Shannan Gilbert's 23 Minute 911 Call #2

[White_Rabbit]

I never thought of this before until i read this post...
i always thought its possible that they caught up with her, brought her back to brewers and had their way with her and did not instantly kill her. it is possible that she was kept there for a very long time. i always thought she might have seen another girl already being held there. or photos of other victims. what if that was why pak went back there to dispose of her after the fact? i mean did he and ruiz actually walk around and search for her, or just showed up to get their story straight with brewer? ugh. i wish we knew and that the families could get some closure.

Unless Peter Hackett, Michael Pak or Joseph Brewer decide to tell the truth about everything that happened that night I don’t feel this case will be resolved.

I believe Shannan died as a result of sedative that Peter Hackett administered to her in his home, in an attempt to calm her down. I feel that Shannan had run into Peter Hackett that morning shortly after she ran from Barbara Brennan’s house, and that Michael Pak had caught up to Shannan at Peter Hackett’s house.

Presumably, after Shannon had calmed down she left with Michael Pak, become unresponsive in his car from the sedative interacting with the other drugs in her system, and was dumped by Michael Pak in the marsh, and her belongings placed behind Peter Hackett’s house by Michael Pak as to have the finger of suspicion pointed at Peter Hackett once she was discovered.

 

[Betty P]

Unless Peter Hackett, Michael Pak or Joseph Brewer decide to tell the truth about everything that happened that night I don’t feel this case will be resolved.

I believe Shannan died as a result of sedative that Peter Hackett administered to her in his home, in an attempt to calm her down. I feel that Shannan had run into Peter Hackett that morning shortly after she ran from Barbara Brennan’s house, and that Michael Pak had caught up to Shannan at Peter Hackett’s house.

Presumably, after Shannon had calmed down she left with Michael Pak, become unresponsive in his car from the sedative interacting with the other drugs in her system, and was dumped by Michael Pak in the marsh, and her belongings placed behind Peter Hackett’s house by Michael Pak as to have the finger of suspicion pointed at Peter Hackett once she was discovered.

In your theory, which is interesting, where is Pak when he decides to dump her body in the marsh? How does he approach the spot where her body was found? Did he approach from the road? Did he carry her back there from Hackett's back yard? The spot where she was found wasn't easily accessible. Just curious. TIA

 

[PillowofWinds]

Unless Peter Hackett, Michael Pak or Joseph Brewer decide to tell the truth about everything that happened that night I don’t feel this case will be resolved.

I believe Shannan died as a result of sedative that Peter Hackett administered to her in his home, in an attempt to calm her down. I feel that Shannan had run into Peter Hackett that morning shortly after she ran from Barbara Brennan’s house, and that Michael Pak had caught up to Shannan at Peter Hackett’s house.

Presumably, after Shannon had calmed down she left with Michael Pak, become unresponsive in his car from the sedative interacting with the other drugs in her system, and was dumped by Michael Pak in the marsh, and her belongings placed behind Peter Hackett’s house by Michael Pak as to have the finger of suspicion pointed at Peter Hackett once she was discovered.

Definitely a plausible theory. the only thing i dont think adds up with that though is that i thought it was established that she had her hyoid bone missing and/or was injured consistent with strangling. (I do not know if that is fact or assumption by the public.) and why would they take her pants off? that is not consistent with BB and GC statements. wouldnt it be easier and make more sense to just leave her there, as is?
i wish we had more facts.
what i dont get is why wasn't Pak charged with the Mann Act? And why is only CPH being sued? Wouldn't you also sue Brewer AND Pak as well? If SG did, in fact, say "they are trying to kill me" and you have Coletti stating that Pak was following her, why not say he played a part in causing her death? Pak and Brewer were let off way too easily on this. They directly brought her to be there. I still think they are setting CPH up to take the fall for everything. Which I do not find possible for him to be LISK acting alone. Just my opinion.
Im looking forward to hearing the rest of what Joe Scalise Sr has to say on Mackays show. His deposition/statement is the most direct and damning if you ask me.

 

[White_Rabbit]

In your theory, which is interesting, where is Pak when he decides to dump her body in the marsh? How does he approach the spot where her body was found? Did he approach from the road? Did he carry her back there from Hackett's back yard? The spot where she was found wasn't easily accessible. Just curious. TIA

When you are leaving Oak Beach you must go east and pass the location where Shannan’s body was found before you can turn around to go west. My theory is that she became unresponsive in the passenger seat of Michael Pak’s car as they were leaving Oak Beach. He pulled over on the shoulder of the east bound Ocean Parkway and carried her into the marsh. At some point he went back to dump her belongings near Peter Hackett’s house.

