Sentencing and beyond- Jodi Arias General Discussion #1

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OT: Has anyone read the Hugh's book and is it worth reading? TIA

I read it, it's worth a read, I skipped the chapters on Mormonism and the comments people left behind about Travis because I already know he was a kind person. He was a bit naive though, but I personally think that is due to his upbringing and the wounds that he was left with emotionally. Jodi was dangerous, the Hughes wrote their personal account of that, it's a little frightening that she was around them like that (about one or two instances really) in which they felt truly terrified of her. Yes, she's obviously manipulative in another chapter part when she wants people to think Travis is dating her (at a point he was not).

Anyhow, just FYI, I do NOT believe someone wounded has someone like Jodi coming. It's just they are so vulnerable, I don't think they know how to avoid the danger until it's too late. I felt sorry for Travis, but he did defend her too easily.
 
I read it, it's worth a read, I skipped the chapters on Mormonism and the comments people left behind about Travis because I already know he was a kind person. He was a bit naive though, but I personally think that is due to his upbringing and the wounds that he was left with emotionally. Jodi was dangerous, the Hughes wrote their personal account of that, it's a little frightening that she was around them like that (about one or two instances really) in which they felt truly terrified of her. Yes, she's obviously manipulative in another chapter part when she wants people to think Travis is dating her (at a point he was not).

Anyhow, just FYI, I do NOT believe someone wounded has someone like Jodi coming. It's just they are so vulnerable, I don't think they know how to avoid the danger until it's too late. I felt sorry for Travis, but he did defend her too easily.

:welcome6: to this thread and forum! :greetings: b_lab7410!
 
The analogy that helps me to kinda, sorta understand her is the way a one- or two-year-old perceives his or her world.

I think I understand what you're saying, but I find it a hard analogy to make. Similarities can be found in what each lacks in social integration and social responsibility, but in the case of a two year old it's quite natural and not in the least threatening. If Jodi's lack of social conscience is at all similar to that of a two year old, it never the less holds no similar instinct of acceptance nor lack of palpable threat from society at large, nor should it.
 
That is terrifying. It's also incredible that it accurately describes my 54 year old SIL. I'm not exaggerating, this is like a lightbulb moment. We've always suspected psychopathy among other issues, but we also know there's a maturity problem and it was interesting to see her behavior akin to a 9 year old which is older than we suspected.

She is just as terrifying as Michael in this story.

She acts similar to this at 54 years old? Violent outbursts interspersed with revelations of cold comprehension?
 
After reading the article below on how a child psychopath behaves (i.e. very much like Jodi), it seems quite obvious to me that, although there might have been some damage created by family dynamics in her formative years, the psychopathy was already there. Jodi's manipulative behavior may have contributed to any "neglect" she might have suffered and it might also have warped family relationships.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/magazine/can-you-call-a-9-year-old-a-psychopath.html?_r=0

I agree. Given the choice between environment and genetics, I'd put more weight on genetics.
 
She acts similar to this at 54 years old? Violent outbursts interspersed with revelations of cold comprehension?

Yes. I've never seen anything like this. We moved in here to help DH's elderly, disabled dad with the household situation that included his daughter and her tweaker boyfriend. She went on a vendetta against me like I've only seen in movies. :(

Food poisoning. Destruction of property, vandalized my things, stole things...dear old dad would say "Oh, no. She'd never do anything like that."

It's a long, fascinating (to me and my family) tale covering the last 11 years.

She has a lawyer friend (scientologist doesn't believe in mental illness) who threatened to sue Adult Protective Services when they came out to help because paramedics couldn't get a stretcher through the house and had to carry Dad out like a dead body in a sheet sling. APS requested cleanup, lawyer threatened lawsuit.

Early on, we put locks on our doors in the rooms (dad was really ticked off at that) but neglected the windows. We got her on video in her pantyhose and heels climbing through the window, shoving a 60lb laser printer out of the way among other things. She's 5'3" maybe 100 lbs and is like a ferret. She's determined to do what she wants to do. When I finally threatened her with the video and threatened her dad that we were going to move out, he puts some limits on her behavior. Stealth tidbits continue, but not like it was before. I told dad in no uncertain terms that I would prosecute her if she continued.

Sick, sick relationship father and daughter. Nothing sexual, just inappropriately co-dependent. They treat each other like they're slow children and are superior to one another. FASCINATING if you're not in her line of fire.

She's very aware of what she does. Cold, calculating, manipulative and alternates between being "poor little victimized me". Relatives have come out of the woodwork to tell me of her violence as a child to her brother (DH) and the parents watching and doing nothing while relative sat horrified.

We sometimes refer to her as Rhoda (the girl in The Bad Seed).

