Sixteen years... back to the basics

[SunVenus]

My responses to your post are:

1. Either the R's never took the ransom note seriously (because they already knew it was a scam) or PR did not finish reading the ransom note before she freaked out and called the police. Once she realized JBR was missing she went into panic mode, stopped reading, and called the police. What Mother of a missing child could stay calm and rational in light of that?

2. I have always harbored a suspicion about those people who the R's called that morning and who promptly showed up. My suspicion is that those people were already prepared to show up that morning, because they already knew what had happened. They were there to give cover for the R's to the police. Some or all of them are somehow complicit in the crime. I have hinted at my suspicions about this before. This would most certainly include Fleet White.

3. Why would the security light on the outside of the house be off except to give cover of darkness to one or more people outside of the house? Think about it. If the entirety of this crime happened inside of the house, there would be no reason to disable the security light. If, on the other hand, the security light would allow people outside of the house to be seen by nosy neighbors then there was every reason for the light to be out. They had the light off because other people came to their house late that night, people who were not supposed to be seen, and they were not seen. I am in no way meaning "intruders" when I say this. In any case, this disabled security light is, I feel, one of the important keys to solving this crime.

4. Related to the above is the wiped down flashlight and batteries. There was no reason to wipe these down of fingerprints if it was just R fingerprints on them. R fingerprints would be expected to be on them. On the other hand, if there were other fingerprints on them from another person (not a R) then there would be every reason to wipe these articles. This is another major key. It is NOT the R's wanting to distance themselves from the crime they committed. It is someone else (not a R) wanting to hide their presence in the house that night.

Regarding 1) I believe PR was never asleep in bed that night. I suspect neither was JR, or at least not sleeping in that bed. The ransom note screams "PR" IMO, the phrasing (such oddities as using the word "hence" which PR is known to do in other writings), the movie references, the personalisation of it towards JR, the ransom of $118,000, the use of "attache", etc. So I feel the RN is a red herring, part of the staging. I think it plays no bearing in timeline PR gave; ina real time line of events that night we'd have to include the composition of it, etc. That and the reasons I listed make PRs version of events implausible.

Regarding 2) I have read your theories about this crime, and haven't addressed them much. In fact, I have wanted to ask you some very pointed questions on who you think committed this, but I wanted to do so on the thread you started on your alternative theory. So I will hold off for now. I don't see anything unreasonable about the friends showing up quickly at a panicked call from Patsy. They all lived pretty close, one even mentioned that PR hadn't given details on the phone and had thought JR had had a heart attack. I know that I have recieved urgent, emergency phone calls when bad things have happened to my family or friends, and I've gotten there fast, which didn't mean that I had any foreknowledge or involvement. That's what people do, they help. Sometimes they are duped, which may be what happened to the Whites, the Fernies and the reverend. IMO the Rs wanted as many people there as possible for a myriad of reasons: they were genuinely distressed (even if they had killed their own kid), they wanted as many feet & hands around to muddy a potential crime scene, they are overly dramatic people. etc. So I don't see anything nearly as odd in calling their friends or the time they did so as I do in the implausibility of PRs outline of events before she called them.

Regarding 3) A neighbour who lived in the house behind the alleyway which was in effect the driveway to the Ramsey's home had a dog which did not bark that night. Whether this dog had been used to Ramseys coming & going and they weren't on his "bark-list" (you get the jist of what I mean) may be significant. Would a stranger trigger the dog barking? That seems to be what is implied in the fact that the statement from the dog's owner was included in released detials on this investigation. Would that same dog not bark at (for example) the Fernies or the Whites? We don't know. The light being off does make for an area that someone might sneak about it. However, that to me looks far more like convenience for staging or moving of something than it does for an entry or exit. But there are no indications of non-Ramseys in the home that night that seem to lead anywhere. THis is one of those things that yes, it can be read either towards your theory of a Ramsey asssisted killer/s, or it can be seen as convenient way for a R to do things in the dark. It's a hard one to make sense of.

