Sentencing and beyond- Jodi Arias General Discussion #3

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Hope4More said:
How odd. The State investigates, charges, arrests, jails, and puts the killer on trial, and.....is not allowed to know who visits her in jail?
Click to expand...

Why did Nurmi say in his book that JM should have used the jail house calls against the killer??? Was he allowed to hear the calls but not see the visitation record? That makes no sense unless Nurmi lied. (which wouldn't surprise me in the least)
 
RickshawFan said:
I don't think what Dan F did with the backpack was necessarily strange, although I agree that there is a certain crossing of boundaries here. We don't know, but Jodi may already have been complaining about the weight. Jodi might have asked him to check it out and then he took it upon himself to tell her not to take certain items.

Jodi might have (probably did) said that she was unable to carry certain items that she was obligated to carry (like lunch and water).

In other words, there may have been context for Dan F's behavior that really didn't matter in the trial. Not that I don't think the Freemans aren't squirrel-y, but there was probably a lot of drama going on that contributed to the shampoo-removal event.

For reasons I've listed a few posts back, Jodi should absolutely not have been going on a hike, let alone into a canyon with all that stuff. She was putting 3 others at risk. They could have told her not to come on the trail, but they might not have thought of that. If she'd shown up at a trailhead like that with a group I was leading, I would not have allowed her to participate. If she was acting up even before the pack weight became an issue, I would have left her behind on that account as well..

And Jodi was irked because Jodi was irked. She's like that.
Click to expand...

Yup, I never underestimate that girl, she usually gives off signs prior to going off. I am sure things escalated. Given her nature, I'd have taken one look at her overly done hair/face and felt the pack for sure enough, a blow-dryer and gotten pissed. If she didn't take out necessary items and I still felt the electronics/compact cases, I'd have to just remove those items rather than have her make a scene mid-hike. Tough noogies for her. I am SURE they warned somebody like her on what it feels like to carry the slightest pound on a hike.
 
Hope4More said:
Odds and ends.

Haven't posted this before, but the April -May texts make pretty clear that Travis thought it very possible he would lose his leadership position within PPL. Chris Hughes didn't disagree with this expressed fear- he told Travis that Travis needed to make the right friends and allies within PPL, stat. This was at the end of April, 2008.

Travis wrote in his journal of that time that he was heartedly tired of PPL politics. He began missing conference calls, skipping out on PPL events, falling behind on meeting PPL quotas.

He told Deanna he had finally found a new calling. I think he was referring to writing. Writing his blog, writing his book. He wanted to inspire others, and in the last few weeks of his life has become quite introspective and focused on that task.
Click to expand...

No offense to PPL, but I always thought that Travis didn't have the heart of a PPL salesperson...limited expression due to the business end.
 
pocketaccent said:
Regarding backpack-havasupie

[video=youtube;HTpvEnF4ubA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTpvEnF4ubA[/video]

Watch from 29:15 to 32:00

JA shoved 10-15 lbs of her beauty products into Daniel's backpack. And Daniel took them out because they were planning to hike 13 miles and he didn't want to carry them.
Click to expand...
Dan Freeman says the backpack with all of Jodi's crap in it was his, but does he say it was for her to use on the trip? The audio wasn't crystal clear on what he said about it, but he seemed to suggest she was using his (spare) backpack because his concern was that the pack would eventually become too heavy for her and that he and/or Travis would ultimately end up carrying it for her.

Anyway... thanks for the youtube clip and thanks to everyone else, too, for your comments.

I still think Travis and Dan should have told her, "hey, if you want to take all that unnecessary crap with you, hair dryer and all, be my guest. Put a boat anchor in there for all we care, but we're not going to be your personal pack mules and carry it for you."

And of course using Dan and Travis as her personal pack mules is probably what the Goddess/Princess had planned on, counted on and expected all along. Good gravy, she just ruins everything!
 
pocketaccent said:
Regarding backpack-havasupie

[video=youtube;HTpvEnF4ubA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTpvEnF4ubA[/video]

Watch from 29:15 to 32:00

JA shoved 10-15 lbs of her beauty products into Daniel's backpack. And Daniel took them out because they were planning to hike 13 miles and he didn't want to carry them.
Click to expand...

