Sievers Sidebar #1

[cebee]

I wonder if CWs reason for mentioning to people that he was making the trip to FL to fix MS home computer was in case he were seen, it would be his alibi. " I was there... but it was to fix the computer!" also explaining away any finger prints or dna in the home. That said- why wasnt he proclaiming loud and long that he "must have JUST MISSED GETTING MURDERED HIMSELF!!" to everyone who would listen when he heard of TS murder. Im surprised AW was not broadcasting that as well.
BUT. He must have thought he got away clean, no need to mention the murder unless someone he mentioned the trip to were to ask him about it. I wonder if he actually messed around with the computer while he was there just in case it got traced back somehow... " I was there, fixed it and left... the murderers must have come after I left!"
Seriously, it would have covered everything. MS would surely back him up.
Wonder if this is going to be his defense? And JR was along for company? And he left JR there and HE killed her while poor CWW was out getting souvenirs at 11 pm or something?

 

[irishchook]

I wonder if CWs reason for mentioning to people that he was making the trip to FL to fix MS home computer was in case he were seen, it would be his alibi. " I was there... but it was to fix the computer!" also explaining away any finger prints or dna in the home. That said- why wasnt he proclaiming loud and long that he "must have JUST MISSED GETTING MURDERED HIMSELF!!" to everyone who would listen when he heard of TS murder. Im surprised AW was not broadcasting that as well.
BUT. He must have thought he got away clean, no need to mention the murder unless someone he mentioned the trip to were to ask him about it. I wonder if he actually messed around with the computer while he was there just in case it got traced back somehow... " I was there, fixed it and left... the murderers must have come after I left!"
Seriously, it would have covered everything. MS would surely back him up.
Wonder if this is going to be his defense? And JR was along for company? And he left JR there and HE killed her while poor CWW was out getting souvenirs at 11 pm or something?

Excellent theory!

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

 

[mariahc]

I wonder if CWs reason for mentioning to people that he was making the trip to FL to fix MS home computer was in case he were seen, it would be his alibi. " I was there... but it was to fix the computer!" also explaining away any finger prints or dna in the home. That said- why wasnt he proclaiming loud and long that he "must have JUST MISSED GETTING MURDERED HIMSELF!!" to everyone who would listen when he heard of TS murder. Im surprised AW was not broadcasting that as well.
BUT. He must have thought he got away clean, no need to mention the murder unless someone he mentioned the trip to were to ask him about it. I wonder if he actually messed around with the computer while he was there just in case it got traced back somehow... " I was there, fixed it and left... the murderers must have come after I left!"
Seriously, it would have covered everything. MS would surely back him up.
Wonder if this is going to be his defense? And JR was along for company? And he left JR there and HE killed her while poor CWW was out getting souvenirs at 11 pm or something?

He has already said he was in Missouri during the time....

 

[creepingskills]

I think we have to take everything Skinner said with a grain of salt. He also made CWW out to be a tech genius and that's clearly not true. I'm not sure that CWW could afford the gas for regular trips to FL.

JMO, I think Skinner blindly believed CWW's stories because he had no reason not to take whatever was said at face value. Also, MS backed up CWW's tales. Now that we know CWW tells lies so easily debunked (ex. telling Lubinski he and MS found TS) I wouldn't be surprised if CWW told Skinner he was a tech genius and took many trips to FL. I don't think Skinner independently had any other first hand 'proof' beyond CWW being a legend in CWW's own mind coupled with CWW's competence in the programming arena.

I went back and reviewed Skinner's thread, very interesting to read through with the information we have now. I think Skinner is a long time, loyal friend to MS. At one point years ago, they were very close and its hard to remove that 'tint' of the past when examining someone's current behavior, if that makes sense. MS is manipulative to say the least, I'm sure he exhibited plenty of 'nice guy' acts over the years to convince Skinner of his honorable, moral character. What Skinner didn't know, at no fault of his own, was that MS was simply wearing a the mask, acting how he thinks good men act. With a lot of history together comes a lot of lies told over time. Lies are easier to tell and easier to believe when you consider the physical distance between old friends. :moo:

From Skinner's thread, my comments italicized.