 

[White_Rabbit]

Definitely a plausible theory. the only thing i dont think adds up with that though is that i thought it was established that she had her hyoid bone missing and/or was injured consistent with strangling. (I do not know if that is fact or assumption by the public.) and why would they take her pants off? that is not consistent with BB and GC statements. wouldnt it be easier and make more sense to just leave her there, as is?
i wish we had more facts.
what i dont get is why wasn't Pak charged with the Mann Act? And why is only CPH being sued? Wouldn't you also sue Brewer AND Pak as well? If SG did, in fact, say "they are trying to kill me" and you have Coletti stating that Pak was following her, why not say he played a part in causing her death? Pak and Brewer were let off way too easily on this. They directly brought her to be there. I still think they are setting CPH up to take the fall for everything. Which I do not find possible for him to be LISK acting alone. Just my opinion.
Im looking forward to hearing the rest of what Joe Scalise Sr has to say on Mackays show. His deposition/statement is the most direct and damning if you ask me.

In my theory Shannan’s hyoid bone is broken by Joseph Brewer when he loses his temper and chokes Shannan when she will not leave his house, which is what prompted her to call 911.

I’ve never thought about why he may have taken her pants off until now, but I would have to surmise that it would be to make her death look like a sexual assault and murder?

Peter Hackett is being sued because he was caught lying about contacting Mari Gilbert.

Michael Pak and Joseph Brewer simply may be better liars.

 

[PillowofWinds]

In my theory Shannan’s hyoid bone is broken by Joseph Brewer when he loses his temper and chokes Shannan when she will not leave his house, which is what prompted her to call 911.

I’ve never thought about why he may have taken her pants off until now, but I would have to surmise that it would be to make her death look like a sexual assault and murder?

Peter Hackett is being sued because he was caught lying about contacting Mari Gilbert.

Michael Pak and Joseph Brewer simply may be better liars.

Hmmmm...i would have never thought she was strangled before she left the house...interesting. but if witnesses would say pak was last to see her, i would think he would not want it to look like an assault...i would think they would want it to look like she just ran away and drowned. thanks for sharing your ideas. i think we all give each other food for thought.

 

[Bose]

IMO, I am still on the fence as to what ultimately caused Shannan's death. I think it's clear she went through psychological trauma that night. As to the amount of physical trauma, it may be difficult to know, definitively. If she was found in a better state of preservation, or closer to time of death, there probably would have been a lot more information to be gleaned. If there were marks on her body or defensive wounds, ligature marks or bruising in the neck area, petechiae from strangulation. A lot of that goes, once decomp advances. So, we were left with hyoid bone, since larynx was missing. I think it goes without saying, exposure in a damp area, and critters, could affect what is left/move things around.

Bear with me as I go a little wordy in the medical terminology, here.

John Ray summarized Baden's findings: "Shannan's bone in her neck, which is known as the hyoid bone, was in some way disfigured -- in two ways actually. One end of the broken hyoid bone was rough-edged and the middle of the hyoid bone had a hole right through the center of the bone as if it were drilled or hole-punched into the throat," Family Attorney: New Autopsy Finds Shannan Gilbert's Death 'Consistent With Homicidal Strangulation' - CBS New York (cbsnews.com)

No idea of what could have caused the hole in the hyoid (perhaps critters, unsure), but here is a bit about the structure of the hyoid, itself: Anatomy, Head and Neck, Hyoid Bone - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf (nih.gov)

And a word about age-related changes to the hyoid bone: "Recently, hyoid bone density and ankyloses of the joints between hyoid body and greater and/or lesser horns are getting more attention as possible predictor for age and sex in victim identification3,30. Age-related ankylosis (Fig. 2a2–6) is a physiological process that increases with age5,13,14,18,20,21,22,23,24. D’Souza reported a mean age of unilateral (Fig. 2a4–5) and bilateral (Fig. 2a2–3) fusion in males of 39.9 and 41.77 years respectively and in females of 37.5 and 45 years20. Body and greater horns usually do not fuse until the 35th to 45th year23,31 and they might even never fuse22,23. Fusion was not reported before the age of 1832 or 2020,30." Variants of the hyoid-larynx complex, with implications for forensic science and consequence for the diagnosis of Eagle’s syndrome | Scientific Reports (nature.com)

Basically, the greater horns of the hyoid when we are young usually are attached to the body of the hyoid with fibrous tissue. The hyoid is not solid bone. As we age, that fibrous joint goes through ankylosis (become a stiff, immovable joint) later on in life. Due to Shannan's age, the hyoid may not have been fully fused to begin with. Add to that, animal activity--larynx was missing, and the larynx is largely cartilage, with ligaments attaching to the hyoid bone.

In other words, IMO, I am in no way a pathologist or forensic expert, but to me it's unfortunately very possible that if there was animal activity involving removal of the larynx, the hyoid was gnawed on, too, which could explain holes, or rough parts on the greater horn--because that is where a ligament is present, which would go to the missing (eaten?) larynx. Sorry to be so blunt, I know none of this is something many of us want to think of. If it's critter damage, if this is the case, it's possible she was not strangulated at all. It does not mean she wasn't murdered, or that she didn't die as the result of someone else's actions, but I am not entirely sure about the strangulation. I think the strangulation has been pushed as a possible reason, for legal reasons, because it's a stronger indication of foul play. Just my thoughts.