Regardiing 4) Ah... our old friend the wiped down flashlight & batteries. I think there is a simple explanation for this, and it goes along with what you wrote. The Ramsey's owned the flashlight. It was used somehow in the crime, either in the head bash, or for staging parts of the cover-up. Someone got overzealous in wiping things down. It's not like the Ramseys are criminal masterminds, and we all know the old saying "too many cooks spoil the soup". Maybe PR (although she certainly isn't known for cleanliness!) in her nervousness got to wiping down the light & the batteries inside because she knew there were R prints-- inside it and out. She's panicked, and doesn't realise that if they are really innocent & the torch is really theirs, it would be expected to have their prints on it and on the batteries. By wiping it down, she may have thought "this is something an evil paedophile intruder would do to mask his vile crime". To me that makes the torch even more likely to be part of the crime. (I don't know if I explained that well, hope it made sense.) But yes, along the same lines as what you think, but I think the likelihood of someone other than PR, BR or JR being involved in this is low to nil.

Thanks for your contributions, and at some point I want to address your theory-- I think I can actually be of some professional assistance on that if you are pointing towards the aspect I think you might.

 

[SunVenus]

Thanks, but the previous 911 still bothers me. I've read that it was the Rs friend, (can't remember her name, but she was later referred to as PR's bulldog, or some such), who told the cops that the 911 call was an accident, and there was no emergency. Does anybody believe this? A 911 call from the same house where a murdered child was found, was a misdial? If the call was made, LE needs to investigate it....go back to that night, what led up to the call, every little detail of who said what, who all was there, and interrogate the lady who turned the cops away. I've also read that this lady said FW accidentally made the call. I'm not inclined to believe this, because how do you accidentally dial 911 instead of a regular number? If he was trying to call 411, a comb through of the phone records would verify it, and the 411 would be just a few seconds after the misdial. But, FW, was a grown man, so I can't imagine him hanging up on 911, or refusing to answer when they called back.

I'm with you on this one too Dodie! (Honestly, I have been immersed in JBR for a few weeks now, more so than usual and it's starting to make me tired).

The odd thing is, it wasn't 'til a few days ago that I re-read about this call and relaised it came from the RAMSEY Christmas party. For some unknown reason in my mixed up little pea-brain, I thought it happened at the White's party. Now for all the reasons you demonstrated, this call should be looked at further. It's just... bizarre. Or-- again with my devil's advocacy section of my head-- what if a kid had dialled the number, maybe Burke & Doug daring each other & being naughty? You know, something innocent & unrelated.

This is another head-scratcher. Can it be eliminated as irrelevant, or can it be something else?

On a general note: I am so glad I decided to post this thread, but it seems we are coming up with more questions than answers! Sure it's making me tug a my hair a bit, but it's also good-- with all our minds together on this, all of us attempting to use fresh eyes, well who knows where it will go? And with every question, we have a chance at an answer, so maybe the more we ask, the more we might have revealed.

 

[DeeDee249]

It has never been stated exactly who made that 911 call from the Rs home on the 23rd. It was the Rs friend Susan Stine who answered the door and gave the police some story which obviously they believed, as they did not demand to enter.
There have been various accounts of WHY the call was made...one version is that FW had called because his mother (who was also there) felt ill, but then recovered before police arrived. Other theories center on JB, who was found sitting on a staircase crying. When asked why she was crying, she said that she "didn't feel pretty".
Police never seemed to investigate this previous 911 call any further, even when a child was found dead in that same house 3 days later.
There are a great many questions that would have been asked if this case had gone to trial. But the DA did not WANT that (not did the Rs and their lawyers) because these were questions they did not want answered.
There were so many people who would have been questioned under oath on the witness stand- the coroner, the pediatrician, the party guests for BOTN nights (the 23 and 25). The business associates who were named as suspects by JR, the housekeeper LHP (also thrown under the bus) and most important, perhaps, FW, who was THERE as the body was found and knows the truth about whether JB did the things he claimed (give her mouth -to-mouth, for one thing). Had he done so, FW would have seen it and JR would not have had to ask Det. Arndt of his cold, blue, stiff daughter was dead.
JR also claimed to untie her wrists, which he said were tightly bound. The autopsy proved they were NOT. Really not even tied at all. And if they had been, rigor mortis at that point would have kept them frozen in that position even after the cords were untied. So we KNOW that was a lie.

 

[midwest mama]

I'm with you on this one too Dodie! (Honestly, I have been immersed in JBR for a few weeks now, more so than usual and it's starting to make me tired).