• MS told me about how a doctor friend of theirs (MS and TS) was called by MS to go to the home and investigate. He had been called on his cell phone by office staff telling him that TS was not in the office and not answering her phone.

We should keep this explanation from MS in mind, considering he wouldn't answer LE's written request for the same information (who called you to check on TS?).

Skinner was duped, evidenced by these posts:

• If MS is guilty orchestrating this, he had to put up quite a deceptive practice with me, 100% of the time, over the past 10 years. This is what makes me think it is not even conceivable that he is guilty.
• MS was involved with a fair amount of the business end of this, and he would want to talk to me about all those business details, and well...... money is not a motivational reason for MS to commit murder, or have it done.
• IF MS is involved in the murder, then it would mean, without hesitation, that there was an intense hatred for her that he concealed to me, PERFECTLY, for 10 years. He deceived me, by way of not opening up about the "truth" of his resentment (which is not in MS character).

Safe to say MS masked his true character, resentment, concealed his intense hatred to Skinner for 10 years.

• MS is not at all stupid, and he knows how we live in Orwell's "1984" times (even worse). He would not risk it. No way, in my thinking.

Very insightful because MS did risk it, but in a way that confirms Skinner's 1984 comment, with burner phones and secure texts.

Other thought provoking posts in light of recent discovery:

• They would not let him into the house for several days or maybe a week or three. I remember on our 2nd conversation I asked him about if anything was stolen, and he said he did not know. I said, "What do you mean? What about your safes?" He said, "Oh, yeah, they were okay. The LE made me open them."
• 1) IF WW had a hand in murder of TS on behalf of MS, money would not have been the motivator. It would have been a bonus, if and when anything might come down the pipe, but money would not have been the reason on behalf of MS. I know WW well enough that he would have done it for a type of moral reason. An outrage, or injustice, that needed addressing, and he is capable of taking matters into his own hand when the police are not doing enough, or to help a dear friend who seems in bad shape.

 

[cebee]

He has already said he was in Missouri during the time....

He did tell people he was going to FL to fix MS computer. The 'never left Missouri' part came later.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

I wonder if CWs reason for mentioning to people that he was making the trip to FL to fix MS home computer was in case he were seen, it would be his alibi. " I was there... but it was to fix the computer!" also explaining away any finger prints or dna in the home. That said- why wasnt he proclaiming loud and long that he "must have JUST MISSED GETTING MURDERED HIMSELF!!" to everyone who would listen when he heard of TS murder. Im surprised AW was not broadcasting that as well.
BUT. He must have thought he got away clean, no need to mention the murder unless someone he mentioned the trip to were to ask him about it. I wonder if he actually messed around with the computer while he was there just in case it got traced back somehow... " I was there, fixed it and left... the murderers must have come after I left!"
Seriously, it would have covered everything. MS would surely back him up.
Wonder if this is going to be his defense? And JR was along for company? And he left JR there and HE killed her while poor CWW was out getting souvenirs at 11 pm or something?

I think JR did most of the driving as well as the murder, as he admitted as much to his gf that HE used a hammer. However. I do believe of course that CWW assisted in the murder and both deserve the death penalty.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[FightTheOstrich]

JMO, I think Skinner blindly believed CWW's stories because he had no reason not to take whatever was said at face value. Also, MS backed up CWW's tales. Now that we know CWW tells lies so easily debunked (ex. telling Lubinski he and MS found TS) I wouldn't be surprised if CWW told Skinner he was a tech genius and took many trips to FL. I don't think Skinner independently had any other first hand 'proof' beyond CWW being a legend in CWW's own mind coupled with CWW's competence in the programming arena.

