Sheri Coleman, sons Garett and Gavin murdered 5-5-09, Columbia, IL. Pt9

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While I do understand what you are getting at, Wrinkles...do you think the Judge is going to clear the courtroom when these things are addressed there to protect JMM's privacy concerns? JMM can ask for confidentiality, but the realistic view is that under the law they have no expectation of such in this matter, imo. This is a wrongful death suit and everything will have a value to the case or it would not have been requested by Sheri's family.

I don't think anything should be kept secret in regards to Christopher Coleman's employment with JMM.
 
Hello SeriouslySearching,

You wrote:
>>I don't think anything should be kept secret in regards to Christopher Coleman's employment with JMM. <<

I would agree that if any document is/was directly related to CC, that it is pertinent to the case and not confidential. I do not believe that everything that was asked for will be related to CC or the case, thus I comprehend asking for confidentiality under particular circumstances.

I hope that everyone can come to an understanding soon so that things can move forward.
 
Hello SeriouslySearching,

You wrote:
>>I don't think anything should be kept secret in regards to Christopher Coleman's employment with JMM. <<

I would agree that if any document is/was directly related to CC, that it is pertinent to the case and not confidential. I do not believe that everything that was asked for will be related to CC or the case, thus I comprehend asking for confidentiality under particular circumstances.

I hope that everyone can come to an understanding soon so that things can move forward.
If the information is unrelated to the case, why did they ask for it?
 
If the information is unrelated to the case, why did they ask for it?


I can see where if they asked for flight manifests that the majority of people on those are not involved in this case. JMM may have asked for confidentiality because she has pretty much been villified because she was his employer. Maybe they are thinking that other employees that were CC's "friends" would be villified too. It could be as simple as that or as bad as many of you think. JMO
 
Hello again mon amie SS,

>>If the information is unrelated to the case, why did they ask for it?<<

Good question... They asked for all private airplane manifests, obviously, because they want to peruse them to see if there IS something pertinent to the case within them. If there is nothing in 998 out of 1000 airplane manifests that have anything to do with the case, then those 998 manifests are clearly "unrelated" to the case -- they were used to fish for something which might be related to it.

I asked my husband for an example of what I am trying to express. He said, "So, if some stranger comes up the road and dies in our front yard, is it right for people to come and look in our refrigerator to see if that stranger broke in and helped themselves to something in our fridge that poisoned them?" LOL Sorry, I couldn't resist -- that was so too dumb that it bore repeating just because it was worth a laugh. I said, "No hon, I don't think that works." :) On the other hand... If the guy hung himself, and if we said, "Our laundry room was broken into today...the only thing touched was our dirty clothes basket." If they wanted to request the contents of our basket, I might say, "Okay, but the undies are confidential, OKAY?" Unless they could prove to me that something about our undies killed the stranger (like he used one of my underwire bras to hang himself), all undies but those pertinent to that which he used to hang himself would be requested to be kept confidential. Sorry -- this is a REALLY REALLY stupid example (maybe not entirely), I would rather have a legal case to quote from where an all round fishing expedition with no confidentiality was not allowed for good reason.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Request_for_production"]Request for Production:[/ame]

>>A request for production is a legal request for documents, electronically stored information, or other tangible items. In civil procedure, during the discovery phase of litigation, a party to a lawsuit may request that another party provide any documents that it has that pertain to the subject matter of the lawsuit.<<

I see the "pertain to the subject matter." In the above "Request for Production" notes from the civil suit, most identify CC in them or something which would directly relate to him, but not all. The private airplane manifest is "broad" -- and certainly all private airplane manifests in the possession of JMM do not have something to do with this case. IF private airplane manifests which listed CC or MM or some other woman known to be hanging with CC, or included an alias of MM, perhaps this would be pertinent. Instead, there is the fishing expedition, and I just don't know if that is appropriate.

>>Illinois Response to Request for Production
A response to a request for production is a response to a request for production propounded by the opposing party. For each item or category in the request, the response must either state that the inspection and related activities will be permitted as requested, or state an objection and the reasons for the objection. An objection to part of a request must specify the part and permit inspection of the rest. A party responding to a request for production must do so within an amount of time usually determined by statute or statewide civil procedure rule. Most jurisdictions require that each request be separately answered in writing and under oath. Most jurisdictions also required that any objection specifically state the grounds for the objection. SmartRules Illinois simplifies the rules for complying with codes, rules of court, civil procedure and local court rules, in a single search. SmartRules covers pleadings, timing, format, motion practice, subpoenas, filing and service.<<

I would like Sheri's family to have every benefit of the doubt in proving CC guilty of a) directly causing the deaths (which I think he did) or b) causing the deaths due to his negligence, but I do not think it is responsible to ask for things which may not be pertinent without indicating that when those things are found, they will be respected as confidential. Just my opinion, for what it is worth...and maybe not much based on my stupid example :)
 
If this is a 100% non-profit organization, I don't know why they need to keep anything private, other than other employee's personal information. Sorry, but when you go non-profit, or government, it should be public record.
 
