Sniff tests, hair decomp, really so conclusive? Fence sitters thread

[Chezhire]

Do you still believe in Santa Claus too? I could discount the body farm saying they was a dead body in the car. I could discount the FBI saying there was DNA evidence saying Caylee's hair was in the trunk and it came from a dead person. I could discount the mother not telling anyone her daughter was missing for 31 days. I could discount the dogs hitting on the trunk. I could discount the mother saying a person that cannot be found to have existed took her baby. I could discount that her saying she told 2 other people about her missing in those 31 days even if one denies it and the other doesn't exist. I could discount a lot of things. BUT IN THE SAME CASE? I want her to be alive, too. I also want the tooth fairy to come and leave me money when I put my tooth under the pillow, but that isn't going to happen. Are the Anthony's posting here?

ouch. although I am sadly in agreement with many other WSers (after several weeks of playing the devil's advocate about this precise issue,) I do applaud those with different opinions than I and so I personally find the above post was a little too sarcastic.

 

[LI_Mom]

thanks for this, is this a coloration band within the shaft of the hair or something to do with the follicle around the root of the hair? Was this part of the leak from the University of Tennessee that did some of the forensics? thanks for any link to this information. I heard one expert on TV saying that you can't tell the difference, that hair that the person lost while alive would appear the same as hair that decomposed with the body and then became detached. But I don't know who that expert was.

If Casey is charged with murder I imagine we'll be hearing experts on both sides.

I can't remember what he said specifically.... all I remember was something about a "band" near the root of the hair that (and I think he might have said SOMETIMES) forms after a person dies.

It must be some kind of chemical reaction or something.

It seems to be a fairly new science & I'm sure we'll hear experts from both sides weigh in on the issue.

Like the 'sniff tests'.... also a very new science & I don't even know whether this has ever been presented to a jury yet. The body farm has isolated all the different particles that are released as a body decomposes & I suppose when they test air samples they look for all the various particles.

IIRC, they started testing this so they can build a machine that recreates what a cadaver dog smells. (And we thought only humans are losing jobs to machines?! lol)


Let's not forget that it wasn't THAT long ago that DNA testing was a brand new science & people said it would never hold up in courts.

Technology is growing by leaps & bounds & I'm sure forensics evidence will hold many great surprises for us in the future.


In any event, I think this will be a very interesting trial for the new science that might be introduced.

 

[krimekat]

HMMMM dugs make you do strange things.

Drugs are bad!!!

 

[librarian_mama]

that part of the character assassination has irked me throughout this case, too. Even if she worked as a stripper, or pole dancer, or prostitute, that would have nothing to do with being a murderer.

It's possible she thought or knew Caylee was with someone safe at the time, it's possible she's so confused and disintegrated that she forgets what's going on, it's possible she's in shock and doesn't really understand that Caylee is gone. I can't tell yet. She definitely mixes dates up completely, she said the 9th was the last she saw Caylee but Caylee was definitely fine until the 15th at least.

Do you think she may have accidently had a lobotomy?

 

[Ladytazz]

Do you have a theory of where Caylee is, or why Casey, if she's innocent, isn't telling the truth about where she last saw her?

I wonder what you thought of the phonecall between Casey and Cindy when Casey was first in jail. Did you hear Casey's indifference toward her her mother, her brother, and her friend? She had an eye-rolling attitude at their fear and grief, and just wanted her boyfriend's phone number. She never mentioned Caylee except to whine when asked about her.

I'm trying to be open-minded and am curious what you think of these questions.

Another thing, don't you think there are $225,000.00 reasons for whoever had her bring her back? There have been no credible leads to finding this child. For $225,000.00 I would turn in my mother.

 

[MommaShark]

1) WESH-Channel 2 trumpeted that it had broken the news. Anchor Amanda Ober said, "For the first time, Orange County investigators go on the record: They tell WESH2 that recent FBI lab tests indicated Caylee Anthony's body was in her mother's trunk and that the child is dead. It's a story our Bob Kealing broke on WESH.com this afternoon."