I went back and reviewed Skinner's thread, very interesting to read through with the information we have now. I think Skinner is a long time, loyal friend to MS. At one point years ago, they were very close and its hard to remove that 'tint' of the past when examining someone's current behavior, if that makes sense. MS is manipulative to say the least, I'm sure he exhibited plenty of 'nice guy' acts over the years to convince Skinner of his honorable, moral character. What Skinner didn't know, at no fault of his own, was that MS was simply wearing a the mask, acting how he thinks good men act. With a lot of history together comes a lot of lies told over time. Lies are easier to tell and easier to believe when you consider the physical distance between old friends. :moo:

From Skinner's thread, my comments italicized.

• MS told me about how a doctor friend of theirs (MS and TS) was called by MS to go to the home and investigate. He had been called on his cell phone by office staff telling him that TS was not in the office and not answering her phone.

We should keep this explanation from MS in mind, considering he wouldn't answer LE's written request for the same information (who called you to check on TS?).

Skinner was duped, evidenced by these posts:

• If MS is guilty orchestrating this, he had to put up quite a deceptive practice with me, 100% of the time, over the past 10 years. This is what makes me think it is not even conceivable that he is guilty.
• MS was involved with a fair amount of the business end of this, and he would want to talk to me about all those business details, and well...... money is not a motivational reason for MS to commit murder, or have it done.
• IF MS is involved in the murder, then it would mean, without hesitation, that there was an intense hatred for her that he concealed to me, PERFECTLY, for 10 years. He deceived me, by way of not opening up about the "truth" of his resentment (which is not in MS character).

Safe to say MS masked his true character, resentment, concealed his intense hatred to Skinner for 10 years.

• MS is not at all stupid, and he knows how we live in Orwell's "1984" times (even worse). He would not risk it. No way, in my thinking.

Very insightful because MS did risk it, but in a way that confirms Skinner's 1984 comment, with burner phones and secure texts.

Other thought provoking posts in light of recent discovery:

• They would not let him into the house for several days or maybe a week or three. I remember on our 2nd conversation I asked him about if anything was stolen, and he said he did not know. I said, "What do you mean? What about your safes?" He said, "Oh, yeah, they were okay. The LE made me open them."
• 1) IF WW had a hand in murder of TS on behalf of MS, money would not have been the motivator. It would have been a bonus, if and when anything might come down the pipe, but money would not have been the reason on behalf of MS. I know WW well enough that he would have done it for a type of moral reason. An outrage, or injustice, that needed addressing, and he is capable of taking matters into his own hand when the police are not doing enough, or to help a dear friend who seems in bad shape.

Skinner was clearly taken for a ride but didn't Skinner state that CWW worked for him on his patent?

Edit

Here Skinner speaks to CWW's specific skills. Idk, clearly Skinner was duped by both men but CWW supposedly worked for Skinner on his program. Which is different than just hearing and believing CWW's BS.

Post #301
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Dr-Teresa-Sievers-46&p=12100242#post12100242

Maybe years of cooking and using meth and other drugs fried CWW's brain. It's just hard to reconcile the profile of CWW that Skinner presented with the CWW presented in the docs we've been reading.

 

[atthelake]

I wonder if CWW was even aware of the repercussions of the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act of 1994 as to impact of their burner phones. The law has been almost updated annually to incorporate the rapidly expanding electronic landscape and the many ways exploited by criminals.

The law requires manufacturers and service carriers of telecommunications devices to include surveillance capabilities in all designs and systems iirc .

That is where pinging comes into play.


My guess is that law enforcement has also done tower dumps.

:moo:

 

[creepingskills]

Skinner was clearly taken for a ride but didn't Skinner state that CWW worked for him on his patent?

Yes, and IIRC the work was programming related. IOW, from Skinner's perspective CWW could do the job he was hired to do which required some level intelligence. I think CWW padded Skinner's first hand impression with tall tales of 'geniusing'. This, coupled with MS touting CWW as a genius was probably why Skinner was so convinced.

