Sentencing and beyond- Jodi Arias General Discussion #3

[Steve44]

What either of them really thought is maddeningly difficult to figure out, since she lied so much to him and he denied so much to himself about her.

This I'm confident of: the killer knew before she left Mesa that Mimi was NOT the one. I really don't think she ever felt threatened by Mimi, Cancun or not.

Lisa was the threat, start to finish. The killer put her all into destroying that relationship. By February 08 she thought she had finally succeeded.

But no. Travis begins expressing regrets about Lisa in March and never stops. Soon after the killer leaves Mesa Travis' regret about Lisa greatly intensifies. He even tells Chris at one point that he's chasing Mimi to help him try to forget about Lisa. That he's angry with himself for not being able to forget her, but that he just can't.

Their behavior towards each other was shaped by their attitudes and beliefs. Travis kept believing that the killer had to have some kind of conscience, and kept trying to account for her behavior and motivations from that angle, trying to see a logic that just wasn't there.

Arias could assess Travis and his feelings towards the people around him, and vice versa, and act in what she saw as her best interests, but she probably could not understand Travis' reaction, because he had a conscience and she didn't.

 

[Hope4More]

How did these texts not end up in the trial? I just don't get it. Demarte didn't bring them up, JM didn't grill ALV on them..... There is so much evidence of stalking.

No one even obliquely seems to mention them. I don't mean merely this one, but all the ones we've just received.

And as for ALV.....she should be prosecuted for fraud, IMO. Well, maybe that's what's happening at the AG's office.

There's no "talking behind his words". Travis is about as WYSIWYG as you can possibly get.


By the way, the fact that ALV made a clearly bad-faith assessment of these materials (not to mention evidently Falseca and the guy with the hairpiece) would that contribute to an Appeals evaluation that Jodi got an extremely fair trial? JA had so many people on the witness stand with wholesale fabrications, it was clear the proceedings were pitched through and through in her favor. There could have been 10 other minor procedural blips in her trial, but they were counterbalanced by a thousand gigantic improprieties in her favor.

I know you all don't agree, but I'm more and more thinking JSS had her head on correctly. Yes, she dragged the trials out, but she's managing the manipulator from hell, an attorney who is livid all the time and knows his client is a psychopath, and all kinds of alien subjects (like computerese from fake geeks). Now that we have more of Nurmi's point of view, it's pretty clear she had way more complexity on her plate than I think we realized. I'll bet she woke up dreading the day.

JSS first. My opinion of her as a judge hasn't changed. Yes, she was asked to be ringmaster of a circus, but that's her job.

After the fact, though, and especially after her impressive display at sentencing, I'm convinced JSS knew all along that the killer is a vindictive nasty dangerous psychopath and did everything in her power to ensure a solid conviction.

 

[RickshawFan]

JSS first. My opinion of her as a judge hasn't changed. Yes, she was asked to be ringmaster of a circus, but that's her job.

After the fact, though, and especially after her impressive display at sentencing, I'm convinced JSS knew all along that the killer is a vindictive nasty dangerous psychopath and did everything in her power to ensure a solid conviction.

I agree mostly, but I don't believe anyone has the qualifications or experience to manage that particular kind of a circus. It really was asking her to do the impossible. Thankless task, too.

 

[Steve44]

I agree mostly, but I don't believe anyone has the qualifications or experience to manage that particular kind of a circus. It really was asking her to do the impossible. Thankless task, too.

She certainly tolerated a lot from the defense, even bending the law to whatever tortured shape they demanded. It seemed unnecessary and even weak to many observers, but if she did it deliberately to insure a solid conviction because she was aware of the sometimes biased nature of DP appeals, then she's smarter than many gave her credit for.

 

[Hope4More]

April texts.

April 23.


5:40 pm. J to T: I was checking my domains and forgot that I have powertease.com

6:12pm. J to T: oh my gosh. I forward a cool email. check it out. No, its not junk. I need ideas!!

6:28. T to J. OK, later. how many megapixels is your camera?

6:31 p.m. J: 10.1 . why?

631 pm. T: I'm buying a camera

6:34 p.m. J: call me. lots to tell you important. Don't buy one until you talk to me.

6:35 p.m. T: ok

6:40. J: por que?

6:41. T: to take pics. Why else?

6:42. J: I think you sent that to the wrong person.

6:43 p.m. T: you said porque. I answered why.

6:46 p.m. J: oh I said that about your inquiries of my megapixels.

646 : T: and I said I need to buy a camera. we've already done this

6:49PM. I know. I sent porque before I received your answer. It must have gotten to you late.

Travis has a PPL conference call at 7PM, which she knows about since after she left Mesa she is suddenly in on the calls.

By 7:10 Travis leaves the call (seems to be a first). He soon texts all the PPL leaders supposed to be on the call- I left because only 2 of you showed up on time. Roll call is at 6:55. Tardiness de-edifies you and it de-edifies me. (Sloppy. We need to do better, let's do better next week).