 

[Bose]

I'm just going to add, while I think of it, having played the scenario over in my mind (as all of us have, I'm sure), putting myself in Shannan's place...

If I'm hiding from more or less everyone I've come into contact with, not trusting, trying to get help from a woman (BB), if I wanted to get out of the area, why go deeper into an unknown/swampy/potentially dangerous area? It would be the last place I would choose unless I felt I was in immediate danger of being cornered. I also would not bother to take off my jeans, because they would provide some protection to the elements, and I would not want to waste time. Would not take off shoes, though hers would probably be lost quickly if ballet flats. Under no circumstances would I get rid of my phone, because that would be my lifeline to the outside world.

But, what if I knew a dog was out? Someone was looking for me using a dog, with them? Would I be scared that the dog was being used to find me, and try to throw off my scent by going into the reeds, and taking off my jeans? Would I be so afraid that a dog was hunting me down, used by one of my pursuers, that I dump everything I could think of that might have my scent on it? Maybe.

Cardiac arrest? Maybe. This does not mean that others are innocent, or did not contribute to her death. Obviously, there are still parts we don't know.

 

[White_Rabbit]

Hmmmm...i would have never thought she was strangled before she left the house...interesting. but if witnesses would say pak was last to see her, i would think he would not want it to look like an assault...i would think they would want it to look like she just ran away and drowned. thanks for sharing your ideas. i think we all give each other food for thought.

It seems that many believe the scenario that Peter Hackett was the last person to see her before she ran into the marsh on her own accord, removing her jeans herself, before succumbing to the elements.

 

[Betty P]

In my theory Shannan’s hyoid bone is broken by Joseph Brewer when he loses his temper and chokes Shannan when she will not leave his house, which is what prompted her to call 911.

I’ve never thought about why he may have taken her pants off until now, but I would have to surmise that it would be to make her death look like a sexual assault and murder?

Peter Hackett is being sued because he was caught lying about contacting Mari Gilbert.

Michael Pak and Joseph Brewer simply may be better liars.

I always assumed her pants were removed because she was sexually assaulted before being killed and dumped in the marsh. It's the most logical explanation. It's what usually happens when female sex workers (and those who aren't sex workers) are kidnapped and murdered.

Wouldn't it also be against the odds for a sex worker who has been kidnapped and physically attacked to also have a hyoid bone fracture, but not die from strangulation?

Also, if Pak were theoretically driving east out of Oak Beach to a spot near the crossover to the westbound lane and decided to pull over and dispose of Shannan's body, why would he have passed the first crossover lane to go farther east to dispose of the body before going even farther east to a 2nd cross over to the westbound lane? Why not just make a left at the first crossover, turn west and dispose of her body along the westbound lane, where all the other Gilgo Beach victims were found? Could someone have given him directions to the secret Gilgo Beach dumping area, but he was confused and disposed of her in the wrong spot?

IIRC, Shannan's body was over 100 yds from the road into the marsh.

 

[White_Rabbit]

I always assumed her pants were removed because she was sexually assaulted before being killed and dumped in the marsh. It's the most logical explanation. It's what usually happens when female sex workers (and those who aren't sex workers) are kidnapped and murdered.

Wouldn't it also be against the odds for a sex worker who has been kidnapped and physically attacked to also have a hyoid bone fracture, but not die from strangulation?

Also, if Pak were theoretically driving east out of Oak Beach to a spot near the crossover to the westbound lane and decided to pull over and dispose of Shannan's body, why would he have passed the first crossover lane to go farther east to dispose of the body before going even farther east to a 2nd cross over to the westbound lane? Why not just make a left at the first crossover, turn west and dispose of her body along the westbound lane, where all the other Gilgo Beach victims were found? Could someone have given him directions to the secret Gilgo Beach dumping area, but he was confused and disposed of her in the wrong spot?

IIRC, Shannan's body was over 100 yds from the road into the marsh.

Based on your assumption I have to presume you believe that Shannan Gilbert and all of the other victims along Ocean Parkway were killed by the same person. Based on the circumstances I do not believe that to be true. I believe there to be 3 separate cases:

1) Manslaughter of Shannan Gilbert by Peter Hackett and Michael Pak.
2) Murder of the Gilgo Beach 4 and Unidentified Asian Male by Unsub.
3) Murder of the Jane Does by John Bittrolff.

Based on the circumstances I don't believe Shannan Gilbert was kidnapped, sexually assaulted and murdered. I believe that the physical attack that caused the damage to her hyoid can be attributed to an attempt by an angry Joseph Brewer to remove her from his residence. It's possible that he either grabbed her by the throat to intimidate her, or used a type of rear naked choke to force her out of the house. I don't believe his intent was to kill her but only to remove her from the house.

We know that Shannan ran from Joseph Brewer's house at some point that morning and interacted with both Gus Coletti and Barbara Brennan at their residences, and ended up very close to Peter Hackett's residence, which is only minutes away from Barbara Brennan's.

