Shannan Gilbert Found, death declared an accident. #2

[truthspider]

Something else to think about when deciding whether SG took her jeans off herself and either drowned or overdosed without any intervention from a criminal element is this crane.

If there was no criminal involvement in SG's demise why did the SCPD need a crane? If someone's remains or someone's possessions were not intentionally buried by a person, then why on earth would they employ a crane? The police can tell people at a presser that they think she drowned, etc. The SCPD can't deny the fact that they brought in a crane to dig and ordered News12 to cut the video stream once they realized the helicopter was taping the crane's activities. I'll wait for responses from members of the 'SG is not a victim' camp....

I am open to ideas but will be surprised if anyone can come up with a reasonable explanation for the use of a crane in locating someone who died of any cause other than criminal. Before you start, here on long island and the barrier beach for that matter, we don't have landslides, quicksand, or caves.

Good Luck.

 

[truthspider]

The closest CVS is in West Islip not West Babylon. And it's open 24 hours since it's right near Good Samaritan Hospital.

Did you say Good Samaritan Hospital? I know a guy who worked at that hospital fora time.
:what:

It's so close it makes you wonder why a doctor from Oak Beach wouldn't stick with that Hospital instead of commuting to Hospitals in Riverhead and Greenport. What a hike those places are.

 

[Adler]

interesting...I don't believe that she had a jacket and was fully dressed and then got hypothermia and had to strip down, in such a borderline temperature...I just don't buy it...

I played and ran around in 40-50 degree temps as a child for hours on end and never got hypothermia...

I call BS!

Um, she did not have the jacket by the time she got to the marsh. The jacket was found either in front of Brewer's place or on Anchor Way--conflicting reports about the jacket and only LE knows where they found the jacket. (Coletti recalls seeing the jacket slung over SG's shoulders, but if the jacket was found in front of Brewer's driveway, this does not make sense.) In my lowly opinion, LE now has the jacket. Processed it. And they know where it was indeed found.

Read up on paradoxical undressing, hypothermia, preterminal burrowing, and terminal burrowing. A lot of PB's theory fits, a lot doesn't. Did SG drown in six-inch puddles as Dormer suggested? Probably not. Did her skinny jeans fly off of her as she raced through the marsh? Unlikely. In the interim, all we can do is entertain all theories and hope LE provides us with some of the evidence they are (probably) sitting on, such as the 911 call, etc.

 

[Adler]

Something else to think about when deciding whether SG took her jeans off herself and either drowned or overdosed without any intervention from a criminal element is this crane.

If there was no criminal involvement in SG's demise why did the SCPD need a crane? If someone's remains or someone's possessions were not intentionally buried by a person, then why on earth would they employ a crane? The police can tell people at a presser that they think she drowned, etc. The SCPD can't deny the fact that they brought in a crane to dig and ordered News12 to cut the video stream once they realized the helicopter was taping the crane's activities. I'll wait for responses from members of the 'SG is not a victim' camp....

I am open to ideas but will be surprised if anyone can come up with a reasonable explanation for the use of a crane in locating someone who died of any cause other than criminal. Before you start, here on long island and the barrier beach for that matter, we don't have landslides, quicksand, or caves.

Good Luck.

I know it is grasping at straws, but I am wondering if anybody has the longitudinal/latitudinal coordinates for where the belongings were found. A month or so ago somebody posted on the earlier pages of this thread quite a few tools for arial photography via multiple online sources whereby pre-may-2010 photos are obtainable. Anybody?

 

[mcme]

9 out of 10 high water events in that marsh area involve winds/weather out of the ENE, the pants and purse could have been floated to where they were found long after SG passed away.
It would make sense to me that LE looked through the mud in the ditches near where the pants/purse were found first.

 

[Adler]

Something else to think about when deciding whether SG took her jeans off herself and either drowned or overdosed without any intervention from a criminal element is this crane.

If there was no criminal involvement in SG's demise why did the SCPD need a crane? If someone's remains or someone's possessions were not intentionally buried by a person, then why on earth would they employ a crane? The police can tell people at a presser that they think she drowned, etc. The SCPD can't deny the fact that they brought in a crane to dig and ordered News12 to cut the video stream once they realized the helicopter was taping the crane's activities. I'll wait for responses from members of the 'SG is not a victim' camp....