Hello Kimster,

If this is a 100% non-profit organization, I don't know why they need to keep anything private, other than other employee's personal information. Sorry, but when you go non-profit, or government, it should be public record.

Well, perhaps the question is in the "should be" (what we might personally think) and "must be" (the actual law) -- and unfortunately, I do not know the law on the situation. Additionally, I guess it could be just a matter of opinion about "why they need to keep anything private." I can actually see good reasons for this, and I feel this way about any number of entities, and not just the one that we are discussing. On the other hand, again I don't know the law on the matter, so maybe it is not a matter of opinion, but of law. You may be right, I may be wrong, either way, my opinion on an insistence that any entity (profit or non) be required to allow an insistence to open anything and everything for scrutiny due to a request (without specific reason, and without the ability to ask for an honoring of confidentiality in certain cases), doesn't change (as if it matters :) So I guess we respectfully disagree or, at least, have different opinions :)

This page has some interesting commentary on exclusions on disclosure, but I don't know if it is applicable in this situation. This page also has some information. Again, I don't know if it is applicable. Certainly a non-profit must disclose certain things, but I don't think that this is all inclusive -- particularly without a "direct necessity" being shown and without a "confidentiality" stipulation for certain info.

From the above page ...
>>Public access must be provided promptly on request by allowing inspection of the documents at the organization's office or offices, and by providing copies of the documents promptly in response to any in-person request or within 30 days for a written request. However, organizations don't have to provide copies if they make these materials widely available through publication on the Internet, or if the IRS determines that the organization is being subject to a harassment campaign.<<

In the situation we are discussing, I can appreciate Sheri's family's needs and I am quite on their side in attempting to prove CC's guilt in the wrongful deaths. I'll leave my point, which is sounding like a broken record about now, and hope for the best in the situation.
 
Wrinkles - You do a great job in posting the research on everything involved in this case! I appreciate your hard work. :blowkiss:

In the case of confidentiality for JMM - I guess I can see it both ways. At first, I felt like it is a non-profit and that shouldn't give them the right for confidentiality. However, I can see that some items really aren't related to this case - but the only way prosecutors, or civil suit attorneys, can know that is to see the information. And I don't know if there is a possibility that confidentiality can be granted on those things unrelated to the cases at hand - but it would have to be an after-the-disclosure determination. JMM would be tied to the opinion of the attorneys - and we would not need to see the entire report. There's no reason to disclose personal info on people totally unrelated to CC, SC, TL, and those who had no knowledge of wrong-doings. On the other hand, too many non-profits hide behind the non-profit label and if they are doing things above board, then they shouldn't be afraid of exposure - they should welcome it. It would just be another feather in their cap. But when they fight it, you have to wonder what they're hiding. And I believe JMM is hiding a lot of things - not just things related to the CC incident. My personal feeling is that they are afraid of disclosure of things that would expose their own backsides and lead to other inquiries having nothing to do with this case.

Basically, I don't know that everything needs to be exposed - but I want it to be. So that makes me :confused:!
 
SS, I read your post after I made my last post and I concur :)

The main reason I even said anything was to gain sympathy for Mrs. C. I feel bad that she is dealing with everything! I can't even fathom what she is going through.

I guess I'm a big old meanie, I don't feel any sympathy for them at all, and am not concerned that this might make her more ill. Her son apparently didn't care much about his mother's health, why should I? Not to mention they don't seem bothered to have lost two grandkids and a daughter in law. The only people I feel for are SC's true family and friends.

I've put them on my list with the Anthonys, Petersons, stepfamily of the little boy in Brazil, etc. All the bad ones.
 
Sheri Coleman lawyer seeks court order against Joyce Meyer
By Nicholas J.C. Pistor
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH​
06/29/2009

Attorneys for Sheri Coleman's family filed papers today demanding a court to order Joyce Meyer Ministries to cooperate with a wrongful death lawsuit against Christopher Coleman, the ministry's former security chief.

The ministry has vowed to cooperate, but is also asking for a confidentiality agreement. Jack Carey, a Belleville lawyer representing Sheri Coleman's family, said the level of confidentiality requested by Joyce Meyer Ministries would prevent him from "prosecuting the case."

"Ain't gonna happen," Carey said of the proposed confidentiality agreement.

Now, Carey wants a judge to order the internationally known televangelist's organization to hand over information about life insurance policies, safe deposit boxes, pensions, overheard conversations, travel records, private flight plans and other information. The Jefferson County-based ministry is named as a "respondent in discovery" in the civil suit.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...BF88BA57BE18EBE4862575E4005C54B9?OpenDocument

Good article - states the case for how a confidentiality agreement could impede the case.
 
I do really like their attorney! He is no nonsense about it. I think the Judge will agree with him, too.