We know that Peter Hackett contacted Mari Gilbert to inquire about Shannan's whereabouts and wellbeing.

During an interview on 48 Hours Moriarty states to Peter Hackett, “You called Mari on your wife's cell phone on the third on that Monday when Mari said you called."
Peter Hackett is then quoted as saying, “Yeah, I'm sure I did. When you give … look let me not get into it.”

Could he have been about to say, “medical assistance” or “medical treatment”?

We know that there are sworn affidavits by witnesses in the civil case that indicate not only that Peter Hackett had administered some type of sedative to Shannan Gilbert that morning, but also that he told people other than Mari Gilbert that he ran a home for wayward girls.

This leads me to believe that Peter Hackett treated Shannan Gilbert with some type of medication that morning, and did so without understanding her current toxicology or medical history, and the combination of substances in Shannan's system caused her to become unresponsive.

I believe Shannan left Peter Hackett's house with Michael Pak.

I think Shannan became unresponsive in the passenger seat of Michael Pak's car which caused him to panic, and he pulled over to the quickest and most convenient place he could find, which was the shoulder of the road he was traveling on. I don't believe Michael Pak had any idea about any dumping ground for murder victims along Ocean Parkway.

Shannan's body was said to be found 1/4 mile from her belongings which were discovered in the vicinity of Peter Hackett's house. The distance between Peter Hackett's house and Ocean Parkway through the marsh is about 2/10's of a mile. Shannan's body was discovered very close to the shoulder of the eastbound Ocean Parkway.

 

[Betty P]

Based on your assumption I have to presume you believe that Shannan Gilbert and all of the other victims along Ocean Parkway were killed by the same person. Based on the circumstances I do not believe that to be true. I believe there to be 3 separate cases:

1) Manslaughter of Shannan Gilbert by Peter Hackett and Michael Pak.
2) Murder of the Gilgo Beach 4 and Unidentified Asian Male by Unsub.
3) Murder of the Jane Does by John Bittrolff.

Based on the circumstances I don't believe Shannan Gilbert was kidnapped, sexually assaulted and murdered. I believe that the physical attack that caused the damage to her hyoid can be attributed to an attempt by an angry Joseph Brewer to remove her from his residence. It's possible that he either grabbed her by the throat to intimidate her, or used a type of rear naked choke to force her out of the house. I don't believe his intent was to kill her but only to remove her from the house.

We know that Shannan ran from Joseph Brewer's house at some point that morning and interacted with both Gus Coletti and Barbara Brennan at their residences, and ended up very close to Peter Hackett's residence, which is only minutes away from Barbara Brennan's.

We know that Peter Hackett contacted Mari Gilbert to inquire about Shannan's whereabouts and wellbeing.

During an interview on 48 Hours Moriarty states to Peter Hackett, “You called Mari on your wife's cell phone on the third on that Monday when Mari said you called."
Peter Hackett is then quoted as saying, “Yeah, I'm sure I did. When you give … look let me not get into it.”

Could he have been about to say, “medical assistance” or “medical treatment”?

We know that there are sworn affidavits by witnesses in the civil case that indicate not only that Peter Hackett had administered some type of sedative to Shannan Gilbert that morning, but also that he told people other than Mari Gilbert that he ran a home for wayward girls.

This leads me to believe that Peter Hackett treated Shannan Gilbert with some type of medication that morning, and did so without understanding her current toxicology or medical history, and the combination of substances in Shannan's system caused her to become unresponsive.

I believe Shannan left Peter Hackett's house with Michael Pak.

I think Shannan became unresponsive in the passenger seat of Michael Pak's car which caused him to panic, and he pulled over to the quickest and most convenient place he could find, which was the shoulder of the road he was traveling on. I don't believe Michael Pak had any idea about any dumping ground for murder victims along Ocean Parkway.

Shannan's body was said to be found 1/4 mile from her belongings which were discovered in the vicinity of Peter Hackett's house. The distance between Peter Hackett's house and Ocean Parkway through the marsh is about 2/10's of a mile. Shannan's body was discovered very close to the shoulder of the eastbound Ocean Parkway.

That's a very good analysis and it's possible that's what happened.

I'd forgotten that Hackett had admitted in the civil trial to administering a sedative to Shannan. With that possibility, JMO, it circles back around to my original assumptions when Shannan's disappearance first broke in the news:

Shannan was called all the way out to Brewer's house with what must have been a high priced offer for something "special" (ick). What she didn't know, but Pak did, was that this group at Brewer's likes to engage in sex or film the act of killing a woman in the act of sex. Snuff films, etc., right? If not a film, then sex with a woman while she's being killed and the other creeps standing around watching.

Not long after going into Brewer's, Shannan gets the gist of what services are expected and calls 911, telling them someone is trying to kill her. They were. She was no dummy, had enough experience to know what was going on. She also figured out that Pak was part of the set-up.