I am open to ideas but will be surprised if anyone can come up with a reasonable explanation for the use of a crane in locating someone who died of any cause other than criminal. Before you start, here on long island and the barrier beach for that matter, we don't have landslides, quicksand, or caves.

Good Luck.

Doh! I just got the implications of what you saying. Cranes dig. LE thought somebody was buried. Excellent point.

 

[Adler]

9 out of 10 high water events in that marsh area involve winds/weather out of the ENE, the pants and purse could have been floated to where they were found long after SG passed away.
It would make sense to me that LE looked through the mud in the ditches near where the pants/purse were found first.

Yeah, but why did they need a crane to do it? lol

 

[truthspider]

Doh! I just got the implications of what you saying. Cranes dig. LE thought somebody was buried. Excellent point.

Thanks, I do try to think (and research) long and hard before I post something, and I can honestly tell you I can't think of any reason you would need a crane to investigate a death unless it was criminal. I await more ideas and responses.

 

[mcme]

Yeah, but why did they need a crane to do it? lol

I don't know, but maybe they thought that after a year and a half, the remains may have sunk out of view, or been covered as silt and mud flowed through the ditch?

 

[truthspider]

I don't know, but maybe they thought that after a year and a half, the remains may have sunk out of view, or been covered as silt and mud flowed through the ditch?

If they were looking for evidence covered by silt, mud, or water, wouldn't they have searched carefully like they did in the other watery locations? A Crane is for digging deep holes in solid ground.

(pics attached)

 

[truthspider]

I know it is grasping at straws, but I am wondering if anybody has the longitudinal/latitudinal coordinates for where the belongings were found. A month or so ago somebody posted on the earlier pages of this thread quite a few tools for arial photography via multiple online sources whereby pre-may-2010 photos are obtainable. Anybody?

This spot that I pointed out is in the area where they were digging with the crane. This aerial image was taken prior to any searches of the marsh. It's a splotch of white sand, which tells me someone dug a pretty deep hole, the first 12 - 15 inches is going to be top soil, brown, black and nutritious. 2 - 5 feet down you hit white sand like this.

 

[Adler]

9 out of 10 high water events in that marsh area involve winds/weather out of the ENE, the pants and purse could have been floated to where they were found long after SG passed away.
It would make sense to me that LE looked through the mud in the ditches near where the pants/purse were found first.

Yeah, but looking with a huge crane? Come on! Why wouldn't they just use a handheld metal detector as they knew SG had a metal jaw implant? Her silver lipstick holder also detectable via handheld device. (Okay, that last sentence is pure fiction on my part, couldn't resist.)

 

[Adler]

This spot that I pointed out is in the area where they were digging with the crane. This aerial image was taken prior to any searches of the marsh. It's a splotch of white sand, which tells me someone dug a pretty deep hole, the first 12 - 15 inches is going to be top soil, brown, black and nutritious. 2 - 5 feet down you hit white sand like this.

Wow!

Well, maybe somebody buried their dead dog. I dunno. Still: WOW!

Truth, do you have the long/lat coordinates for belongings site? NASA and National Geographic excellent source for photos such as these. My guess is that satellite photos can zoom into any spot within an inch of an object. Again, though, do we lowly sleuths have access? Not yet. I bet LE does. One day . . .

 

[BKS]

Wow!

Well, maybe somebody buried their dead dog. I dunno. Still: WOW!

Truth, do you have the long/lat coordinates for belongings site? NASA and National Geographic excellent source for photos such as these. My guess is that satellite photos can zoom into any spot within an inch of an object. Again, though, do we lowly sleuths have access? Not yet. I bet LE does. One day . . .

Google Earth is free and has aerial photos of all the sites in question, going back to 1994. I don't have the lat/long of the sites but if you put in this address: #8 Fairway, Oak Beach, New York you can then move your cursor to the site you want to look at. In the left hand bottom corner click the 1994 date and then a slide rule will pop up so you can scroll through dates.

 

[minazoe]

It still makes no sense to me that a cadaver dog wouldn't have found her dead body so close to the house immediately.

decomposing for the all of the neighborhood to smell.

don't tell me a dog wouldn't make it in the brambles either..

unknown cod.

disgraceful on the part of LE.

