching it again, too. I want the word "edify" stricken from the English language.

 

[FinallyRegistered]

This is a tough one, Niner. I'm interested in what he would have to say too but I wouldn't pay to read it. It would seem like a reward for his willingness to lie for Arias (allegedly). If he refutes this - fair enough. Juan Martinez dealt with him comprehensively before the first trial.

I feel a little differently because I don't remember him ever really flying a flag for JA. He stayed silent when it mattered. Now, on the other hand, that other MM (from international places) did lie for JA under oath, and that I cannot support.

(Yikes, I say all that with the caveat that he did not help her murder Travis, of course. For all I know, he could've planned the whole murder trip and cover up with her.)

 

[FinallyRegistered]

(Not verbatim)
JM: MM is a person who will not betray you correct? .. and he is an ally of yours right?..MM will lie for you, won't he?
: No, he wouldn't.
JM: Are you aware of the statements he made in Jan 2013 involving that very fact. Yes or no.
Nurmi: Objection
Judge: Approach
JM: MM is an individual who is your ally right?
: Was.

RSBM

Do we know what MM might have said in January 2013? I don't recall anything that was public. Pocket, did you run across it yet?

 

[pocketaccent]

RSBM

Do we know what MM might have said in January 2013? I don't recall anything that was public. Pocket, did you run across it yet?

I don't know what MM said in Jan 2013.
When I watch that segment of the video, it looks like to me that defense team wanted to call him as a witness but MM said something that made them change their mind. It could also be interpreted by others that MM was ready to lie and JM somehow prevented him from testifying.
' statement 'was' seems to mean MM wasn't going to cooperate with her.

Also watch this one. From 3:15:00 - 3:23:00
[video=youtube;vXlgvVxgFlE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXlgvVxgFlE[/video]


Very interesting exchanges about MM, especially @ 3:20:08 when JM started to say "Mr. McCartney knows somebody..." then he stopped abrubtly.

I don't know what that was about but it tells me JM had much more information than what he wrote in his book where he talked very little about MM.

 

[pocketaccent]

The most astounding new tidbit I've heard on the MM front. When H4M looked over the ' direct, says that she called MM on June 4 BEFORE she started looking for her phone charger (just short of the Nevada border).

Always Matt this, Matt that, Matt, Matt, Matt.
I wonder if she was purposely trying to implicate him as a person who knew what she was doing. To confuse the jurors' mind and to scare him a bit since he refused to testify and lie for her. She lives to manipulate.

 

[pocketaccent]

I feel a little differently because I don't remember him ever really flying a flag for JA. He stayed silent when it mattered. Now, on the other hand, that other MM (from international places) did lie for JA under oath, and that I cannot support.

(Yikes, I say all that with the caveat that he did not help her murder Travis, of course. For all I know, he could've planned the whole murder trip and cover up with her.)

BBM, Not sure if he helped with her murder plan but...

On June 6, 2008 10:34 am, filled up her car at Sparks NV. Sparks is about 200 miles away from Redding where she needed to return her rental car. But she disappeared again, receipt-wise, for one full day.
The next receipt is when she filled up at Redding CA on June 7, 12:28 pm.

Could this disappearance be related to the 3 gas cans she filled up in Utah? (we sleuthers previously had determined the gas from those gas cans were not necessary to get her from Utah to Sparks NV)

Could she have gone to Monterey from Sparks?
A full tank of gas in the Ford Focus plus 3 gas cans = ~28 gallons.
The Ford Focus -> 29-31 MPG.

She can drive additional 812-868 miles with 28 gallons of gas.
From Sparks NV (the last place she filled up) to Monterey = ~320 miles.
From Monterey to Redding = ~350 miles.

Definitely doable.

 

[RickshawFan]

I don't think anyone here is doubting the sexual nature of those pics, only the accuracy of their time stamps.

Thanks for reasserting this. I certainly haven't noticed any posts that argue those photos weren't sexual in nature. What is sometimes up for debate is what kind of sex and exactly when. In pursuit of examining all assumptions (an admirable critical thinking skill), the conditions and content of those photos are fair game.

 

[RickshawFan]

Yeah, I'm watching it again, too. I want the word "edify" stricken from the English language.

I am noticing what terrible shape is in on her red shirt day. Contrast that with her demeanor at the start of cross. On the red shirt day, also, her mouth keeps drying up: she's trying to lie with glue in her mouth. She pretty much blanches several times. Then come the lizard lips.....

 

[RickshawFan]

Always Matt this, Matt that, Matt, Matt, Matt.
I wonder if she was purposely trying to implicate him as a person who knew what she was doing. To confuse the jurors' mind and to scare him a bit since he refused to testify and lie for her. She lives to manipulate.

Yes. Plus her statement indicated that her phone had not lost its charge when she left Pasadena, as she claimed: as we all know, she turned it off so she wouldn't ping in AZ, and here she gives corroboration.

 

[RickshawFan]

BBM, Not sure if he helped with her murder plan but...

On June 6, 2008 10:34 am, filled up her car at Sparks NV. Sparks is about 200 miles away from Redding where she needed to return her rental car. But she disappeared again, receipt-wise, for one full day.
The next receipt is when she filled up at Redding CA on June 7, 12:28 pm.

Could this disappearance be related to the 3 gas cans she filled up in Utah? (we sleuthers previously had determined the gas from those gas cans were not necessary to get her from Utah to Sparks NV)

Could she have gone to Monterey from Sparks?
A full tank of gas in the Ford Focus plus 3 gas cans = ~28 gallons.
The Ford Focus -> 29-31 MPG.