I had totally misremembered this backpack incident. I thought it was Travis that had unpacked it and CMJA was mad at him for doing so. It was Dan who unpacked it and CMJA was mad anyway. What a joy she must have been to be around...
 
Dan Freeman was also the person feeding CMJA info about the ongoing investigation into Travis' death, even when he knew CMJA was the primary POI. His ongoing communication with CMJA caused more than a few headaches for the detectives, to the point where Flores told the Hughes that they had a different POI, so the info train would stop. I truly believe Dan Freeman had a crush on CMJA as love tends to be blind, even the unrequited kind.
 
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1305/02/ng.01.html



DAN FREEMAN, FRIEND OF TRAVIS AND JODI (via telephone): Oh, it`s good to be here. Thank you, Nancy.


GRACE: Dan, you stated that you observed an argument between Arias and Travis Alexander, what happened?

FREEMAN: Well, which argument, the one over the backpack or the one - - the littler one where we were --

GRACE: Yes.

FREEMAN: Down in Havasupai?

GRACE: The backpack.

FREEMAN: The backpack. The -- well, I guess the short version of it is that, you know, Jodi brought down her backpack and set it on the table, we were getting ready to hike down into Havasupai, and to leave for that hike. And I picked it up just to move it off the table and in picking it up her pack probably weighed 45, 50 pounds, it was a heavy pack. And I knew there was no way she was going to carry it. And it would end up either Travis or I or both of us would split and carry it down.

So she went back upstairs to finish getting ready. I just opened the outside pockets to see what it was, and it was full of lotions, potions, make-up, things women want to make themselves look nice. And I started unloading some of the stuff that -- me, I was like there`s no way she`s going to need any of these camping and this will be doing a huge favor.

GRACE: Hey, hey, hey.

FREEMAN: And she came --

GRACE: Number one, not all women that go camping take, quote, "lotions and potions," so don`t be throwing us all in the same pot.

FREEMAN: I do know that.

GRACE: But, everybody --

(CROSSTALK)

FREEMAN: I was a survival instructor for a while and I can tell you there are some who take hardly anything. But the --

GRACE: This is Dan Freeman, everyone, a close friend of Travis Alexander who is taking your calls. He is a defense witness.

Go ahead, dear.

FREEMAN: She came back downstairs, and as she saw the pack, and it was opened, there`s things outside, she started to get frustrated, angry about that, and started to go, why did you take things out of my pack? And Travis said something back to her. And to me, what I saw was that the backpack wasn`t the cause of whatever went on. I mean, it started it. To me it was the straw that broke the camel`s back, and there had been something under the surface and from my perspective and everything I`d seen it was where they stood in the relationship.

Jodi wanted more, Travis didn`t want to go more. But they still hung out together. And that was to me --
 
Wing Ding said:
Dan Freeman says the backpack with all of Jodi's crap in it was his, but does he say it was for her to use on the trip? The audio wasn't crystal clear on what he said about it, but he seemed to suggest she was using his (spare) backpack because his concern was that the pack would eventually become too heavy for her and that he and/or Travis would ultimately end up carrying it for her.

Anyway... thanks for the youtube clip and thanks to everyone else, too, for your comments.

I still think Travis and Dan should have told her, "hey, if you want to take all that unnecessary crap with you, hair dryer and all, be my guest. Put a boat anchor in there for all we care, but we're not going to be your personal pack mules and carry it for you."

And of course using Dan and Travis as her personal pack mules is probably what the Goddess/Princess had planned on, counted on and expected all along. Good gravy, she just ruins everything!
Click to expand...

No one has made mention of the hammocks (which were probably rented from the tribe), but we do know Travis organized and booked the trip. We also know from DF's testimony that Travis wanted to minimize physical stuff from Jodi:that's why DF went along in the first place. I'll bet Travis ordered up single hammocks. DF makes clear they "all slept in their hammocks". That's not "Jodi and Travis shared a double".

I just soooo think there wasn't as much sex going on the whole time as Jodi says. Travis kept pushing her away and demanding she be less physical. He didn't like her draped all over him. Lisa seemed to mention this as well. Plus, TA stated it overtly on the New York trip. In every photo with the two together, he pulls away, except maybe the one at the falls where she's sitting on him and has her hand around his neck forcing him to look at the camera. Eeeew...
 