 

[PreciousDust]

To dice it up a bit more the CVS in question is in West Islip and its open 24 hours. =)

The closest CVS is in West Islip not West Babylon. And it's open 24 hours since it's right near Good Samaritan Hospital.

UGH! I searched "Babylon area" CVS's, and presumed they were giving me nearby locations. I'm utterly embarrassed here, I'm clearly not a sleuth-worthy participant, so I'm outta here; imma post a poll, then you won't have Nixon...um, I mean PreciousDust, to kick around anymore.

If my POI (who is, curiously, still dead) turns out to be the guy, I'll come back and brag. Ciao!

 

[mcme]

Yeah, but looking with a huge crane? Come on! Why wouldn't they just use a handheld metal detector as they knew SG had a metal jaw implant? Her silver lipstick holder also detectable via handheld device. (Okay, that last sentence is pure fiction on my part, couldn't resist.)

I don't know what they were thinking or why they used that piece of machinery, I'm just tossing out any reasonable explanation I can think of.
Maybe they used it to create a hole to hold standing water from the ditch?

 

[truthspider]

I don't know what they were thinking or why they used that piece of machinery, I'm just tossing out any reasonable explanation I can think of.
Maybe they used it to create a hole to hold standing water from the ditch?

I like your thought process, if I am interpreting you correctly you are thinking that they dug deep or big hole to let the water flow out of the vector control ditch into, in effect emptying the vector ditch to search it?

I don't think that would work, I am sure the water table is about 3' below the surface back there, you couldn't dig a deep hole as there is no place to go. Maybe instead of searching through the muck at the bottom of the ditch they scooped a bunch of the mud up and made a pile, then sifted through the pile?

 

[Peter Brendt]

Welcome back, PB.

What I listed was what I think is the evidence that LE probably has, not what we mere sleuthers have. We don't have enough. They do (probably).

The claim, LE has enough evidence is exactly, what I don't buy. But then, since I believe, SG died as a consequence of a bad trip and hypothermia, there will no evidence for murder.

Meanwhile, I am reading up on paradoxical undressing and terminal burrowing. I am with FredandEdna, still not buying it, but so much of your theory is compelling. For example, there are cases where victims trudged through snow for more than 1/4 mile after removing socks and shoes. That's good for your theory. I am looking for a case where somebody disrobes and then trudges through seemingly impassable brambles for 1/4 mile. Do you know of a case study such as this? Please post, if so.

Most studies concentrate on weather conditions, temperatures and general areas, but not local plant growth. So, sorry, no explicit bramble study. I can offer seemingly impassable rocks, seemingly impassable pebble fields, seemingly impassable snow fields, but as far as I know, no case study about seemingly impassable brambles. Which makes sense, since those brambles were obviously passable, regardless whether you think, she ran there or whether you think, she was carried there, someone passed them.

The other pattern I am finding regarding terminal burrowing and pre-terminal burrowing is that the ability to walk is severely impaired by the time the paradoxical dressing occurs, often. That is why the discarded clothes are often found so close to the body, not 1/4 mile away.

Obviously, conflicting research findings and reports here. Peter, can you post something that might shed light on this?

The ability to walk is impaired because paradoxical undressing typically starts at the lower half of the body, aka legs. And if you run around without shoes, socks and pants in 60F and most of your loss of body heat is from being wet, it's a little different than running around at 0F in a snow storm. The cases, you refer here too are cases with a big difference between environment temperature and body temperature. In cases with a not so big difference, as we talk here, the impact on the ability to walk and run is slower. Additionally, the time line would be anyway distorted if drugs are playing a role, since they diminish the ability of a person to process sensoric input, like pain or cold feet. But then, there is no conclusive study exclusively focusing on seemingly impassable brambles at 60F in a wet environment.

 

[Peter Brendt]

I don't know what they were thinking or why they used that piece of machinery, I'm just tossing out any reasonable explanation I can think of.
Maybe they used it to create a hole to hold standing water from the ditch?

Who said, the crane dug at all? They could have used it as they did use the smaller one at Gilgo Beach: As a higher point of view above the brushes which, opposite to planes and helicopters doesn't move.