The odd thing is, it wasn't 'til a few days ago that I re-read about this call and relaised it came from the RAMSEY Christmas party. For some unknown reason in my mixed up little pea-brain, I thought it happened at the White's party. Now for all the reasons you demonstrated, this call should be looked at further. It's just... bizarre. Or-- again with my devil's advocacy section of my head-- what if a kid had dialled the number, maybe Burke & Doug daring each other & being naughty? You know, something innocent & unrelated.

This is another head-scratcher. Can it be eliminated as irrelevant, or can it be something else?

On a general note: I am so glad I decided to post this thread, but it seems we are coming up with more questions than answers! Sure it's making me tug a my hair a bit, but it's also good-- with all our minds together on this, all of us attempting to use fresh eyes, well who knows where it will go? And with every question, we have a chance at an answer, so maybe the more we ask, the more we might have revealed.

The party on the 23rd at the Ramseys was a last minute concession on the part of Patsy to Bill McReynolds, the Santa guy. Patsy was planning to forego their annual party with McReynolds because of all she had to do to get the family ready for the holiday, plus get them all ready to go to Michigan for the first time, and then on to the Disney cruise.

But McReynolds said he had a famous news journalist friend, Kuralt (?), who would do a story on the Ramseys and would also come to the party, and Patsy being who she was couldn't resist this social coup. Of course Kuralt didn't show up - just a pretext to get a bunch of people in for some reason?
And was one of the reasons so someone could make the call for purposes of timing the police response?

From the same bunch of people who were together on the 23rd, some again gathered on the 25th at the Whites. The Stines didn't attend the Whites, but were the last visited by the Ramseys on the way home from the Whites. Susan Stine rebuffed the police from the Ramseys on the 23rd, and also posed as Beckner? Stines were photographed with the Ramseys bearing wine glasses and having fun at the Charlevoix house 6 months after JB's murder, with Patsy giving a rendition in DOA of them pretending to shoot at paparazzi from their deck just prior to the snapped photo. The R's also lived with the Stines for 6 months. And in 1998 Glenn Stine went to work in JR's company. Quite a friendship, I'd say! The R's could have afforded any furnished residence in Boulder as a temporary home. But maybe he was able to offer Glenn a stellar position with all the money he saved by them living with the Stines? Something is too cozy about the R's and Stines.

 

[midwest mama]

Snipped: Why would the security light on the outside of the house be off except to give cover of darkness to one or more people outside of the house? Think about it. If the entirety of this crime happened inside of the house, there would be no reason to disable the security light. If, on the other hand, the security light would allow people outside of the house to be seen by nosy neighbors then there was every reason for the light to be out. They had the light off because other people came to their house late that night, people who were not supposed to be seen, and they were not seen. I am in no way meaning "intruders" when I say this. In any case, this disabled security light is, I feel, one of the important keys to solving this crime.

John Ramsey once made a reference to there being a lot of people there (at the house) at 3 am, IIRC. Can someone help with where this came from?

 

[otg]

Stines were photographed with the Ramseys bearing wine glasses and having fun at the Charlevoix house 6 months after JB's murder, with Patsy giving a rendition in DOA of them pretending to shoot at paparazzi from their deck just prior to the snapped photo.

arty:
​

uke:
​

 

[Donjeta]

I don't find it odd if people call 911 immediately after finding a ransom note but washing clothing before 6 am seems somewhat unusual to me. Let's say it's not part of my morning routine.

 

[otg]

Great points!

Re: the JBR photos in the basement. I'll admit that is a fact I'd not heard after all these years, so before giving an "informed" (or as much as it is possible to be informed in all this) opinion, I will look into it, the circumstances of how they were found, if they were logged into evidence, try to pinpoint just which photos they were, etc. But as an off the cuff response: Maybe it was BR. But knowing what I know of PR and her less-than-perfect housekeeping (and management of housekeeping), it may have just been chucked down there to get it out of the way. By many accounts the R home was disorganised, or only superficially organised, but by yet other accounts, any & all things pertianing to JBR were pretty much enshrined. So I honestly don't know what to think about this. I do appreciate you pointing this out, thanks!