We're stuck with her until any of us dies. I die, no problem. Dad dies, we're out of here. DH dies, I'm out of here. She dies, YIPPEE we're all happy including her dad. Part of her problem is she was and is a spoiled brat. Not with things, but her bad behavior for decades. She's run roughshod over the entire family, DH used to sleep with a knife under his pillow and was accused of being overreactive. I thought so, too, until I moved in here and experienced these things and watched her in action more than once while she was up to no good. Clever girl. Immature without a doubt, but malevolent. Lies at the drop of a hat, for no other reason than she enjoys knowing she put one over on someone else. She told the neighbors all kinds of bad things about me, one of them hired an investigator to check me out, lol! Clean bill of health, he later apologized. Dad never apologizes. Dad is manipulative sweet, little old school gentleman from the midwest. Twinkle in his eye while he lies.

A strange combination of passive-aggressive Dad and outright aggressive daughter.

TMI, so sorry.
 
Yes. I've never seen anything like this. We moved in here to help DH's elderly, disabled dad with the household situation that included his daughter and her tweaker boyfriend. She went on a vendetta against me like I've only seen in movies. :(

Food poisoning. Destruction of property, vandalized my things, stole things...dear old dad would say "Oh, no. She'd never do anything like that."

It's a long, fascinating (to me and my family) tale covering the last 11 years.

She has a lawyer friend (scientologist doesn't believe in mental illness) who threatened to sue Adult Protective Services when they came out to help because paramedics couldn't get a stretcher through the house and had to carry Dad out like a dead body in a sheet sling. APS requested cleanup, lawyer threatened lawsuit.

Early on, we put locks on our doors in the rooms (dad was really ticked off at that) but neglected the windows. We got her on video in her pantyhose and heels climbing through the window, shoving a 60lb laser printer out of the way among other things. She's 5'3" maybe 100 lbs and is like a ferret. She's determined to do what she wants to do. When I finally threatened her with the video and threatened her dad that we were going to move out, he puts some limits on her behavior. Stealth tidbits continue, but not like it was before. I told dad in no uncertain terms that I would prosecute her if she continued.

Sick, sick relationship father and daughter. Nothing sexual, just inappropriately co-dependent. They treat each other like they're slow children and are superior to one another. FASCINATING if you're not in her line of fire.

She's very aware of what she does. Cold, calculating, manipulative and alternates between being "poor little victimized me". Relatives have come out of the woodwork to tell me of her violence as a child to her brother (DH) and the parents watching and doing nothing while relative sat horrified.

We sometimes refer to her as Rhoda (the girl in The Bad Seed).

We're stuck with her until any of us dies. I die, no problem. Dad dies, we're out of here. DH dies, I'm out of here. She dies, YIPPEE we're all happy including her dad. Part of her problem is she was and is a spoiled brat. Not with things, but her bad behavior for decades. She's run roughshod over the entire family, DH used to sleep with a knife under his pillow and was accused of being overreactive. I thought so, too, until I moved in here and experienced these things and watched her in action more than once while she was up to no good. Clever girl. Immature without a doubt, but malevolent. Lies at the drop of a hat, for no other reason than she enjoys knowing she put one over on someone else. She told the neighbors all kinds of bad things about me, one of them hired an investigator to check me out, lol! Clean bill of health, he later apologized. Dad never apologizes. Dad is manipulative sweet, little old school gentleman from the midwest. Twinkle in his eye while he lies.

A strange combination of passive-aggressive Dad and outright aggressive daughter.

TMI, so sorry.

Wow, I'm sorry you're going through this, please be careful. It's interesting you mention a scientologist as a supportive third party, I've been educating myself quite a bit lately on it, coincident with the release of HBO's documentary 'Going Clear' My father was in it from the late '60's to the late 70's and the psychological damage it did to him, IMO contributed to his decision to take his own life. It's 'leader' David Miscavige is undoubtedly a psychopath, (as was its founder L. Ron Hubbard) who routinely and violently beats his staff and is willing to and has spent millions of dollars to hire PI's and others to harass ex-members for years on end. He even hired a PI to follow his father when he 'escaped'...when the PI phoned DM and told him his very elderly and frail father may have been having a heart attack he was instructed not to intervene. There are quite a few websites run by ex-members and others that keep tabs on the current goings-on with a view to exposing the abuses of current and former members, and the essential nature of the whole thing as a money-making scam.
 
Wow, I'm sorry you're going through this, please be careful. It's interesting you mention a scientologist as a supportive third party, I've been educating myself quite a bit lately on it, coincident with the release of HBO's documentary 'Going Clear' My father was in it from the late '60's to the late 70's and the psychological damage it did to him, IMO contributed to his decision to take his own life. It's 'leader' David Miscavige is undoubtedly a psychopath, (as was its founder L. Ron Hubbard) who routinely and violently beats his staff and is willing to and has spent millions of dollars to hire PI's and others to harass ex-members for years on end. He even hired a PI to follow his father when he 'escaped'...when the PI phoned DM and told him his very elderly and frail father may have been having a heart attack he was instructed not to intervene. There are quite a few websites run by ex-members and others that keep tabs on the current goings-on with a view to exposing the abuses of current and former members, and the essential nature of the whole thing as a money-making scam.