 

[Russian Blue]

I think we have to take everything Skinner said with a grain of salt. He also made CWW out to be a tech genius and that's clearly not true. I'm not sure that CWW could afford the gas for regular trips to FL.

Agreed, and how many years ago was it that Skinner knew him "well"?

He may actually been a tech genius, with brilliance to go deep in certain areas software, computers, websites, internet, but from a big picture perspective, planning a complicated murder and controlling for so many factors and others involved? Maybe at one time that was true.

Not so now, and if he was still a drug user, may not have been thinking clearly. I think the accident which put the KIA out of commission and forced them into a rental car was an unforeseen complication, that alone if not planned spiraled a few other things.

To many people involved in this crime, too many cooks in the kitchen. CWW also sounded as if in his work life he was a lone wolf, an independent operator.

So while a genius in his field, not good at other life skills and getting along with others--and then that opposite side of him where he could be very charismatic with others. Maybe the big picture things escape him. Mark I feel was the instigator, the money man, the one who wanted TS dead, and while planned together, the tactical seemed to left up to CWW and to do all the execution. CWW did it for the money.

To be clear, I am grateful for Skinner's input, for it gave me a picture of how CWW was/could be perceived. I think he, as could be for any of us, we see only a few sides of the story or a person and often what we want to see.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I wonder if CWs reason for mentioning to people that he was making the trip to FL to fix MS home computer was in case he were seen, it would be his alibi. " I was there... but it was to fix the computer!" also explaining away any finger prints or dna in the home. That said- why wasnt he proclaiming loud and long that he "must have JUST MISSED GETTING MURDERED HIMSELF!!" to everyone who would listen when he heard of TS murder. Im surprised AW was not broadcasting that as well.
BUT. He must have thought he got away clean, no need to mention the murder unless someone he mentioned the trip to were to ask him about it. I wonder if he actually messed around with the computer while he was there just in case it got traced back somehow... " I was there, fixed it and left... the murderers must have come after I left!"
Seriously, it would have covered everything. MS would surely back him up.
Wonder if this is going to be his defense? And JR was along for company? And he left JR there and HE killed her while poor CWW was out getting souvenirs at 11 pm or something?

Wow. If they played it your way. They would definitely not be in jail right now. Maybe jr for the parole violation. But that would be it.

Everything would have been hard to disprove. So the police would know but it would have been harder.

That definitely would have been a good spin if they immediately played it like that on day one.

Mark would say my I.T guy came to do whatever to my computer.

And Curtis would say I was there but we left once Teresa got home. And i feel bad for not being there for her.

The perps must have seen us leave and then knew she was alone.


But on a serious note. I'm just glad that they were all dumber than a bag of bricks. Lol. So they will not be passing go. And they will not be collecting their $200. Lol

 

[mariahc]

Agreed, and how many years ago was it that Skinner knew him "well"?

He may actually been a tech genius, with brilliance to go deep in certain areas software, computers, websites, internet, but from a big picture perspective, planning a complicated murder and controlling for so many factors and others involved? Maybe at one time that was true.

Not so now, and if he was still a drug user, may not have been thinking clearly. I think the accident which put the KIA out of commission and forced them into a rental car was an unforeseen complication, that alone if not planned spiraled a few other things.

To many people involved in this crime, too many cooks in the kitchen. CWW also sounded as if in his work life he was a lone wolf, an independent operator.

So while a genius in his field, not good at other life skills and getting along with others--and then that opposite side of him where he could be very charismatic with others. Maybe the big picture things escape him. Mark I feel was the instigator, the money man, the one who wanted TS dead, and while planned together, the tactical seemed to left up to CWW and to do all the execution. CWW did it for the money.

To be clear, I am grateful for Skinner's input, for it gave me a picture of how CWW was/could be perceived. I think he, as could be for any of us, we see only a few sides of the story or a person and often what we want to see.

Yes and technology does not stand still. Just because he became a technology "whiz" (if he did) several years ago, the life of substance abuse and other poor life choices would not be compatible with discipline it would have taken to stay current.

 

[IQuestion]

Wasn't it Skinner who said that CWW could practically drive to Florida blindfolded or something to that effect? If that were the case, why did he need step-by-step instructions via the Garmin? To estimate travel time, perhaps?

Because, when CWW was sleeping in the back seat, he didn't want JRR to get lost!
And a GPS can give up dates on traffic, detours, toll roads (to avoid?), re-fueling locations...and "Chinese food..." apparently one of JRR's favorites.

 

[atthelake]

I wonder if CWs reason for mentioning to people that he was making the trip to FL to fix MS home computer was in case he were seen, it would be his alibi. " I was there... but it was to fix the computer!" also explaining away any finger prints or dna in the home. That said- why wasnt he proclaiming loud and long that he "must have JUST MISSED GETTING MURDERED HIMSELF!!" to everyone who would listen when he heard of TS murder. Im surprised AW was not broadcasting that as well.
BUT. He must have thought he got away clean, no need to mention the murder unless someone he mentioned the trip to were to ask him about it. I wonder if he actually messed around with the computer while he was there just in case it got traced back somehow... " I was there, fixed it and left... the murderers must have come after I left!"
Seriously, it would have covered everything. MS would surely back him up.
Wonder if this is going to be his defense? And JR was along for company? And he left JR there and HE killed her while poor CWW was out getting souvenirs at 11 pm or something?

:goodpost:

 

[scaredtopost]

Do we have any indication of when MS learned of JR's involvement? I can't imagine he was too thrilled to learn of that news if it was not a part of his original plan. I'm guessing close to the time he stopped cooperating? Still thinking of those innocent girls who have been robbed of so much... ♡

 

[Dmacky]

Agreed, and how many years ago was it that Skinner knew him "well"?

He may actually been a tech genius, with brilliance to go deep in certain areas software, computers, websites, internet, but from a big picture perspective, planning a complicated murder and controlling for so many factors and others involved? Maybe at one time that was true.

Not so now, and if he was still a drug user, may not have been thinking clearly. I think the accident which put the KIA out of commission and forced them into a rental car was an unforeseen complication, that alone if not planned spiraled a few other things.

To many people involved in this crime, too many cooks in the kitchen. CWW also sounded as if in his work life he was a lone wolf, an independent operator.

So while a genius in his field, not good at other life skills and getting along with others--and then that opposite side of him where he could be very charismatic with others. Maybe the big picture things escape him. Mark I feel was the instigator, the money man, the one who wanted TS dead, and while planned together, the tactical seemed to left up to CWW and to do all the execution. CWW did it for the money.

To be clear, I am grateful for Skinner's input, for it gave me a picture of how CWW was/could be perceived. I think he, as could be for any of us, we see only a few sides of the story or a person and often what we want to see.

You are exactly right RusB. Even one of the Ronnie Bolin verified Insider's (even knowing how evil he was) said that he was very personable and that if you met him, you would like him.
They are truly Jeckle and Hyde. Well, the "brothers from a different mother" (everyone here get on their OTHER hone: now) can't "hyde" now. I want all 3 of them to burn in HELL... TODAY
BOTH CWW & MARK SIEVERS are psychopath's!

Just a couple of their obvious characteristics
Glib and superficial

Psychopaths tend to talk a lot. They know how to read people and can be funny and entertaining and they are often boasting, telling stories about how good they are. The stories may be unconvincing but they somehow manage to present themselves as likeable and charming. For some people, however, the psychopath is too smooth, or is simply playing a role.

The psychopath can often talk about any subject as if he were an expert, often even using the jargon. Some of them do it so well, and with such confidence, that they can even fool psychologists, experts in this field, who know they're talking to a psychopath!