The ministry, through its lawyers, sent Carey a draft protective order earlier this month, which would give it the power to designate as confidential all or any part of the requested information. The agreement would also allow Joyce Meyer Ministries to challenge various documents provided by the ministry if Carey wanted to use them at trial&#8212;or in the run up to trial.

Carey wrote to a lawyer representing Joyce Meyer Ministries last week saying, "As I view [the draft protective order], if I elect to use any of the materials in subsequent pleadings, memorandums, client communication, press releases, I first must seek the permission of Joyce Meyer Ministries, Inc., ain&#8217;t gonna happen."

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...BF88BA57BE18EBE4862575E4005C54B9?OpenDocument
 
Remember how fast it was pointed out that the girl in the JMM video wasn't TL? I think that TL WAS at the JMM events that took place in the Tampa Bay area, Arizona & Hawaii, and JM is well aware that a woman, other than his wife, was traveling with CC.

I doubt that she wants the abused women who are her target audience to find out that she was, albeit inadverdantly, helping to cuckold a woman who was not only a faithful believer, but one who held her in such high esteem. . . how in the hell could that happen, anyway?

I also greive that JMM is so afraid of losing her "power", that she continues to sweep this tragedy under the rug as much as her power makes possible.
 
GO JACK CAREY GO!!!

cheer.gif
 
Remember how fast it was pointed out that the girl in the JMM video wasn't TL? I think that TL WAS at the JMM events that took place in the Tampa Bay area, Arizona & Hawaii, and JM is well aware that a woman, other than his wife, was traveling with CC.

I doubt that she wants the abused women who are her target audience to find out that she was, albeit inadverdantly, helping to cuckold a woman who was not only a faithful believer, but one who held her in such high esteem. . . how in the hell could that happen, anyway?

I also greive that JMM is so afraid of losing her "power", that she continues to sweep this tragedy under the rug as much as her power makes possible.
Hi Lindanette:

I was the one who pointed out that the young lady in question in a particular YouTube clip was not TL but was instead a young lady who works for JMM. I don't know whether or not TL was at other events. I highly doubt it but I don't have anything other than my own thoughts on the matter to back that up.

Regardless...it sure is hard to see things slow down, isn't it? I wish we were to the next step towards justice.
 
We know she did fly out to see him during events. If he was supposed to be in charge of security detail...wouldn't that mean he had to be "on the clock" 24/7? This would mean some people had to see TL with him at some point. He isn't going to fly his mistress out and not see her! Makes no sense.

It would indicate others of the group probably did know about his relationship with TL. How do you keep a woman a secret when you have to do your job?

I want to know what JMM wants to keep hidden and "secret" from everyone. They say they are above board on everything and "transparent" in their ministry, but they survive by insisting on confidentiality agreements. Interesting.
 
We know she did fly out to see him during events. If he was supposed to be in charge of security detail...wouldn't that mean he had to be "on the clock" 24/7? This would mean some people had to see TL with him at some point. He isn't going to fly his mistress out and not see her! Makes no sense.

It would indicate others of the group probably did know about his relationship with TL. How do you keep a woman a secret when you have to do your job?

I want to know what JMM wants to keep hidden and "secret" from everyone. They say they are above board on everything and "transparent" in their ministry, but they survive by insisting on confidentiality agreements. Interesting.



I would have to agree with you here. Someone had to see something or have heard some conversations or something. It was allready stated that TL would meet him at these places so how did no one see them together and so on. So unless there is a lot more (in my opinion i think there is) that JMM isn't wanting anyone to find out about, there should be no reason to keep it confidential. And i also agree that they do the survival with the confidentiality agreements. That is how a lot of these people keep a float.
 
So, JMM is ONLY out for THEMSELVES and they'll only cooperate when they WANT to? :mad:

YouHoo! MSSSSSSSS Meyers! This is REALLY BAD PR for your organization. Do the right thing, turn those documents over. :( ...................or are you HIDING something?:confused:

JMHO
fran
 
This comment is intended mainly for the St Louis members of this forum who have seen firsthand the lavish lifestyle of JM and her inner circle:

Do you ever get the feeling that this incident will be the whole unravelling of the JMM? I have a gut feeling that there is more here than just the possibility of MM being in events with CC. The entire MM thing could be looked at as a potential convert to the cause.....
 
This comment is intended mainly for the St Louis members of this forum who have seen firsthand the lavish lifestyle of JM and her inner circle:

Do you ever get the feeling that this incident will be the whole unravelling of the JMM? I have a gut feeling that there is more here than just the possibility of MM being in events with CC. The entire MM thing could be looked at as a potential convert to the cause.....

Hmmm. I don't know, but, my DH has been saying this all along. I hope so, there is just so much wrong there. The whole tax fraud, er, tax exempt thing is something that should be stopped. I had heard that the US Congress was investigating JMM along with some other of the money ministries, I have never heard that investigation is finished. So, hopefully, if good comes out of tragedy, stopping JMM would be good out of evil.
 
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