Oh! :( I'm so, so sorry for you and for your father and for your family :( I can't begin to imagine the sorrow, grief, anger and even rage I would feel.

Scientology is a scary entity under the guise of "religion" for tax purposes only. I agree with you about Miscavige and have been doing some mini research into the org. I've visited a couple of the sites you mention, enlightening in a way that should terrify people. Youtube has some videos from ex-members, too. I'm looking forward to seeing 'Going Clear'. I find it fascinating that in one breath DM swears they don't harass anybody, members are free to leave as they wish, but in the next breath, he's cursing and accusing them of all kinds of things in addition to exposing ex-member's information. :(

How can people not see there is nothing good about that? I guess it's good for those who are making lots of money from it, but I don't see proof of anyone else benefiting from enlightenment you have to pay for.

People would still like proof that his wife is alive and well...
 
Oh! :( I'm so, so sorry for you and for your father and for your family :( I can't begin to imagine the sorrow, grief, anger and even rage I would feel.

Scientology is a scary entity under the guise of "religion" for tax purposes only. I agree with you about Miscavige and have been doing some mini research into the org. I've visited a couple of the sites you mention, enlightening in a way that should terrify people. Youtube has some videos from ex-members, too. I'm looking forward to seeing 'Going Clear'. I find it fascinating that in one breath DM swears they don't harass anybody, members are free to leave as they wish, but in the next breath, he's cursing and accusing them of all kinds of things in addition to exposing ex-member's information. :(

How can people not see there is nothing good about that? I guess it's good for those who are making lots of money from it, but I don't see proof of anyone else benefiting from enlightenment you have to pay for.

People would still like proof that his wife is alive and well...

Thank you. It was many years ago and he had been out of our lives for many years when it happened, probably due to scientology's disconnection policy. I feel far worse for his loss than my own. He was a highly intelligent young man, only in his late 20's when he joined scientology, questioning convention and looking for answers, but paying too high a price.

I can't fully blame scientology, however. I'm sure he had issues of his own that contributed, but he certainly didn't find the help that he sought.
 
How can people not see there is nothing good about that? I guess it's good for those who are making lots of money from it, but I don't see proof of anyone else benefiting from enlightenment you have to pay for.

It would be one thing if they actually offered enlightenment. All they offer are all the ingredients of a mind-control cult, empty promises, a set of cosmic beliefs that are embarrassingly juvenile, all defended by an attitude of superiority and a policy of vindictive retaliation against critics from both the public and former ranks.
 
If he was a willing participant in sex/photos that day, why is he throwing the bottling of KY at her as she takes that pic of him lying on the bed?

I don't believe we'll ever have the facts. Only two people really know what happened that day -- and sadly one is dead and the other is Jodi.

Jodi may well have told him she'd disappear if he agreed to spend one last day with her. She may also have told him she'd return his journals and the ring (neither of which, IIRC, were ever found), as well as hand over the tape and any sex pics she had (I'm sure she had many of those -- despite telling Travis she deleted them).

I imagine he felt his hands were tied at that moment (literally and/or figuratively). I think he was under duress and pissed of about it, and not feeling especially cordial -- hence the cold and angry vibe in the photos from that day. She could make him do what she wanted, but she could not make him enjoy it.
 
Very well said and I couldn't agree more. She, and she alone, put herself where she is, and now for once- she must deal with it. Many, many other prisoners are experiencing the same situation. There happen to be many good, law abiding, hard working yet still poverty stricken people in this "great" nation of ours who cannot afford air or heat when it is necessary. I'll save my sadness and disgust for them.

Agreed. Air, heat, food, a roof over their head, clean water... the list goes on. Jodi's basic needs will be met for the rest of her miserable life and she deserves no better.
 
I'm not sure I understand your point. Wanting your schemes to succeed, particularly when those schemes are based on lies, is not valuing the truth. Also, I'm not sure I agree with you when you say her goal was to cause Travis' family and friends as much pain as possible in the aftermath as it being an accurate picture of her motivation, even though it's an accurate picture of her actions and their effects.

I'm not saying she isn't capable of vindictive motivations and actions meant only to hurt, she undoubtedly is, but to attribute all her motivation to only that is too simplistic, imo, primarily because it gives too much emphasis on her considering others' point of view, however perversely, an area where she's particularly lacking.