Shannan runs away for her life. She can't get in the car with Pak because he will just take her back there. There's no turning back, now that Shannan knows what these guys are up to. She tried to hide out at Coletti's, leaves for some reason. She goes to the woman's house, Pak is following her (probably Brewer and guests, too). She ends up at Hackett's where Pak & all the creeps are in attendance. Someone holds her down and chokes her into unconsciousness while the guys finish their little party - Hackett giving her a fatal dose of a sedative while the sex act takes place. Pak or someone takes her body to dispose of it.

I feel dirty just typing that, but it's what happens in the real world. I'm following another case right now where something similar happened, only the creeps took photos and/or video and sold it online, along with other horrible things (see Cassidy Rainwater).

Everything else in this case has just been a cover up, because Shannan made a call to 911, probably named names, etc. That's why LE has made all the claims about her mental illness and drug addiction - so that no one will take the 911 call seriously.

 

[Girlinterrupted]

Shannan Gilbert was in Manhattan on the night of Friday, April 30, 2010.
Joseph Brewer was 2 hours away in Oak Beach.

To drive from midtown manhattan to Oak Beach is 2 hours. To drive back from Oak Beach to Manhattan is 2 hours. 4 hours total travel time.
Plus Pak's cut.
IF they're working independently - which only Pak claims.

Shannan Gilbert got a call at 11pm on a Friday night from a man she'd never met before asking her to invest 4 hours of travel time into an outcall?

Joseph Brewer is lonely on a Friday night and instead of choosing from the 100s of outcall ads listed on multiple online platforms all within a 30 minute radius from him, he decides on Shannan, a girl he'd never met who is 2 hours away from him in Manhattan?

It simply does not make sense.
Shannan and Pak had been to Suffolk County before.
They had been to Oak Beach before.
This was not Brewer's first interaction with Shannan or Pak.

But Shannan was not there just to deliver sex.
Shannan and Pak were still working for Joseph Ruis.

Shannan Gilbert had been arrested in 2007/2008 in NJ while working as an escort for one of Ruis' services.
Michael Pak also worked for this man.
Alex Diaz also worked for this man.

Ruis was not running a simple escort service.
Hudson County PO investigated him for a year, starting in 2008, before obtaining a warrant to raid his multiple businesses and homes.
On June 30, 2009, the HCPO arrested and charged Joseph Ruis with first-degree money laundering,
N.J.S.A. 2C:21-25;
third-degree promoting prostitution, N.J.S.A. 2C:34-1b(2);
third-degree conspiracy to promote prostitution and distribute cocaine, N.J.S.A. 2C:5-2, N.J.S.A. 2C:34-1b(2), N.J.S.A. 2C:35-5a(1), and N.J.S.A. 2C:35-5b(1);
and first-degree leading a narcotics trafficking network, N.J.S.A. 2C:35-3.

Shannan Gilbert was his co-defendent.

2007/2008
Gilbert arrested while working for Ruis.

2008
Hudson County Prosecutors Office begins investigation into Ruis.

2009
Ruis is arrested and makes cash bail.

2010
April: Trial is set for June, Ruis arraigned. Free till trial.

May: Shannan, listed as co-defendant, goes to OB and is never found alive.

June: Ruis pleads down and is out in 2 years.

Go back to 2007/2008 when Shannan was arrested in the prostitution sting working for Joseph Ruis in NJ.

It's at that time that Hudson County PO is beginning a large investigation into Ruis.
Shannan is listed as his codefendent.

Read the charges again.

Ruis was not running a simple escort service.
He was running 3 prostitution rings, limo services and other shell businesses.

Escorts and drivers - these are his employees.
Sex and cocaine - these are his goods and services.

Shannan Gilbert: employed as an escort by Ruis.
Pak and Diaz: employed as drivers by Ruis.
This is literally how the three met.

The third official charge against Ruis as stated by HCPO is conspiracy to promote prostitution and distribute cocaine. This charge is separate from his second charge of promoting prostitution.
The last official charge as stated by HCPO is leading a narcotics trafficking network in the first degree.

Shannan was directly involved in this case. She disappeared one month before it was scheduled.

If Shannan Gilbert was working with NJ in order to get out of the mess she was in on the case against Ruis, NJ would have her working whatever Ruis' business set up.
If that business (which was prostitution and cocaine, package deal) happened to lead to Suffolk County, to people in Suffolk County involved in law and politics, and on that particular night, to Oak Beach, then NJ is in a bad spot. Their intention was not to open a can of worms on Suffolk County. They wanted Ruis.
But Ruis led to Suffolk. And Shannan was HCPO's CI.
I used to think it was Ruis who, out on cash bail at the time, set Shannan up when she went out to OB that night.

But I think she was supplying for multiple places in Suffolk County, and Oak Beach was not a weird job - she was familiar with it.

