SIDEBAR #56 - Travis Alexander forum

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YESorNo,

Thank you so much for doing such a good job with relaying your snippets of KN's book. I have read it, but seeing you break it down brings it to a whole new level. Again, thank you.
 
I can't cut and paste myself or I would. I'm an historian, and always despair when sources get buried and lost.

I've been teading thru what you've posted here about his book, though, and you've said you don't read on the main thread at all? Or have an interest in putting your excerpts there?

I feel like I'm intruding on a private party here, then, and shouldn't have asked. My bad. Sorry. :(

I don't read on the main thread anymore because I dislike repetition of the facts of the trial. :gaah: I mainly post anything that is new about the murderer- like her appeals or any new articles, etc. -along with my other stuff :facepalm:

I don't understand the reason that "sources get buried and lost". Won't these things "get lost" in the main thread? Is there a dedicated thread about Lawrence's book? Maybe someone should make one and I would also copy and past about the book there when I post here, otherwise I see no need for me to do that as the info is here on The Sidebar for anyone to read if they care to. I'm not trying to be difficult; I just don't understand the need.

And please don't think you are "intruding on a private party here". :therethere: (There's nothing private here) I'm sorry you feel this way (I hope that no one, including me, has led you to believe that you are not welcomed here). The Sidebar is for anyone on WS to read, post, and enjoy. We're a very friendly bunch and it would nice for more WSers to come and post here. This thread is sort of a "anything- goes" one and is quite refreshing, IMO, and for all/anyone to join in with us and post whatever.

:blowkiss:
 
@Niner, I agree. What Nurmi doesn't seem to acknowledge at all is that you can "lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink it".

I have a son that we have been trying to get counseling for since he hit his teens due to his depression, OCD and compounded by his Tourette's, but if he won't work with the counselor(may actually go but just "suffers" through the session rather than becoming a participant) or just refuses to go at all, let alone take any responsibility for his own well-being and happiness(refuses to adhere to a sensible diet/exercise/social regimen), at some point you have to let yourself off the hook and realize that they are the only one that can get the help they need and that only after they make the decision that they want it. As parents or friends all we can do is be there to support them and if need be report them should they become a danger to either others or themselves. It's very heart wrenching and for that reason I won't judge JA's family(too much...) since we really don't know what they went through with her.

I do recall that JA hadn't actually lived at home since she was 17(from the sounds of it her parents had already been through the mill trying to deal with her). So after an estrangement of 12/13 years where it sounds like her family had pretty much little to no contact with her due to her paranoia of letting them anywhere near her, we(that includes some lawyer that doesn't know them from TA) shouldn't really have expected them to drop their lives and come running to her defense for literally years to support her for committing a criminal act that it seems they were quite aware she was probably responsible for.

I'm surprised they showed up as much as they did, given the circumstances(out of state, estrangement), though you can be sure they had drank so much of her kool-aid that they may not have known up from down and were just trying to do the best they could. It sounds like they had enough personal difficulties to deal with(restaurant business/ill health/etc) and then to have the public eye trained on you for any response re JA... :shame::gaah:

BBM That's, unfortunately, one of the sad facts about people who have a mental illness. :sigh:
 
I can't cut and paste myself or I would. I'm an historian, and always despair when sources get buried and lost.

I've been teading thru what you've posted here about his book, though, and you've said you don't read on the main thread at all? Or have an interest in putting your excerpts there?

I feel like I'm intruding on a private party here, then, and shouldn't have asked. My bad. Sorry. :(

Hope4, do come and visit here!! There is no private party, for sure........ but we all have several threads we try to keep up with, if only by reading. Is there no one who frequents the Main Board willing to copy/paste things from here to there?



I don't read on the main thread anymore because I dislike repetition of the facts of the trial. :gaah: I mainly post anything that is new about the murderer- like her appeals or any new articles, etc. -along with my other stuff :facepalm:

I don't understand the reason that "sources get buried and lost". Won't these things "get lost" in the main thread? Is there a dedicated thread about Lawrence's book? Maybe someone should make one and I would also copy and past about the book there when I post here, otherwise I see no need for me to do that as the info is here on The Sidebar for anyone to read if they care to. I'm not trying to be difficult; I just don't understand the need.

