Sentencing and beyond- Jodi Arias General Discussion #1

[Luvrosco]

I discovered something that I find extremely chilling. I wish I knew the best place to discuss this, but I'm posting here for lack of a better idea.

I just completed watching the Breaking Bad series. I had been aware of it when it was on TV, but never had the attention to give it back then. I always told myself I would find the time to watch it and that has now happened. As it unfolded, I started to notice striking parallels to JA, and they came together in the end. I will list my random thoughts below.

- The series started in Jan 2008 (near the time of the murder) and ended Sep 2013 (near the end of the trial)
- WW, the main character, was very intelligent, maybe a genius, and developed into a sociopath
- The stories he told to cover up the lies were just as ridiculous and fantastical as those JA told and kept changing
- The amount of planning and charm and manipulation with everyone was amazing
- WW had his own "fugue state", which is another name for "fog", and it was a complete lie to try to explain his sneaky behavior, and the doctor called it TRANSIENT GLOBAL AMNESIA (ring a bell?)
- There was a scene where 3 Ninjas attacked the wife and threatened her to keep quiet. Didn't kill her but warned her if she spoke about anything
- WW had everyone fooled, including his own family, and his partners, and if you asked anyone who knew him before, he was always such a great guy
- He went through great lengths to acquire weapons, listening devices, cameras, poisons, etc and devised great schemes and stories and "Plan B"s
- Several scenes showed people showing up with an offer, and if agreed, they did the offer, and if not, they were killed or decimated, to their complete surprise
- He rationalized all the killings saying it was "for his family"
- He used children as an excuse and justification for at least 2 murders
- He faked a robbery to create a fake story for another deception
- He thought he was smarter than everyone else, including his lawyer and the DEA
- He was able to circumvent prison controls and murdered people inside
- He thought only of himself for everything and used people including his own family or scammed them (ala Darryl)
- He used threats or blackmail to gain cooperation or prevent people from bailing (e.g. his wife, partner, or lawyer)
- He made a fake video to throw his family under the bus (sound familiar?)
- He made a conspicuous phone call to create an illusion for legal purposes (hmmm...)
- His family eventually figured him out to be a monster

- EDIT: He did the EXACT SAME THING as the sentence hearing. He told his enemy that he watched his girlfriend die and could have saved her but didn't. Just for evil spite.

That's all I can think of at the moment, but I'm sure there's more. I know there is little chance that JA had seen all this as it was playing, but it is soooo eerily similar that I have to wonder. She rarely or never comes up with any idea on her own, so did she copy any of this too? And/or we see another example of a character and how they become so evil.

Just Wow! It sure sounds like our murderer. I never watched the series, but have heard it was excellent.

 

[atthelake]

O/T

10 minute break in the James Holmes case (Aurora theater shooting) and then opening statements. FYI in case you guys didn't have on your calendar.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/aurora-movie-theater-shooting/trial-live is one live stream

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?268818-James-Holmes-Trial-Discussion-Begins-April-27-2015 is WS thread for case.

:seeya:

ETA: Jurors can submit questions in this state also :happydance:

 

[mugwump*]

Hey all! :wave:

Just in case someone missed the explanation on how to get a FULL screen without the Ads - try this! It worked for me and I'm on a laptop! cguru:

Thank you, thank you, that worked!

 

[FelicityLemon]

Yep, we've all said things that in hindsight we wish we had not said, or had something we said taken out of context or misunderstood for one reason or another.

None of us like to be held forever to something we said or did even after we got more information and clarification was necessary. Depending on the situation, we might even do a complete 180. Chris and Sky Hughes should not be forever seen as villains because they made some decisions based on what they knew of a situation at the time.

And THAT is a brilliant example of manipulation and lies said with conviction and the introduction of (again by lying or misdirection) "facts by an expert" that support your lies. Coming from a person/s you wouldn't expect to lie (in this case, officers of the court), it can skew your sense of reality even for the briefest moment. I think that the majority of human beings take things based on their own character. We don't lie, we don't expect others to lie, so we don't always see it right away.