Psychopaths tend to have enormous egos, an incredible sense of entitlement and an overinflated sense of their own self-worth and importance. They are arrogant and cocky, they have an opinion on everything and they are always right. They have incredible confidence but often without the competence.

When caught out, psychopaths will often deny or minimize the effect of their actions on others. In fact, they typically make out that they are the victim! And they can play the victim role very well. For them it's simply another one of the masks that they present to the world.

Robert Hare ~ in his book 'Without Conscience'
http://www.decision-making-confidence.com/characteristics-of-a-psychopath.html

 

[flgrl017]

Yes and technology does not stand still. Just because he became a technology "whiz" (if he did) several years ago, the life of substance abuse and other poor life choices would not be compatible with discipline it would have taken to stay current.

This! My neighbor actually got out of the field because it moves so fast and he got tired of keeping up with it.

*I also don't think CWW is as smart as he thinks he is either.

 

[Stopwatch]

Agreed, and how many years ago was it that Skinner knew him "well"?

He may actually been a tech genius, with brilliance to go deep in certain areas software, computers, websites, internet, but from a big picture perspective, planning a complicated murder and controlling for so many factors and others involved? Maybe at one time that was true.

Not so now, and if he was still a drug user, may not have been thinking clearly. I think the accident which put the KIA out of commission and forced them into a rental car was an unforeseen complication, that alone if not planned spiraled a few other things.

To many people involved in this crime, too many cooks in the kitchen. CWW also sounded as if in his work life he was a lone wolf, an independent operator.

So while a genius in his field, not good at other life skills and getting along with others--and then that opposite side of him where he could be very charismatic with others. Maybe the big picture things escape him. Mark I feel was the instigator, the money man, the one who wanted TS dead, and while planned together, the tactical seemed to left up to CWW and to do all the execution. CWW did it for the money.

To be clear, I am grateful for Skinner's input, for it gave me a picture of how CWW was/could be perceived. I think he, as could be for any of us, we see only a few sides of the story or a person and often what we want to see.

I never bought the computer "genius" bit. I work in IT, and when I help people with a problem, sometimes they are "amazed" at what turns out to be a very simple fix. I'm certainly no genius.

It's like people who look at a toddler who speaks another language and can't understand how a kid could pick up Italian, or Chinese, or Russian when they can't. It doesn't mean the child is a genius; they've just been sufficiently exposed to a language so it makes sense to them.

 

[human]

This! My neighbor actually got out of the field because it moves so fast and he got tired of keeping up with it.

*I also don't think CWW is as smart as he thinks he is either.

I can't remember it , but didn't CWW have something on FB that stupid peoole should not breed?

 

[Dmacky]

I wonder if CWs reason for mentioning to people that he was making the trip to FL to fix MS home computer was in case he were seen, it would be his alibi. " I was there... but it was to fix the computer!" also explaining away any finger prints or dna in the home. That said- why wasnt he proclaiming loud and long that he "must have JUST MISSED GETTING MURDERED HIMSELF!!" to everyone who would listen when he heard of TS murder. Im surprised AW was not broadcasting that as well.
BUT. He must have thought he got away clean, no need to mention the murder unless someone he mentioned the trip to were to ask him about it. I wonder if he actually messed around with the computer while he was there just in case it got traced back somehow... " I was there, fixed it and left... the murderers must have come after I left!"
Seriously, it would have covered everything. MS would surely back him up.
Wonder if this is going to be his defense? And JR was along for company? And he left JR there and HE killed her while poor CWW was out getting souvenirs at 11 pm or something?

Excellent theory!

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

It is, BUT don't want to give them any idea's :wink:
We seriously don't know who all reads here. There's a lot of people in CWW's circle of friends who think nothing of stealing...even idea's or alibi's. We need to be careful what we say. JMO ~