Shannan wouldnt have had just a target on her back from just Ruis.
She would have had a target on her back from literally anyone who
she'd done business with while working for Ruis.
Anyone who had something to lose when the information came out during the trial.
Like who?
Pick any POI in OB who had any connection to someone in power in SC.
Pick any of the names that have come up in Suffolk County as participating in ethically questionable recreations. Law enforcement, judges, politicians.

If Shannan was scheduled to testify the next month at Ruis' trial and that testimony implicated Ruis OR any of Ruis' clients in Oak Beach or greater Suffolk County, and it was leaked that she was working w the prosecution, she's a walking target.

Idk if Pak or Shannan arranged the trip.
It could've been arranged through Ruis' agency.
But it wasnt the first time Shannan or Pak heard the words Oak Beack and Brewer was not some random john.

She went there like she had many times before for Ruis - to drop off cocaine, possibly provide sex.

This time, a month away from a trial that could implicate ALOT of people, someone was there to keep her from getting to the Ruis trial.

And the next month, there was no trial. Ruis lawyer's made a deal, no details of the investigation came out, and that was that.

Maybe that's why this 911 call is taking so long.
If Shannan was working for New Jersy's case against Ruis and uncovered a big problem in Suffolk County...generally speaking, LE is going to try to avoid involving an entire different county's LE in a case.

Maybe Shannan was trying to explain to a dispatcher that she was working for the NJ Prosecutors Office on a job in Oak Beach in which she was booked to deliver cocaine and sexual services as part of an immunity deal in a case against a guy in NJ for which she is listed as a co-defendant that is scheduled for a month from now and she got made and they're trying to kill me.

Maybe.

 

[Girlinterrupted]

That's a very good analysis and it's possible that's what happened.

I'd forgotten that Hackett had admitted in the civil trial to administering a sedative to Shannan.

Hackett never admitted administering anything to Shannan in the depositions.

I'm not claiming Hackett has no part, I have no idea who or how many people could've had a part either directly or by covering up for eachother.
It was affidavits given by others that claimed they heard Hackett say he saw Shannan or Hackett told them he had.
At no point did Hackett even admit to meeting Shannan let alone administering a sedative to her.

 

[SecretAgentMan]

Shannan Gilbert was in Manhattan on the night of Friday, April 30, 2010.
Joseph Brewer was 2 hours away in Oak Beach.

To drive from midtown manhattan to Oak Beach is 2 hours. To drive back from Oak Beach to Manhattan is 2 hours. 4 hours total travel time.
Plus Pak's cut.
IF they're working independently - which only Pak claims.

Shannan Gilbert got a call at 11pm on a Friday night from a man she'd never met before asking her to invest 4 hours of travel time into an outcall?

Joseph Brewer is lonely on a Friday night and instead of choosing from the 100s of outcall ads listed on multiple online platforms all within a 30 minute radius from him, he decides on Shannan, a girl he'd never met who is 2 hours away from him in Manhattan?

It simply does not make sense.
Shannan and Pak had been to Suffolk County before.
They had been to Oak Beach before.
This was not Brewer's first interaction with Shannan or Pak.

But Shannan was not there just to deliver sex.
Shannan and Pak were still working for Joseph Ruis.

Shannan Gilbert had been arrested in 2007/2008 in NJ while working as an escort for one of Ruis' services.
Michael Pak also worked for this man.
Alex Diaz also worked for this man.

Ruis was not running a simple escort service.
Hudson County PO investigated him for a year, starting in 2008, before obtaining a warrant to raid his multiple businesses and homes.
On June 30, 2009, the HCPO arrested and charged Joseph Ruis with first-degree money laundering,
N.J.S.A. 2C:21-25;
third-degree promoting prostitution, N.J.S.A. 2C:34-1b(2);
third-degree conspiracy to promote prostitution and distribute cocaine, N.J.S.A. 2C:5-2, N.J.S.A. 2C:34-1b(2), N.J.S.A. 2C:35-5a(1), and N.J.S.A. 2C:35-5b(1);
and first-degree leading a narcotics trafficking network, N.J.S.A. 2C:35-3.

Shannan Gilbert was his co-defendent.

2007/2008
Gilbert arrested while working for Ruis.

2008
Hudson County Prosecutors Office begins investigation into Ruis.

2009
Ruis is arrested and makes cash bail.

2010
April: Trial is set for June, Ruis arraigned. Free till trial.

May: Shannan, listed as co-defendant, goes to OB and is never found alive.

June: Ruis pleads down and is out in 2 years.

Go back to 2007/2008 when Shannan was arrested in the prostitution sting working for Joseph Ruis in NJ.

It's at that time that Hudson County PO is beginning a large investigation into Ruis.
Shannan is listed as his codefendent.

Read the charges again.

Ruis was not running a simple escort service.
He was running 3 prostitution rings, limo services and other shell businesses.

Escorts and drivers - these are his employees.
Sex and cocaine - these are his goods and services.

Shannan Gilbert: employed as an escort by Ruis.
Pak and Diaz: employed as drivers by Ruis.
This is literally how the three met.

