Sentencing and beyond- Jodi Arias General Discussion #3

[geevee]

BBM - FWIW, I can think of a way the pictures appeared on the camera, only because of a recent experience. My MIL passed away last month, and as part of her memorial, I put together a photo slide show. Some othe pictures I used were framed, or otherwise not accesible to me to scan into my computer, so I photographed them with my digital camera, and put them in the slide show that way.
The photos looked the same wether I had the original, or not. And if you were to look at the digital information from my camera, it would show they were taken at that date and time, although it was after my mother in law's death. Just a possibility.

I've never been sure about the sex that day, but what I've noticed is that Det Flores questioned CMJA as if that was a given, and though she denied it at first, she later went with it, and expounded on it.

In fact, except for the ninjas, she rarely deviates from what she discussed with Flores in those first few days, IMO - as if she used it as a template to ground her lies - IMO, JMO, MOO.

ETA - I also found her comments on the shower photos extremely creepy - moslty because we know Travis never had a chance to see them and couldnt have 'not liked' that one, Creepy.

I too found that statement about Travis not liking the full face shot very striking, he never had time to voice any opinion about those pics...not if it was taken on the day she killed him. And I do believe that it was, given the pics shortly before where he's sitting down quickly enough to probably bang his nose on his knee and make his eye water, abrade his lip and make a trickle of blood come from his nose (as we see in that full face shot). But that statement, so out of left field, still hits me so weird.

 

[geevee]

Then why are they timestamped? Did she move them over from one SD card to another? I don't think so, because Sony has a specialized card and JA did not have a Sony.

T's roommate had a Sony, and it was oddly found in T's BMW in late March '08, think that's where the memory stick came from, and probably when the nudes of her were taken, with roommate's camera, saved to his stick and then stolen and camera left in T's car. We will likely never know which Sony took those pics though because as far as we know, only the thumbnails were recoverable by Melendez, not the rest of the metadata that would tell which camera, true date, etc. But then you and everyone else by now know exactly what I think, I've reiterated it often enough to become the proverbial broken record. lol

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

I too found that statement about Travis not liking the full face shot very striking, he never had time to voice any opinion about those pics...not if it was taken on the day she killed him. And I do believe that it was, given the pics shortly before where he's sitting down quickly enough to probably bang his nose on his knee and make his eye water, abrade his lip and make a trickle of blood come from his nose (as we see in that full face shot). But that statement, so out of left field, still hits me so weird.

I'm trying to remember where I read it in the text that Jodi told Travis they needed to re do those of him shaving? IIRC it was at a convention. Also up thread there was the conversation about the cameras,and Travis told Jodi to use her good camera at the same PPL event

 

[Hope4More]

Odds and ends....

I confess that I just rewatched all of JM's cross of LaVa. Glad that I did, however painful it was, because I have a much better understanding of what JM was suggesting throughout about the timing of the killer's accusations of abuse and pedo.

JM strongly suggests that each accusation of abuse coincided with the date of an occasion when Travis had "rejected" her. Example, she spies in his back window, sees Lisa and Travis, loses it, and voilà, the next day is assigned as the first time Travis abused her. Coincidence, not.

I've wondered why she chose Jan 22 as the pedo lie date. JM's cross of LaVa reminds. Taylor Searle told Flores right after the murder that Travis was fed up with the killer as early as January 2008, that in January he had actually told the killer he wanted her to move out of Mesa by the end of the month.

So msybe she chose January for that reason, and settled on Jan 22 after reviewing phone and text records to find a date that couldn't be flat out disproved.

OR. What I didn't remember at all was JM's suggestion that the killer came up with the pedo lie as a way of blackmailing Travis at the time. As in, try to make me leave and I will spread this lie about you. Geez. But JM definitely suggested that as possible.

 

[Hope4More]

Odds and Ends. May 22.


May 22 had to be when Travis caught her hacking into his FB , signing in as him. She signed in as him and was attempting to "send something down the pipeline." In his name. Maybe messages to Lisa or other GF's saying he was back with the killer?

In any case, that's what he meant when he told the killer on the 22 that he knew what she had done, and that he wasn't going to talk with her until she confessed.

But, IMO he didn't know yet the extent of what she'd done, nor how close to the edge she already was.

