Shannan Gilbert Found, death declared an accident. #2

[Peter Brendt]

Of course this is just pure speculation...maybe shannon ( being in the business) had heard stories of the missing escorts in nj and had that fear in the back of her mind which caused her to panic and run away from an imagined or real threat from her client and or driver. Maybe they weren't the sk's but she Believed them to be. What I'm trying to say is maybe there were some urban legands she heard about a serial killer in the area long before there was proof. That might explain her thinking they were trying to kill her. Although I still dont quite believe that. Just a thought!

There's one factor, everyone seems to forget: SG was a prostitute. Prostitutes are well aware, their business is dangerous. While an SK for them still appears as some abstract threat (don't forget, when SG went out to JB, nothing was known about SKs in the area), the crazy john is a permanent threat. And someone, who lives in permanent fear, suffers from a bipolar disorder and refuses to take the meds, using drugs plus alcohol, is pretty prone to drug induced paranoid episodes. So this is the mere possibility.
Now lets talk about evidence: LISK obviously didn't know anything about SG. One would think, an SK would remember at least the fact, he had killed someone around there. But LISK didn't. He killed ALC and placed her body in his trophy garden, not aware, something had happened. Ergo: LISK had no idea about SG and that is prove enough for me, he didn't kill her.
But if that isn't enough: JB and the drifter sat around for 18 minutes knowing, SG was on the phone with the police. Now which wannabe-killer would do that? And then the let her escape from the house? After that point, to make any foul-play theory, you have to include MP in the conspiracy to kill SG. That makes three persons. Do you think, someone like LISK shares what he gets out of his murders? But the chaos isn't at the end yet. Our wannebe-murders JB and the drifter still haven't left the sofa. Nobody sees them searching for SG. The only one who is seen searching her is MP because Coletti sees him. Now, at this point, we have to include Coletti into the conspiracy. That makes 4 persons, of which two never had any contact with SG before and two, who, if the conspiracy would have really happened would have known, they are easily identified and connected to the victim. Circumstances under which every killer would postpone his plans. But no ... Coletti later testifies, he saw SG running direction marsh, the very same marsh, she was later found in. She has already shown signs of paranoid and delusional behavior, so that point is clear.
The only effectively unknown point is, did she drown or did she first fell victim to a stroke or heart attack (both risks connected to combinations of drugs and alcohol and also to the stress of acute paranoia) and maybe drowned when she was unconscious or didn't drown at all and died from the primary cause, heart attack, stroke,or even body-overheating (also pretty common in connection with ecstasy and alcohol).
So, putting all this together, there is no way in hell, SG was killed by anybody. The maximal case one could make here, would be negligent manslaughter is someone can prove, it was JB's drug stash on the table that night.

 

[Redbird]

How could you possibly know who was in Brewer's house when Shannan dialed 911 unless you were there? How is it obvious the LISK knew nothing about Shannan? How is it you know the drifter was sitting on the couch? The account I read by Coletti was of Shannan running down Anchor Way, not into the marsh. Your account sounds more like fiction than reality to me. I am allowed to have an opinion about this case just as you are. I don't really need a reply. Just want to point out to a new poster that your comments are only your opinion and not facts in the case.

 

[otto]

I'm not convinced that this was accidental. After watching the recent program, I understood that police theory includes her stripping down, including shoes, and walking through the brambles and sloughs for quite some distance until she finally accidentally dies really close to the main road ... about 100 feet away, the same distance as other similar cases. Wasn't she found near a hotel that is associated with another of the murdered women? Cracking her case may be the key to all the others - because he didn't have as much time as he did with the others.

 

[Justiceforever]

Very convincing peter! I definately agree with your assessment of " the crazy john being a permenant threat." I am certain She knew the dangers of her profession also. I also think that drugs influenced her behavior which resulted in her death. Now that Im looking at it from a different pov I don't think that I am not convinced that the client...driver...neighbor did it! However...there must've been a trigger...some act of aggression towards her that would set her off...dont you think? Maybe that's irrelivant but probably not to her family..I guess its one of those questions that will foever go unanswered. I continue to read these threads and and am frustrated because I only have internet access oon my phone at the moment which severly limits the speed in which I can read and type my thoughts. I look forward to being on my laptop again soon and I can fully participate in these discussions...until then my thoughts may appear to be somewhat simple!

