Skyla Whitaker, 11, & Taylor Placker 13 - Found Murdered - #3

[KR2tonenow]

Fox News said that OSBI is going to come out with a new composite of the POI.

The spokesperson said all the witnesses are very much similar when describing him so I am now thinking more people saw him on that road somewhere. Maybe not at the same place but in the near area before the shootings or right after.

imoo

Good, thanks!

 

[poco]

Good, thanks!

For such a heavily travelled road and so many witnesses, you would think it would have been next to impossible to have shot anyone without it being seen...... too weird.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

From the AP June 15 - http://www.kwtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=6505751

WELEETKA, Okla. (AP) - Authorities want to clarify the length of the hair of a man considered as a person of interest in the fatal shootings of 2 young girls a week ago. Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation spokeswoman Jessica Brown said yesterday the agency had received many responses after releasing a sketch a day earlier. The possible witness was described as an American Indian male with a long ponytail, but Brown says investigators have received calls that the man's hair is shorter than previously described.

Both of the above men have short hair - have either been on the run long enough to grow their hair to any length? - do they look at all similar to the sketch from the witness?

Jessica Brown said his hair was down to his lower back. The people calling in were giving tips on men who had shorter pony tails. This means he has been growing his hair and wearing it long for several years. People would know him because of his long hair, but there are many other NA who wear their hair the same length. It is traditional not to cut your hair unless there is a death and has sparked many lawsuits. (One I know of involved a policeman here in Tulsa. Nice guy and he won his rights to grow out his hair, too.) By the way, it looks as tho the sketch shows some graying which is possible. Could be he is older than they think.

 

[KR2tonenow]

From the sketch it appears he is 40-50. There are lines around the eyes.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

It is rather hard to tell with Indians. They age beautifully.

This guy looks like he could be a crack head tho...so you never know. I guess a lot depends on how they live their lives. If there is some gray to his hair, I wish they would tell us that fact.

 

[KR2tonenow]

For such a heavily travelled road and so many witnesses, you would think it would have been next to impossible to have shot anyone without it being seen...... too weird.

I am having a hard time wrapping my head around this. I know it was a Sunday, quiet, rural. However, the fact the Grandparents "called numerous times", and the girls didn't call 911. It was prety close to the Placker home, there were multiple witnesses of a suspicious truck and person in the area, and they have yet to locate this .

Last night, we touched upon some intersting theories as to WHY the girls may possibly have been gunned down. I am still thinking along those lines.

I agree with the poster here, that Vicky or Linda could be the Bio parent. That would explain why, a/she was looking into the NA $ b/why it isn't a big deal why she isn't listed as a parent. As respect to the parents (Grandparents) who raised her, they are the parents.

 

[BhamMama]

However, it isn't the people are not deserving of their rights from the roles from their heritage. It is the citizens that are angry that such rights or roles would ever be given. They are angry at the people who are not Tribe, but marry and have babies then ask for full benefits.

Whoa, whoa, y'all are making HUGE assumptions about people you don't know.

When someone is researching rolls, it usually means any of the Rolls (like roll call, which is what it was) that were taken from the beginning of contact to the Dawes/Henderson/Armstrong Rolls that establishes a maternal native line.

Most tribes are through maternal lines. You have to prove that your line is unbroken. You then have to take a blood test called a Blood Quantum test. That test defines how White you are, not how Indian. If you don't make the cut off, then you don't get to join the tribe. The government requires the test, the tribe sets the blood amount cut off.

I'm not sure how many people you've talked to but NOBODY, except the radicals (no not AIM) that protest still about getting off our land, is that upset at the people joining. It's the GOVERNMENT that has imposed blood quantum that they are upset with. We think it's a form of genocide to keep people out of the tribe. In no other race do you have to prove how much by blood you are. You would be amazed at the number of Black Indians, Hispanic Indians and Anglo Indians that are defined by blood as plain old Indian. We have a saying, you can't be half or part of anything and if you say you are part Indian they will ask you what part...your toe?

There aren't that many tribes that have huge money. And of the ones that do, Casinos give the majority of the money, which means they earn it themselves and it wasn't given by the gov. If a certain tribe doesn't have a Casino you are looking at less money than someone would get for SS. IF they have reason to have monies given them. Seriously! No one is going to kill two little girls over tribe money. They def won't kill to keep them out of the tribe. Good Gravy! I mean really, you can earn more money at Wal-Mart than many tribes get per month.

I AM native, a card carrying, number having, lived on a Rez native. My children on the other hand, are not because I married a white man and they didn't make the cut off. And I have a full blood as a grandparent and two grandparents who are half of one tribe and half of another.

Before you make sweeping notions remember that there are over 500 different tribes in the U.S and this would be the FIRST ever killing by a native to keep someone out of a tribe...ever. Never mind the hundreds of thousands of others that have joined since enrollment has been open. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[philamena]

SNIP...parked sideways if it was blocking the way there. No wonder the witness didn't stop and just kept driving. I would have too. Why is his truck blocking the oncoming traffic?