To the best of my recollection, the question about a photo (or photos) in the basement came from conjecture about this portion of the interview with Patsy:

21 THOMAS HANEY: Did you take some
22 photographs of JonBenet in the basement laundry
23 room?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
25 TRIP DeMUTH: You had presents in
0186
1 the basement laundry room, right?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
3 TRIP DeMUTH: So you wrapped
4 presents in the basement laundry room, right?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
6 TRIP DeMUTH: So you were down in
7 the basement laundry room pretty often?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: Depending on what
9 time of year it was, yeah, uh-hum.
10 TRIP DeMUTH: And do you remember
11 photographs being -- photographs of JonBenet
12 being in there?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Taken of her in the
14 laundry room?
15 TRIP DeMUTH: No, no. Photographs
16 of her located in the laundry room?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, in the laundry
18 room, oh. I don't know, there was a bunch of
19 stuff, I mean wrapping stuff and everything. I
20 don't remember any photographs.
21 TRIP DeMUTH: Is there any reason
22 why there would be photographs of JonBenet
23 located in the laundry room?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: No. Were there --
25 I mean, did somebody find them there?
0187
1 TRIP DeMUTH: If there were, would
2 that be out of place for you?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: It would seem to be
4 out of place. I kept wrapping materials and
5 sometimes I worked, wrapping station, Christmas
6 paper and --
7 TRIP DeMUTH: Would -- who else had
8 access to the laundry room, who else would go in
9 there? I know everybody would have access, but
10 who else would use it? Would the boys play in
11 there? Would John go down there?
12 PATSY RAMSEY: I mean anybody
13 could, but I mean the boys could come down and
14 go in the train room, we had the train set up.
15 In the far back in through there, you know. Not
16 in the laundry, really, area.
17 TRIP DeMUTH: Did anybody besides
18 you use that laundry room?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Sometimes Linda
20 would wash, if we were washing comforters or
21 something, because those were big heavy-duty
22 laundry machines, she'd take the things in
23 there, rugs and things, and wash them down
24 there.
25 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
0188
1 THOMAS HANEY: So you don't recall
2 taking a photo of her down there?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: (Shaking head.)
4 THOMAS HANEY: If she was doing
5 something really cutesy or something, would you
6 maybe run and get the camera, take one of her?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Of her in the
8 laundry room?
9 THOMAS HANEY: Uh-hum.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

To my knowledge, there has never been an answer as to the nature of that photo (or those photos). And by the nonspecific way the questions were posed, it is not even known by the public whether they were referring to a photo(s) of JonBenet that was found in the basement, or a photo(s) that was taken of her while in the basement.

(BTW, SunVenus, excellent thread, and welcome to WS. It does us all good to review what we know -- and what we don't know.)

 

[otg]

The time they left the White's can be somewhat verified- according to the Rs it was around 9 pm.I am sure the White's would have been questioned about this and given a reasonably correct answer. After that- it is all R's version, so we cannot corroborate much of it. They said they brought along gifts for friends who were not at the White's that day, and made at least 2 stops. The last stop they decided not to take as it was the furthest away and it was getting late. I suppose LE would have questioned the people they claimed to visit- the approximate time, whether JB came into the house or if they saw her awake, etc. We do not have evidence of those questions being asked, but they should have been.
The Rs claim to have arrived home between 9:30 and 10 PM, which sounds accurate given the time they left the party and made a few stops. At this point, it seems truthful. After that, it is backpedalling and "rearranging" the truth and events of the rest of the night. BR claimed his sister was awake and walked into the house, his parents claim she fell asleep in the car and was carried into the house. The truth is probably that she fell asleep in the car (as kids often do) but woke up when they arrived home and walked in. I believe BR's version rather than his parents, because regardless of his involvement or not, at that point BR would not have understood the necessity of lying about his sister being awake. In his mind (nearly 10 at the time) he just wouldn't be thinking about needing to lie about it and why. We already know his parents later admitted BR actually WAS awake that morning, but decided to say that he had been asleep the whole time because "it was easier and wouldn't be bothered being questioned".
Now...if your child is kidnapped from her room and murdered and found in a garrote in the basement wouldn't you WANT police to talk to your surviving child whose room was just down the hall? They admit themselves they never talked to him about that night. This offends reason. Just wouldn't happen in real life. One of the many red flags that scream LIE.
Because they admitted lying about BR being asleep, it isn't too much of a leap to understand that they were also lying about JB being awake.

