Separating FACT from fiction

[starpatch]

Jayelles,
You did a great job. Thanks.

 

[roving_ranger]

I have been lurking for some time and have read through many threads and posts, but I have not been able to find a listing of the major players and their relationships. I can figure out most initials, but there are a few that just can't determine who they are or what part they play. Rather than starting a new thread, I thought I would ask it here. Does anyone know of a listing of all people involved and there relationships to the case?
Thanks!

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Yeah, here's the first page that lists people closest to the Rs. If you scroll down and go to the other pages linked at the bottom, you can see who the lawyers are, the law enforcement, etc - it explains everyone.

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/6502/primer/primer1_fam.html

 

[SherriRN]

Hi. This is an excellent thread. Have been away for awhile but am glad to see people are focusing on fact vs. non-fact or fiction.

If I recall correctly, I believe that the evidence of previous sexual activity was possible but not stated as fact. The information in the autopsy that was released was suggestive but inconclusive, again if I remember correctly. I once did an in depth review of the autopsy and translated it in to layman's terms, but I don't have it handy at the moment.

 

[aspidistra]

Hi. This is an excellent thread. Have been away for awhile but am glad to see people are focusing on fact vs. non-fact or fiction.

If I recall correctly, I believe that the evidence of previous sexual activity was possible but not stated as fact. The information in the autopsy that was released was suggestive but inconclusive, again if I remember correctly. I once did an in depth review of the autopsy and translated it in to layman's terms, but I don't have it handy at the moment.

The experts and the armchair sleuths are divided on whether the word "chronic" means abuse prior to the evening of the 25th or not. Her pediatrician testified that he had seen no sign of abuse. It must boil down to what the writer of the autopsy meant by his term "chronic". Laymen think it means longstanding. It might not mean that in the autopsy report. It's been argued back and forth on TV and on the internet so there are several places to find these debates (and books). I haven't seen any one central place where all interpretations can be found but there may be one.

 

[Hyatt]

Fact: A deliberate and sustained force was required to create the deep furrow around JBR's neck. This can only be reasonably construed as deadly force. This is supported by evidence, including local hemorrhaging that would not have occurred if she was already dead.

Fact: The strangulation was not staged. JBR was strangled.

Fact: Hitting over the head with a blunt instrument is common in murder and attempted murder, including some infamous ones.

Fact: JBR's fractured skull is most likely attributed to the use of additional deadly force, since its already been established that deadly force was being used.

Fact: JBR was most likely hit over the head with a blunt instrument.

Fact: The cause of death was asphyxia by strangulation associated with craniocerebral trauma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JonBenet_Ramsey).

NOT FACT: Just because she died of strangulation does not necessarily mean that the blow came after.

NOT FACT: Just because she actually DID die of strangulation as you state does not mean that there was no "staged strangulation".

Meaning: The blow (accidental or not) (but probably as a result of someone losing it, imo) could have rendered her unconscious, making the perp think that she was already dead. The perp then could have attempted a staged strangulation which could have been the REAL cause of death. Sound complicated? Not really. And it is what encompasses all contradictory theories regarding this matter.

FACT: Henry Lee believes that an accidental death is a possibility here. I doubt that he is thinking of an accidental strangulation but rather of an accidental blow. Now why would the adult Ramseys cover up a truly innocent accident? IMO, because the "accident" occurred during a confrontation between family members.

JMO

 

[RAMP]

FACT - DNA found in JB's panties were tested to confirm it is not the DNA of a Ramsey male.

This is not a hard fact. IF, and only if, the sample was not mixed, then the sample was a male, and not a Ramsey.

If the sample was mixed, and we have no way of knowing whether it was or not, then all bets are off.

(This may have already been covered. I'm catching up.)

 

[aussiesheila]

As far as I know the only individuals whose DNA has been compared with the DNA found on the panties are:

JR
BMcR
FW
MP
JMK

Does anyone one know if the following people have had their DNA compared?

JB?
GM?
DP?
CG?
CW?

 

[Chrishope]

The experts and the armchair sleuths are divided on whether the word "chronic" means abuse prior to the evening of the 25th or not. Her pediatrician testified that he had seen no sign of abuse. It must boil down to what the writer of the autopsy meant by his term "chronic". Laymen think it means longstanding. It might not mean that in the autopsy report. It's been argued back and forth on TV and on the internet so there are several places to find these debates (and books). I haven't seen any one central place where all interpretations can be found but there may be one.