I think another way of explaining this is to say that for someone with a relatively normal psychology to have done and said everything Jodi did during the trial it would probably be accurate to say they did it in order to hurt the friends and family, but I'm assuming Jodi is a psychopath, and so any motivation that puts the appreciation of someone elses point of view as a foundation, (in this case understanding their point of view for the purpose of hurting them) is suspect. While such an understanding and subsequent motivation is evil enough, and we all believe Jodi is evil, that alone isn't sufficient to actually understand her behavior in light of her psychopathology. Further, for her actions to be evil, her understanding of their point of view is not actually required, they simply have to be so self-centered, and so exclusively beneficial to herself alone, that the effect is the same.

Re-reading my post, I'm not sure I understand my point either. I think I'm trying to distinguish between two different categories of truth. She only values truth when it concerns the success of her twisted schemes -- she wants true success. She doesn't give a hoot about the lies she has to tell in order to achieve true success.

And I can see what you mean about her motivation -- she may think of the pain she causes to be collateral damage (which she enjoys) rather than a goal in and of itself. However, when she does see an opportunity to commit a random act of cruelty, she won't hesitate.
 
I agree that she was in charge as much as she could be. I actually feel empathy for KN, as despicable as the tactics were, he was stuck in a prison of sorts by the judge not allowing him to quit. Nightmare for him.


My opinion is that ja is a black hole of humanity with an insatiable need to destroy anyone whom she perceives as "good" because she continually compares herself to others and comes up short.

The sustained attempt at humiliating lovely Deanna Reid is one example. There was no reason for what they did to her in court. That went so far beyond anything resembling a defense for the defendant. So much of this case had zero to do with a moral or ethical defense case.

While I may have some pity for KN, I have zero respect for JW. If I had to choose between being defending by either of them, I wouldn't want a lawyer who kowtows to me. JW is that. She doesn't give me the impression of strength and for me, she doesn't inspire much confidence in ability. That's just my impression, it has nothing to do with her client - obviously has nothing to do with her client since it's also KN's client.

The obvious and heavy-handed attempt to humiliate Deanna was such a monumental backfire. They wanted her to squirm with shame. They wanted to make her look like a sinner, a "bad Mormon." If they could have pinned a huge scarlet A on her, they would have.

All they accomplished with these tactics was to make themselves even more despicable -- and make it abundantly clear that Deanna is a strong woman, she's not afraid to acknowledge and take responsibility for her mistakes, a woman who truly believes in her religion and a woman who has faith that redemption and forgiveness can be had by anyone who sincerely repents, learns from their mistakes, and mends their ways. That, I believe, makes her a "good Mormon." It also makes her the anti-Jodi.
 
I don't have much interest in these things, I guess because I don't see what would change if they were known. We only ever saw a small part of the life of Jodi and Travis, and, thank goodness, the important information was brought out - that Jodi, for whatever her psychological reasons, crossed a line that no human being should be allowed to cross without consequences. The evidence that came out and the facts we know support and prove her guilt, and was enough to secure justice. If there's anything among the myriad things we'll likely never know that could change that, I'd be interested in it, but I don't think there is.

I agree these things wouldn't have made a difference in the outcome of the trial. We know she's a liar -- no need to keep piling proof upon proof upon proof.

There's no need to, but I can sometimes get caught up in looking for falsehoods and inconsistencies that undermine even the ridiculous and irrelevant parts of her story.
 
* I thought I heard (or read) somewhere that she got her GED while she was behind bars awaiting her murder trial.

I also remember her testifying at trial that she attended the local college in Monterey for a while. Really? She wanted people to believe that she, a tenth grade high school drop out, was enrolled in college with no high school diploma or GED? I guess maybe she didn't think the qualifications for entry into college applied to her. Though I think I already know the answers, I should call the school and ask how I can check to see if she ever applied, enrolled or attended.

The thing is, why lie about something as trivial as that when she didn't have to? Unless, perhaps, she was concerned a jury might find a tenth grade high school drop out guilty of murder, but not someone who attended "college" in her mind?

But that's another example of how she attempted to "pad her resume" (so to speak) with others.

She said she took Spanish and real estate classes (IIRC) at Monterey Peninsula College. Their entrance requirements are, shall we say, pretty relaxed.

http://www.mpc.edu/admissions/faqs

Who may attend MPC?Anyone 18 years or older may attend MPC. You may also attend if you are under 18, provided you have graduated from high School, have a G.E.D. or attend as a concurrently enrolled student (grades 6-12). In addition to the general application for admission, some programs have specialized applications requirements and procedures:

Concurrently Enrolled K-12 Students
International Students
Nursing Program

She may have taken classes, but it hardly seems likely. She certainly never provided proof of enrollment, let alone proof of attendance.
 
snip
Sorry, I made an error. She received her GED in jail while awaiting trial

As I recall (sorry, no citation) Estrella inmates who do not have a GED or a high school diploma are required to participate in GED classes until they pass the exam.
 
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