Sniff tests, hair decomp, really so conclusive? Fence sitters thread

[BeanE]

That would be true for an intentional murder but what if it was an accident?

I don't think that's true for intentional murder, Ladytazz. There are a plethora of cases of murder where a family member would have gladly taken the victim, but the perp killed them anyway. And not just murders that are crimes of passion (rage) either, but planned murders.

In fact, Casey's motive may have been just that - that her mother wanted to care for Caylee.

Also, looking at the other things going on, such as Casey telling a number of people that in a week, her parents were giving her their house and she would be taking over the payments, Casey's motive may been complete autonomy. That is, no parents as well as no child.

Cayley was stealing money from her parents, her grandparents, her friend, and who knows who else. Money could have been a motive. No child, fewer expenses.

 

[krimekat]

um, HN just showed the video of OCPD confirming DNA in the car's trunk -- replaying NG from Fri nite

 

[nnglas]

That's not what I read.
Orange County sheriff's deputies said Sunday they are not ready to confirm that missing Caylee Anthony is dead or that her body was in the trunk of her mother's car.
http://www.local6.com/news/17356214/detail.html


Unless they've made Cindy a deputy.

Excuse me you are right. However "sheriff's deputies" is a very general statement. However Sgt John Allen is very specific.

 

[pregodego2]

1 dog and possible human handler error.
2 dogs in the backyard, and did they find anything back there?

We don't know. Le doesn't offer everything in their hand right away, as we all know by now. Here's some food for thought:

1. The day the police were originally called, George was back there moving around the playhouse and looking under the slabs for any signs of "foul play" and Cindy was looking in the shed.

2. The dogs hit by the sandbox and it was later found out that Cindy had taken toys from the car and put them back in the sandbox.

It is VERY possible that either
a. caylee was buried back there then moved.
b. caylee's decomp dna or scent was on those toys from being in the car with her and caused hits.
c. George touched anything in that car that had decomp fluids on it and then went in the backyard and was touching the playhouse and the slabs - therefore transfering the scent.

here's some info: http://dogs.about.com/cs/searchandrescue/a/cadaver_dogs.htm






this site has great stuff! http://www.ilpwda.com/faqs.htm

So in a nutshell you are saying that dogs are correct 100% of the time? And the handlers have no room for human error?

Nope. That's why i didn't touch on your #1 - "dog and possible human handler error"

I just wanted to help you out with #2 - wether or not LE found anything in the backyard after the dogs hit back there. I was showing you that there may not have been anything to find back there, but instead it was transfered fluids and smell.

Hopefully they took tests of the dirt back there, does anyone know?

 

[LI_Mom]

That's not what I read.
Orange County sheriff's deputies said Sunday they are not ready to confirm that missing Caylee Anthony is dead or that her body was in the trunk of her mother's car.
http://www.local6.com/news/17356214/detail.html

Interestingly, they don't say "They CAN'T confirm" which I believe is what they were officially saying up until very recently.... now they say they "are not ready."

 

[JBean]

Excuse me you are right. However "sheriff's deputies" is a very general statement. However Sgt John Allen is very specific.

But to be fair, he also says:

Allen told the Orlando Sentinel Sunday night that the evidence suggests that the body in the back of the car was "likely to be Caylee." He would not disclose the type of evidence that was returned from the federal lab and would not confirm whether the child was dead

 

[AutomaticAuttie]

I found it! It was on the general caylee tread #158 I only copied her first post. There are more to back this one up from her.
Putrefaction aka decomposition:

Just did some research on this and found some interesting information. Main components are putrescine and cadaverine. These molecules are produced by decaying animals. Yes, you read that correctly, animals. Nothing that I found reports anything unique to human decomposition as compared to any other animal that is decomposing.

I have been thinking about the air test. Being a Bio/Chem major, I couldn't quite understand the importance or urgency of the air test, since to me an animal is an animal.

I see a problem here, at least until confirmed final forensics unrelated to air testing is received. What do you think?

 

[BeanE]

I consider having a 3 year old sleeping in the same bed as a man I am a "fun buddy" with mistreatment. IMO taking her to adult parties the same. I believe she very well could have been putting up a front for her friends. Ohh look Casey is such a great mom! people started seeing through this.

There are also more than one report in the 400 page document that Casey had Caylee sleep at those parties, while Casey used marijuana, drugs, and alcohol, thereby diminishing her ability to take proper care and responsibility with Caylee.

There's a report of Caylee having bruises.

No one has been able to determine who, if anyone, was caring for Caylee at times when Casey was known to be out partying, and her parents known not to be watching Caylee.

 

[MommaShark]

Well all it has been very stimulating conversation. Hope I did not offend anyone tonight. It has been nice to actually hear what everyone thinks. I myself will go to bed sitting on the fence. I know the chances don't look good for Caylee, but I still can not be 100%. So I will hold on to hope for one more night. And I thank all off you for your insight. Goodnight!

 

[DAWN TREADER]

After Tuesday, I expect we will hear more from LE. Much more.