The third official charge against Ruis as stated by HCPO is conspiracy to promote prostitution and distribute cocaine. This charge is separate from his second charge of promoting prostitution.
The last official charge as stated by HCPO is leading a narcotics trafficking network in the first degree.

Shannan was directly involved in this case. She disappeared one month before it was scheduled.

If Shannan Gilbert was working with NJ in order to get out of the mess she was in on the case against Ruis, NJ would have her working whatever Ruis' business set up.
If that business (which was prostitution and cocaine, package deal) happened to lead to Suffolk County, to people in Suffolk County involved in law and politics, and on that particular night, to Oak Beach, then NJ is in a bad spot. Their intention was not to open a can of worms on Suffolk County. They wanted Ruis.
But Ruis led to Suffolk. And Shannan was HCPO's CI.
I used to think it was Ruis who, out on cash bail at the time, set Shannan up when she went out to OB that night.

But I think she was supplying for multiple places in Suffolk County, and Oak Beach was not a weird job - she was familiar with it.

Shannan wouldnt have had just a target on her back from just Ruis.
She would have had a target on her back from literally anyone who
she'd done business with while working for Ruis.
Anyone who had something to lose when the information came out during the trial.
Like who?
Pick any POI in OB who had any connection to someone in power in SC.
Pick any of the names that have come up in Suffolk County as participating in ethically questionable recreations. Law enforcement, judges, politicians.

If Shannan was scheduled to testify the next month at Ruis' trial and that testimony implicated Ruis OR any of Ruis' clients in Oak Beach or greater Suffolk County, and it was leaked that she was working w the prosecution, she's a walking target.

Idk if Pak or Shannan arranged the trip.
It could've been arranged through Ruis' agency.
But it wasnt the first time Shannan or Pak heard the words Oak Beack and Brewer was not some random john.

She went there like she had many times before for Ruis - to drop off cocaine, possibly provide sex.

This time, a month away from a trial that could implicate ALOT of people, someone was there to keep her from getting to the Ruis trial.

And the next month, there was no trial. Ruis lawyer's made a deal, no details of the investigation came out, and that was that.

Maybe that's why this 911 call is taking so long.
If Shannan was working for New Jersy's case against Ruis and uncovered a big problem in Suffolk County...generally speaking, LE is going to try to avoid involving an entire different county's LE in a case.

Maybe Shannan was trying to explain to a dispatcher that she was working for the NJ Prosecutors Office on a job in Oak Beach in which she was booked to deliver cocaine and sexual services as part of an immunity deal in a case against a guy in NJ for which she is listed as a co-defendant that is scheduled for a month from now and she got made and they're trying to kill me.

Maybe.

This is probably the best explanation ive read of what happened to Shannan when it comes to her death being caused by a killer/killers.

LISK imo had nothing to do with Shannan's death.

 

[Betty P]

Thanks for the clarification. I'm still going with my own opinion, based on the evidence thus far, that Shannan did encounter Hackett. Hopefully, we will some day learn the facts of her murder and that of the other victims.

 

[Girlinterrupted]

Just a note that today is the 12th year anniversary of Shannan's trip to Oak Beach and subsequent 911 call.

Seems like there was quite a bit of police activity in Oak Beach earlier this week.

Whether Shannan's 911 call is released to the public or to a jury, I pray Harrison makes good on his word.

Things seem to be moving. Let's hope they are moving toward justice and healing.

 

[WINDSOR]

Regarding 911 calls being released. In the recent Vicky White, Casey White case; Law Enforcement had no problem with releasing the 911 recordings almost immediately.
Just reminding SCPD.

 

[fred&edna]

Shannan Gilbert was in Manhattan on the night of Friday, April 30, 2010.
Joseph Brewer was 2 hours away in Oak Beach.

To drive from midtown manhattan to Oak Beach is 2 hours. To drive back from Oak Beach to Manhattan is 2 hours. 4 hours total travel time.
Plus Pak's cut.
IF they're working independently - which only Pak claims.

Shannan Gilbert got a call at 11pm on a Friday night from a man she'd never met before asking her to invest 4 hours of travel time into an outcall?

Joseph Brewer is lonely on a Friday night and instead of choosing from the 100s of outcall ads listed on multiple online platforms all within a 30 minute radius from him, he decides on Shannan, a girl he'd never met who is 2 hours away from him in Manhattan?

It simply does not make sense.
Shannan and Pak had been to Suffolk County before.
They had been to Oak Beach before.
This was not Brewer's first interaction with Shannan or Pak.

But Shannan was not there just to deliver sex.
Shannan and Pak were still working for Joseph Ruis.

Shannan Gilbert had been arrested in 2007/2008 in NJ while working as an escort for one of Ruis' services.
Michael Pak also worked for this man.
Alex Diaz also worked for this man.

Ruis was not running a simple escort service.
Hudson County PO investigated him for a year, starting in 2008, before obtaining a warrant to raid his multiple businesses and homes.
On June 30, 2009, the HCPO arrested and charged Joseph Ruis with first-degree money laundering,
N.J.S.A. 2C:21-25;
third-degree promoting prostitution, N.J.S.A. 2C:34-1b(2);
third-degree conspiracy to promote prostitution and distribute cocaine, N.J.S.A. 2C:5-2, N.J.S.A. 2C:34-1b(2), N.J.S.A. 2C:35-5a(1), and N.J.S.A. 2C:35-5b(1);
and first-degree leading a narcotics trafficking network, N.J.S.A. 2C:35-3.

Shannan Gilbert was his co-defendent.

2007/2008
Gilbert arrested while working for Ruis.

2008
Hudson County Prosecutors Office begins investigation into Ruis.

2009
Ruis is arrested and makes cash bail.

2010
April: Trial is set for June, Ruis arraigned. Free till trial.

May: Shannan, listed as co-defendant, goes to OB and is never found alive.

June: Ruis pleads down and is out in 2 years.

Go back to 2007/2008 when Shannan was arrested in the prostitution sting working for Joseph Ruis in NJ.

It's at that time that Hudson County PO is beginning a large investigation into Ruis.
Shannan is listed as his codefendent.

Read the charges again.

Ruis was not running a simple escort service.
He was running 3 prostitution rings, limo services and other shell businesses.

Escorts and drivers - these are his employees.
Sex and cocaine - these are his goods and services.

Shannan Gilbert: employed as an escort by Ruis.
Pak and Diaz: employed as drivers by Ruis.
This is literally how the three met.

The third official charge against Ruis as stated by HCPO is conspiracy to promote prostitution and distribute cocaine. This charge is separate from his second charge of promoting prostitution.
The last official charge as stated by HCPO is leading a narcotics trafficking network in the first degree.

Shannan was directly involved in this case. She disappeared one month before it was scheduled.

If Shannan Gilbert was working with NJ in order to get out of the mess she was in on the case against Ruis, NJ would have her working whatever Ruis' business set up.
If that business (which was prostitution and cocaine, package deal) happened to lead to Suffolk County, to people in Suffolk County involved in law and politics, and on that particular night, to Oak Beach, then NJ is in a bad spot. Their intention was not to open a can of worms on Suffolk County. They wanted Ruis.
But Ruis led to Suffolk. And Shannan was HCPO's CI.
I used to think it was Ruis who, out on cash bail at the time, set Shannan up when she went out to OB that night.

But I think she was supplying for multiple places in Suffolk County, and Oak Beach was not a weird job - she was familiar with it.

Shannan wouldnt have had just a target on her back from just Ruis.
She would have had a target on her back from literally anyone who
she'd done business with while working for Ruis.
Anyone who had something to lose when the information came out during the trial.
Like who?
Pick any POI in OB who had any connection to someone in power in SC.
Pick any of the names that have come up in Suffolk County as participating in ethically questionable recreations. Law enforcement, judges, politicians.

If Shannan was scheduled to testify the next month at Ruis' trial and that testimony implicated Ruis OR any of Ruis' clients in Oak Beach or greater Suffolk County, and it was leaked that she was working w the prosecution, she's a walking target.

Idk if Pak or Shannan arranged the trip.
It could've been arranged through Ruis' agency.
But it wasnt the first time Shannan or Pak heard the words Oak Beack and Brewer was not some random john.

She went there like she had many times before for Ruis - to drop off cocaine, possibly provide sex.

This time, a month away from a trial that could implicate ALOT of people, someone was there to keep her from getting to the Ruis trial.

And the next month, there was no trial. Ruis lawyer's made a deal, no details of the investigation came out, and that was that.

Maybe that's why this 911 call is taking so long.
If Shannan was working for New Jersy's case against Ruis and uncovered a big problem in Suffolk County...generally speaking, LE is going to try to avoid involving an entire different county's LE in a case.

Maybe Shannan was trying to explain to a dispatcher that she was working for the NJ Prosecutors Office on a job in Oak Beach in which she was booked to deliver cocaine and sexual services as part of an immunity deal in a case against a guy in NJ for which she is listed as a co-defendant that is scheduled for a month from now and she got made and they're trying to kill me.

Maybe.

Most anyone (well, at least those who've read the older threads) know I've long suspected that Shannan's death was related to her being a co-defendant with Ruis (and Pak was involved). However, I have never been able to put the puzzle pieces together. It looks as if you've possibly done it... I hope so! I only wish there was someway to dig-up more proof.

 

[Bose]

Whelp, let's see what comes out today. This afternoon, according to this article, and several others, will be the day we will be able to hear publicly for the first time content in relation to the 911 calls.

‘Somebody's After Me:' Shannan Gilbert's Long-Secret 911 Calls Are Out. Listen Here

The 911 calls are disorganized. At times she is coherent. At others, she slurs her words. Sometimes she doesn’t respond at all. And at times, she is heard screaming.

www.nbcnewyork.com

Let's hope for some leads, and greater understanding! Long time coming!