Has it been confirmed that the truck was actually parked sideways? TIA

 

[Mouse]

To clarify, we do not have "reservations" in Oklahoma. The nearest Res where people would go is in the northern states. I can't remember if it is S. or N. Dakota.

We have tribal lands which unless you knew they where they were exactly...you could not tell the difference. In Tulsa, tribal lands house Casinos. It only means the land is owned by the tribe...so anywhere they buy land can be considered "tribal". Hope this clears up this misconception.

No, the nearest reservations are in New Mexico, which borders OK (albeit, just in a tiny bit in extreme northeast part of the state). I went to school not far from the Mescalero Apache Reservation, and the husband of my closest friend grew up on the Navajo Reservation. Most of the tribal lands in NM now identify as pueblos, but the BIA lists at least 3 self-identified "reservations."

 

[philamena]

Did the witness who drove by the truck, hear the gunshots?

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I know of plenty of full bloods who are dissatisfied with 1/32 on down getting allotments and being on the roll. The members of the Cherokee and in particular the Osage tribes DO get substantial checks. Not sure what Tribe you are associated with, but I know many who do not need to work because of the money provided to them. They are also given housing, medical care, and a free ride to college. The dissent within the Tribes is with the elders and yes...I guess you could call them radicals who are younger and feel their heritage is being stripped down because of marriages. They are concerned about future generations.

What you are referring to has nothing to do with what I am talking about here.

My SIL's father was a full blood. My BIL is a full blood. I was raised in a traditional Tribal community. I have heard this argument all of my life.

I would say this guy would be radical to kill these innocent, sweet girls! It isn't normal for NA to kill people...you are correct! I am simply saying the guy could be thinking this way tho. We don't know a motive here and I put this out as a possible motive. NOT that it is the way OTHER people would do anything.

 

[KR2tonenow]

Whoa, whoa, y'all are making HUGE assumptions about people you don't know.

Thank you for the clarification! We need someone representing NA, who can give us great insight into the mystery of the killing of these 2 young girls.

I have a little Cherokee myself, and huge respect for NA's.

The sketch is what we are working with and possible theories as to why this happened.

 

[cloudajo]

In the OSBI video they are further down the road. Which makes more sense given the description so far. So it appears that they were mapping several points along the road. Either location I could see would have been within eyeshot.

Yes. I agree. Interesting to watch them with equipment and measuring things.

 

[philamena]

Snowlover 77 post 475.
This post answered my above question.

The article says,"he was stopped on the road actually kind of blocking the way there, standing outside his pickup truck, doing something," and they couldn't tell what he was doing so they just kept driving. This is all a quote from the article on Fox. Jessica Brown is the one doing the quoting I think she is a spokesperson for the OSBI.

 

[cloudajo]

look at the mapquest link below. the red star "A" is the intersection of roads N3890 (county line road) & E 1130. the clearing just above & to the left of the star is taylor's house. there is a scale at the bottom right. you can click & drag up county line road to see where it crosses bad creek. i hope this helps.

i think you must change it to aerial image from streetmap
in the 1st frame the creek is a under the county names. click up 1 level & you'll have a better view of the bridge area

[URL="http://www.mapquest.com/maps/E1130+rd+%26+N3890+rd+weleetka+ok#a/maps/l::E1130+Rd+&+N3890+Rd:Weleetka:OK:74880:US:35.37688:-96.0875:intersection:Okmulgee+County/m:hyb:12:35.37688:-96.0875:0::/io:0:::::f:EN:M:/e"]http://www.mapquest.com/maps/E1130+rd+%26+N3890+rd+weleetka+ok#a/maps/l::E1130+Rd+&+N3890+Rd:Weleetka:OK:74880:US:35.37688:-96.0875:intersection:Okmulgee+County/m:hyb:12:35.37688:-96.0875:0::/io:0:::::f:EN:M:/e[/URL]

Yes, thanks very much. I realize that I was looking at a different area previously, because when I put in County Line Rd in google maps, it came up with a different road further south.

 

[pedinurse]

To clarify, we do not have "reservations" in Oklahoma. The nearest Res where people would go is in the northern states. I can't remember if it is S. or N. Dakota.

We have tribal lands which unless you knew they where they were exactly...you could not tell the difference. In Tulsa, tribal lands house Casinos. It only means the land is owned by the tribe...so anywhere they buy land can be considered "tribal". Hope this clears up this misconception.

well, not only casinos. some tribal lands are not built upon, or some tribal lands are used to build indian homes upon. but you're correct, most tribal lands have no designation (we don't have signs up that say "indian land!"). however, where i live and where i am from we have a number of native american graveyards and old tribal grounds that are designated by signs due to their historical status.
pedinurse...

