Shannan Gilbert's 23 Minute 911 Call #2

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I agree, there would be no reason for Mari to make anything up, but Hackett nevertheless has a different story about the phone call. No hypothetical jury, for instance, is going to be able to do much with a he said/she said situation. One thing that always seemed odd to me about Mari's recounting of the call was that Hackett said he ran a home for wayward girls. In fact, of course, there was an owner of such a rehab just a couple streets away, and people were mentioning him almost immediately. It wouldn't be impossible, when you're suffering a tragedy like the loss of a child, to confuse people and situations.

It’s not just he said/she said though, is it? A hypothetical jury is allowed to take into account the relative reliability of witnesses.

When one witness has been proven with evidence to be a serial liar and the other person’s claims have been repeatedly proven true by evidence, it ceases to be merely he said/she said and moves into the realms of a jury weighting the reliability of witness testimony in comparison with each other.

And Mari’s evidence HAS to outweigh his.
 
WINDSOR, very true, nothing at all can be ruled out. I explained further that is why it cannot be ruled out that dr.PH actually did give her the injection he claimed he did, & it just wasn’t found due to decomp. I personally believe she was injected with something like ketamine maybe. Police have medics inject people they arrest with Valium & ketamine all the time, I actually have body cam video where this happened to a guy in my neck of the woods and he had to be lifeflighted to the hospital because ketamine can cause acute respiratory failure. The medics around here laugh & call it “vitamin K” & I think it’s not only unconstitutional but completely irresponsible. If someone really need that drug for an extreme circumstance it should be the medics decision only, and once the suspect is in the hands of the medic that is the medics patient and all police contact should cease; especially not questioned by police while completely out of it. Around here the police have done it to get info about drugs out of people and the person usually will later, have a hard time recalling what all happened. Some people can have really bad reactions & have hallucinations. I contacted a journalist associated with NPR about my body cam videos & police use of ketamine & they followed up & spoke with one officer that was trying to also help get the info out there. After that, NPR did a sort of exposè on ketamine use by police on suspects. Just think of what someone with access to that drug could do to someone & many times the victim will not recall what all happened to them while they were under.
So while I don’t rule out that PH did in fact give her a drug like he said he did, I also don’t rule out that she did not have drugs in her system as the ME determined through whatever means.

Hi IndieCindy,
I've been seriously mulling over your mention of Ketamine since your post. I keep coming back to it.

Now, I've said before, and like many of us here, I just don't have enough forensics knowledge to know how long ketamine (or any drug administered shortly before death) would be traceable in remains, especially if the remains are greatly decomposed (thinking soft tissue/digestive system). I believe there was some brain matter still remaining, and that was tested, (don't quote me), but whatever tissue remained tested negative for drugs, to my recollection. But, I've always felt there is a possibility something could have been administered, and then not found in remains, due to decomposition/lack of tissue to test (please someone who has experience in this area chime in and help out if you can).

I was pretty shocked to see that there is a precedence for administering ketamine, that it has been done, I did not know that...and quite frankly that's very disturbing to me.

I know what it does to people, I was not present, but my friend told me back in the late 90s when "special k" was a popular recreational drug, that a friend of ours fell into a "k hole" and literally could not stand, walk, or go anywhere. To me, the implications of that are truly frightening. IMHO, CPH is at the very least culpable of being a lousy doctor, and liar, who truly botched up too many things, (or willingly committed too many things), and tried to cover it up. Worst case, in my mind, I'm still questioning his medical credentials, and seems to have more ties to emergency services of some kind than being a doctor practicing family or emergency medicine.

So, Ketamine...in my opinion, I'm filing this away, and it may be very important. You're not running anywhere while on ketamine, much less into a swampy area. You're not really moving, period, and are likely at the mercy of those around you. IMHO.
 
And, so far as CPH being a doctor, I found this interesting, just checked in with recently submitted documents in the civil case--questions about CPH being a physician, perhaps. I'm glad that's being pointed out/followed up on, looks like.
 

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Good find Bose!

Thanks, Sallyla! I'm trying to keep an eye on the case, when I can. I should have probably posted this over in the thread with the current court discussion, though. I'm gonna make a concerted effort to stay on topic!

Bose in my misspent youth I took ketamine. It’s a sedative and you wouldn’t end up running and screaming on it. Quite the opposite, as you say.

Thanks for sharing a bit of your experience with it, Sallyla. I wondered, pure conjecture, in SG's case, if something like ketamine was ready to be administered in Brewer's house (maybe by CPH), she was told what it was, and was part of the reason that made her dart out of there. Plus, wasn't it said Brewer's basement smelled like death(?) (Correct me if I'm wrong). She was a smart cookie, graduating early from school. We're not just talking street smarts, we should remember she was very intelligent, and I think that has been downplayed from time to time. Enough odd things or creepy hints of things could have happened that night, to lead up to a point where she knew she was in trouble. Especially after Brewer put his hands on her to try to remove her (again, correct me if I'm wrong). I keep thinking she had a very legitimate reason to be scared, in her mind, and I don't think it was psychosis. It's all just such a shame, and I know we all go over the same parts, and try to find new things, or possible explanations.

I could see, if it's true, that CPH "treated" her at the end of the night, it could have been given against her will, if it was...and then, well, she wasn't going to be going anywhere on her own. IMO Of course, we just don't know as much as we need to without the 911 tapes--that, itself, could fill in many major gaps and make things understandable. "Ongoing investigation" I understand. But, why can't we even hear some parts of it, and if there is a third person there they can "bleep" out that person's voice in the background, or anything that might be pertinent to catching/conviction for their "ongoing" part. I wish they could at least do that.
 
Bose, it’s interesting that she placed a call to CVS pharmacy shortly before it kicked off. Plus Shannan had done some nursing training so may well have had a good knowledge of non-recreational drugs.

I’m a student nurse. We have drugs for advanced cancer patients which aren’t general anaesthetics but the make patients so sedated they cannot move and don’t see or hear what’s around them, like a very deep sleep. If someone was giving her anything I’d bet on that type of drug. Shannan is offered a drug she is told is recreational, cocaine or heroin. She sees it came from a vial that doesn’t look like street drugs but has a similar name. She calls CVS to confirm what it is and flees when she realises they want to put her under because she knows that = death.

Speculation, totally. But I have pondered that scenario.
 
Thank you for posting this, White_Rabbit!

I had a chance to watch late last night, and this morning. It does cost a subscription, unfortunately, but it was worth it for the last episode, IMO. Talk with Baden over SG's remains, and explanation (visually) about the issues with the horns of the hyoid bone.

Also appreciated seeing some of the lab work that might be happening, and really of interest for me, the video map re: old cellphones with some data clustered over Brightwaters. I saw that was also an area of interest with the Geographic Profiling thread. This is where the parents of my POI#2 lived, and where he lived for a time. I know he was at that house regularly, even after moving out.
 
Thank you for posting this, White_Rabbit!

I had a chance to watch late last night, and this morning. It does cost a subscription, unfortunately, but it was worth it for the last episode, IMO. Talk with Baden over SG's remains, and explanation (visually) about the issues with the horns of the hyoid bone.

Also appreciated seeing some of the lab work that might be happening, and really of interest for me, the video map re: old cellphones with some data clustered over Brightwaters. I saw that was also an area of interest with the Geographic Profiling thread. This is where the parents of my POI#2 lived, and where he lived for a time. I know he was at that house regularly, even after moving out.

Thanks Bose!
 
When I read the news report I got all excited, then the cynical part of my personality said, "yeah but it will be full of redactions".

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When I read the news report I got all excited, then the cynical part of my personality said, "yeah but it will be full of redactions".

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The word evidence is used to loosely.
Watching Megan walk, not flee, is not evidence.
SG? I think she ran into the marsh and died from drugs.
She probably brought some to OB.
She left the house with JB.
Who's house did JB bring her to in OB?.
It's where she got more drugs. IMO.
The 911 call may be disturbing.
But I don't think it's evidence.
Did SG encounter Dr. Hackett?
Maybe.
 
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SG “died from drugs”did she? Oh right after calling for help screaming that people were trying to kill her, and then she ends up dead in a reedy marsh in very shallow water. Not buying it nor anyone else who tries to sell that narrative. Whether or not she was or was not on drugs or did or did not suffer from mental illness does not explain away the facts of that evening nor does it account for the suspicious behaviors of CPH MP and even JB the John who professes on a radio broadcast to having friends in the PD. Anyone attempting to silence the narrative of domestic violence, sexual exploitation and human trafficking is suspicious in and of themselves.
 
SG “died from drugs”did she? Oh right after calling for help screaming that people were trying to kill her, and then she ends up dead in a reedy marsh in very shallow water. Not buying it nor anyone else who tries to sell that narrative. Whether or not she was or was not on drugs or did or did not suffer from mental illness does not explain away the facts of that evening nor does it account for the suspicious behaviors of CPH MP and even JB the John who professes on a radio broadcast to having friends in the PD. Anyone attempting to silence the narrative of domestic violence, sexual exploitation and human trafficking is suspicious in and of themselves.

Great analysis, ListeningAndWatching,

EVIDENCE: the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.

clear sky, I do not believe the word 'evidence' is used loosely by many sleuthers. IMO
 
SG “died from drugs”did she? Oh right after calling for help screaming that people were trying to kill her, and then she ends up dead in a reedy marsh in very shallow water. Not buying it nor anyone else who tries to sell that narrative. Whether or not she was or was not on drugs or did or did not suffer from mental illness does not explain away the facts of that evening nor does it account for the suspicious behaviors of CPH MP and even JB the John who professes on a radio broadcast to having friends in the PD. Anyone attempting to silence the narrative of domestic violence, sexual exploitation and human trafficking is suspicious in and of themselves.
JB asked MP to get SG out of the house.
That does not sound like a murder plot to me. She ran to GC house.
He called 911.
She ran away.
Why would she do that if she believed there was a plot?
She was already on the phone with 911.
It would not surprise me if Brewer scared her to get out of the house.
That might have prompted her to call 911.
I think that would be the extent of it.
 
Great analysis, ListeningAndWatching,

EVIDENCE: the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.

clear sky, I do not believe the word 'evidence' is used loosely by many sleuthers. IMO
I will clarify.
I don't think SG 911 call and the video of Megan exiting the hotel will lead to the identity of LISK. I do think Megan's pimp got a call and told her to go out to meet a client.
He made sure he was not caught on camera.
 

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