And please don't think you are "intruding on a private party here". :therethere: (There's nothing private here) I'm sorry you feel this way (I hope that no one, including me, has led you to believe that you are not welcomed here). The Sidebar is for anyone on WS to read, post, and enjoy. We're a very friendly bunch and it would nice for more WSers to come and post here. This thread is sort of a "anything- goes" one and is quite refreshing, IMO, and for all/anyone to join in with us and post whatever.

:blowkiss:


totally understand, Yes/No. I know I am running myself ragged lately, trying to just stay caught up by reading and doing what needs to be done at home, too. Don't want to make this a job for you. But we sure appreciate your input on the book!! Per your link about his book being available on Kindle, I checked it out and it is only $10 for Kindle (was $16 for paperback, I believe). Not sure if I will buy it, and I wonder if some things have been left out of the Kindle version. Hopefully, someone will post a comment about their purchase to know if I should get a copy.


I just downloaded Windows 10. I reserved my copy in June or July and never got it, so I sent Microsoft an email this week. They sent a nice reply that it would be coming soon, and maybe that is why I got my notice that it was ready for download today. It did not automatically download until I said OK.

It only took about an hour, maybe 1 1/4 hrs., and it was up and running. So far, I love it!!!! It seems so much faster :escape:, and looks easy/peasy for hubby to hop back aboard. His computer skills are the bottom of the barrel, so that is saying a lot. Found my music in something called "Music" (would you believe that?:innocent:) on the task bar and my Firefox and Favorites stayed. Personally, I am glad to be rid of all those fancy picture icons on my opening screen and having to switch every day to the desktop view. No more! (It may have been easier for me than for some since my computer isn't too old and started with Windows 8, then upgrade to 8.1.)

It is snowing :snowflake: to beat the band right now. All the ground, roads, and trees/shrubs are covered. I must admit, it does look pretty. Maybe it will perk me up and get me in the holiday mode.

Happy weekend, my super SB !
 
Hi guys. Long time no see! I ran away for awhile but I'm back now. Gonna catch up on the book and your lives. My Rayden is now 16 months old and the boss of the house. He steals our phones and our tv's too. Life is good!
 
I don't read on the main thread anymore because I dislike repetition of the facts of the trial. :gaah: I mainly post anything that is new about the murderer- like her appeals or any new articles, etc. -along with my other stuff :facepalm:

I don't understand the reason that "sources get buried and lost". Won't these things "get lost" in the main thread? Is there a dedicated thread about Lawrence's book? Maybe someone should make one and I would also copy and past about the book there when I post here, otherwise I see no need for me to do that as the info is here on The Sidebar for anyone to read if they care to. I'm not trying to be difficult; I just don't understand the need.

And please don't think you are "intruding on a private party here". :therethere: (There's nothing private here) I'm sorry you feel this way (I hope that no one, including me, has led you to believe that you are not welcomed here). The Sidebar is for anyone on WS to read, post, and enjoy. We're a very friendly bunch and it would nice for more WSers to come and post here. This thread is sort of a "anything- goes" one and is quite refreshing, IMO, and for all/anyone to join in with us and post whatever.

:blowkiss:


Sounds like a good idea for a separate Nurmi book thread. And then another (or shared) for JM. I'd be happy to suggest this to mods.

As for posting here on the sidebar. I think most folks who drop back in don't think to look here for post-trial related content....more of a place to socialize? I know when I've popped in on and off since the trial ended, the convos here seemed personal as in WS buds hanging out, rather than CMJA related , that I saw, anyway.

I think it's great to keep a place open for folks who shared a trial to keep in touch, and seriously, what a great bunch of peeps CMJA trial watchers were and are!

I understand a separate place for that, but don't understand not posting current post-trial news in a main or topical thread & expecting folks who don't frequent the SB to find relevant posts some how.

As I've said, an occupational hazard....I know how much time it takes to read and post for others here. Just want for those who are looking for the info to know where to find it.
 
Trapped with Ms. Arias:

Chapter 2: The Ultimate Job of a Capital Defense Attorney

Chapter 3: The Defense Team

Chapter 4: Here is to Wishing That I Never Got the File

End of Section 1
----

Here is a "chunk" from chapter 2 (because Lawrence said it better than I could)

Chapter 2

The Ultimate Job of a Capital Defense lawyer


"Killing a human being is a horrible act. Murder is a horrible crime. Most of us who work as defense Councel for captital defendants do so because we believe that the killing of a human being is just as wrong when it is done by a citizen than when it is done by the government who job it is to serve and protect all the citizens...

it's not a fun place to be...