May 22 is when the killer writes in her journal that this is the date when they had "the " conversation about other GF's and BF's, when they decided to change passwords to no longer allow access to each other's SM accounts. In other words, Travis changed his passwords on the 22 to stop her from hacking in.

Also on May 22, another not coincidence. On the same day when she has been caught hacking---red handed ---no possibility of lying herself out of this one, this is the date the killer writes in her journal that not only has the Helio been stolen (she wrote that in an earlier entry) but that the stolen Helio had recordings of 2 sex calls as well as a scandalous long text that would create a huge scandal if the Helio was found. Coincidence, not. Subtle, not.

From snooping T's IM's with Regan on May 19, the killer would likely have felt that Travis was already making good on his threat to reveal her for what she was. He told Regan about the tire slashing, mocked the killer that she was listening in, told Regan that he wouldn't put anything past the killer, told her --no joke, her tires could be slashed and she might get anonymous nasty letters just for talking to him.

Then, on May 22, he catches her hacking red handed and kicks her out of his accounts. She can't set him up online anymore, can't monitor him online anymore. She has lost all control.

So, she reaches for her ammunition against him- the sex tape and the May 2 sex text she'd sent to herself. She writes about the scandalous Helio on the 22 because that's the day she decided she needed to use it directly against Travis, and not something held in reserve to be sent to potential wife-candidates.

Travis on May 22 was referring only to knowing about her FB hacking, which is why he told her he wasn't angry (though he very much was).

 

[RickshawFan]

Such precision for anything or anyone she consumes.. That must be what she does to other inmates... the last one was begging to get away from her, she probably celebrated that day.

Instead of "precision", I think maybe I would write the analogy between eating the sandwich and the way Jodi deals interacts with people/victims more along the lines of: picking at them with gusto; choosing the parts she likes best; turning it all to garbage; making a mess; destroying what might give her sustenance; being destructive with both hands--total commitment; flicking parts off like an old cigarette; cleaning her hands of it all (physically and emotionally) as she went along; interspersed with crying drama; devoting hours to the task and never letting it end...
MOO

Now that I've noticed: she's two-handed destructive. She isn't just ambidextrous: she involves both hands in the same task interchangeably. Not one kind of task, left hand; another kind of task, right hand.

 

[RickshawFan]

I too found that statement about Travis not liking the full face shot very striking, he never had time to voice any opinion about those pics...not if it was taken on the day she killed him. And I do believe that it was, given the pics shortly before where he's sitting down quickly enough to probably bang his nose on his knee and make his eye water, abrade his lip and make a trickle of blood come from his nose (as we see in that full face shot). But that statement, so out of left field, still hits me so weird.

Maybe what was weird about it was that EF hadn't even shown her the pic, and here she is with detailed knowledge?

 

[RickshawFan]

Odds and ends....

I confess that I just rewatched all of JM's cross of LaVa. Glad that I did, however painful it was, because I have a much better understanding of what JM was suggesting throughout about the timing of the killer's accusations of abuse and pedo.

JM strongly suggests that each accusation of abuse coincided with the date of an occasion when Travis had "rejected" her. Example, she spies in his back window, sees Lisa and Travis, loses it, and voilà, the next day is assigned as the first time Travis abused her. Coincidence, not.

I've wondered why she chose Jan 22 as the pedo lie date. JM's cross of LaVa reminds. Taylor Searle told Flores right after the murder that Travis was fed up with the killer as early as January 2008, that in January he had actually told the killer he wanted her to move out of Mesa by the end of the month.

So msybe she chose January for that reason, and settled on Jan 22 after reviewing phone and text records to find a date that couldn't be flat out disproved.

OR. What I didn't remember at all was JM's suggestion that the killer came up with the pedo lie as a way of blackmailing Travis at the time. As in, try to make me leave and I will spread this lie about you. Geez. But JM definitely suggested that as possible.

I agree with all of the above.

I, too, just rewatched those tapes. Actually, I watched them 3 times, they were so fascinating to me. They were JM at his best, even though he sometimes let his anger get the better of him. I do note, however, that he doesn't, in fact, get in anyone's face: he often is as far away from the witness box as you can go, 'cos he consults his notes on the prosecution table or......paces around in rapid Juan-sized (i.e. small, lol) circles.