Caylee Advocate said:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1305/02/ng.01.html



DAN FREEMAN, FRIEND OF TRAVIS AND JODI (via telephone): Oh, it`s good to be here. Thank you, Nancy.


GRACE: Dan, you stated that you observed an argument between Arias and Travis Alexander, what happened?

FREEMAN: Well, which argument, the one over the backpack or the one - - the littler one where we were --

GRACE: Yes.

FREEMAN: Down in Havasupai?

GRACE: The backpack.

FREEMAN: The backpack. The -- well, I guess the short version of it is that, you know, Jodi brought down her backpack and set it on the table, we were getting ready to hike down into Havasupai, and to leave for that hike. And I picked it up just to move it off the table and in picking it up her pack probably weighed 45, 50 pounds, it was a heavy pack. And I knew there was no way she was going to carry it. And it would end up either Travis or I or both of us would split and carry it down.

So she went back upstairs to finish getting ready. I just opened the outside pockets to see what it was, and it was full of lotions, potions, make-up, things women want to make themselves look nice. And I started unloading some of the stuff that -- me, I was like there`s no way she`s going to need any of these camping and this will be doing a huge favor.

GRACE: Hey, hey, hey.

FREEMAN: And she came --

GRACE: Number one, not all women that go camping take, quote, "lotions and potions," so don`t be throwing us all in the same pot.

FREEMAN: I do know that.

GRACE: But, everybody --

(CROSSTALK)

FREEMAN: I was a survival instructor for a while and I can tell you there are some who take hardly anything. But the --

GRACE: This is Dan Freeman, everyone, a close friend of Travis Alexander who is taking your calls. He is a defense witness.

Go ahead, dear.

FREEMAN: She came back downstairs, and as she saw the pack, and it was opened, there`s things outside, she started to get frustrated, angry about that, and started to go, why did you take things out of my pack? And Travis said something back to her. And to me, what I saw was that the backpack wasn`t the cause of whatever went on. I mean, it started it. To me it was the straw that broke the camel`s back, and there had been something under the surface and from my perspective and everything I`d seen it was where they stood in the relationship.

Jodi wanted more, Travis didn`t want to go more. But they still hung out together. And that was to me --
Click to expand...

As I figured above, that pack weighed a lot. By enumerating potential contents (e.g. hairdryer) I had guessed it at 60 lbs, including water (4 lbs) plus Nalgenes (1.5 lb). And as I surmised, there was a leader's reason for reducing pack weight: DF's survival instructor background explains this perspective and his insistence on going lighter. And being assertive about it.

A goal of 13 miles with a 60 lb pack, by the way, is rarely expected or undertaken. Except in the military.

There was a high likelihood of Jodi getting injured with that weight. Before TA or DF could offload her weight. Down in a canyon, this would have required search and rescue to haul her out. Up out of a canyon. It is incredibly unfair and selfish for anyone to be heading out on a hike anticipating they might need a rescue team. You just don't. I'll bet DF knew this and was doing his best to prevent it.
 
Caylee Advocate said:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1305/02/ng.01.html



DAN FREEMAN, FRIEND OF TRAVIS AND JODI (via telephone): Oh, it`s good to be here. Thank you, Nancy.


GRACE: Dan, you stated that you observed an argument between Arias and Travis Alexander, what happened?

FREEMAN: Well, which argument, the one over the backpack or the one - - the littler one where we were --

GRACE: Yes.

FREEMAN: Down in Havasupai?

GRACE: The backpack.

FREEMAN: The backpack. The -- well, I guess the short version of it is that, you know, Jodi brought down her backpack and set it on the table, we were getting ready to hike down into Havasupai, and to leave for that hike. And I picked it up just to move it off the table and in picking it up her pack probably weighed 45, 50 pounds, it was a heavy pack. And I knew there was no way she was going to carry it. And it would end up either Travis or I or both of us would split and carry it down.

So she went back upstairs to finish getting ready. I just opened the outside pockets to see what it was, and it was full of lotions, potions, make-up, things women want to make themselves look nice. And I started unloading some of the stuff that -- me, I was like there`s no way she`s going to need any of these camping and this will be doing a huge favor.

GRACE: Hey, hey, hey.

