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George used to be a cop. George knew the Le thought FCA had killed Caylee. He knew cops had a way of pressuring people to talk. He wanted her to get a lawyer. He didn't want her to say anything that could be "misconstrued" or misunderstood until she has legal representation. IMO.

Riiight.. makes more sense for FCA to assure her parents that she hasn't incriminated herself.Thanks for clarifying.
 
I don't mind rehashing - in fact I like it because I do seem some things that are assumptions taken as fact that we know actually aren't. The two canines are an example. The transcripts say the first canine hit twice, the second didn't hit at all.

So my thoughts are those are early days. The LE were taking FCA to Universal to her office - right? They had checked and knew for sure she didn't work there, but CA and GA weren't able to get that information - such as getting confidential information from Security, like the LE were. So I dont' think they knew for sure.

GA wanted them to have a look at the car - but he knew you don't arrest someone because their car smells. While GA might have suspected FCA had knowledge of or had "caused" the smell in the car - he couldn't be sure of that. But he sure wanted the LE to have a look at it.

When FCA said that to CA and GA, she had actually been arrested for child neglect and was in jail. A whole different set of circumstances.
 
I don't mind rehashing - in fact I like it because I do seem some things that are assumptions taken as fact that we know actually aren't. The two canines are an example. The transcripts say the first canine hit twice, the second didn't hit at all.

So my thoughts are those are early days. The LE were taking FCA to Universal to her office - right? They had checked and knew for sure she didn't work there, but CA and GA weren't able to get that information - such as getting confidential information from Security, like the LE were. So I dont' think they knew for sure.

GA wanted them to have a look at the car - but he knew you don't arrest someone because their car smells. While GA might have suspected FCA had knowledge of or had "caused" the smell in the car - he couldn't be sure of that. But he sure wanted the LE to have a look at it.

When FCA said that to CA and GA, she had actually been arrested for child neglect and was in jail. A whole different set of circumstances.

I deleted my earlier post to you...sorry about that....

My take, as a former LE, I would exect that he clearly knew that this was a bad situation, and that his daughter was in deep water.

I don't believe now that CA / GA thought she worked at Universal.

CA: No money no future (from her myspace post to OCA) those are not words from someone who thinks their daughter is a busy event planner for a major company.

my head hurts when I think about all this. Its just so much...still.
 
Do you or does anyone else have a link for any documentation fabout the cadaver dogs rom the trial other than what I found:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/06/07/florida.casey.anthony.trial/index.html

That shows some information more definite than my memory and the information out there about the dog's hit "by the pool"? The second cadaver canine did not hit on anything in the backyard.

I remember it being inconclusive, except for the trunk of the car, and I can't find anything else to say the back yard hits were confirmed twice. Apparently the SE or CSI's took scapings but those must have been negative for decomp or we would have transcripts on that also. :waitasec:

So to take us back a few years - link please?

The testimony of both dog handlers, Jason Forgey (Gerus) and Kristin Brewer (Bones) is on this site in Witness transcriptions, taken verbatim from their testimony. I have read them both and while I don't remember them word for word I do remember that Gerus went around the pool searching and gave a trained alert by the playhouse area.
When they brought Bones out to confirm those findings, he went straight to the pool area, nose down, showed interest in that area and the porch, then went to the same playhouse area and gave a trained alert.
The next day Bones was brought back, but if you remember LE had by then dug up the paving and the playhouse area and he did not alert. His handler gave no opinion as to why that was..
 
I don't mind rehashing - in fact I like it because I do seem some things that are assumptions taken as fact that we know actually aren't. The two canines are an example. The transcripts say the first canine hit twice, the second didn't hit at all.

So my thoughts are those are early days. The LE were taking FCA to Universal to her office - right? They had checked and knew for sure she didn't work there, but CA and GA weren't able to get that information - such as getting confidential information from Security, like the LE were. So I dont' think they knew for sure.

GA wanted them to have a look at the car - but he knew you don't arrest someone because their car smells. While GA might have suspected FCA had knowledge of or had "caused" the smell in the car - he couldn't be sure of that. But he sure wanted the LE to have a look at it.

When FCA said that to CA and GA, she had actually been arrested for child neglect and was in jail. A whole different set of circumstances.


I would not rely on CNN reports for accuracy if I were you...

Here are the dog handlers testimony regarding the cadaver dog searches-
transcribed by our members verbatim during the trial.

Jason Forgey -post #17 covers the search by Gerus.
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139362"]Jason Forgey testimony (OCSO dog handler of Gerus and Bones) - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Kristin Brewer -post #5 covers the search by BOnes
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139512"]Kristen Brewer testimony (OCSD cadaver dog handler) - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
The testimony of both dog handlers, Jason Forgey (Gerus) and Kristin Brewer (Bones) is on this site in Witness transcriptions, taken verbatim from their testimony. I have read them both and while I don't remember them word for word I do remember that Gerus went around the pool searching and gave a trained alert by the playhouse area.
When they brought Bones out to confirm those findings, he went straight to the pool area, nose down, showed interest in that area and the porch, then went to the same playhouse area and gave a trained alert.
The next day Gerus was brought back, but if you remember LE had by then dug up the paving and the playhouse area and he did not alert. His handler gave no opinion as to why that was..

IIRC, he said it could be because the scent was on the surface and that surface was disturbed from the day before... (said in redirect with LDB)
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6632143&postcount=19"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6632143&postcount=19[/ame]
Regarding his second trip to the A's, the reason there was no alert he believes is because whatever the dog was hitting on the day before was on the surface. Then, once it was scraped, it was disturbed and nothing was found.
 
IIRC, he said it could be because the scent was on the surface and that surface was disturbed from the day before... (said in redirect with LDB)
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6632143&postcount=19

Thanks. I was looking at Bones' handler, K Brewer's comments about no second day alerts, but I thought I had read that from Forgey somewhere but could not find it when I just went through it..

What I was thinking of was post #20 where he answers Baez..
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139362"]Jason Forgey testimony (OCSO dog handler of Gerus and Bones) - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
I can't get past the fact that two cadaver dogs hit on the pool area.
To me, that was solid proof she was deceased, when she came out of that pool.
They are trained not to hit on anything other than a cadaver odor..

Sorry if this has been mentioned, but I have always believed that Caylee was placed in the trunk the afternoon of 6/16 and remained there until 6/18 at which time FCA returned home, backed into the driveway, took Caylee out of the trunk and was planning on burying her in the back yard, so she laid her body down by the pool, then went to borrow the shovel. After she figured out that burying her was just too much work, back into the trunk she went, therefore the cadaver dogs picked up on her scent by the pool. I have to wonder after her failed attempt at burying her in the back yard, if she was planning on leaving her in the trunk until the smell forced her to dump her in the woods.
 
I go into Ocean Woods on a daily basis. This afternoon I will take a few pictures and post them tomorrow. I haven't seen any new mysterious residents there, and as far as I know, vacancies in there are few and far between.

This guy asked the Security guard...

OOPS- the link I posted is not allowed. This resident claims he asked the Security guard and he confirmed that Casey is living there, and says George offered him money to watch her residence. She goes for walks with dog, wearing different wigs each night!
Enquiring minds want to know...
 
If I remember correctly, LE was of the opinion that Caylee was in the trunk from the 16th to around the 23rd or 24th. She drove around with her not knowing what to do with her body for a week.

So macabre, so evil.

I think they drew those conclusions from the bug/larvae evidence in the car.

How did she get away with this? I'll never understand.
 
I mean no disrespect at all Gnatcatcher, but I hear this question often - where were her shoes?:what:

If you were a mother who was about to kill your child - would you make sure she had her shoes on? Why does anyone think she was wearing shoes or should have been wearing shoes. We pretty much agree Caylee was killed in the Anthony home or property, right?

So Caylee was running around barefoot in the house, or she was having a nap and had just gotten up - FCA decided to kill her - why would she bother with shoes?

I think many people still have that mental image of George waiving them off in the car. But youre right about the shoes. And the lack of them makes it less of a stretch to imagine that Caylee was wearing only her diaper when she died.

If the BTSP T shirt and the shorts were kept in the car......i.e. a left over from the sleepovers at Riccardo's, I could totally see Casey grabbing for them to mop up the first signs of leaking fluids. :what: I dont think the laundry bag was used on the 16th. I think its plausible the shorts and T shirt were tossed in the laundry bag the same day Caylee was. Just another theory.
 
Sorry if this has been mentioned, but I have always believed that Caylee was placed in the trunk the afternoon of 6/16 and remained there until 6/18 at which time FCA returned home, backed into the driveway, took Caylee out of the trunk and was planning on burying her in the back yard, so she laid her body down by the pool, then went to borrow the shovel. After she figured out that burying her was just too much work, back into the trunk she went, therefore the cadaver dogs picked up on her scent by the pool. I have to wonder after her failed attempt at burying her in the back yard, if she was planning on leaving her in the trunk until the smell forced her to dump her in the woods.

I thoroughly agree and have always thought the same... This is the pdf with the information about the borrowed shovel, the indentation in the dirt behind the pool, the soil found in the trunk of Casey's vehicle and the information about the cadaver dogs...

http://blogs.discovery.com/files/18530237.pdf

I found the information in this study interesting...
But a study by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children shows that fathers are far more violent. And mothers frequently dispose of the corpses in what researchers call a "womblike" fashion. Bodies are swaddled, submerged in water, or wrapped in plastic. Moreover, the NCMEC study showed that while the victims of maternal killings are almost always found either in or close to the home, fathers will, on average, dispose of the bodies hundreds of miles away. All these behaviors suggest that women associate these murders with themselves, their homes, and their bodies.

http://www.slate.com/id/2063086/

ETA: Then we have this statement:

Two conversations between Casey Anthony and her brother Lee were released on Monday but revealed few clues other than Casey Anthony's expressing her "gut feeling" that Caylee is OK and "close to home."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=5473959&page=1
 
I will never ever get over what KC did. I'll never ever get over the prosecution doing their best for a jury that didn't care. I'll never ever get over how hard everyone worked to get some sort of justice for Caylee only to hear 'Not guilty' on all accounts on that miserable verdict day.

No amount of theorising, analysing and journaling is helping heal this hurt. It is so raw and so painful still. It seems a bit overly dramatic to say this but I think I'll look back at this verdict when I'm 95 years old and say "That is one of the hardest things I've had to digest in all my life".
 
I mean no disrespect at all Gnatcatcher, but I hear this question often - where were her shoes?:what:

If you were a mother who was about to kill your child - would you make sure she had her shoes on? Why does anyone think she was wearing shoes or should have been wearing shoes. We pretty much agree Caylee was killed in the Anthony home or property, right?

So Caylee was running around barefoot in the house, or she was having a nap and had just gotten up - FCA decided to kill her - why would she bother with shoes?

I don't agree I think to quote George's statement
his daughter "lives on the edge," and "takes things as far as she can take them." Just like that day she led police around Universal...the events of June 16th were exactly the living on the edge type situation. Casey was left alone with Caylee after GA took care of her all morning before going to work. She was faced with the only person who she could pass her off for the night with was Cindy (and she owes her, right?) so it was either suffocation or Cindy. I think all she took with her was her shoeless kid, her lingerie bag and duct tape and took off in the car and headed toward Gentiva. The thing that most makes me think she did it in the car was the doll. It was still in there when recovered and Caylee took her everywhere. She was probably holding it as Casey grabbed her.
 
I mean no disrespect at all Gnatcatcher, but I hear this question often - where were her shoes?:what:

If you were a mother who was about to kill your child - would you make sure she had her shoes on? Why does anyone think she was wearing shoes or should have been wearing shoes. We pretty much agree Caylee was killed in the Anthony home or property, right?

So Caylee was running around barefoot in the house, or she was having a nap and had just gotten up - FCA decided to kill her - why would she bother with shoes?

Add to that,
CA is such a neat freak I doubt she let anyone wear shoes in that house.
This most definatley points to Caylee being killed at her home.
Question.... if they ever find the clothes that Caylee was wearing that KC said no one has found yet - could they retry KC if there is strong evidence that she did this? And if they could can this other evidence of the fool proof suffocation be brought into a new trial?
I know I am dreaming here, but you just never know what else may turn up.
 
There is no security guard per se. There is a security code operated gate, with a guard house, but it is always empty.

I go into Ocean Woods twice a day; funny some one claims she is walking a dog. I am a dog walker, and I have a client that lives in Ocean Woods, and I walk their dogs twice a day. I have had this client for almost two years, and I know most the residents (at least those who also walk their dogs) and I haven't noticed anyone new or different. If she is there, and wearing a different disguise every night, that would cause her to stand out. Ocean Woods, for the most part, is a close knit community, and everyone knows everyone else. For the first few months I was constantly challenged by residents who wanted to know who I was, and did I live there, and have permission tobe walking through. Now they know me.



This guy asked the Security guard...

OOPS- the link I posted is not allowed. This resident claims he asked the Security guard and he confirmed that Casey is living there, and says George offered him money to watch her residence. She goes for walks with dog, wearing different wigs each night!
Enquiring minds want to know...
 
If she does live there, I am sure she is not wearing a sandwich board and ringing a bell every time she comes and goes. She is the most hated person in America. If she was staying there, I highly doubt anyone figure it out right away.
 
I think many people still have that mental image of George waiving them off in the car. But youre right about the shoes. And the lack of them makes it less of a stretch to imagine that Caylee was wearing only her diaper when she died.

If the BTSP T shirt and the shorts were kept in the car......i.e. a left over from the sleepovers at Riccardo's, I could totally see Casey grabbing for them to mop up the first signs of leaking fluids. :what: I dont think the laundry bag was used on the 16th. I think its plausible the shorts and T shirt were tossed in the laundry bag the same day Caylee was. Just another theory.

BBM... IMO, this is GA executing the fine art of deflection... i.e., getting LE, media and those following Caylee's case, to focus on an event that he said happened to build their timeline for that day.

If I think about it - whether or not OCA did leave and then returned, or never left the house, with Caylee is of no meaning in the grand scheme of things - but it continues to have some people believing it did happen (OCA left the house and later returned) and GA's ability to recall exactly what Caylee was wearing that day -a statement given at a time when he, GA and CA were insisting to LE that is was 5 weeks since they last saw Caylee. Originally, they all claimed June 9th, which was later found to not be true.

Tim Miller - "they're all actors and they belong in Hollywood"
 
The testimony of both dog handlers, Jason Forgey (Gerus) and Kristin Brewer (Bones) is on this site in Witness transcriptions, taken verbatim from their testimony. I have read them both and while I don't remember them word for word I do remember that Gerus went around the pool searching and gave a trained alert by the playhouse area.
When they brought Bones out to confirm those findings, he went straight to the pool area, nose down, showed interest in that area and the porch, then went to the same playhouse area and gave a trained alert.
The next day Bones was brought back, but if you remember LE had by then dug up the paving and the playhouse area and he did not alert. His handler gave no opinion as to why that was..

There were two searches by two dogs, the first on a Tuesday and the second the folloiwing day on Wednesday. The first dog did not alert on the pool, but did alert on the playhouse. The second dog did not alert at all the next day.The testimony said the CSI took scrapings after the first dog search. - I didn't see anything about digging up the pavers - and the hsecond andler thought it was probably because the CSI removed the top layer of soil. The handler also said the dog does not have a habit of false alerts but it was possible.
 
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