Most of the time, ALV didn't know where he was heading. That's where some of her rage came from. She is very, very, manipulative. And she uses manipulation all of the time to cover up her lack of smarts and her skewed (and narcissistic) way of looking at the world. She doesn't brook any kind of challenge (what did she think "cross" is, for goodness sake?). She must be just awful to be around.

I also watched the cross on the jury questions. All of JM's work is so well crafted. There's an introduction with hints (she's the stalker and DV perpetrator, ALV bias and lack of credentials), body of text with supporting examples, and then a restatement with some elaboration in the conclusion (development of stalking and Jodi as DV-er, ALV bias and lack of credentials).

The Snow White questioning is so "gotcha" to the DT! You can see Wilmott sitting there going "Whaaaa?"

I don't think JM quite followed through on the Snow White topic; his intention sneaked out but not pointedly. Maybe he was prevented from elaborating more, or maybe he thought the argument was too subtle and he abandoned it. I think he was trying to go with the concept that ALV was in the habit of turning fairy tales into stories of DV, and Jodi was just one more example. I wish he'd finished this up: I don't think it was, in fact, too subtle for his audience. And it would have blown ALV out of the water.

 

[Hope4More]

I too found that statement about Travis not liking the full face shot very striking, he never had time to voice any opinion about those pics...not if it was taken on the day she killed him. And I do believe that it was, given the pics shortly before where he's sitting down quickly enough to probably bang his nose on his knee and make his eye water, abrade his lip and make a trickle of blood come from his nose (as we see in that full face shot). But that statement, so out of left field, still hits me so weird.

She said it because she takes pleasure in remembering every detail of taking his life. That photo captures the moment when Travis became absolutely powerless but was still aware enough to be tormented by her before she struck.

The comment is similar to another of her sickest- that ". if I had killed Travis I don't think I would have stabbed him...I would have killed him in a more humane way.."

 

[Hope4More]

Odds and ends

JM closing, retrial


Connected letter she never sent to Abe (Feb 07) but texted to Travis to the failure of her strategy of manipulating Chris and Sky to convince Travis to commit to her (emails). Manipulation failed, then went for strategy of getting Travis jealous enough to commit. (Later...the silly lie that she was being stalked and Travis was too far away to help her. BWT about that one- she's already de-edifying Travis in that, spring 2007).

Also in his closing- he says flat out that the killer knew about Lisa in the fall of 2008.

Also- he reviews the lie about Helio text msg of May 2. (Day 38, 2 of 2, approx. @min 55.

Proof that it wasn't sent as text- besides the fact of too many characters per segment, the fact that no such texts are found in the text records of Travis Alexander.

Also points out the ridiculous nature of Travis saying in that "text" that he wanted to be her "muse," her Greek goddess.
(IMO the whole May 2 text was actually the email she sent to him on May 1 or 2).


(This closing is definitely weaker than his first. He sounds so tired, and his attacks on expert witnesses is more pointed and personal. Don't blame him one little bit, given their blatant lies and unprofessionalism on the stand, and given 7 years of having to prove over and over what an evil lying malicious murderer that is).

 

[pocketaccent]

[video=youtube;pPOigwYBnZY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPOigwYBnZY[/video]
In HD

As we now have much more information, texts etc, I decided to watch Lisa's testimony. Was quite entertaining when I couldn't help but notice a sharp contrast between the life of Lisa and JA on that day.

Lisa sitting pretty and married, with a 4 month old baby, great career, Diamond ring, watch, jewerly, didn't seem bitter toward JA, honest, confident, sweet, manicured hand.....And Travis desperately wanted to marry her.

JA? She savagely murdered a good man, her finger bent permanently resulting from stabbing him, no husband, no baby, no diamond ring, only shackles during transportation, trying very hard to look sweet and not jealous, but her bitterness comes right through... And Travis desperately wanted to get away from her.

 

[RickshawFan]

What was the story behind Desirée Freeman? I don't get her at all and I'd never seen her testimony. What was JM getting at? I don't understand why she's even up there as a witness.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

What was the story behind Desirée Freeman? I don't get her at all and I'd never seen her testimony. What was JM getting at? I don't understand why she's even up there as a witness.

I think she had the hots for Travis and Dan had it for Jodi. Maybe JM was pointing out their bias because of that?

Travis and the chicken dance with Desiree and Jodi running around talking his picture. Hmm why was Jodi there? Weren't they in different wards?




