Sidebar Discussion #11

[AZlawyer]

Actually I can understand CA listening at the door the next morning to hear if they were up or if Caylee was moving around before she went to work, in the hopes of seeing Caylee before she left - especially if they had had a big argument. I understand neighbours confirmed there had been a screaming row the night of the 15th, but they were reporting it a month later or more - and who knows the accuracy of that. Other than that, I believe we only have FCA's word for it.

CA is known to say some really silly things as "the result" of her actions...but I believe she could have listened at the door - but not that she heard them "breathing" unless FCA was known to snore of course....

I don't think the neighbors confirmed it at all. We had a thread in which we went through the neighbors' statements in great detail, and they were pretty vague about the date(s) IIRC.

I don't believe Casey ever reported the fight either. Not that I would believe her.

 

[AZlawyer]

If I remember correctly. She was said to have left the house around 10pm on the 15th. So that would leave about an 1 1/2 hours for the murder. An hour between 1:54 and 3:08. And as you say free time for about 3 hours. It surely can't take too much time to murder a 2 1/2 year old child in a rage.

Sorry guys I just can't help it. I know I'm a pain.

BBM - :waitasec: I don't remember that. I thought she got home at 8 or 8:30 that night? Pool, bath, blah blah...

Based on the cell phone pings, she was at or near the house from about 7:30 on Sunday June 15 (Father's Day) until about 4:15 pm on Monday June 16.

 

[krkrjx]

As far as Caylee - we do know she was with Cindy until the evening of the 15th because that's the day they went to see Grandpa and we have the "you are my sunshine video and some other pictures. If you remember, when FCA came home, Caylee and Cindy were in the pool. She was going to join them but Cindy said it was getting too cool for Caylee and handed her off to FCA to bathe and put in her pajamas.

So I think Cindy would have been very aware of where Caylee was that evening. Then we have the texts between Tony and FCa starting late evening and early morning...so I think we are safe in assuming Caylee survived that evening. We know she was gone by the next evenng when FCA went to watch videos with Tony...

I believe the fight LA was talking about between CA and KC was the evening it came home, when Caylee was at least one month gone...

There could have been a fight in mid-June as well, about KC stealing from her g'parents. But the fight where CA allegedly choked KC could have been in mid-July. Possibly there was a fight both dates in question, because I think those two fought more than the average.

I think a fight in mid-June could have caused KC to leave the home with Caylee. I actually believe that is what happened, and that KC took her rage toward CA out on Caylee. Then there could have been another knock-down drag-out on the night KC returned home without Caylee. LA could have been present and witnessed that even if he didn't live there...less likely for him to have been present in mid-June (before anything was "wrong").

Just sayin' I do believe LA witnessed a fight...just not sure which one.

 

[shotzy]

Shotzy I'm just saying Casey Casey said it, doesn't mean it's true. If the door was opened why would Cindy be listening outside the door? She'd be looking in!

Trust me AZlawyer, I don't believe a word that comes out of fca's mouth! Oops, I meant this post for Dcstew

 

[logicalgirl]

I believe the fight LA was talking about between CA and KC was the evening it came home, when Caylee was at least one month gone...

There could have been a fight in mid-June as well, about KC stealing from her g'parents. But the fight where CA allegedly choked KC could have been in mid-July. Possibly there was a fight both dates in question, because I think those two fought more than the average.

I think a fight in mid-June could have caused KC to leave the home with Caylee. I actually believe that is what happened, and that KC took her rage toward CA out on Caylee. Then there could have been another knock-down drag-out on the night KC returned home without Caylee. LA could have been present and witnessed that even if he didn't live there...less likely for him to have been present in mid-June (before anything was "wrong").

Just sayin' I do believe LA witnessed a fight...just not sure which one.

What is your memory of when LA told Jesse this? I vaguely remember but can't recall exactly without looking it up.

BBM: see AZLawyers post above about cell phone pings...but for whatever the reason, yes, I think it may very well have been rage that caused her to murder Caylee, although I think she could also have done it without being angry - just as cold as can be. You and I may have to be in a rage to hurt someone (if that was even possible) but I don't believe FCA had the same emotional range you and I have.

 

[logicalgirl]

Shotzy I'm just saying Casey Casey said it, doesn't mean it's true. If the door was opened why would Cindy be listening outside the door? She'd be looking in!

Well FCA said it was unlocked, not open. Besides we know that is rubbish because George often helped Caylee with her breakfast etc before FCA got out of bed...