She can drive additional 812-868 miles with 28 gallons of gas.
From Sparks NV (the last place she filled up) to Monterey = ~320 miles.
From Monterey to Redding = ~350 miles.

Definitely doable.

Good one, Pocket. We could verify by comparing the mileage to the miles driven on the rental.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

In what I think was Vol.5(if my notes are correct from BK's site) Dated Mar.30/08, she had also noted that the night before she had got a massage and a facial then, "This morning TA & I got into a little spat."

I'm thinking that may well have been because he caught her taking pics of him while he rested after their "activities". That would have been just before she went and drove the BMW to Uhaul and proceeded to blow up the transmission and after she had dyed her hair "brown".

It's in volume 5 about going all the way again. She writes of how tender and different he was, and that he wanted it to be special. She then goes on about Mimi.

Volume 5 Page 1 February 22? she write of driving to Las Vegas that night and about Rich Webster and there was definitely potential there. On the 27th it's her second day at Ruby Tuesday, and Danny Coleeson is taking her to Pei Wei for dinner then to karakoe. The date was fun and she might hook up with Sam the next evening.


She sure isn't chaste stay at home waiting for Travis was she? So much for being exclusive and going steady with Travis since the first of the month. It sure opens the field to a larger chance to get a std?

 

[geevee]

Good one, Pocket. We could verify by comparing the mileage to the miles driven on the rental.

Excellent point Ricksis, I seem to recall there was some extra (unaccounted for) mileage on the rental from her known stop points but I don't recall it being as much as ~400 miles (-254 from Sparks to Redding, +670 Sparks to Monterey = 416 difference). I don't have the Budget receipt in my picture file to see what the actual mileage was but can look on the bank receipts thread, I think they calculated the whole trip miles compared to what was on that receipt. But I hadn't thought she might visit MM at the completion of her journey, a very intriguing thought.

 

[geevee]

Post 59 has the mileage breakdown:

Partial post:
---
1. Redding CA to Lodi CA - 198 miles
2. Lodi CA to Monterey CA - 158 miles
3. Monterey CA to Salinas CA - 18 miles
4. Salinas CA to Pasadena CA - 304 miles
5. Pasadena CA to Mesa AZ - 387 miles
6. Mesa AZ to West Jordan UT via Hoover Dam & Las Vegas - 714 miles
7. West Jordan UT to Winnemucca NV - 362 miles
8. Winnemucca NV to Sparks NV - 163
9. Sparks NV to Redding CA (long way) - 237 miles

For a grand total of 2541 miles .... when Arias returned the rental car, the mileage driven was 2843 miles ( a difference of almost 300 miles).
---

Credit to Sustained for the calculations above.

Hmmm....difference of +/- 300 miles, maybe they met somewhere so she didn't have to drive all the way to Monterey?

 

[RickshawFan]

Post 59 has the mileage breakdown:

Partial post:
---
1. Redding CA to Lodi CA - 198 miles
2. Lodi CA to Monterey CA - 158 miles
3. Monterey CA to Salinas CA - 18 miles
4. Salinas CA to Pasadena CA - 304 miles
5. Pasadena CA to Mesa AZ - 387 miles
6. Mesa AZ to West Jordan UT via Hoover Dam & Las Vegas - 714 miles
7. West Jordan UT to Winnemucca NV - 362 miles
8. Winnemucca NV to Sparks NV - 163
9. Sparks NV to Redding CA (long way) - 237 miles

For a grand total of 2541 miles .... when Arias returned the rental car, the mileage driven was 2843 miles ( a difference of almost 300 miles).
---

Credit to Sustained for the calculations above.

Hmmm....difference of +/- 300 miles, maybe they met somewhere so she didn't have to drive all the way to Monterey?

She's going from West Jordan to Sparks in, like, 7 hours? Not possible...

 

[RickshawFan]

Excellent point Ricksis, I seem to recall there was some extra (unaccounted for) mileage on the rental from her known stop points but I don't recall it being as much as ~400 miles (-254 from Sparks to Redding, +670 Sparks to Monterey = 416 difference). I don't have the Budget receipt in my picture file to see what the actual mileage was but can look on the bank receipts thread, I think they calculated the whole trip miles compared to what was on that receipt. But I hadn't thought she might visit MM at the completion of her journey, a very intriguing thought.

Bwahaha! Ricksis. I love it!

 

[pocketaccent]

Post 59 has the mileage breakdown:

Partial post:
---
1. Redding CA to Lodi CA - 198 miles
2. Lodi CA to Monterey CA - 158 miles
3. Monterey CA to Salinas CA - 18 miles
4. Salinas CA to Pasadena CA - 304 miles
5. Pasadena CA to Mesa AZ - 387 miles
6. Mesa AZ to West Jordan UT via Hoover Dam & Las Vegas - 714 miles
7. West Jordan UT to Winnemucca NV - 362 miles
8. Winnemucca NV to Sparks NV - 163
9. Sparks NV to Redding CA (long way) - 237 miles

For a grand total of 2541 miles .... when Arias returned the rental car, the mileage driven was 2843 miles ( a difference of almost 300 miles).
---

Credit to Sustained for the calculations above.

Hmmm....difference of +/- 300 miles, maybe they met somewhere so she didn't have to drive all the way to Monterey?

If we take out #9, 237 miles (Sparks to Redding) since she would have driven straight to Monterey from Sparks, then the difference is 539 miles.:thinking: