I thought Darin left to after Karen as soon as the paramedics came in. That one paramedic testified that he passed Darin on his way to Devon, that there was not enough room for both of them in that area. I think they were positioned by the glass sliding doors only briefly after Darlie hung up the phone and while W&W searched the downstairs. I think they searched upstairs after paramedics came in. Not sure about that. I was always going to chart all those testimonies but never did. Jeff always said there were lots of inconsistencies between them.beesy said:
She cut her own throat
- Thread starter beesy
- Start date
''deandaniellws said:
One problem with that that I noticed the other day. Darlie fretted all over about why her fingerprints were on the knife but neither of them seemed to care if his were. I don't think he ever touched that knife. So unless he whipped out his swiss pocket knife and finished Damon on with it and pitched it down the sewer with whatever else he may have pitched, I don't think Darin stabbed anyone. It might be just as simple as he didn't want any part of the dirty work. That or he really did stumple into total chaos unknowingly. Not ready to go that far yet, but Darin doing the second stabbing appears to be incorrect.
According to that poly I was talking about...he did stab or cut Darlie. What he used I have no idea. I never said I had proof. I thought we were here spouting out theories. I just gave one of mine. I didn't ask you to believe it. I only stated that I believe it. And if you are going to get into specifics...the whole second attack is a theory. We have nothing to conclusively prove that it actually happened at all. It was just a theory a few of us were kicking around.Goody said:
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What if Darlie never planned on cutting her throat or stabbing her arm. What if they did it together and planned it as said. Couldn't they discover the boys in the morning, say they slept together the witnesses are dead. They let them stay up and camp out in the den.beesy said:
Darin decides to take Darlie out too, telling her after the struggle that bruises her arms, he stabs her in the shoulder, and slashes her throat, that she will be more innocent looking if she is hurt too. She can say she was attacked. He may have planned it all along this way and had intended to take her out too. She fought too hard and called 911 too quick. He surprised her? The cleanup would be to eliminate any evidence she killed the boys -who cares if your own blood is on the floor, you can say you bled in there, practically anywhere she went in the house she could say I was bleeding. I ran upstairs to get more towels, I went to the bathroom to wet some etc.She could explain her blood anywhere she went she lived there. Not cutting your feet, I can do it too. You just don't step hard on the floor you lead with your toes just like Darlie did. She leaves good toe impressions then she rolls her heel back and she pronates to the outer side of her foot. If you feel anything sharp you would stop.
Like I said before why clean up your own blood. The clean up was to eliminate something else. Something that couldn't be explained. Thats why it had to be cleaned up.
Am I posing too many questions too?
True, but anytime any of us notices a hole or weak point in a theory we tend to point it out. Don't be so sensitive. We are websleuthing, aren't we? Putting our heads together to work out the kinks? I was just pointing out one in yours, although you aren't the only who thinks Darin did do the second stabbing on Damon. Sometimes I wonder if he didn't do all the stabbing on Damon, but I don't see anything that supports either theory.deandaniellws said:
Also, I am not so sure about that polygraph. I don't believe Darin cut her. That cut wreaks of being self inflicted, imo. And it is clearly not a suicide attempt as Dr D clearly pointed out in his testimony. I think she did it either just before she called Darin downstairs or shortly before she called 911. But something must have happened to delay the call because I think she bled more than originally intended.
The clean up is hard to figure. It obviously was something started and abandoned (on the floor). The sink area clean up must have been to get rid of Darlie's blood. She just didn't want them to know that is where she cut her throat. It makes sense she would cut it there. Being a neatnik like she was, the sink would be the natural place to do something like that so as not to make a mess before she was ready for it to be made.G.I.RattlesnakeJane said:
I think the clean up on the floor was another matter. Maybe Devon's death was not intentional. Let's say she snapped or that she and Darin were arguing and that it got so heated with one of them waving the knife around that one of them stabbed Devon or hurt him in the heat of the moment. Maybe the first plan was to take his body somewhere else and clean up the blood she tracked into the kitchen. She or they tried to clean it and it soon became apparent that it was a futile effort so they abandoned that idea and came up with the intruder story. That would explain the poor planning.
Or maybe the killings were planned and the initial plan had to be abandoned and what we see now is just some last minute thing thrown together. Like maybe the crime scene just got away from them...more blood than they estimated, less control than they figured, etc, etc.
I thought you were defending your theory because I hurt your feelings. Sorry. Didn't mean to offend.deandaniellws said:
As for the polygraph, I don't put much stock into them if they aren't given by the FBI. It is just too easy to manipulate the results to trust just anyone in any situation to do them correctly. Maybe it is right on, but I suspect that Pardo was using this case to further some other private agenda, like maybe anti death penalty, and that he may have seen Darin as the perfect sacrificial lamb. The same way some supporters see Detective Patterson's kid as the perfect patsy. It seems unlikely to me that Darin could have been guilty in all 5 questions. Unless he cut her in the midst of a heated rage and that started the killings.....nah, the more i think about it, the more I am leaning toward planning being done in advance. I just can't forget that little business in early May....somehow it all ties together.
Hadn't thought about it being Devon just got in the way. That makes more sense than Darlie just going off on Devon.Goody said:
It doesn't make sense that it happened so late at night. Since Darin did supposidly go to bed there would have been some reason that he went back downstairs and it got really heated. Course I guess he could have just gone up stairs for a while and maybe simmer too much and went back downstairs and things got started again. Will we ever know? This case is so frustrating.
Anybody ever wonder how much evidence that the prosecutor had that they didn't use; I just can't imagine them not trying to retrieve stuff from the street drain. That would seems to important.
Well, of course,he was involved. I agree with you there. I just can't find anything that supports him cutting her. I think if he cut her that she would have been cut much deeper. Those knifes are incredibly sharp, and the whole angle of the cut is consistent with a self inflicted wound. Can't rule it out completely though. Just don't feel comfortable with ruling it in.deandaniellws said:
beesy
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This is Officer Waddell's testimony
A. The paramedics.
10 Q. From the Rowlett Fire Department?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. Can you just describe briefly, how
13 they came in and where they went to?
14 A. When they came in I was standing right
15 here beside the defendant. At that time her husband was
16 in there, Darin. I told both of them to come back over
17 here and sit down up against the sliding glass doors, and
18 kind of stay out of the way.
19 Q. Okay. Is there a sliding glass door
20 that's on this portion of the room that leads from the
21 family room back out into the garage?
22 A. It leads into the backyard.
23 Q. Yeah, into the backyard. Okay. From
24 the family room into the backyard. Also some windows
25 across this portion of the room; is that right?
11 A. No. At one point Darin Routier told
12 me that there was a nurse that lived across the street.
13 And, I told him that if she was a nurse, that she could
14 come over, that we did need some help.
15 Q. All right. At that time, had the
16 paramedics got there yet?
18 Q. No. At the time that you had that
19 conversation with Darin?
20 A. Oh, no, sir. No.
Waddell, was Sergeant Walling there when you had a
13 conversation with Darin about the nurse across the
14 street?
15 A. No.
16 Q. That was before Sergeant Walling had
17 arrived?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. But Darin was there in the den, or in
20 this room with you and Darlie, when Sergeant Walling
21 arrived, was he?
22 A. I think he was.
23 Q. At any rate, the conversation that you
24 had with Darin, was it in the family room when you asked
25 about help?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
407
1 A. I don't recall where we were. I just
2 remember him saying that a nurse lived across the street
19 Q. And in the meantime he's yelling at
20 you to get help?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Did he tell you, "Don't just stand
23 there, get some help"?
24 A. I don't remember him saying that.
25 Q. Well, tell the jury what he was
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
409
1 saying.
2 A. He was yelling at me to get some help
3 and get someone out there.
4 Q. Well, did he yell at you? How loud
5 was he speaking?
6 A. He was yelling at me.
7 Q. He was excited, wasn't he?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. How was he dressed?
10 A. Blue jeans, no shirt, no shoes.
11 Q. All right. Barefooted, no shirt and a
12 pair of jeans on?
13 A. Right.
14 Q. Well, how many times did he yell at
15 you to get help?
16 A. I don't know. I don't remember.
4 Q. Okay. All right. So, you saw them(medics)
5 come in. And, at that time was Darlie still here?6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Okay. And was Darin, where?
8 A. I think, when the paramedics came in,
9 I told both of them to sit down by the sliding glass
10 door.
11 Q. At that time, I take it, you hadn't
12 told them to go get help from the neighbor?
13 A. I had already told him that. I told
14 him that within the first minute or so of me showing up
15 there.
16 Q. Well, did he go at that time and get
17 help from the neighbor?
18 A. I don't know if he did or not.
19 Q. Well, now, before lunch you told us
20 that he stayed in the area with the child until Walling
21 got there.
22 A. Yes, sir.
23 Q. Has something changed your mind?
24 A. No, sir, it's the same.
25 Q. Okay. So, he didn't leave then?
5 Q. Are you saying he left and went some
6 place?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Well, now, you're supposedly guarding
9 the safety, not only of yourself, but these other people.
10 Wasn't that your main purpose in being there?
11 A. That's one of the reasons, yes.
12 Q. Okay. And you're saying you lost
13 track of him, you're telling me he just wandered off?
14 A. I assumed he was going across the
15 street like he told me he was.
16 Q. All right. Well, did he leave or not?
17 A. At one point he did. I don't know at
18 what point that was.
19 Q. Did he ever leave the house?
20 A. I assume that he did.
21 Q. Okay. Did you -- incidentally, did
22 you and -- when you told him, or permitted him to go get
23 help from a neighbor, were y'all standing out here on the
24 porch?
25 A. No, sir.
Ok, so that shows that Waddell told Darlie and Darin to sit by the glass door before the medics arrived and they did. Waddell has given Darin the ok to get Karen, but doesn't know when Darin left the house. Note: Darlie is alert.
http://www.justicefordarlie.net/transcripts/volumes/vol-29.php#1
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BRIAN LELAND KOSCHAK,
17 Q. Okay. Was there anything that you
18 could do for that child?
19 A. No, sir.
20 Q. Did you stay over there with him, or
21 did you go to someone else in that room?
22 A. I went to Mrs. Routier after that.
23 Q. Okay. And was she still over near the
24 kitchen bar with Officer Waddell?
25 A. Yes, sir.
23 A. Yes. She was alert and oriented.
20 A. She was holding a rag to her neck.
21 Q. How about as far as her demeanor?
22 What was she doing? What was she saying? How did she
23 appear to be doing at that point?
24 A. She was -- she asked who could have
25 done this to her babies. She wasn't -- she was upset.
1 She was upset.
2 Q. Okay. Crying? Screaming?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Now, did you stay inside the residence
5 with her or did you take her somewhere to treat her?
6 A. I asked her to come with me to the
7 front porch. I wanted to get out of the house and deemed
8 it being necessary for both of us -- be a good thing to
9 get out of the house.
10 Q. All right. And did she follow your
11 instructions, and did she go with you to the front porch?
12 A. She did.
13 Q. All right. Did she seem to have any
14 difficulties understanding what you wanted her to do at
15 that point?
16 A. No, sir.
17 Q. So you spent a short period of time
18 inside, and then you went out to the front porch and you
19 began assessing her injuries again; is that right?
20 A. That's correct.
21 Q. Now, again, when you're trying to
22 assess a patient for possible treatment, Paramedic, what
23 are you looking for? What types of things are you
24 looking for?
1 looking for excessive blood loss, due to her appearance,
2 and shock, due to the lacerations and the blood that she
3 had on her chest area. I was looking for hypovolemic
4 shock in this case.
5 Q. Okay. So you're looking -- I guess
6 you've looked at her injuries by this time; right?
7 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Okay. You were talking about -- I
25 think at one time you talked about a shock by the name of
1 hypovolemic shock; is that right?
2 A. Yes, sir, that's correct.
3 Q. Is that where you lose enough blood
4 that you go into shock?
5 A. That's correct.
6 Q. Are there other types of shock besides
7 that?
8 A. There are.
9 Q. Okay. Let me just ask you: Have you
10 ever heard of cardiogenic shock?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. What kind of shock is that?
13 A. It's failure of the heart to pump
14 adequate blood to the vital organs and to the body.
15 Q. All right. Did it appear to you that
16 Mrs. Routier was having any heart problems that would
17 cause that type of shock?
18 A. No, sir.
19 Q. Have you ever heard of neurogenic
20 shock?
21 A. Yes, sir.
22 Q. Okay. What type of shock is
23 neurogenic shock?
24 A. The central nervous system of the body
25 is not performing correctly, therefore dilating blood
1 vessels and arteries and inadequate blood profusion to
2 the brain and heart occurs.
3 Q. And what kind of symptoms will you see
4 for that kind of shock?
5 A. The same symptoms of almost all types
6 of shock, with the exception of septic, are pale skin
7 color, disorientation, sometimes fainting, sometimes
8 combative, decreasing blood pressure, falling decreasing
9 blood pressure, things of that nature.
10 Q. Were you seeing any of those items in
11 Mrs. Routier while you were out on the front porch with
12 her?
13 A. No, sir.
14 Q. Are you beginning to give her
15 treatment for her injuries at that time?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. Okay. What are you doing for her?
18 A. Begin bandaging up her neck and her
19 arm.
12 Q. Okay. Was the stretcher actually
13 brought to the front porch?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. Did you tell the defendant what you
16 were about to do?
17 A. Yes, sir. I asked her to please step
18 over here and sit on the stretcher.
19 Q. Okay. Did she seem to have any
20 problems understanding what you were asking her to do?
21 A. No, sir.
22 Q. Did she go over to the stretcher and
23 get on the stretcher for you?
24 A. Yes, sir.
This shows that Darlie was not "falling apart" as some supporters have suggested. She was alert and able to walk around and did not pass out at any time while in the care of Koschack. He carefully checked her for shock and she showed no symptoms of any type of shock
http://www.justicefordarlie.net/transcripts/volumes/vol-32.php#6
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See my posts #57 and #58. D&D were told to sit or stand near the glass doors before the medics arrived. I'm not sure if the story about them whispering together is true or not. I wouldn't be surprised if it was.Goody said:
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