 

[peedoffinny]

"The sheriff's office says it has no idea how many times investigators have searched for Caylee over the last two and a half months or how much it's costing taxpayers. The helicopter alone costs $500 an hour every time it goes up. "

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/cadaver-dogs-used-to-search-wooded-areas-for-cayle/nFCJ6/

Thanks for that link, I like this part of the story:

Attorney John Morgan who is representing Zenaida Gonzalez, a woman who shares the name of the so-called nanny Casey claimed had her daughter said he is certain that Casey's team is trying to profit from the case. Morgan appeared on CNN's Nancy Grace Wednesday night.

"I know for a fact that magazines have been approached by members of her team to receive monies," said Attorney John Morgan

 

[lisalei321]

Just did my daily ritual over at Amazon....

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[AZlawyer]

I don't think the neighbors confirmed it at all. We had a thread in which we went through the neighbors' statements in great detail, and they were pretty vague about the date(s) IIRC.

I don't believe Casey ever reported the fight either. Not that I would believe her.

Now that I think about it, I believe the only source for a fight specifically on the night of June 15 was Richard (Jesse's father) saying that Jesse said that Lee said that Cindy said that she had literally put her hands around Casey's throat in a fight that night.

So triple hearsay.

On the other hand, I could see Cindy blurting this out to Lee in an "its-all-my-fault" moment of self-pity, but hiding it from the police because it was none of their business (and would just make them think Casey killed Caylee.)

 

[wonders]

Oh I'm not saying the fight didn't happen - I just question everything FCA says. She would have had to tell LA who told Jesse because LA wasn't living at home at the time.

If there was a fight - all the more reason for Cindy not to open the door - she had to get to work not continue the row with FCA...IMO

Yes, that's what I think happened. I think she whinned to her brother about it.
I also don't think she came home at all until CA at least was gone to work. However I am unable to account for GA. Could have he still been asleep since CA went to work early on Mondays? Could he have been so disgusted with CFCA as I think he usually was that he just didn't pay attention to her at all. Maybe he saw her come in with Caylee and CFCA said she was sleeping and GA couldn't see her cuz CFCA had a blanket around her.

The thing is they all lie. And I don't believe one thing about GA saying good bye to them as they supposedly left on the 16th and he remembers exactly what Caylee was wearing? No.
I just asked hubby if he remembered what our granddaughter was wearing yesterday and at first he said no, then said she was wearing tight pants and something else (LOL), I asked if the pants were long or short, he said long. Nope. Had purple shorts on that went to her knees.

I sure hope you guys don't get mad at me for saying what I think happened because I don't want to start anything at all. I've just held all this stuff inside all this time except for saying a couple of times that I thought Caylee was murdered by CFCAS the night of the 15th early morning of the 16th.

 

[wonders]

BBM - :waitasec: I don't remember that. I thought she got home at 8 or 8:30 that night? Pool, bath, blah blah...

Oh yeah. She very well could have come home at that time from where ever she had spent the day. Plenty of time to bathe Caylee and have a fight with CA. That could explain why she said they hadn't found her clothes yet (PJ's) and the no shoes when Caylee was found.

 

[wonders]

Drowning story aside, did GA testify that he saw Caylee that morning?

I believe so. I think he said he gave her breakfast.

 

[logicalgirl]

Yes, that's what I think happened. I think she whinned to her brother about it.
I also don't think she came home at all until CA at least was gone to work. However I am unable to account for GA. Could have he still been asleep since CA went to work early on Mondays? Could he have been so disgusted with CFCA as I think he usually was that he just didn't pay attention to her at all. Maybe he saw her come in with Caylee and CFCA said she was sleeping and GA couldn't see her cuz CFCA had a blanket around her.

The thing is they all lie. And I don't believe one thing about GA saying good bye to them as they supposedly left on the 16th and he remembers exactly what Caylee was wearing? No.
I just asked hubby if he remembered what our granddaughter was wearing yesterday and at first he said no, then said she was wearing tight pants and something else (LOL), I asked if the pants were long or short, he said long. Nope. Had purple shorts on that went to her knees.

I sure hope you guys don't get mad at me for saying what I think happened because I don't want to start anything at all. I've just held all this stuff inside all this time except for saying a couple of times that I thought Caylee was murdered by CFCAS the night of the 15th early morning of the 16th.

Nothing wrong with posting it if that's what you are thinking - but George, who was the first to suspect FCA would have said he didn't see Caylee at all on the morning of the 16th don't you think?

Also, did you folow along with the cell phone pings and activity that JWG and AZLawyer recently have been posting? Since it said she was close to or at home from 7:30pm to 4:00pm the following day - if she wasn't at home, where do you suspect she actually was? When she killed Caylee I mean? We know the part about the pool and the bath - so are you saying you think she grabbed Caylee and went out 10ish and was parked close by? It would have to be somewhere where George wouldn't see her when he came home at 11ish ...... and you don't think she came home until after 2 that day? Not sure I can follow that...:waitasec:

 

[wonders]

Based on the cell phone pings, she was at or near the house from about 7:30 on Sunday June 15 (Father's Day) until about 4:15 pm on Monday June 16.

