SIDEBAR #6- Arias/Alexander forum

[BetteDavisEyes]

I still haven't watched the foreman juror's interview nor do I plan to. This gentleman was clearly misguided and had no idea what his role should have been. I guess he's never seen 12 Angry Men which demonstrates the dynamics of a competent jury and how they challenge, debate, explain, question one other to find out what each is thinking and to perhaps convince them that their opinion might be flawed. For the foreman to tell his fellow jurors that they MUST accept each other's opinions without going through a legitimate process of reasoning with one another is just plain wrong! Sounds like this guy has a huge ego and wanted the position so that he could do post-verdict interviews. I don't know if other jurors will come forward to speak, but they probably should if the foreman did not truly represent the feelings and opinions of everyone on the panel.

I avoided most coverage of the verdict yesterday but heard more than one commentator suggest that the Judge should have sent the jury back at least one more time before accepting their "no unanimous decision". It sounds to me like there were misunderstandings in the communication between the jury and JSS that led to confusion about the final verdict. :moo:

Have a safe and happy holiday weekend.

 

[Emmi]

What's even sadder to me is not ONE juror challenged him or sent a note to the judge when that failed. Not a single person understood their job as a juror or what the word deliberate meant.

If I were on that jury, I would have had him tossed for refusing to deliberate, he opted instead to disregard the oath he swore to uphold.

What the heck are they teaching in schools these days that people do not know the role of a jury? The meaning of the word deliberate???? How trials work in their own darn state? Ignorant people....annoy me



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Which oath did he disregard? The jury deliberated for about 13 hours.

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

http://domesticviolencestatistics.org/men-the-overlooked-victims-of-domestic-violence/

I know I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but.....or Norma Rae for men....

More money is spent on women’s programs, and more crusades are launched on behalf of women who are victims of domestic violence despite the fact that men are almost equally or in some cases more likely to be victims of both physical and psychological abuse.

Although there has been an increase in the number of fatal domestic violence incidents against women, men are more likely to be victims of attacks with a deadly weapon. According to one study, 63% of males as opposed to 15% of females had a deadly weapon used against them in a fight with an intimate partner.

What is worse than the statistics, however, is the fact that there has been little research in the area of domestic abuse against men because neither the Justice Department nor any other agencies will fund such research. Because they refuse to do the research, people are able to perpetuate such myths as women are only violent when defending themselves, or that men could more easily leave a violent relationship.

I'm in no way saying what or who's abuse is worse/better, but after ALV, someone NEEDS to be called by the state to prove ALV is a one sided advocate and, IMO, convinced/talked the CM into playing/imagining herself as a victim.
They say, if you or someone tells you something long and hard enough, you begin to believe it.

 

[DebinGA]

Kinda looks to me like he never took time to watch 12 Angry Men.

I never realized the job of a jury was to listen to testimony, then start "deliberations" by each stating their position, vote to see if they are 100% in agreement, and if it's not quit and go home.

Mr. Foreman said there was lots of discussion, some heated and emotional. It wouldn't have taken me long to see that MF wouldn't change his mind, no matter what, so why prolong everyone's agony? It could even be the "4 voted for life" blurb came from MF and isn't true. I find it hard to believe MF's claim that all the "lifers" felt TA had abused JA, unless their definition of "abused" was like ALV's describing TA not emptying his email cache as "abuse".

 

[Linda7NJ]

I still haven't watched the foreman juror's interview nor do I plan to. This gentleman was clearly misguided and had no idea what his role should have been. I guess he's never seen 12 Angry Men which demonstrates the dynamics of a competent jury and how they challenge, debate, explain, question one other to find out what each is thinking and to perhaps convince them that their opinion might be flawed. For the foreman to tell his fellow jurors that they MUST accept each other's opinions without going through a legitimate process of reasoning with one another is just plain wrong! Sounds like this guy has a huge ego and wanted the position so that he could do post-verdict interviews. I don't know if other jurors will come forward to speak, but they probably should if the foreman did not truly represent the feelings and opinions of everyone on the panel.

I avoided most coverage of the verdict yesterday but heard more than one commentator suggest that the Judge should have sent the jury back at least one more time before accepting their "no unanimous decision". It sounds to me like there were misunderstandings in the communication between the jury and JSS that led to confusion about the final verdict. :moo:

Have a safe and happy holiday weekend.

While I am furious with him... I am equally furious at the other 11 sheep!

I am thankful for the M1 w/ aggravatior but I'm still furious not a single one understood their job


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[gauntlet]

Anyone else spent time thinking about what they would have said in the jury room to try and encourage a) conversation b) to get them to see past the manipulation. I think I could have done it even not knowing what we do.