We put up with clients who are oftentimes ungrateful or down right angry about the work we do on their behalf. Based on some of the hate mail..received over the course of the Arias trial, the public seems to be under the impression that someone who serves as a lawyer for a capital defendants supports what the client did....

we appear to be advocating for our clients when we are really advocating for the constitutional rights of our clients.... 'we don't defend the crime, only the constitution and what the client may have done is relatively insignificant to the battle at hand'
...

A capital defense lawyer wins when their client receives a life sentence." (pgs. 16-17)

they also lay down the "foundation" for appeals

not apologizing for his defense of the murderer

does have sympathy for Alexander family, but could not do his job if he let that get in way of defending client

"..if anyone.. thinks that I somehow support what Ms Arias did on June 4, 2008, they are wrong. I did my job...I saved my client"s life. You might not be happy about it because you wanted her to be executed and Ms. Arias may not be happy about receiving a life sentence, but I did my job and if I do say so myself, I did it quite well." (pg 19)
-----------------------------

Chapter 3

The Defense Team


lead defense never works alone and could not do so- Az law requires 2 defense lawyers

lead counsel must have 5 years of experience- tried numerous felony cases- must have served as a second chair to a lead counsel in capital case that actually went to trial
must have taken legal education courses related to DP each year

must make sure client is informed- "a monumental task when Ms Arias is your client"

talks about relationship of lead and 2nd chair- "bigger deal when you have a client who is looking to manipulate his or her defense team"

Mitigation Specialist- presents mental health issue- has Masters degree in one of the social science -interviews family members, puts school/medical records together

also has an Investigator

had a great team before murderers case- "at a certain point I lost that team and things happened"
-----------------------------------------------

Chapter 4

Here is to Wishing I Never Got the File


L wishes that the murderer "never killed Travis Alexander "

talks about "lessons learned theme"

-the Tweets/social media posts that celebrate that murderer is spending rest of life in prison and is miserable there - upsetting to him, but not because he believes she doesn't deserve to be there- she made choices - is self-imposed- "I offer her no sympathies in that regard"

- doesn't like the celebration her sentence - why celebrate the "entire situation...tragedy and that the world would be a better place if the tragic events of June 4, 2008, never took place"

- talks about mental health and signs of mental heath- urges people to take note of the signs and take actions

- talks about the murderer "many signs of mental illness that went ignored.. she abused animals at a young age (reports that came from her family members)...other family members..said that she would often act strangely and keeps to herself around this same time period"..."something is not right"- nothing done to see if something was wrong with the murderer when she was child

- condemns her parents for ignoring warning signs

- talks about murderer growing weed at 14 yrs old and someone holding knife to her throat at 12 yrs old- drops out of school, leaving home at 17 to live with Bobby- "If Ms. Arias is being truthful, her then boyfriend Bobby abused her physically. There is some evidence...brother confronted Bobby and Bobby responded by waving a sword at him."

- never seeks counseling "If Ms Arias' claims of being an abuse victim were true, one might consider the possibility that some counseling would be in order" even if they were not true, would need counseling

- talks about Matt seeking out her mother when she was 27 that he was concerned for the murderer- thought she was bi-polar- ignored- "went in one ear and out the other"

"Perhaps, I am right and she was a victim of child abuse." (as to why the Arias family ignored the signs and didn't take the murderer to get professional help) "Perhaps she had a personality disorder. whatever the problem....it could have been addressed years ago through medication or counseling. Perhaps if it had, Mr Alexander would still be alive and Ms. Aria would be off somewhere taking pictures." (pg 28)

-doesn't really blame her parents- many people ignore signs of mental illness

- lessons learned: you don't ignore signs of mental illness in children "Do something"

-talks about the murderer having job, pays bills, "functioning in society but when her former boyfriend Darryl talked to her about getting some psychological help, she chose not to do anyhting. When another boyfriend expressed simialr concerns, she also chose to do nothing ... based on her journel wrirings, she knew she was depressed and did nothing. Ms. Arias knew there was something wrong with her mentally, yet she did nothing." (pg 29)

- talks about why functionally mental ill and families ignore issues- stigma of mental illness

- talks about women in general- "If a man cannot give you what you want out of a relationship, get out of the relationship... you cannot change him."