It never occurred to me to blame the Hughes for anything, they're average human beings like most of us and in such a sustained tragic and emotional state, it could be easy to swayed even for the briefest moment.

Speaking of misdirection, isn't that one of the attributes of a sociopath or psychopath? Not that I think Nurmi is a sociopath, just a defense lawyer. The kinda-sorta lying via intimation of something that isn't true. The deflection when asked direct questions no matter how innocently? To ignore the question and continue the conversation? Example: Person A speaks/writes as though they're privy to or in the inner circle of something very important going on. But, when asked directly 'how', which would be a normal query, Person A leaves without a word hoping the curiosity will die down or move on to another subject. Person A returns days or weeks later as though nothing had happened, and continues the speeches, the cheerleading, benevolence bordering on obsequiousness. People again refer to specific comments made and ask normal, human being curiosity questions and again Person A either deflects or ignores. After the first few times, many more people are beginning to ask questions, but this time the questions aren't simple curiosity and it's because they're getting a whiff that they're being played and manipulated and they don't like it.

Is it harmless behavior on the part of Person A? What goes on in Person A's mind when they suspect they've been caught lying? If they're a socio/psycho they don't feel guilt, so might they feel angry because after all, it's about them.

I'm curious partly because I've just been reading about people who desperately need attention and they get it by claiming (through innuendo and behavior rather than overt statements, while others make outright declarations) to be friends of victims or in the victim's social sphere. Yesterday, I was reading about the woman who lied about being a victim of the attack on the Twin Towers.

We also had someone briefly in our life claim to have cancer and scammed a relative out of big money for treatment that actually went to his meth habit. He died of an overdose and the ME said it was clear he had never had cancer or any cancer treatments. The person he scammed (whom we had all told what was going on (no cancer, yes drugs) continues to tell people he died of cancer. I understand it's self-preservation on her part, but she's got other issues. She is the sociopath in our family and boy have we learned a lot the hard way.

ETA: questions: why do I (not alone) feel the need to confront or expose a liar? Is it necessary to expose someone if the issue is not overtly hurting the people being manipulated in a physical, financial(so far) or emotional sense? I do think it hurts people to discover they've been manipulated into feeling and expressing specific emotions, and it helps us be aware for future shenanigans. Am I angry that I think someone is getting away with something by pulling one over on others? Who appointed me the exposer, what gives me the right to expose someone else's stuff?

This case just opened a whole new community of people interested in learning more about sociopathy and psychopathy! Skeery, creepy and oh, so interesting!

 

[Luvrosco]

Does anyone know if it's routine in Perryville for them to do reviews of the prisoners that are in General population? Kind of like a review that people get at work and if so is there a way to see it?

 

[franquerolane]

Jerice Hunter guilty.

 

[Itsy]

I hope JA's donors, if they actually exist, know they may owe gift taxes...

That depends on the amount they gave her. One is allowed to give (gift) another person $14,000 per year without having to file a gift tax return...I kinda doubt any of them at the JAII site gave her anywhere near this much!

From the IRS.gov website:

The annual exclusion applies to gifts to each donee. In other words, if you give each of your children $11,000 in 2002-2005, $12,000 in 2006-2008, $13,000 in 2009-2012 and $14,000 on or after January 1, 2013, the annual exclusion applies to each gift. The annual exclusion for 2014 and 2015 is $14,000.

 

[krkrjx]

jerice hunter guilty.

yes !!!

 

[RickshawFan]

That depends on the amount they gave her. One is allowed to give (gift) another person $14,000 per year without having to file a gift tax return...I kinda doubt any of them at the JAII site gave her anywhere near this much!

From the IRS.gov website:

The annual exclusion applies to gifts to each donee. In other words, if you give each of your children $11,000 in 2002-2005, $12,000 in 2006-2008, $13,000 in 2009-2012 and $14,000 on or after January 1, 2013, the annual exclusion applies to each gift. The annual exclusion for 2014 and 2015 is $14,000.

Evidently, her site said there was a "matching gift" of $25,000. Hey, IRS! Can you believe how she's coopted the language of charities?

 

[RickshawFan]

That depends on the amount they gave her. One is allowed to give (gift) another person $14,000 per year without having to file a gift tax return...I kinda doubt any of them at the JAII site gave her anywhere near this much!

From the IRS.gov website:

The annual exclusion applies to gifts to each donee. In other words, if you give each of your children $11,000 in 2002-2005, $12,000 in 2006-2008, $13,000 in 2009-2012 and $14,000 on or after January 1, 2013, the annual exclusion applies to each gift. The annual exclusion for 2014 and 2015 is $14,000.

Evidently, her site said there was a "matching gift" of $25,000. Hey, IRS! Can you believe how she's coopted the language of charities?

 

[Itsy]

Evidently, her site said there was a "matching gift" of $25,000. Hey, IRS! Can you believe how she's coopted the language of charities?

Well, yes - the guy (?) that's matching/contributing $25,000 will have to file a gift tax return, but he can obviously afford it (even if he/she is crazy, IMO). He cannot claim it as a true contribution (as in deducting off of his taxes it as a gift to the fund)...

 

[krkrjx]

Evidently, her site said there was a "matching gift" of $25,000. Hey, IRS! Can you believe how she's coopted the language of charities?

Even if IRS is not going to get involved, someone on the state level should question Killer's indigent status. Why should the state spend further taxpayer dollars on this killer if she is getting donations specifically for the purpose of appeals?

Killer has the money--let her pay her way now.

 

[RickshawFan]

Even if IRS is not going to get involved, someone on the state level should question Killer's indigent status. Why should the state spend further taxpayer dollars on this killer if she is getting donations specifically for the purpose of appeals?

Killer has the money--let her pay her way now.

Maybe this topic comes up in restitution?

 

[MistyM]

I discovered something that I find extremely chilling. I wish I knew the best place to discuss this, but I'm posting here for lack of a better idea.

I just completed watching the Breaking Bad series. I had been aware of it when it was on TV, but never had the attention to give it back then. I always told myself I would find the time to watch it and that has now happened. As it unfolded, I started to notice striking parallels to JA, and they came together in the end. I will list my random thoughts below.

- The series started in Jan 2008 (near the time of the murder) and ended Sep 2013 (near the end of the trial)
- WW, the main character, was very intelligent, maybe a genius, and developed into a sociopath
- The stories he told to cover up the lies were just as ridiculous and fantastical as those JA told and kept changing
- The amount of planning and charm and manipulation with everyone was amazing
- WW had his own "fugue state", which is another name for "fog", and it was a complete lie to try to explain his sneaky behavior, and the doctor called it TRANSIENT GLOBAL AMNESIA (ring a bell?)
- There was a scene where 3 Ninjas attacked the wife and threatened her to keep quiet. Didn't kill her but warned her if she spoke about anything
- WW had everyone fooled, including his own family, and his partners, and if you asked anyone who knew him before, he was always such a great guy
- He went through great lengths to acquire weapons, listening devices, cameras, poisons, etc and devised great schemes and stories and "Plan B"s
- Several scenes showed people showing up with an offer, and if agreed, they did the offer, and if not, they were killed or decimated, to their complete surprise
- He rationalized all the killings saying it was "for his family"
- He used children as an excuse and justification for at least 2 murders
- He faked a robbery to create a fake story for another deception
- He thought he was smarter than everyone else, including his lawyer and the DEA
- He was able to circumvent prison controls and murdered people inside
- He thought only of himself for everything and used people including his own family or scammed them (ala Darryl)
- He used threats or blackmail to gain cooperation or prevent people from bailing (e.g. his wife, partner, or lawyer)
- He made a fake video to throw his family under the bus (sound familiar?)
- He made a conspicuous phone call to create an illusion for legal purposes (hmmm...)
- His family eventually figured him out to be a monster

- EDIT: He did the EXACT SAME THING as the sentence hearing. He told his enemy that he watched his girlfriend die and could have saved her but didn't. Just for evil spite.