2) WFTV-Channel 9 on Wednesday reported that the child was dead. WFTV promoted that coverage in an early evening newscast Sunday. WFTV also offered Allen on camera saying, "There was a dead body in the trunk of Casey's car and that body was Caylee."

3) WOFL-Channel 35 reported that Sgt. Allen would say, off camera, that the evidence suggests Caylee's dead body was in the car.

So, three Orlando stations apparently have LE confirming forensics . . . I but video is on their sites.

Have looked all I can find are the reports.

 

[Shermie]

A person on a different site said they had smelled a dead body and that they really couldn't tell the difference between it and a dead animal.

What's your point?

 

[Chezhire]

Oh yes, I did read it. Her "lies" weren't coherent enough to me to even quite be lies. That, plus the thing about the seizure, plus the very bizarre and detached behavior ever since, plus now the bizarre letter to the young girl where Casey sounds so regressed it's more like she's a 12 year old herself, all of these things make me wonder whether Casey is in shock or is having some other medical or mental issue. Either that or she really is afraid of retribution if she tells who has Caylee or whatever. Of course it's possible that Caylee isn't alive and Casey knows what happened. That's only one of many possibilities at this point, though. My opinion only

...together with the possibility that all of what you just mentioned could very well become the platform for the defense counsel to set up a diminished capacity/other similar defense.

 

[pregodego2]

1 dog and possible human handler error.
2 dogs in the backyard, and did they find anything back there?

We don't know. Le doesn't offer everything in their hand right away, as we all know by now. Here's some food for thought:

1. The day the police were originally called, George was back there moving around the playhouse and looking under the slabs for any signs of "foul play" and Cindy was looking in the shed.

2. The dogs hit by the sandbox and it was later found out that Cindy had taken toys from the car and put them back in the sandbox.

It is VERY possible that either
a. caylee was buried back there then moved.
b. caylee's decomp dna or scent was on those toys from being in the car with her and caused hits.
c. George touched anything in that car that had decomp fluids on it and then went in the backyard and was touching the playhouse and the slabs - therefore transfering the scent.

here's some info: http://dogs.about.com/cs/searchandrescue/a/cadaver_dogs.htm

Cadaver Dogs are trained to locate and follow the scent of decomposing human flesh. Not a pretty thought, but their job is vital to both families of the victims, and to a justice system that ofttimes needs a body to prove a crime. These dogs work both on and off leash and are trained to detect the scent of decomposition that rises from the soil, same principle as when a dog knows where he last buried his bone.

Dogs must be trained as trailing dogs and air-scenting dogs. Trailing dogs follow a scent that has fallen on the ground. These dogs can pick out a human, or in the case of Cadaver dogs, a decomposing human's scent that was carried on a breeze, or "fallen" from a person carrying a body to it's location. Air-scenting is similar to trailing, but an air-scenting dog must be able to pick the scent out of a breeze and follow it to the source.

this site has great stuff! http://www.ilpwda.com/faqs.htm

The term "decomposition dog" better describes how dogs will indicate decomp human scent which includes blood, feces, urine or other material with human scent on it.

Is evidence searching the same as forensic evidence?

Terminology gets confusing, people use different words to mean the same thing or the same word to mean different things. We define evidence searching as an article with live human scent on it. Forensic evidence searching can be cadaver, decomposing human scent, or any body fluids from a deceased person. These scents can be on an article, the actual body, in the ground or residual. The main point is a forensic evidence dog is never looking for live scent.

 

[MommaShark]

Drugs are bad!!!

Mkay. Hey funny thought the teacher from southpark that said that wasn't his name Mr. Garrison? lol too funny. Where did that guy go by the way? He is a strange one.

 

[seagull65]

stealing is definitely serious, I'm not arguing that. I once knew someone who had a nervous breakdown during her first year of college. She stole and ran up an enormous debt on her mother's credit card. She was charged with grand larceny. Luckily she was able to return most of it immediately, she got the treatment she needed and eventually paid the rest, I think her family also helped her a bit when they realized the state she was in. This was 20 years ago, she never had any problems after that.