 

[SeriouslySearching]

No, the nearest reservations are in New Mexico, which borders OK (albeit, just in a tiny bit in extreme northeast part of the state). I went to school not far from the Mescalero Apache Reservation, and the husband of my closest friend grew up on the Navajo Reservation. Most of the tribal lands in NM now identify as pueblos, but the BIA lists at least 3 self-identified "reservations."

I guess I am referring to the Tribe's Res that I am used to hearing about people going to live. Sorry. We have a large population of Osage and Cherokee here.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I wonder where they are on the investigation today and if they are any closer to finding this ?! We can debate all day long about other issues, but the real issue here is to find out who killed these children.

My youngest DD was coming back from TX recently and her radiator blew. She was sitting on the turnpike near the exit you would take to get to Weleetka for over 3 hours waiting for AAA to come tow her. If this had happened this week...I would be absolutely a basket case. (Not that I wasn't when it did happen because I was out of town and had no way to go get her!)

 

[OrdinaryLife]

Whoa, whoa, y'all are making HUGE assumptions about people you don't know.

When someone is researching rolls, it usually means any of the Rolls (like roll call, which is what it was) that were taken from the beginning of contact to the Dawes/Henderson/Armstrong Rolls that establishes a maternal native line.

Most tribes are through maternal lines. You have to prove that your line is unbroken. You then have to take a blood test called a Blood Quantum test. That test defines how White you are, not how Indian. If you don't make the cut off, then you don't get to join the tribe. The government requires the test, the tribe sets the blood amount cut off.

I'm not sure how many people you've talked to but NOBODY, except the radicals (no not AIM) that protest still about getting off our land, is that upset at the people joining. It's the GOVERNMENT that has imposed blood quantum that they are upset with. We think it's a form of genocide to keep people out of the tribe. In no other race do you have to prove how much by blood you are. You would be amazed at the number of Black Indians, Hispanic Indians and Anglo Indians that are defined by blood as plain old Indian. We have a saying, you can't be half or part of anything and if you say you are part Indian they will ask you what part...your toe?

There aren't that many tribes that have huge money. And of the ones that do, Casinos give the majority of the money, which means they earn it themselves and it wasn't given by the gov. If a certain tribe doesn't have a Casino you are looking at less money than someone would get for SS. IF they have reason to have monies given them. Seriously! No one is going to kill two little girls over tribe money. They def won't kill to keep them out of the tribe. Good Gravy! I mean really, you can earn more money at Wal-Mart than many tribes get per month.

I AM native, a card carrying, number having, lived on a Rez native. My children on the other hand, are not because I married a white man and they didn't make the cut off. And I have a full blood as a grandparent and two grandparents who are half of one tribe and half of another.

Before you make sweeping notions remember that there are over 500 different tribes in the U.S and this would be the FIRST ever killing by a native to keep someone out of a tribe...ever. Never mind the hundreds of thousands of others that have joined since enrollment has been open. It just doesn't make sense.

Thank you for clearing up any questions concerning Rolls, bloodlines, and tests. I truly appreciate it. I had no idea what is involved. It is good to hear it from a person who is deeply part of this world and culture. Many, as myself, have absolutely no clue.

Thank you. So very much. It is always good to be enlightened...

 

[BhamMama]

What you are referring to has nothing to do with what I am talking about here.

Blood Quantum and the Dawes/Henderson/Armstrong rolls have everything to do with finding numbers and her asking about her grandmother and roll numbers, esp if she was looking for enrollment. That wasn't brought up by me.

I belong to the Western Band of Cherokee and the Kiowa. And yes, many elders may be upset, over any number of things, but they def aren't so upset they'd kill anyone, or instruct others to kill.

I know a few who don't have to work...a tiny few out of 7,000. Many of them elder who draw other monies other than casino money and a few that draw monies because they are on boards and such. Most people, myself included, don't get those mega checks. We get a head rights check. It's certainly not enough to live on. And you have to apply for those school scholarships just like anyone else would, education is not a given. You get the benefit of health care from a substandard 'hospital' if you are lucky, a glorified nurses station if you are not, but you have to go to an Indian hospital to get them.

My point is, I doubt anyone would kill to keep two little girls, or their families out of a tribe as was stated in this thread. The entitlements they would receive don't add up to the action of killing. Mad or not, they'd not hunt down two little girls they don't know and kill them for those reasons. Not when you have adults and many breeds roaming around that are closer to you...and they wouldn't be random.

It was made out that someone was pissed because they might get a 500 dollar check, some grossly understaffed hospital care and other wonderful things the BIA promises...and that someone doesn't like that. As a theory it's full of holes. That's what I'm trying to point out.

I can see a thrill killing, a pedo that made contact, someone they knew that wanted to hurt the family for drugs etc. But tribal enrollment?