As far as the rest of it- the parents tell conflicting stories then, too. JR said he played with a toy with BR. They said JB never woke up, then he said he read to her. They denied knowing about any bedtime snack which was PROVEN to be pineapple and the pineapple was still sitting out on a table.
The neighbor who heard the scream then claimed she didn't, then later (after she moved out of Boulder) that she did, indeed, hear a scream around midnight (the approx time of death) and her husband claimed to hear the scraping sounds (he described it as "metal scraping concrete" after his wife woke him up when she heard the scream. Not much more is known, not sure how much LE spoke to them or what they thought of it.
Two different neighbors reported "light events" - one claiming to see the "strange, moving lights" (obviously someone walking with that flashlight) in the R kitchen window (the flashlight was found on a kitchen countertop), the other claiming that the den light was OFF for the first time since the Rs had lived there.
The previous 911 call, allegedly made at the Rs Christmas party on the 23rd, should have been easy enough to verify- records are kept of such things. Police, in a preview of protocol failure to come, did NOT enter the home, as is standard procedure. No matter WHAT you tell police when they arrive, they still are supposed to enter the home and see for themselves that there is no emergency.
As for the "Mega-JonBenet" intervention- that was said to have come from one of Patsy's friends, who claimed they were concerned that Patsy was taking the whole pageant thing and JB's incipient superstardom-to-be a bit too far. It was the dying of her hair (blonde highlights, actually) and the alleged use of blue contact in her already-beautiful green eyes that screamed "Enough with this already", as well as the Vegas showgirl costumes. JB was being railroaded into competing for that Miss America crown that Nedra's two daughters had missed. She wasn't about to let JB off the hook for that. If her daughters' ships had sailed, she was making sure her granddaughter had a first-class cabin on that ship.

Excellent summary explanation, DD. Sorry to quote the entire post for a simple comment, but at least it brings your post to this page so others might read it in case they missed it.

 

[otg]

Thanks, but the previous 911 still bothers me. I've read that it was the Rs friend, (can't remember her name, but she was later referred to as PR's bulldog, or some such), who told the cops that the 911 call was an accident, and there was no emergency. Does anybody believe this? A 911 call from the same house where a murdered child was found, was a misdial? If the call was made, LE needs to investigate it....go back to that night, what led up to the call, every little detail of who said what, who all was there, and interrogate the lady who turned the cops away. I've also read that this lady said FW accidentally made the call. I'm not inclined to believe this, because how do you accidentally dial 911 instead of a regular number? If he was trying to call 411, a comb through of the phone records would verify it, and the 411 would be just a few seconds after the misdial. But, FW, was a grown man, so I can't imagine him hanging up on 911, or refusing to answer when they called back.

(bbm)

IIRC, it was rumored/speculated at one time that FW was attempting to make an international call with the same prefixes he would have been using at work (dialing a "9" first to get an outside line). I don't buy it, but that was how that particular part of the "911" speculation started. The truth is, we just don't know why that call was placed, so speculative explanations are all we have.

 

[dodie20]

I don't find it odd if people call 911 immediately after finding a ransom note but washing clothing before 6 am seems somewhat unusual to me. Let's say it's not part of my morning routine.

While reading the Haleigh Cummings thread, I read that one of the red flags with her babysitter, (Misty Cummings), was that she referred to 'cleaning", (laundry, house), as part of her retelling of the timeline. Supposedly, these 'cleaning' references point to sexual abuse. IDK what kind of science backs this up, but after thinking about it, I think there may be something to the theory . In the Haleigh Cummings' case, the babysitter went overboard with the cleaning references, and there's no way this girl was actually cleaning, but with JB, I'm not sure. PR, may have actually cleaned out an outfit, for one reason or another, but like you, I find it odd. What exhausted woman, who's about to go on vacation, wakes up even earlier, to do a little laundry? Except out of extreme necessity, I don't see it. moo

 

[UKGuy]

To the best of my recollection, the question about a photo (or photos) in the basement came from conjecture about this portion of the interview with Patsy:

To my knowledge, there has never been an answer as to the nature of that photo (or those photos). And by the nonspecific way the questions were posed, it is not even known by the public whether they were referring to a photo(s) of JonBenet that was found in the basement, or a photo(s) that was taken of her while in the basement.

