Sniff tests, hair decomp, really so conclusive? Fence sitters thread

[CHICANA]

When LE is stating from their own mouths what FBI tests confirm - it's FACT.

Then it changes the next day.
I'm waiting to see if that's confirmed by any other new's sources.

I'm not saying she's dead or alive, I'm just not convinced they have what they're "indicating" they have.

 

[jbar]

I'm waiting to see if that's confirmed by any other new's sources.

It's been confirmed by ALL news sources, other than local6. The other news sources named the deputy giving the comment and put him on video. Local6 did not name any officer.

 

[jbar]

http://www.wesh.com/news/17353349/detail.html

ORLANDO, Fla. -- The Orange Sheriff’s Office said again Monday that “there is a strong probability” that Caylee Anthony is dead, noting that investigators have “additional evidence that has not been made public.”

 

[Theonly1]

Does anyone know when Lee moved out?

I'm wondering if Casey started to spiral out of control only after she didn't have someone in the house who could take her 'side.' Did she change when she became the 'only child' in the family.... did she become more & more manipulative & demanding without someone else to balance things out?

Did she LIKE being the only child & then start to resent Caylee for taking her place?

It's obvious Cindy is a controlling person.... not that this makes her BAD.... just that she's headstrong & seems to be rather unbending once she's made up her mind (in some ways she reminds me of my mom)..... I bet there was a lot of conflict with her daughter once she hit the teen years.

I still want to know more about Casey's behavior BEFORE she had Caylee. Was she just a typical teenager who maybe had a little rougher time than the average teenager growing up... or was she ALWAYS showing signs of abnormal behaviors?


I find it very odd that Casey had NO history of counseling that we've heard of yet... Cindy's a nurse.... IF as a child Casey was having serious problems, I can't see her NOT taking steps to get her help. Cindy took good care of Caylee, I'm sure she took good care of HER children's needs also.

If Casey's abnormal behavior problems started AFTER Caylee's birth, I can definitely see Cindy being befuddled & not knowing how to force her (as an adult) into counseling & being afraid to alienate her & make a bad problem worse.


Man! What a mess.

I think when Cindy took to the Internet on July 3rd, CREATED herself a myspace and posted her message that she was telling it like it was. Cindy, if I am correct, references JEALOUSY as the reason Caylee was taken away--mentions jealousy twice.
For whatever reason, Casey was jealous of Caylee, or at least jealous of Caylee's relationship with Cindy.

 

[cjcord]

I'm sorry, but this link: http://www.wesh.com/video/17354638/index.html at about 1:38 in, tells me all i need to know. That's FROM THEIR MOUTH, and it's good enough for me.

 

[sweetmop]

Some people still like to wait for official confirmation instead of indications and beliefs before stating something as fact.

If it were fact I think we'd see murder charges right now.

The offer of immunity is still on the table until 9am tomorrow.
After that, well I think the process will start rolling.

 

[cjcord]

Are the facts for #1 and #2 in the discovery docs? If so, I think I might be missing a few pages! Also, like you mentioned, if Cindy took toys (reeking of decomp) and took them from the car to the sandbox them the dogs would hit on the sandbox!!!
T

Fact #1 was indeed in the disc docs, LE asked to check the backyard and George allowed it, stating they had checked the playhouse and other areas for foul play. (that's when the depression was found near the pool- George agreed it was odd) #2...I cannot recall, but it does not sound familiar to me.

 

[Theonly1]

Yep, Casey is one fine example of a responsible parent!
She made the right choice when she moved out of the home her parents provided for her and her daughter. This is a much better environment to be raising a child in, dont you think?

Notice the extra body on the floor?
WHERE IS CAYLEE!!!!!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/equalizeyou/2718633865

With all due respect, I don't think that is a picture of Casey in the bed (I could be wrong). Further, if partying after beer pong, or whatever these teens were doing, I would rather them crash on the floor that drive around Orlando.
T

 

[SUR]

And the contents of the stain was precisely the lining of the nose and mouth (as reported).
T

"reported" where?

 

[CHICANA]

http://www.wesh.com/news/17353349/detail.html

“If any evidence to the contrary is provided, it will be vigorously pursued,” the statement from Capt. Angelo Nieves said.

How can there be evidence to the contrary ? Dead is dead. The only thing that contradicts dead is alive.