 

[AutomaticAuttie]

If mtDNA testing was done how could they tell between CA and Caylee's hair?

 

[LiveLoveLaughLiza]

Do you think she may have accidently had a lobotomy?

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Thank you librarian mama, I need that.:blowkiss:

 

[Gram2]

Deputies Not Ready to Confirm that Caylee is Dead
http://www.local6.com/news/17356214/detail.html

 

[MommaShark]

Deputies Not Ready to Confirm that Caylee is Dead
http://www.local6.com/news/17356214/detail.html

Nice update. Thanks been to busy here the last hour.

 

[krimekat]

HMMMM dugs make you do strange things.

Mkay. Hey funny thought the teacher from southpark that said that wasn't his name Mr. Garrison? lol too funny. Where did that guy go by the way? He is a strange one.

Who's that? Anthony's spokesperson who hasn't been speaking . . .

tee frickin' hee

 

[Rlaub44]

Oppinions are like a$$h0le$ we all have them.

It is true that we are entitled to our own opinion, but how we process scientific fact is not a matter of opinion. While I haven't seen the video of LE stating the DNA results, I believe the media when they report information quoting a police source, by name, in his own words.

I really find it admirable that so many people are holding on to the hope that Caylee is still alive, but it is hard for me to understand going to the lengths of disbelieving the wealth of information put together; i.e., the cadaver dogs, the air test from the Body Farm, several witnesses smelling decomosition, and finally DNA results matching little Caylee post-mortem. Add to that the fact that Caylee has been missing for all these weeks and the picture is, unfortunately, all too clear for me.

As to who is responsible, that is for another post, but again, the totality of the evidence again, to me, speaks volumes. And that is just my opinion.

 

[jd_martin]

stealing is definitely serious, I'm not arguing that. I once knew someone who had a nervous breakdown during her first year of college. She stole and ran up an enormous debt on her mother's credit card. She was charged with grand larceny. Luckily she was able to return most of it immediately, she got the treatment she needed and eventually paid the rest, I think her family also helped her a bit when they realized the state she was in. This was 20 years ago, she never had any problems after that.

Think its possible she learned her lesson? I know i have done crazy things in my life. And when i got caught and realized the consequences i straightened up real fast. I guess what im trying to say is Casey has a history of this crap. This isnt just a one time thing because she was sad.

 

[MommaShark]

It is true that we are entitled to our own opinion, but how we process scientific fact is not a matter of opinion. While I haven't seen the video of LE stating the DNA results, I believe the media when they report information quoting a police source, by name, in his own words.

I really find it admirable that so many people are holding on to the hope that Caylee is still alive, but it is hard for me to understand going to the lengths of disbelieving the wealth of information put together; i.e., the cadaver dogs, the air test from the Body Farm, several witnesses smelling decomosition, and finally DNA results matching little Caylee post-mortem. Add to that the fact that Caylee has been missing for all these weeks and the picture is, unfortunately, all too clear for me.

As to who is responsible, that is for another post, but again, the totality of the evidence again, to me, speaks volumes. And that is just my opinion.

Well maybe you should check local 6's latest update.

 

[McDonough]

Yes--it was beyond description, and even though I had never smelled it before, there was no question what it was.

Hubby said the same thing. While in mortuary school he spent a few months embalming bodies at the Cook County morgue in Chicago, there he had his first encounter with hard core human decomposition. There were days that just being in a well ventilated room with one of these decomposed bodies made him want to throw away all of the clothes he was wearing as soon as he was finished with his duties - the smell lingers with you for a long time.

I also asked him about the car, why the smell of decomposition was there after the body had been removed. He said that when a body has been in a small enclosed space, especially in the extreme heat of a Florida summer day, the smell of decomposition will permeate any porpos surface and will linger for a very very long time after the body has been removed. Depending on how extreme the conditions are, there are times when removing the decomp smell would be absolutely impossible.