(BTW, SunVenus, excellent thread, and welcome to WS. It does us all good to review what we know -- and what we don't know.)

otg,
From memory, as this has been discussed before. There was a collection of photos found in the basement with all or the vast majority depicting JonBenet as the subject, and the theme was the pageants, with JonBenet dressed in her outfits. I think it was the discovery of these pictures which led to the issuing of the search warrant for their out of state house, with the results being sealed.

21 THOMAS HANEY: Did you take some
22 photographs of JonBenet in the basement laundry
23 room?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

From the line of questioning it seems its either the case there were pictures of JonBenet in the basement laundry, or it was a trick question, more so when Haney declines to assert yes they were found in the basement laundry.

This is similar to the size-12's. Haney may have been hoping that Patsy would hang herself, by saying something contradictory, better still aggreeing to their existence and location.

If its not a trick question then Haney is suggesting they have photographs of JonBenet taken in the basement laundry?

What we have not been told is the type of camera that took the photographs and where they were developed etc. Knowing this could quite quickly pin down the photographer.

IMO the photographs are prima facie evidence that someone appeared obsessed with JonBenet?


.

 

[midwest mama]

otg,
From memory, as this has been discussed before. There was a collection of photos found in the basement with all or the vast majority depicting JonBenet as the subject, and the theme was the pageants, with JonBenet dressed in her outfits. I think it was the discovery of these pictures which led to the issuing of the search warrant for their out of state house, with the results being sealed.



From the line of questioning it seems its either the case there were pictures of JonBenet in the basement laundry, or it was a trick question, more so when Haney declines to assert yes they were found in the basement laundry.

This is similar to the size-12's. Haney may have been hoping that Patsy would hang herself, by saying something contradictory, better still aggreeing to their existence and location.

If its not a trick question then Haney is suggesting they have photographs of JonBenet taken in the basement laundry?

What we have not been told is the type of camera that took the photographs and where they were developed etc. Knowing this could quite quickly pin down the photographer.

IMO the photographs are prima facie evidence that someone appeared obsessed with JonBenet?


.

Both Thomas and Kolar made reference to the lint and dust on the bottoms of JB's feet, which make me wonder about her being in a standing or seated position, both feet on the floor, in the basement laundry area which would be optimum place for lint and dust. If she had walked around in the basement in the vicinity of the laundry area, also possibility. If the "lint" was really fibers of some type from carpet or blankets, etc., would they have referenced it as "lint"?

 

[UKGuy]

Both Thomas and Kolar made reference to the lint and dust on the bottoms of JB's feet, which make me wonder about her being in a standing or seated position, both feet on the floor, in the basement laundry area which would be optimum place for lint and dust. If she had walked around in the basement in the vicinity of the laundry area, also possibility. If the "lint" was really fibers of some type from carpet or blankets, etc., would they have referenced it as "lint"?

midwest mama,
I agree with you on this. The answer is slightly ambiguous since lint is usually associated with bed sheets or linen. Sometimes its simply used in the generic sense, i.e. threads representing lint.

So the sheets on JonBenet's bed, what kind of fiber were they manufactured from and did they match what was on her feet?

But prima facie you have to ask was JonBenet in the basement laundry being both abused and photographed?

.

 

[midwest mama]

midwest mama,
I agree with you on this. The answer is slightly ambiguous since lint is usually associated with bed sheets or linen. Sometimes its simply used in the generic sense, i.e. threads representing lint.

So the sheets on JonBenet's bed, what kind of fiber were they manufactured from and did they match what was on her feet?

But prima facie you have to ask was JonBenet in the basement laundry being both abused and photographed?

.

JB's sheets were a smooth fabric, probably not much "lint" on them. If she had been tucked in between them, with bare feet, and asleep, then taken from her bed and carried down to the basement, I doubt if she would have had lint or dust on the bottoms of her feet.

Of course, if her socks were removed just prior to her being put into bed, it's possible there would have been some sock lint on the bottoms, but probably not dust.

And more likely, at least it's the case for me, the bottoms of feet get pretty well "dusted off" by the sheets of a bed when you're snuggled in.