- talks about Travis and his "participation" - "should have taken steps...to rid himself of MS. Arias" but not blaming him

- Travis' friends told him to get away from the murderer- he didn't listen- did not take warnings seriously and "invited Ms. Arias into his home to have sex in June of 2008 leads one to believe that he did not take those warnings seriously."

- "To be clear, I am not saying that Mr. Alexander is to blame for his own murder or that he deserved to die in such a brutal fashion or at all for that matter"

-talks about "if someone is driving you so crazy that your response to them is to act out of character in a negative way (as Travis did) or engage in self-destructive ways (as the murderer did), end the relationship."

-evidence stated that the murderer was "driving Mr. Alexander crazy...yet he was still having a sexual relationship with her...should have ended the relationship with her."

-again- not blaming Travis but thinks Travis, because he was "type of person who wanted to help others", would want others who "are reading this.. in unhealthy ralationships to simply walk away...before the unhealthy becomes the tragic...he would want people to learn from this tragedy." (pg 32)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Next:

SECTION 2
My New Case

Chapter 5
The day My Life Changed Forever

Chapter 6
Preparing to Meet Ms. Arias
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BBM

Did Nurmi actually call himself defense Councel?
 
Sounds like a good idea for a separate Nurmi book thread. And then another (or shared) for JM. I'd be happy to suggest this to mods.

As for posting here on the sidebar. I think most folks who drop back in don't think to look here for post-trial related content....more of a place to socialize? I know when I've popped in on and off since the trial ended, the convos here seemed personal as in WS buds hanging out, rather than CMJA related , that I saw, anyway.

I think it's great to keep a place open for folks who shared a trial to keep in touch, and seriously, what a great bunch of peeps CMJA trial watchers were and are!

I understand a separate place for that, but don't understand not posting current post-trial news in a main or topical thread & expecting folks who don't frequent the SB to find relevant posts some how.

As I've said, an occupational hazard....I know how much time it takes to read and post for others here. Just want for those who are looking for the info to know where to find it.

BBM I always assume that the items I post about the murderer now are also being posted by others on the main thread (they can/will find the same info that I do and post them). I post these things here for the convenience of the SB.

I remember posting all the Minute Entries and Case Documents here almost everyday and posting them on the trial thread too (most/some times, I'd see that they were already posted by others, but I was told by Lambchop that that info was suppose to go on the trial thread, so that's why I posted on both threads. In order to have that info on the SB, I had to post on the main thread also. :sheesh:
I couldn't be sure that someone posted these things on the trial thread at all times, so I was forced to post on both threads every day- very frustrating. :gaah:

Aren't people posting excerpts from Lawrence's book on the main thread? I thought they were (along with text messages)????

I'm sorry that I don't think of the others looking for info on the main thread as much as I should- never crossed my mind. :blushing:

We normally don't speak about the murderer unless something new happens with her and that doesn't happen everyday.
 
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[video=youtu;-icCvaFc45w]http://youtu.be/-icCvaFc45w[/video]
 
....
I feel like I'm intruding on a private party here, then, and shouldn't have asked. My bad. Sorry. :(

BBM. That's for me, too. Sorry, SB folks, if I'm offending you, but I'm speaking my truth: I don't even like to visit the Sidebar because it's too exclusive. To me, it feels and acts like a clique. There are many inside jokes and ongoing histories that go way back. Many things that don't make sense to a visitor. It's not an inviting place to be.
 
I checked to see if I made a mistake, but it's his exact words.

I can't believe a defense attorney wouldn't know the difference between council and counsel, and would instead come up with a hybrid word. That makes me laugh!

Apparently there are many such typos in the book? According to some sources, his wife acted as proofreader. Hmmm...
 
BBM I always assume that the items I post about the murderer now are also being posted by others on the main thread (they can/will find the same info that I do and post them). I post these things here for the convenience of the SB.

I remember posting all the Minute Entries and Case Documents here almost everyday and posting them on the trial thread too (most/some times, I'd see that they were already posted by others, but I was told by Lambchop that that info was suppose to go on the trial thread, so that's why I posted on both threads. In order to have that info on the SB, I had to post on the main thread also. :sheesh:
I couldn't be sure that someone posted these things on the trial thread at all times, so I was forced to post on both threads every day- very frustrating. :gaah:

Aren't people posting excerpts from Lawrence's book on the main thread? I thought they were (along with text messages)????