That's all I can think of at the moment, but I'm sure there's more. I know there is little chance that JA had seen all this as it was playing, but it is soooo eerily similar that I have to wonder. She rarely or never comes up with any idea on her own, so did she copy any of this too? And/or we see another example of a character and how they become so evil.

i don't see it at all, i think you are being way too hard on walter white comparing him to jodi!

the dude had cancer and was trying to provide for his family in the beginning, circumstances caused him to become who he was... jodi is just plain evil. i don't believe he was a sociopath, he had feelings, she doesnt.

great show though, god knows i've binge watched it over the years like 20x.

 

[space71]

i don't see it at all, i think you are being way too hard on walter white comparing him to jodi!

the dude had cancer and was trying to provide for his family in the beginning, circumstances caused him to become who he was... jodi is just plain evil. i don't believe he was a sociopath, he had feelings, she doesnt.

great show though, god knows i've binge watched it over the years like 20x.

Come on now, let's be fair here. He may have not been a sociopath originally, but he definitely turned into one. He was extremely manipulative and cold, even to his wife, and he rationalized everything. At the end he admitted he did it for HIM.

It was implied that he started out as a decent guy, but we don't know for sure. Also, he was "screwed" by his former business partner, and that made him bitter for many years before he got cancer. Whether he became evil or was always evil is not as important as the fact that by the end of the story he was very evil. Even Hitler thought he was protecting his nation in his own mind.

Aside from the comparison of the characters, you have to admit that there were some strong similarities in the situations, down to the exact diagnosis of TGA (which was a lie), and the ninjas who warned but didn't kill and then just left. The blackmail video. Faking stories and evidence designed to make the accusers look bad. Etc...

 

[LostOldUserName]

Thanks to this trial, I found this interesting. le :sigh: I want to go back and finish my Criminology now.

http://www.wikihow.com/Spot-a-Sociopath

I have said for years if I had to do it all over again I would have gone into Forensics

 

[nrdsb4]

Well one way Jodi differs from the Breaking Bad guy is that she is not all that intelligent. She likes to think she is, and she can speak in a rather articulate manner, but the way she planned, executed, and explained the murder was just plain stupid and does not reveal her to have a high IQ. She made multiple mistakes that most idiots would have avoided, and she badly misjudged both the public's and the jury's intelligence from the get go. She's really not the sharpest tool in the shed, much less does she approach genius level IQ.

Two armed Ninjas are in the bathroom having brutally murdered Travis. But Jodi grabs her purse (!) and "pushes past them" to safety. I mean, really? I have to credit Flores for not bursting into laughter during that interview.

 

[RickshawFan]

I discovered something that I find extremely chilling. I wish I knew the best place to discuss this, but I'm posting here for lack of a better idea.

I just completed watching the Breaking Bad series. I had been aware of it when it was on TV, but never had the attention to give it back then. I always told myself I would find the time to watch it and that has now happened. As it unfolded, I started to notice striking parallels to JA, and they came together in the end. I will list my random thoughts below.