 

[Justiceforever]

How could you possibly know who was in Brewer's house when Shannan dialed 911 unless you were there? How is it obvious the LISK knew nothing about Shannan? How is it you know the drifter was sitting on the couch? The account I read by Coletti was of Shannan running down Anchor Way, not into the marsh. Your account sounds more like fiction than reality to me. I am allowed to have an opinion about this case just as you are. I don't really need a reply. Just want to point out to a new poster that your comments are only your opinion and not facts in the case.

I appreciate that redbird! what is your opinion...why was Shannon so terrified that night?f you dont mind sharing. I understand everyone has their own pov and I am interested in hearing all of them.

 

[Justiceforever]

I'm not convinced that this was accidental. After watching the recent program, I understood that police theory includes her stripping down, including shoes, and walking through the brambles and sloughs for quite some distance until she finally accidentally dies really close to the main road ... about 100 feet away, the same distance as other similar cases. Wasn't she found near a hotel that is associated with another of the murdered women? Cracking her case may be the key to all the others - because he didn't have as much time as he did with the others.

Did she strip down because as was suggested she was hot from drugs and excertion or did her clothes come off in the muck while she was trying to get out? Did the police ever say if her clothes were just lying there as if she had taken them off or were they in the muck as if theygot stuck and she had to wriggle out of them? I read somewhere in these threads about her having to "slither" out of them. What did the cops say about that if anything?

 

[Redbird]

To Justiceforever: The ME only tested her for cocaine and that was negative so we don't know if she had any drugs in her system or not. Although she was bipolar I think it has been greatly exaggerated by those who want to discredit her 911 call and her panic that night. I believe her fear was real and not paranoia. I think she found, saw or heard something while at Brewer's that terrified her or someone called her with information that made her think she was in grave danger. When the evening started out she trusted her driver but by the time she made the 911 call she wouldn't get back in a car with him. She was very close to the secret graveyard of the SK where 4 prostitutes were discarded. She told the 911 operator "they" were trying to kill her. Then she turned up dead. I don't believe there are several SK's running around leaving bodies in the same spot unbeknownst to each other. We have covered about any question anyone could possibly ask in previous threads. By the remarks of people still commenting on this case it would appear many people believe her case is a complete coincidence and an accident. The trend now of all this is to point this case away from Oak Beach residents and away from CPH, MP, and JB. I also believe the Manorville cases and the GB4 were the work of one person or one group of people. This person or these people have money and influence. Politicians and members of LE may also be involved and for that reason this case will grow cold and never be solved.

 

[Redbird]

Did she strip down because as was suggested she was hot from drugs and excertion or did her clothes come off in the muck while she was trying to get out? Did the police ever say if her clothes were just lying there as if she had taken them off or were they in the muck as if theygot stuck and she had to wriggle out of them? I read somewhere in these threads about her having to "slither" out of them. What did the cops say about that if anything?

To me, it is laughable to think she wriggled out of tight fitting jeans so she could run naked and barefoot through stickery brambles and mud like quicksand, away from the houses and the lights, discarding her cell phone (her lifeline) along the way.

I think Dormer was the only one able to present this tale with a straight face.

 

[Emre E]

Would anybody give credit to the two.

Shannan was shown snuff. That can be real terrorizing without getting physical.

Shannan was holding a gun she somehow captured. Shannan in a way does not fit the pattern of other girls. She had her share of violence with her bf. Maybe she fought back fiercely and got a gun (which was present there). That is why two guys are calmly listening when she's on the phone and trying to talk her out of it.

 

[otto]

He killed ALC and placed her body in his trophy garden, not aware, something had happened. Ergo: LISK had no idea about SG and that is prove enough for me, he didn't kill her.