 

[LI_Mom]

Just did some research on this and found some interesting information. Main components are putrescine and cadaverine. These molecules are produced by decaying animals. Yes, you read that correctly, animals. Nothing that I found reports anything unique to human decomposition as compared to any other animal that is decomposing.

I have been thinking about the air test. Being a Bio/Chem major, I couldn't quite understand the importance or urgency of the air test, since to me an animal is an animal.

MAIN COMPONENTS doesn't mean ALL components. Obviously there are far more factors considered.

Otherwise how would DOGS be able to distinguish between a dead human & a dead raccoon????

 

[JBean]

After Tuesday, I expect we will hear more from LE. Much more.

I agree DT. I think LE is trying to say it without saying it. That leads to understandable doubt and hopefully it will be cleared up to everyone's satisfaction.

 

[seagull65]

Seagull, do you think that the GP's would have taken custody of Caylee if Casey would have agreed? Or do you think that they wanted her to take responsibility for her daughter? Just curious about your thoughts on the family dynamics.

That's a good question. My impression is that they were pressuring Casey to move out but that Cindy was very unhappy when Casey took Caylee with her (judging from that post that Cindy put on her myspace or facebook), especially when she then didn't hear from them, no visits, etc. She wrote her post asking basically "why have you taken the baby away when I supported you during your pregnancy and raised and fed this baby with you" (I'm paraphrasing there, not exact quote.) I definitely think the grandparents would have taken Caylee, I think Casey was getting back at them a bit by saying, okay, if that's the way you want it, you can't have Caylee either, she and I are going to start our own life and have some bonding time together. Earlier in this case I even thought maybe Casey had had friends hide Caylee from the grandparents, either because (a) she was afraid they wanted custody or could win custody, or even (b) I wondered what if the child had had an accident like a black eye or broken arm, or anything like that, would Casey possibly have friends hide her until it could heal rather than face her parents with it... especially if there was any chance of a custody issue.

 

[nnglas]

I found it! It was on the general caylee tread #158 I only copied her first post. There are more to back this one up from her.
Putrefaction aka decomposition:

Just did some research on this and found some interesting information. Main components are putrescine and cadaverine. These molecules are produced by decaying animals. Yes, you read that correctly, animals. Nothing that I found reports anything unique to human decomposition as compared to any other animal that is decomposing.

I have been thinking about the air test. Being a Bio/Chem major, I couldn't quite understand the importance or urgency of the air test, since to me an animal is an animal.

I see a problem here, at least until confirmed final forensics unrelated to air testing is received. What do you think?

Honestly I don't put too much stock in the air test. As I don't know much about it. That being said, it seems this post indicates that there could have been a dead animal in the car. Who puts dead animals in their trunk? And why has nobody said, hey we had a dead animal in the car. I mean really.

 

[AutomaticAuttie]

MAIN COMPONENTS doesn't mean ALL components. Obviously there are far more factors considered.

Otherwise how would DOGS be able to distinguish between a dead human & a dead raccoon????

I sure that was covered over there #158 I did want to cut and paste all of them.

 

[krimekat]

hey, there is OCPD on Headline News again, supporting the decomp evidence in the trunk . . .

 

[CHICANA]

Excuse me you are right. However "sheriff's deputies" is a very general statement. However Sgt John Allen is very specific.

Before Sgt Allen ever made a statement "indicating" Caylee's body was in the trunk, there were quite a few articles that referred to "inside sources" saying Caylee was dead.
Let's see what they say tomorrow.

 

[Pondering Mind]

That's a good question. My impression is that they were pressuring Casey to move out but that Cindy was very unhappy when Casey took Caylee with her (judging from that post that Cindy put on her myspace or facebook), especially when she then didn't hear from them, no visits, etc. She wrote her post asking basically "why have you taken the baby away when I supported you during your pregnancy and raised and fed this baby with you" (I'm paraphrasing there, not exact quote.) I definitely think the grandparents would have taken Caylee, I think Casey was getting back at them a bit by saying, okay, if that's the way you want it, you can't have Caylee either, she and I are going to start our own life and have some bonding time together. Earlier in this case I even thought maybe Casey had had friends hide Caylee from the grandparents, either because (a) she was afraid they wanted custody or could win custody, or even (b) I wondered what if the child had had an accident like a black eye or broken arm, or anything like that, would Casey possibly have friends hide her until it could heal rather than face her parents with it... especially if there was any chance of a custody issue.

I had hoped that in the beginning too. Just Casey being obstinate, I have a 23 y/o son who I love dearly, but he knows how to push my buttons! (we are alot alike actually) But do you think that the GP thought Casey would move out with Caylee?

 

[LI_Mom]

I sure that was covered over there #158 I did want to cut and paste all of them.

I wasn't really buying the argument the first time. lol


I still say, I think this air test will make it's premier in American Courts during the Casey Anthony trial.

The scientists will present their data & their knowledge & a jury will decide whether they think it has merit. Just like DNA Evidence had a first trial... so will this new technology.

 

[AutomaticAuttie]

MAIN COMPONENTS doesn't mean ALL components. Obviously there are far more factors considered.

Otherwise how would DOGS be able to distinguish between a dead human & a dead raccoon????

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2591421&postcount=496

start here and read on.