FREEMAN: And she came --

GRACE: Number one, not all women that go camping take, quote, "lotions and potions," so don`t be throwing us all in the same pot.

FREEMAN: I do know that.

GRACE: But, everybody --

(CROSSTALK)

FREEMAN: I was a survival instructor for a while and I can tell you there are some who take hardly anything. But the --

GRACE: This is Dan Freeman, everyone, a close friend of Travis Alexander who is taking your calls. He is a defense witness.

Go ahead, dear.

FREEMAN: She came back downstairs, and as she saw the pack, and it was opened, there`s things outside, she started to get frustrated, angry about that, and started to go, why did you take things out of my pack? And Travis said something back to her. And to me, what I saw was that the backpack wasn`t the cause of whatever went on. I mean, it started it. To me it was the straw that broke the camel`s back, and there had been something under the surface and from my perspective and everything I`d seen it was where they stood in the relationship.

Jodi wanted more, Travis didn`t want to go more. But they still hung out together. And that was to me --
Click to expand...
I see, so JA borrowed Dan's spare backpack for the trip. And filled it to 45-50 lbs, about 10-15 lbs being the beauty products. What horror it must have been for her to get arrested and not have a single makeup item by her side. :hilarious:
 
@Caylee Advocate

Thanks! I found the quote in this transcript from JM that tells us exactly what the deal was with LaV.:cheers:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1305/02/ng.01.html

"And that is stalking behavior, irrespective of what Alyce LaViolette has to say. This individual, Alyce LaViolette, who has problems with the truth when she spoke to you about how many times she had testified on behalf of men (ph), this individual who, quite frankly, misrepresented that to you when she was testifying."
 
samspace070 said:
Like I said before, Dan turned out to help the prosecution but at first he was not so forthcoming in his testimony, but that awful sister of his was downright hostile about Travis and outright lied according to the story the brother told.
Click to expand...

Sorry my post are always so brief...I'm feeding the baby when I'm on here and often typing one-handed...

I haven't rewatched his testimony in a while, but I seem to remember it been quite visible in his face/body language when Dan Freeman caught on to what was going on (trashing Travis). He really did seem to be caught off guard.
 
Val1 said:
@Caylee Advocate

Thanks! I found the quote in this transcript from JM that tells us exactly what the deal was with LaV.:cheers:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1305/02/ng.01.html

"And that is stalking behavior, irrespective of what Alyce LaViolette has to say. This individual, Alyce LaViolette, who has problems with the truth when she spoke to you about how many times she had testified on behalf of men (ph), this individual who, quite frankly, misrepresented that to you when she was testifying."
Click to expand...


Thank you again Val.
 
Caylee Advocate said:
LMAO, yes, it does appear that Dan wasn't gonna' lie for the butcheress.
Click to expand...

In fact, she seems to be intensely focusing on him, shooting daggers like she has malicious intention. It seems like she wanted to intimidate him on stand... woah. Was she like that towards all male witnesses? I forget, Ryan Burns, Det Flores, that guy that had drama with her.. Abe, I am gonna watch back. She probably switches from look demure, to I hate you face. Lol, just insane. Is she not aware that she looks like the reaper? Oy :eek:
 
b_lab7410 said:
In fact, she seems to be intensely focusing on him, shooting daggers like she has malicious intention. It seems like she wanted to intimidate him on stand... woah. Was she like that towards all male witnesses? I forget, Ryan Burns, Det Flores, that guy that had drama with her.. Abe, I am gonna watch back. She probably switches from look demure, to I hate you face. Lol, just insane. Is she not aware that she looks like the reaper? Oy :eek:
Click to expand...


Yes, she was giving him the stink eye. Oh, I found a transcript of Juan's closing. Here is the link...

http://crimeandcourtsnews.blogspot.com/2013/05/transcript-juan-martinez-closing.html#.Vm46uJrSlwE
 
After the second retrial, wasn't it indicated to the DT that they had to start preparing their client for an inevitable sentence of "natural life" instead of "possibility of parole"? I wonder who had the "preparation" task? Willmott? Nurmi? I wonder what that scene was like, how many visits to the jail it took, what their strategy was? Or did they just convey it to Jodi in passing at the courthouse, order her to "get over it", and consider it done?
 
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