- The series started in Jan 2008 (near the time of the murder) and ended Sep 2013 (near the end of the trial)
- WW, the main character, was very intelligent, maybe a genius, and developed into a sociopath
- The stories he told to cover up the lies were just as ridiculous and fantastical as those JA told and kept changing
- The amount of planning and charm and manipulation with everyone was amazing
- WW had his own "fugue state", which is another name for "fog", and it was a complete lie to try to explain his sneaky behavior, and the doctor called it TRANSIENT GLOBAL AMNESIA (ring a bell?)
- There was a scene where 3 Ninjas attacked the wife and threatened her to keep quiet. Didn't kill her but warned her if she spoke about anything
- WW had everyone fooled, including his own family, and his partners, and if you asked anyone who knew him before, he was always such a great guy
- He went through great lengths to acquire weapons, listening devices, cameras, poisons, etc and devised great schemes and stories and "Plan B"s
- Several scenes showed people showing up with an offer, and if agreed, they did the offer, and if not, they were killed or decimated, to their complete surprise
- He rationalized all the killings saying it was "for his family"
- He used children as an excuse and justification for at least 2 murders
- He faked a robbery to create a fake story for another deception
- He thought he was smarter than everyone else, including his lawyer and the DEA
- He was able to circumvent prison controls and murdered people inside
- He thought only of himself for everything and used people including his own family or scammed them (ala Darryl)
- He used threats or blackmail to gain cooperation or prevent people from bailing (e.g. his wife, partner, or lawyer)
- He made a fake video to throw his family under the bus (sound familiar?)
- He made a conspicuous phone call to create an illusion for legal purposes (hmmm...)
- His family eventually figured him out to be a monster

- EDIT: He did the EXACT SAME THING as the sentence hearing. He told his enemy that he watched his girlfriend die and could have saved her but didn't. Just for evil spite.

That's all I can think of at the moment, but I'm sure there's more. I know there is little chance that JA had seen all this as it was playing, but it is soooo eerily similar that I have to wonder. She rarely or never comes up with any idea on her own, so did she copy any of this too? And/or we see another example of a character and how they become so evil.

thanks.

This shows how abominably unoriginal JA is. Nothing she says or does belongs to her: her whole essence is a cut and paste. She cuts and pastes from people's words (even right from their own writing), their treasures, their bank accounts, their life events, their engagement rings, their possessions, their *advertiser censored*, their doggie doors (not to mention their doggies), their Ninja stories, their male body parts, their family members (think: that letter to TA's grandmother), their best friend's wife's approval....

Plus, I think the odds are high that drug—or other nefariously gained—money is being funneled to Jodi.

 

[La Louve]

Well one way Jodi differs from the Breaking Bad guy is that she is not all that intelligent. She likes to think she is, and she can speak in a rather articulate manner, but the way she planned, executed, and a explained the murder was just plain stupid and does not reveal her to have a high IQ. She made multiple mistakes that most idiots would have avoided, and she badly misjudged both the public's and the jury's intelligence from the get go. She's really not the sharpest tool in the shed, much less does she approach genius level IQ.

Two armed Ninjas are in the bathroom having brutally murdered Travis. But Jodi grabs her purse (!) and "pushes past them" to safety. I mean, really? I have to credit Flores for not bursting into laughter during that interview.

BBM

The thanks button was just not enough for this post.
:cheer:

 

[salberg7]

I reread katiecoolady's blog this morning discussing the killer's sentencing hearing. Katie's pics of the murderer and Wilmott are unique in they photograph the sentencing with the camera sitting almost behind JSS. The pictures are a great view of the pathetic killer glancing over at the crying baby as well as her arms in cuffs and her lovely stripes. They give a great perspective I hadn't seen before. I encourage everyone who hasn't seen them to google Katie's blog and read her account of that day.
OT but thanks, Katie, and congratulations on your approaching nuptials, from one sister nurse to another. I wish you many years of happiness!
The killer has been at PV for two weeks now. I hope as she sits in solitary her "fog" further evaporates and the events of that day haunt her every night interrupting her sleep. IMO, there was never any "fog".
I check JAII every other day and am convinced those people that post there are absolutely delusional. I can't believe the posts I read.
I would love to read the Hughes' book but do not have kindle or any ebook software, so I too can't wait until it is available in book form. I couldn't care less if they make money from the book. Their lives were interrupted horrendously by the killer and Travis' murder. Doesn't bother me in the least whether they donate the profits or not. I am looking forward to reading their book.