He and the killer text about camera buying and warranties from 8:53-9:31 PM.

11:02pm. she texts him--" I think I've unwittingly become accustomed to your love language."


Travis flies to Utah.

 

[Steve44]

He and the killer text about camera buying and warranties from 8:53-9:31 PM.

11:02pm. she texts him--" I think I've unwittingly become accustomed to your love language."


Travis flies to Utah.

WTH does that mean, that even when Travis gives short answers, is polite but curt, and doesn't seem to want to engage in conversation with her for any length of time, it means he 'loves' her?

 

[minor4th]

April texts.


Chris Hughes is advising Travis how best to approach Mimi
to ask her to Cancun. Since Travis has dated her just a few times, and there doesn't seem to be a great deal of ongoing exchange, T is worried he'll spook her by asking.

Chris suggests exact language for T to use--- tell her you won 2 tickets to Cancun but can only use one, any possibility she could put it to good use and and come along, if not

THAT HE'LL PROBABLY GIVE IT TO CHRIS AND SKY HUGHES SO THEY CAN BRING THEIR NANNY.


Anyone else have a ding ding ding moment?

During interrogation by EF, when asked if it upset her that T was taking Mimi to Cancun, the killer said she didn't even know he was taking Mimi until after he died and someone told her.

That what she thought was that he was taking A BABYSITTER.


Sorry for screaming caps, should be bolded, posting by phone handicaps, but...

That can't be a coincidence. I always wondered why she'd mentioned a babysitter. Seemed an odd choice of pretend person to come up with. Maybe not.

Is there any way she could have had remote access to his phone texts while in Yreka? Or.....another indication she read through his text messages when she was there on June 4?

Hmm. Another perspective for these April texts. How furious she would have been reading them, perhaps as he slept not knowing yet she was there?

I think Travis just told her that he was giving the ticket to Chris Hughes for their babysitter. Until Mimi accepted, that's what he thought he was going to do to wipe out his debt with the Hughes.

I think she had access to his text messages remotely - or at least had access to his phone activity to know who he was texting and calling, and when.

 

[Hope4More]

Helio phone related, reading the tea leaves (and more).


April 28.

10:09 AM. J texts T - can u text me LS's email, please and thank you.

10:13 AM. J: thanks again. You didn't call me back, brat.

10:16. SHE texts the email address to TRAVIS. (wth).

10:16. Travis texts- "yes."

10:16.. J: Sorry, duh. That's the first one on my new phone. Oops!!

 

[Hope4More]

I think Travis just told her that he was giving the ticket to Chris Hughes for their babysitter. Until Mimi accepted, that's what he thought he was going to do to wipe out his debt with the Hughes.

I think she had access to his text messages remotely - or at least had access to his phone activity to know who he was texting and calling, and when.

Please someone explain how she could have had remote access to his phone? How would that work? Would she be able to plant texts on his phone if so?

At the end of April Travis sends texts to Deanna that she doesn't receive and it causes a (little) problem.

Seems VERY coincidental that the only time T has a problem receiving or sending texts it is with Lisa, Mimi and Deanna.

 

[Hope4More]

WTH does that mean, that even when Travis gives short answers, is polite but curt, and doesn't seem to want to engage in conversation with her for any length of time, it means he 'loves' her?

I really wish these texts were freely available, or that I could cut and paste and post all of them here.

It makes a big difference to see the full exchanges, and especially, the context of how they fit into the context of what else Travis was doing and saying at the time.


Without that context, even full quotes by one or the other are often very distorted. Partial quotes (hello, ALV) tsken out of that daily context? No chance of getting an accurate sense of WTH.

 

[Val1]

Please someone explain how she could have had remote access to his phone? How would that work? Would she be able to plant texts on his phone if so?

At the end of April Travis sends texts to Deanna that she doesn't receive and it causes a (little) problem.

Seems VERY coincidental that the only time T has a problem receiving or sending texts it is with Lisa, Mimi and Deanna.

Remote Cell Phone Spy - SMS Reporting/GPS Tracking/Live Microphone Access and MORE!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQfKHf59A4s

How To Send FREE Text Messages- SMS Any Computer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diGzKq7ORyM

 

[geevee]

The more I thought about it, the more I've decided that Jodi got a shower in a long-haul truck in return for a "favor". Plenty of time for this when you're experienced.

~Fairly Graphic Warning~

But wouldn't she have had to show up and barter the shower while streaked with blood? I'm relatively sure she cleaned up at Travis', I think some of the water at the sink came from her brushing her wet hair, I know Flores or JM mentioned that water had been run in the sink after blood got on it but I don't believe that to be the case, I think the water came first from Travis since he was also freshly out of the shower but most from her drippy hair. I also tend to think the back stabs came before he got to the sink, either in the shower or over by the toilet closet door.

 

[Hope4More]

Will post additional quotes and info from texts in the Travis journal and text thread, not here.

Will copy earlier text quotes from here to that thread at some point when I'm able.