 

[CHICANA]

Sources also confirmed that a stain in the trunk was not what clinched the decision that Caylee was in the trunk, but it was the strands of hair that investigators suspected all along were Caylee's.

http://www.wesh.com/news/17353349/detail.html

Does that mean the stain wasn't decomp and this confirmation is based on air and hair ??
I don't think hair causes decomp odors. This isn't the DNA evidence I was waiting for.
If the air showed there was decomp there has to be a source. Something has to cause the odor in the car for it to be conclusive. It's been almost 2 months, if there's something conclusive they would have it by now.

 

[Theonly1]

"reported" where?

On one of the local news broadcasts (not recent). I will try and locate it assuming it has been uploaded somewhere (but it may take awhile). The technical terms for nose and mouth lining was used and I thought "Hmm, cells from the nose and mouth" and then the broadcaster then said, "from the nose and mouth"...that's why I remember the information.
T

 

[impatientredhead]

Sources also confirmed that a stain in the trunk was not what clinched the decision that Caylee was in the trunk, but it was the strands of hair that investigators suspected all along were Caylee's.

http://www.wesh.com/news/17353349/detail.html

Does that mean the stain wasn't decomp and this confirmation is based on air and hair ??
I don't think hair causes decomp odors. This isn't the DNA evidence I was waiting for.
If the air showed there was decomp there has to be a source. Something has to cause the odor in the car for it to be conclusive. It's been almost 2 months, if there's something conclusive they would have it by now.

The smell in the car is from the gases the body releases during breakdown. You can research it but most of the gases are heavier than oxygen molecules and permeate and cling to everything around them. That is why you cannot get rid of the smell where a body has been without getting rid of most permeable surfaces.

The stain, which I believe they have said was blood, would not show whether it came from a dead body or not as the blood would begin to breakdown on its own regardless of its source.

 

[Shavaun]

ORLANDO, Fla. -- The Orange Sheriff’s Office said again Monday that “there is a strong probability” that Caylee Anthony is dead, noting that investigators have “additional evidence that has not been made public.”


The statement came a day after investigators for the first time on the record acknowledged that recent FBI lab tests indicated that Caylee Anthony's body was in her mother's trunk and that the child is dead.

Officials did not say what additional evidence they have, saying the investigation is ongoing.


http://www.wesh.com/news/17353349/detail.html

 

[DAWN TREADER]

Casey is truly at the crossroads. She's already looking at a sentence of up to 17 years if convicted on the current charges. That's no small consequence but not nearly big enough in my eyes given the 31 days Caylee was missing without anyone knowing except her mother who still hasn't told LE what they need to know in order to find Caylee.

Will Casey take the State's deal? Personally, I'd be surprised if she did.

 

[JBean]

ORLANDO, Fla. -- The Orange Sheriff’s Office said again Monday that “there is a strong probability” that Caylee Anthony is dead, noting that investigators have “additional evidence that has not been made public.”


The statement came a day after investigators for the first time on the record acknowledged that recent FBI lab tests indicated that Caylee Anthony's body was in her mother's trunk and that the child is dead.

Officials did not say what additional evidence they have, saying the investigation is ongoing.


http://www.wesh.com/news/17353349/detail.html

I wonder if someone got their hand smacked for confirming and that is why they seem to be backpedaling somewhat. I am not implying that the test results are not positive for Caylee, but rather Allen revealed it prematurely.

 

[tabbykiki]

I just have to say this thread reminds me of the Laci Peterson case. There were a few folks out there that didn't want to believe she was killed and that her "perfect husband" did it. That is, until the bodies washed up. It didn't matter about any of the circumstantial evidence, etc. they just wouldn't believe it. Then, they wouldn't believe Scott did it. It was devil worshipers or some other stupid theory.

This case has a lot of the same parallels. Here we have the "perfect girlfriend" whom her mom calls a psychopath to a friend. The FBI / LE have said the tests show decomp and it's Caylee's DNA.

It doesn't matter to some of these "fence sitters". They won't ever believe it until little Caylee is found. If and when that ever happens, we'll have a few come out and say there was no way Casey did it. I guess she's too pretty or something. Or they will say that it was an accident.