<snipped for emphasis>

Are you thinking that she wandered into the area trails on her own, perhaps came across some water, thought it was going to be deep, stripped down to swim, found herself lost in brambles and slough, became exhausted and drowned just 100 feet from the road?

 

[PreciousDust]

...there is no way in hell, SG was killed by anybody.

There's plenty of ways, especially in hell, that SG could have been killed by somebody.

There is just not a scenario for it that makes sense to us, with what we know - and we don't know very much at all. Several of the "facts" of the case could be inaccuracies, distortions or outright fabrications promulgated by the various parties involved (those present at the house, the neighbors, the police).

It could very well be that a young woman ran off into a marsh and succumbed to the elements. However, that she was apparently screaming "they're trying to kill me", combined with the known fact that she ended up so close to an active SKs dump site, is exceedingly odd - it's therefore completely natural that people would, and will, speculate about the circumstances.

 

[hawkshaw]

I'm still not savvoy with this site so bear with me if I'm doing this wrong...I WILL eventually figure out how to reply the proper way to specific people...In the meantime this is in response to hawkshaws reply to my first comment...Wow! What a great example of the state of mind of someone who is terrified! So do you believe as was the case with the woman you spoke of, that Shannon had a legit reason to be afraid for her life? Or do you think she was just crazy or high as some have suggested and freaked out for no reason ?

She was in fear of her life. No doubt of that at all. A retired SCPD homicide detective wrote a letter to Newsday stating he heard the tape and there was no indication that she was hysterical. So I guess when she called 911 she just wanted to have an early morning chit-chat with the 911 operator.

Why does the ex-detective write the letter? Maybe he wanted to get the 'record' straight - maybe not. BTW, on another thread in another category I write of the murder of a Peter Ghattas. That same detective was the assigned detective in that case and it remains unsolved for almost 9 years now. No clues? Give me a break. There are clues all over the place.

IMHO, the public is being fed BS by the police. They get an ex-detective of years of service to get a message across.

Does anyone on this Board believe SG wasn't hysterical?

And where do my fellow readers believe the rumor spread about the nursery owner came from?

 

[Emre E]

Does anyone on this Board believe SG wasn't hysterical?

Never to the extent Dormer suggests.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Clearly, SG was hysterical. The question is WHY?

 

[BKS]

I think it is a travesty to justice for LE not to release the police reports and 911 transcript.

What are they hiding?Also, I think it is absolutely ridiculous to think that someone running in fear would take the time to undress! She was running for her life, that was the last thing on her mind.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Would anybody give credit to the two.

Shannan was shown snuff. That can be real terrorizing without getting physical.

Shannan was holding a gun she somehow captured. Shannan in a way does not fit the pattern of other girls. She had her share of violence with her bf. Maybe she fought back fiercely and got a gun (which was present there). That is why two guys are calmly listening when she's on the phone and trying to talk her out of it.

So aside of a big fat conspiracy theory, now also a gun has to be summoned to make this theory possible?

 

[Peter Brendt]

I think it is a travesty to justice for LE not to release the police reports and 911 transcript.

What are they hiding?Also, I think it is absolutely ridiculous to think that someone running in fear would take the time to undress! She was running for her life, that was the last thing on her mind.

I agree with the point about releasing the tape, but that's how they work. And SCPD isn't the only one. I know cases 50 and 60 years old and PDs have big problems to release evidence. That doesn't mean, the police is "hiding" something. It's just the way they are trained to think. It's no conspiracy, just a mistake in thinking.
The problem is the undressing. Sober and under normal mental conditions, you would be right, she would run without undressing. But under drug infused delusions and paranoia? Not so far away anymore.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Oookay, since so many "believe" she was killed, please answer me some questions:

• Do you have any conclusive forensic evidence for your theory or is it just "belief"?
• How do you explain, SG had at least 18 minutes, some now say up to half an hour, to talk to the police on her phone without intervention by the killer?
• according to all testimonies in the articles, I found, in the house were JB, the drifter and SG. Outside was MP. Who else do you think was there (because Redbird says, I can't know, I am especially interested, who was there in Redbird's opinion?)
• How did SG escape from the house? She had already screamed "they want to kill me" and for the last 18 to 20 minutes, nobody tried. After the call, she bolted out. How is that possible if one or two killers were already waiting for her to kill the line to kill her?
• Why wasn't JB seen searching for SG after she went out of the house?
• Why didn't SG wait with Coletti for the police instead of first hiding behind a boat, then bolting off into the marsh?
• Why would, if as you say, one Oak Beach resident is the LISK, this SK go suddenly from medium to high organized to absolute moron niveau?
• Why would LISK let her lie around there instead of going back, wrapping the body and add her to his trophy collection?
• Why would LISK, because if he would be the killer of SG, kill ALC and place her body in the same dump site as the three before SG if he would know, his dump site is compromised?
• Why would at least three people (JB, the drifter and MP) conspire to kill SG? Why would others you need to include in such a conspiracy theory to keep it alive, like Gus Coletti, the SCPD, the bigger part of the East Coast media community, conspire to kill SG?

I am looking forward to the answers. Let's hear answers, not just the beliefs. Do you have anything? I would expect, on a sleuthing board, opinions and beliefs should be at least based on reasonable explanations how things are possible. I still don't buy into conspiracy theories involving a number of killers who suddenly have magic abilities to find a girl hiding in that marsh in the first place (MP lost track when he met Coletti). So, answer, answers, answers people!

 

[PreciousDust]

I think it is absolutely ridiculous to think that someone running in fear would take the time to undress!

Well, it could happen, she might take them off if they were coated with mud or just too heavy from having gotten wet, or if she was undergoing some panic associated with drug use (and, there, it might mean that she took drugs with her john that caused the reaction, or that she took drugs with her john which in combination with prescribed meds she was taking caused the reaction, or that she was supposed to be taking prescribed meds but hadn't - and therefore had that reaction).

Still, imagine a fictional conversation between two people about SG, one of whom is telling the other about the events for the first time - I'll call them Tom and Dick.

Tom: So, now I've told you about these four bodies that were found on Gilgo Beach, these four poor prostitutes who were killed by some lunatic....
Dick: Yeah.
Tom: Interesting thing, the reason the bodies were discovered in the first place was due to a search for another girl who'd disappeared a year before that, from a tiny town right on the same little strip of beach. Eventually they found her body...
Dick: Where did they find her body?
Tom: Oh, about a mile away from the others, still right on that beach.
Dick: So the same killer was involved!
Tom: No, the authorities seem to think she wasn't killed at all, but maybe drowned...
Dick: So, she wasn't also a prostitute?
Tom: Oh, no, she was a prostitute. She'd been at a client's house in that town the night she disappeared.
Dick: What did she do, go for a swim after meeting her client?
Tom: No, they found her in some deep brush, and think she maybe drowned in less than a foot of water.
Dick: What??
Tom: Yeah, in fact, she had ran from the client's house screaming "they're trying to killl me".
Dick: You're kidding.
Tom: I'm not, really.
Dick: So you're saying that there were four dead hookers on this beach, and now there's five, and four are murders and the other isn't.
Tom: I guess...the circumstances were different, the others were found wrapped in burlap.
Dick: How was this one found?
Tom: With no pants on.
Dick: Now I know you're kidding!!

 

[Justiceforever]

Would anybody give credit to the two.

Shannan was shown snuff. That can be real terrorizing without getting physical.

Shannan was holding a gun she somehow captured. Shannan in a way does not fit the pattern of other girls. She had her share of violence with her bf. Maybe she fought back fiercely and got a gun (which was present there). That is why two guys are calmly listening when she's on the phone and trying to talk her out of it.

Whats this about a gun? I hadnt heard about that! Tell me more. Where did you learn about that? Bear with me Im new and havent read all the threads yet.