[video=youtu;M7DVF_S5ZpI]http://youtu.be/M7DVF_S5ZpI[/video]

 

[Caylee Advocate]

What was the story behind Desirée Freeman? I don't get her at all and I'd never seen her testimony. What was JM getting at? I don't understand why she's even up there as a witness.

Good question. JMO, she and her brother were weird!!! I don't know what her testimony provided other than "Travis was over the top" The girl was 13 at the time and couldn't recall WHY she felt "Travis was over the top." :doh: (I think it was over some silly little argument where the killer got out of the car to take a pic and Travis would act like he was leaving her) Like I said... weird people.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I think she had the hots for Travis and Dan had it for Jodi. Maybe JM was pointing out their bias because of that?

Travis and the chicken dance with Desiree and Jodi running around talking his picture. Hmm why was Jodi there? Weren't they in different wards?




BBM:

Oh I agree.

 

[RickshawFan]

Good question. JMO, she and her brother were weird!!! I don't know what her testimony provided other than "Travis was over the top" The girl was 13 at the time and couldn't recall WHY she felt "Travis was over the top." :doh: (I think it was over some silly little argument where the killer got out of the car to take a pic and Travis would act like he was leaving her) Like I said... weird people.

She can't recall anything in that testimony! But somehow JM has all kinds of information about what transpired in the car and on the trip, including another argument between TA and JA that lasted 1 1/2 hours? During a hike? DF seems to blank out about all of it.

Was JM just trying to turn her into a not credible witness?

 

[Hope4More]

Here's the real Travis:

3/18/08. He's dropped off Naps to Deanna while he goes to convention.

D: why is he rubbing his butt on the carpet? Did he learn that trick from watching you? Oh BURN.

T: he never did that with me. You're a bad influence.

D: hahaha.. Little crazy kept me up all night! I hope he's pooping on the carpet right now because that would be awesome.

T: we can only hope.

D: he took a dump on my carpet AND peed on my makeup! Hooray!

T: think of the hue that will give you.

D: Brilliant. Forget PPL. we're just going to get rich off of pee-infused cosmetics!

T: sounds like a Utah based mlm.

D: it's perfect.

 

[Hope4More]

The real Travis, texting with Deanna.


January 1st 2008.

T: Happy New Year, Deanna! I love you!!

D: thanks! I hope you had a fun night! I had a blast !

T: I'm glad to hear it. I was hoping so.

D: thanks . call me later, okay? Good night and happy new year. I love you!


Jan. 8, 2008.

D: The body bugg is the best thing ever happened to me... but I still hate you.

T: You need a gratitude bugg...

D: Get me one.... right now!!!!!!


Jan. 26, 2008

D: I'm going snowboarding for the first time tomorrow!
Wish me luck! Night, Travi..Love you.

T: Only bunny slope! Be careful. I love you too.

D: Don't worry. I'll be careful. Promise.

 

[Hope4More]

What was the story behind Desirée Freeman? I don't get her at all and I'd never seen her testimony. What was JM getting at? I don't understand why she's even up there as a witness.

I think both Freeman's were defense witnesses. Nurmi wanted them to testify because they were once the closest thing she had to actual friends, and to have them talk about what a meanie Travis was to the psycho killer.

IIRC JM was trying to point out that Desiree was just a kid at the time who mostly couldn't even remember what awful things T was supposed to have said and done.

 

[b_lab7410]

Good question. JMO, she and her brother were weird!!! I don't know what her testimony provided other than "Travis was over the top" The girl was 13 at the time and couldn't recall WHY she felt "Travis was over the top." :doh: (I think it was over some silly little argument where the killer got out of the car to take a pic and Travis would act like he was leaving her) Like I said... weird people.

That girl was weird, I thought that too when she got on stand. And she didn't seem like the type to analyze context, JA's not your typical female, she's not the type you have a typical 'relationship' with. She instigates passive aggressively (and aggressively of course).

But is she related to Dan Freeman? Because the Freemans were mentioned in Sky's book. They were included in the list of people who fell for JA's lies, and continued to support JA post-conviction for 'wrongful persecution.' Apparently they didn't see the error of their ways until much later (although to me, it would seem they generally fall into the category type of "hear no evil, see no evil"). Seemed like they were the last of the bunch to see JA for who she is.