So, I would think if JB was sockless, tucked in between her bed sheets and then removed abruptly from her bed and carried to the basement, there should not be noticeable lint and dust on the bottoms of her feet?

 

[UKGuy]

JB's sheets were a smooth fabric, probably not much "lint" on them. If she had been tucked in between them, with bare feet, and asleep, then taken from her bed and carried down to the basement, I doubt if she would have had lint or dust on the bottoms of her feet.

Of course, if her socks were removed just prior to her being put into bed, it's possible there would have been some sock lint on the bottoms, but probably not dust.

And more likely, at least it's the case for me, the bottoms of feet get pretty well "dusted off" by the sheets of a bed when you're snuggled in.

So, I would think if JB was sockless, tucked in between her bed sheets and then removed abruptly from her bed and carried to the basement, there should not be noticeable lint and dust on the bottoms of her feet?

midwest mama,
Yes it would appear so. Just why she would be barefoot down in the basement laundry late at night beats me, since we know there was no intruder.

The lint and dust are prima facie evidence that JonBenet was up and about walking and not lying in bed, then again the pineapple tells us the same story.

So why bother highlighting the lint and dust i.e. its likely LE reckon JonBenet walked about the basement laundry that night.

If you can prove this and there are photos of JonBenet taken in the basement, and we know JonBenet was sexually assaulted that night, then its quite possible that the primary crime scene has its nexus in the basement laundry.

I do not have Kolar's book so possibly some revision of his theory might turn up confirming facts?

.

 

[DeeDee249]

Her body was barefoot when she was found. The "lint" and dirt are pretty ambiguous. It could have come from anywhere and simply indicated she was standing up at some point barefoot. There WAS a way to test it to see exactly where it came from, but that was not done. (surprised?)
One thing the BPD let slip by- the dirt and lint prove she was awake and standing somewhere after her socks and shoes were removed when they got home.

 

[azwriter]

Her body was barefoot when she was found. The "lint" and dirt are pretty ambiguous. It could have come from anywhere and simply indicated she was standing up at some point barefoot. There WAS a way to test it to see exactly where it came from, but that was not done. (surprised?)
One thing the BPD let slip by- the dirt and lint prove she was awake and standing somewhere after her socks and shoes were removed when they got home.

bbm

Excellent point DeeDee about her feet. Had she been wearing shoes or slippers, the bottoms would also have told a tale of where she might have walked. But the bare feet were more important since feet without shoes often means the person was prepared to retire for the night.

But as you point out nothing was tested to uncover more clues. Sometimes I think LE officials didn't want to uncover anything about the case other than what they first saw at the scene. The lack of investigation in many areas to me is one of the bases for this crime not being solved. I also believe since I'm a BDI that his involvement and the laws in Co. about children committing crimes was another hold up in uncovering the truth in this case.

 

[Darlene733510]

I have not posted here for a long time, but I frequently read. I know it was on the 23rd that JB was crying, and said she did not feel pretty.
If I remember right, it was the 24th that JB spent most of the day in her room, in bed. Was she really not feeling well, or was it because of some sexual trauma that happened on the
23rd, or was she punished for something and restricted to her room?
Did BR have a friend over on the 23rd, and did they do something to JB? The Ramsey home was very large. Patsy was very busy trying to get everything done, and perhaps was not aware of what the children were doing.

 

[otg]

While reading the Haleigh Cummings thread, I read that one of the red flags with her babysitter, (Misty Cummings), was that she referred to 'cleaning", (laundry, house), as part of her retelling of the timeline. Supposedly, these 'cleaning' references point to sexual abuse. IDK what kind of science backs this up, but after thinking about it, I think there may be something to the theory . In the Haleigh Cummings' case, the babysitter went overboard with the cleaning references, and there's no way this girl was actually cleaning, but with JB, I'm not sure. PR, may have actually cleaned out an outfit, for one reason or another, but like you, I find it odd. What exhausted woman, who's about to go on vacation, wakes up even earlier, to do a little laundry? Except out of extreme necessity, I don't see it. moo

Kind of like "canning apricots" (if anyone saw the movie, "Goin' South").

http://spoon-full-of-sugah.lilsugar.com/Buy-me-man-I-need-canned-apricots-3774132

http://tinyurl.com/cefxsux