Chronic has a well accepted meaning in medicine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_(medicine)

Whether or not the injuries are consistant with chronic abuse might be open to question, but the term chronic itself really isn't. Chronic would mean before the night of the 25/26.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

And as to the pediatrician testifying he saw no signs of abuse, when was the last time he inspected JonBenet vaginally for signs of abuse? It was a good bit before she was killed, and it isn't too far out there to conclude perhaps he hadn't seen any abuse because it happened after he last examined her but before she was killed. And why are his medical records sealed and kept away? What is he hiding?

 

[Kortnie]

I agree with Dr. Henry Lee that the whole thing happened as the result of an accident. Covered-up to protect Burke, I believe.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Fact: Coroner's report notes additional injuries to JBR's neck, in addition to the deep furrow created by the garrote.

Fact: Just because 2nd ligature was found loose doesn't automatically mean it was always loose.

Fact: Ransom note author places JR at the phone at 8-10 AM on Dec 27, not Dec 26.

Fact: No DNA from any R is reported to be found under JBR's fingernails. The DNA found there belongs to someone else.

Fact: No DNA from any R is reported to be found in JBR's underwear, mixed in with JBR's blood. The DNA found there also belongs to someone else, known to be male.

 

[IrishMist]

Fact: Coroner's report notes additional injuries to JBR's neck, in addition to the deep furrow created by the garrote.

Fact: Just because 2nd ligature was found loose doesn't automatically mean it was always loose.

Fact: Ransom note author places JR at the phone at 8-10 AM on Dec 27, not Dec 26.

This is not a fact, it is an unknown. No one besides the killer(s) knows exactly what they meant by the word "tomorrow."

Fact: No DNA from any R is reported to be found under JBR's fingernails. The DNA found there belongs to someone else.

Fact: No DNA from any R is reported to be found in JBR's underwear, mixed in with JBR's blood. The DNA found there also belongs to someone else, known to be male.

Fact: That someone else may or may not be the killer(s).

Also Fact: That DNA may have nothing to do with the murder.

 

[BBB167893]

I agree that DNA under the fingernails could be totally irrelevant, but the DNA in her panties?

Ask Mike Kane.

 

[DeeDee249]

The "odor about her" was an odor of decay first mentioned by LA. She noticed it as soon as she was brought up from the basement. In one of her earlier statements, she mentions that JBR was obviously dead, as she was in full rigor with arms straight over her head with no support. She was white, her lips were blue and there was an odor of decay.
It was about approximately 12 hours from JBR's death to the time LA saw JR coming up from the basement holding her straight up, using the generally accepted time of death of around midnight. Decomposition starts in less than half an hour, and that odor begins in as little as 3-4 hours with a body indoors, even in a cool basement.

 

[DeeDee249]

Yes, to a degree. Decomposition starts INSIDE a corpse first. Nearly always in the intestine area, where bacteria are plentiful. That starts to take place as soon as oxygen replenishment in the cells stops with the cessation of breathing. Anaerobic bacteria begin activity immediatele. I didn't mean the type of decomposition you were thinking of. Yes, in a cool basement it would take a few days at least.
But the type that would cause the "odor of decay" that LA detected would certainly have begun by 12 hours after death.
The autopsy noted "autolysis" in a few areas. Autolysis is self-digestion by an organ- it occurs when the organ is denied nutrients, glucose etc. which in life is delivered by the blood. With death, blood stops circulating right away. And the blood remaining in the vessels is depleted of oxygen.

 

[anne11]

Please could someone tell me where the "chronic" abuse was mentioned, I've forgotten where I read it.

 

[BBB167893]

Please could someone tell me where the "chronic" abuse was mentioned, I've forgotten where I read it.

No sweat, anne11. It's mentioned on pages 557 and 560 of "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town," the beginning of chapter 24 in Thomas's book, the Ann Bardach "Vanity Fair" article, in a 2006 FOXNews interview, in Wendy Murphy's book "And Justice For Some), in Haney's interview with Patsy, just to name a few.

 

[anne11]

Thank you SuperDave

 

[BBB167893]

Thank you SuperDave

My pleasure.