Why on earth is it so hard to believe that this woman killed her daughter intentionally? The facts we know point to this. It's a horrible world, but there have been cases where mothers kill their children. It happens. Why people can't come to the realization that's probably what happened here and Caylee is dead is beyond me. :waitasec:

 

[jbar]

I wonder if someone got their hand smacked for confirming and that is why they seem to be backpedaling somewhat. I am not implying that the test results are not positive for Caylee, but rather Allen revealed it prematurely.

I think you are reading that different than I am. I don't see the implication that anyone had their "hand smacked" or that anythign was revealed prematurely. I don't see any sort of backpeddle.

I see the same statement they were making yesterday. They are not going to speak in 100% absolutes without a confession or body. There is a deal on the table - and they still want BOTH a confession AND a body.

I think some may be dissecting and picking apart the words used a bit too much. For them to state ANYTHING with 100% certainity, it could damage the prosecution and JB would have means to ask for a different venue. You will only see the trial lawyer/prosecutor doing so during the actual trials - not LE during an on going investigation. Tests confirming death, decomposition, etc does NOT mean they are done and ready for trial.

They have to hold some of their cards, they are still waiting for/working on a confession... if they point the finger with absolutes, they will seriously damage that. You have to listen to what LE IS saying... it seems that some here want it all right away. That's not the way and investigation, and prep for trial will work. They really don't have to tell us anything.

JMO

 

[impatientredhead]

Casey is truly at the crossroads. She's already looking at a sentence of up to 17 years if convicted on the current charges. That's no small consequence but not nearly big enough in my eyes given the 31 days Caylee was missing without anyone knowing except her mother who still hasn't told LE what they need to know in order to find Caylee.

Will Casey take the State's deal? Personally, I'd be surprised if she did.

The limited offer requires her to produce Caylee.

She either can't because the body is in a landfill and she can't lead them to her or leading her to them would give them forensic evidence that she intentionally killed her child. This "deal" has been out there since late July, she has no interest in it and appears to be willing to play the odds that they either can't charge her, or that she might be able to beat it in court. And she might.

I think we will see an indictment tomorrow after the offer officially expires.

Without a body they will have to use motive and behaviour afterwards to show intent, but in most cases without a body they show intent by motive, they have to. In the Laci Peterson case they had the bodies and cause of death was undetermined, still got murder one based largely on his behaviour after the fact. He was clearly moving on with his life, had told Amber his wife was deceased before she was. Casey's friends have said she didn't want to keep Caylee, that her life would be easier without a child, they can easily show that Casey was tied to her controlling mother because of the child and Casey wanted out (She also seemed to want moms house- she may have wished she could get rid of them all).

 

[SleuthyGal]

I just have to say this thread reminds me of the Laci Peterson case. There were a few folks out there that didn't want to believe she was killed and that her "perfect husband" did it. That is, until the bodies washed up. It didn't matter about any of the circumstantial evidence, etc. they just wouldn't believe it. Then, they wouldn't believe Scott did it. It was devil worshipers or some other stupid theory.

This case has a lot of the same parallels. Here we have the "perfect girlfriend" whom her mom calls a psychopath to a friend. The FBI / LE have said the tests show decomp and it's Caylee's DNA.

It doesn't matter to some of these "fence sitters". They won't ever believe it until little Caylee is found. If and when that ever happens, we'll have a few come out and say there was no way Casey did it. I guess she's too pretty or something. Or they will say that it was an accident.

Why on earth is it so hard to believe that this woman killed her daughter intentionally? The facts we know point to this. It's a horrible world, but there have been cases where mothers kill their children. It happens. Why people can't come to the realization that's probably what happened here and Caylee is dead is beyond me. :waitasec:

:clap: :clap: :clap:

yes, thank you for articulating exactly what's in my head. There are some who will never believe Caylee is really deceased unless her little lifeless body is placed at their feet. They might even question how people can determine that a lifeless body is 'really' dead afterall. There's hope and there's denial, and then there's this whole other level of denial that heads into outer space, not just a river in Egypt.

Caylee is dead and has been dead since June sometime. She just is. No other body was in that car trunk; no one at the tow yard put a body in the trunk; the fluids, hair, DNA, smell, air test all confirm a death AND tests show it WAS Casey....even if that thought is horrible and untenable for many. It is her. And playing mental/emotional games like "well the sheriff didn't come to me PERSONALLY and tell me himself" doesn't change the reality of the situation.

I'm sorry, but Caylee is deceased. She was never kidnapped.