 

[Hope4More]

How did these texts not end up in the trial? I just don't get it. Demarte didn't bring them up, JM didn't grill ALV on them..... There is so much evidence of stalking.

No one even obliquely seems to mention them. I don't mean merely this one, but all the ones we've just received.

And as for ALV.....she should be prosecuted for fraud, IMO. Well, maybe that's what's happening at the AG's office.

There's no "talking behind his words". Travis is about as WYSIWYG as you can possibly get.


By the way, the fact that ALV made a clearly bad-faith assessment of these materials (not to mention evidently Falseca and the guy with the hairpiece) would that contribute to an Appeals evaluation that Jodi got an extremely fair trial? JA had so many people on the witness stand with wholesale fabrications, it was clear the proceedings were pitched through and through in her favor. There could have been 10 other minor procedural blips in her trial, but they were counterbalanced by a thousand gigantic improprieties in her favor.

I know you all don't agree, but I'm more and more thinking JSS had her head on correctly. Yes, she dragged the trials out, but she's managing the manipulator from hell, an attorney who is livid all the time and knows his client is a psychopath, and all kinds of alien subjects (like computerese from fake geeks). Now that we have more of Nurmi's point of view, it's pretty clear she had way more complexity on her plate than I think we realized. I'll bet she woke up dreading the day.

Rickshaw...about ALV etc.

We know (if she told the truth) that she didn't see all the texts/emails etc., and neither did Dr.F for penalty retrial.


Gonna be blunt here. Putting aside everything else, its impossible to read the texts and not see a messy, complicated , and totally unhealthy relationship between the two. The DT did not make that part up.

Leaving everything else aside again, what emerges from the Dec-April texts (plus what we know from other sources) is that Travis forgave her, again and again, for things almost any of us would find unforgivable, and he believed her again and again and again even when every single one of his close friends was telling him she was sick, not OK, not to be trusted.

Re-read his text to her about his stolen journals. He KNOWS she stole them. He knows that's she tried to hurt him repeatedly, and what he does is to go down on his knees and to beg her...not this too. This is too far.

And when she replies with....oh, too bad, so sorry? He buries it all again and acts like it never happened.

Looking at this pattern, in place through April at least, I can understand how easy it would be for an ALV to discard notions of Travis being afraid of her, or that something as simple as stalking was going on.

IMO, the only way ALV (and Nurmi) can spin this the way they did is because of the gender of the victim. Had the gender roles been reversed it would be more obvious what was going on.

 

[Hope4More]

"Then come back as soon as you can and be here for me. I miss you so much, I can't stand it anymore" was what she wanted to hear.

I think so too. Am posting fuller quote on Travis journal and texts thread in a few minutes. .

 

[Frigga]

^^^ Very well said Hope- thanks for your insight!

 

[Frigga]

So, I'm confused. Did Travis never get his journals back from the killer? What was the journal we did see of Travis during the PP retrial? TIA

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

JSS first. My opinion of her as a judge hasn't changed. Yes, she was asked to be ringmaster of a circus, but that's her job.

After the fact, though, and especially after her impressive display at sentencing, I'm convinced JSS knew all along that the killer is a vindictive nasty dangerous psychopath and did everything in her power to ensure a solid conviction.

I wonder what screaming fit Jodi threw in the judge"s chambers the day of the green shirt and JSS not backing down on the sex phone call, and Jodi's tears when she was brought back into the courtroom.


YesorNo ha the book and is giving her opinion of it on the sidebar. It's mighty interesting.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Snipped from article:




"I wonder what Darryl Brewer saw in her. Could it be that she worked hard and was very nice to his son? Or was she a cult leader working to pay the mortgage? And what about Matt? Did he remain a good friend after he cheated on her because she had a hold on him? She could not make him faithful with her special power? This woman never had a free ride in her life."


ME:

WTF trial did she watch to come to this conclusion I wonder? She probably follows the nutty supporters site as most of the comments are from those foul mouthed idiots



http://www.thetroublewithjustice.com/raising-the-bar-but-certainly-not-in-arizona/

 

[RickshawFan]

~Fairly Graphic Warning~

But wouldn't she have had to show up and barter the shower while streaked with blood? I'm relatively sure she cleaned up at Travis', I think some of the water at the sink came from her brushing her wet hair, I know Flores or JM mentioned that water had been run in the sink after blood got on it but I don't believe that to be the case, I think the water came first from Travis since he was also freshly out of the shower but most from her drippy hair. I also tend to think the back stabs came before he got to the sink, either in the shower or over by the toilet closet door.

I think she removed some of the blood in Travis's bathroom, but she didn't have time to remove all of it. She has to get blood out of every crevice in her body, from under fingernails, up her nose, in her shoes....Even carrying a bloody towel and bloody weapons to the car would have bloodied her. I don't believe she would have approached a trucker "streaked with blood." Knowing Jodi, she could have lied about that, anyway. There's always the "accident with menses" possibility. And there's zero problem finding a trucker with a BJ on offer.