ETA - this wasn't intended to be a serious post btw. *returns back to reality*

 

[Tenaciousdae]

In nurmi's last closing...(I was only listening, and think this was aggravation phase) he showed a picture and says does miss arias this look like she's having a good time... I'm assuming this was her infamous party trick pose to say it nicely... anyway I think this exhibit was used ad nauseam, but possibly to the DT benefit... Just my:twocents: for the day.:seeya:

 

[rose222]

Posting this again for those who may have missed it. At least this juror makes more sense.

An alternate juror told The Arizona Republic that she would have gone with the majority on the death penalty. Carol Gosselink of Scottsdale said Arias showed a lack of remorse. Arias' claims about being emotionally abused also didn't ring true.

"I don't doubt she was in a situation where she shouldn't have put up with some of that stuff. But she had a choice," Gosselink said. "She's a pretty girl. Why did she continue in a relationship that caused that much negativity for her?"

Gosselink said jurors and the three alternates agreed not to disclose which of the four were against sentencing Arias to death. She said the gender of the jurors "didn't make a difference" in how they voted. But she was disappointed that they couldn't come to an agreement.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Which oath did he disregard? The jury deliberated for about 13 hours.

They held hands and shared feelings... According to him. Maybe sang Kumbaya a few times.

His sole job was to reach a verdict, not wimp out and decide he didn't want to because he believed the judge should do HIS job. If he wasn't up to doing his job he could have easily said so, he would have been replaced. That's what alternates or for. The other 11 sheep could have easily had him replaced.


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[Linda7NJ]

Anyone else spent time thinking about what they would have said in the jury room to try and encourage a) conversation b) to get them to see past the manipulation. I think I could have done it even not knowing what we do.

Ditto


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[RadarLuv]

Hello are you there right now! I'll be there in a second. please make me a Bloody Mary

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Trying to upload software now to see if it helps. I am on my old macbook. Spilled cap'n crunch on my pro

 

[Hope4More]

I understood your post, I was just saying he had no business even wondering about what would happen if they hung. His sole job as a juror and foreman was to REACH a VERDICT!

I'm not yelling at you.... I'm yelling at those 12 jurors!
Lol like they can hear me...


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I agree his responsibility was to reach a verdict, but don't understand why you think the jury shouldn't have been told the consquences of being hung. May I ask what your thinking is on that?

 

[gauntlet]

Just FYI - there's a status conference on June 20

6/20/2013 8:30 Status Conference
7/18/2013 10:00 Trial

http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/docket/CriminalCourtCases/caseInfo.asp

 

[ShadyLady]

Also, I am completely convinced Bill Z would have gone for manslaughter had he been able to get his way. Seems he put all the mitigating fault on Travis.

 

[seguek9]

which is where, BTW? i'd love to check it out but it sounds like a secret place maybe not everyone can go??

Not secret at all! Just go to
http://www.serenity-irc.net/java/java.php

Wait while it loads....type in WS nickname, WS password and room is #websleuths then click connect or enter. It can take a minute to load sometime though...and it helps if your Java is up to date :seeya:

 

[Pink Panther]

I'm curious as to why DB didn't want his face filmed while he was testifying and then went on tv and did an interview?

Very bizarre.

moo

 

[DebinGA]

Glad I went out of town yesterday and couldn't participate in the discussion. I am truly thankful this jury at least found her guilty of 1st degree murder. After listening to the foreman I'm surprised we got that. I don't want to see Arias get the limelight for another month. I hope the family decides to put lwop on the table. Get the spotlight off this killer. She is thriving on all the attention. Off to enjoy the day in Memphis.

I hope it's not the family's decision to make. I don't think JA should be "offered" a deal. Her days of controlling her life should be over. The MC DA should let JSS sentence JA to a long, miserable LWOP asap, preferably next week imo.

 

[Becky Sharp]

Can someone please post a YouTube of Jane Siberry and K D Lang's "Calling All Angels"? (Preferably not the live version.) I don't know how to do it. TIA. (Now I'll go and sit on the stool in the corner.)

 

[kscornfed]

They held hands and shared feelings... According to him. Maybe sang Kumbaya a few times.

His sole job was to reach a verdict, not wimp out and decide he didn't want to because he believed the judge should do HIS job. If he wasn't up to doing his job he could have easily said so, he would have been replaced. That's what alternates or for. The other 11 sheep could have easily had him replaced.


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i wonder why, when he was in voir dire and saw that charles manson or jeffrey dahmer wasn't sitting there, he didn't say he couldn't consider the DP for her. i wonder why he didn't say 'i don't think average americans should have to make such a choice.'

he never would have been there. he wasn't honest, IMO.

 

[Sleuth5]

Here ya go, ATL.

[video=youtube;BhpbQbqwJk0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhpbQbqwJk0[/video]