Yes. I think she could have been on Suburban Drive where she eventually dumped Caylee.

 

[wonders]

I believe the fight LA was talking about between CA and KC was the evening it came home, when Caylee was at least one month gone...There could have been a fight in mid-June as well, about KC stealing from her g'parents. But the fight where CA allegedly choked KC could have been in mid-July. Possibly there was a fight both dates in question, because I think those two fought more than the average.

I think a fight in mid-June could have caused KC to leave the home with Caylee. I actually believe that is what happened, and that KC took her rage toward CA out on Caylee. Then there could have been another knock-down drag-out on the night KC returned home without Caylee. LA could have been present and witnessed that even if he didn't live there...less likely for him to have been present in mid-June (before anything was "wrong").

Just sayin' I do believe LA witnessed a fight...just not sure which one.

BBM:
No. It was the 15th of June. It was Fathers day and that's the day CA found out about CFCA stealing the money from her grandfather's healthcare account. It was also the fight were CA put her up against the wall by her neck.

 

[krkrjx]

What is your memory of when LA told Jesse this? I vaguely remember but can't recall exactly without looking it up.

BBM: see AZLawyers post above about cell phone pings...but for whatever the reason, yes, I think it may very well have been rage that caused her to murder Caylee, although I think she could also have done it without being angry - just as cold as can be. You and I may have to be in a rage to hurt someone (if that was even possible) but I don't believe FCA had the same emotional range you and I have.

BBM: Do you recall that text or IM info AZ posted not too long ago where KC is talking to some guy and he is asking if she will invite him over once she gets her house? He jokingly hinted at something more than just a casual visit and she said nooooo Casey really likes this BF of hers.

When I read that exchange it was the first time in all of this that I thought she might have killed Caylee not just to stick it to Cindy...but for her own selfish "bella vita" because she finally had a BF she really liked. Kids have been killed for that reason before. Susan Smith comes to mind. And Diane Downs.

So I agree that KC might have killed Caylee without rage, but rather because she was in the way of KC's desired lifestyle.

 

[Dcstew]

Pam Plesea said that Shirley told her how Lee was there, Cindy confronted Casey on June 15 and they ended up in an altercation and Cindy choked Casey, Lee pulled them apart, and Cindy called Shirley to tell her that Casey would never steal again and that she had choked her. Pam said Cindy called Shirley the morning of the 16th and told her that Casey had taken Caylee and the car before anyone woke up and was gone.

I know Casey was on the computer that morning though. :banghead:

 

[krkrjx]

Pam Plesea said that Shirley told her how Lee was there, Cindy confronted Casey on June 15 and they ended up in an altercation and Cindy choked Casey, Lee pulled them apart, and Cindy called Shirley to tell her that Casey would never steal again and that she had choked her. Pam said Cindy called Shirley the morning of the 16th and told her that Casey had taken Caylee and the car before anyone woke up and was gone.

I know Casey was on the computer that morning though. :banghead:

Pam P? I do not remember who she is. Is she RP's ex-wife?

If so...I might have to consider the source, kwim?

 

[wonders]

Now that I think about it, I believe the only source for a fight specifically on the night of June 15 was Richard (Jesse's father) saying that Jesse said that Lee said that Cindy said that she had literally put her hands around Casey's throat in a fight that night.

So triple hearsay.

On the other hand, I could see Cindy blurting this out to Lee in an "its-all-my-fault" moment of self-pity, but hiding it from the police because it was none of their business (and would just make them think Casey killed Caylee.)[/QUOTE]

Yes, yes. If no one mentions the fight at all it could be swept under the carpet and no one needs to know the real story.

Nanny kidnapping.
Leaving a 2 1/2 year old on the steps of the nanny's apt. building between the hours of 9am to 1pm (cuz that's what all good mothers do).
Then settling on Caylee killed herself by opening a sliding glass door (that no one thought to child proof), then climbing the ladder that CA left up at the pool or not.

Yeah, it makes me sick. All of it.

 

[AZlawyer]

Pam Plesea said that Shirley told her how Lee was there, Cindy confronted Casey on June 15 and they ended up in an altercation and Cindy choked Casey, Lee pulled them apart, and Cindy called Shirley to tell her that Casey would never steal again and that she had choked her. Pam said Cindy called Shirley the morning of the 16th and told her that Casey had taken Caylee and the car before anyone woke up and was gone.

I know Casey was on the computer that morning though. :banghead:

Where did Pam say this? FYI there is no phone call on the 15th 16th (or the 17th or 18th) from Cindy to Shirley or vice versa on either the house phone or Cindy's cell.