I'm sorry that I don't think of the others looking for info on the main thread as much as I should- never crossed my mind. :blushing:

We normally don't speak about the murderer unless something new happens with her and that doesn't happen everyday.

I think that one of the great things about WS is that you can bounce around from thread to thread. Sometimes you find something that ignites further interest and you decide to stick around...

The recent case of the Florida doctor who was murdered (can't remember her name) was compelling to me, but there were sooo many threads I couldn't keep things straight, so I moved on. Likewise, the Savopoulos murders around here were intriguing to me, but the thread quickly degenerated into a cat fight between posters. Eh, whatever thread feels comfortable is where you should be reading and posting. JMO
 
I can't believe a defense attorney wouldn't know the difference between council and counsel, and would instead come up with a hybrid word. That makes me laugh!

Apparently there are many such typos in the book? According to some sources, his wife acted as proofreader. Hmmm...


It (the book) almost read as though it had been transcribed through a dictation device, but I doubt that is correct since there are so many misspellings. I don't think it was ever edited but I read somewhere that his wife did the editing so who really knows.
 
I can't believe a defense attorney wouldn't know the difference between council and counsel, and would instead come up with a hybrid word. That makes me laugh!

Apparently there are many such typos in the book? According to some sources, his wife acted as proofreader. Hmmm...



I hadn't read this post before I typed my thoughts below, I guess good minds think alike. :happydance:
 
It (the book) almost read as though it had been transcribed through a dictation device, but I doubt that is correct since there are so many misspellings. I don't think it was ever edited but I read somewhere that his wife did the editing so who really knows.

Thank you.

Not having read it, I'm just picking up on the things people post about it. I can't believe a highly educated person would: 1) make so many obvious mistakes, and 2) not have taken the time to have had it thoroughly proofread and edited.

Wondering if he was in such a mad rush to beat JM to the punch that he lost sight of how those many errors diminish the credibility of his writings? I do sense that in his determination to vindicate himself, and due to the many years of courtroom sparring with JM, he lost a bit of his ability to keep things in perspective. JMO
 
BBM I always assume that the items I post about the murderer now are also being posted by others on the main thread (they can/will find the same info that I do and post them). I post these things here for the convenience of the SB.

I remember posting all the Minute Entries and Case Documents here almost everyday and posting them on the trial thread too (most/some times, I'd see that they were already posted by others, but I was told by Lambchop that that info was suppose to go on the trial thread, so that's why I posted on both threads. In order to have that info on the SB, I had to post on the main thread also. :sheesh:
I couldn't be sure that someone posted these things on the trial thread at all times, so I was forced to post on both threads every day- very frustrating. :gaah:

Aren't people posting excerpts from Lawrence's book on the main thread? I thought they were (along with text messages)????

I'm sorry that I don't think of the others looking for info on the main thread as much as I should- never crossed my mind. :blushing:

We normally don't speak about the murderer unless something new happens with her and that doesn't happen everyday.


Others have been posting about Nurmi's book. But everyone reading it plucks out different pieces and has different ideas about what is most important.

Your chapter by chapter quotes and analysis is awesome, and the first thorough whole book report....which is why I don't want it to get lost...:)
 
For sure he is very jealous of Juan, and probably felt if he got his book out first his sales would be higher than if everyone read Juan's first. Now that's the one I can't wait to read. I predict there will be so many BOMBSHELLS. :bombshell: I'm sorry to leave you hanging but I have to run a short errand, hope to see you on later.
 
I can't cut and paste myself or I would. I'm an historian, and always despair when sources get buried and lost.

I've been teading thru what you've posted here about his book, though, and you've said you don't read on the main thread at all? Or have an interest in putting your excerpts there?

I feel like I'm intruding on a private party here, then, and shouldn't have asked. My bad. Sorry. :(


You will never be intruding in here Hope4More, you joined this family when you told of your childhood, and how your mom had a paper route, and she took the 4 of you along in a car with windows that didn't roll up. You shared with us the no money for milk at lunch, and a single box of macaroni and cheese to share between the five of you. IIRC she worked hard and went to school also? You sharing, all of us sharing, is placed in my heart, and you're always in my prayers each day.
 
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