Socks? Was Jon Benet wearing them?

[otg]

I never really put too much credence into there being a bare footprint of JB in the WC. For one, that would be too big too ignore, and there wasn't much said about it "officially". Hard to be ONE print, also, She'd have to be standing on TWO feet. I don't feel she was alive in the WC that night. I think she was killed elsewhere (probably in the basement, near the WC) and placed in there after she died, the white blanket being put down first (and the pink nightie or whatever the pink fabric is) being attached by static cling and in the dark, not seen by whoever put JB in that room.
I feel that way because of JR's comment about the pink nightie to LE when shown a crime photo of the WC: he said "that wasn't supposed to be there".
Right. Like the dead child in the white blanket WAS supposed to be there (because he put her there).

Boy, DD, again, you nailed it.

Hard for there to be a single footprint (unless there was only one area of mold on the floor showing imprints). But, like you, I believe she died outside that room in the hallway near the WC. But any lead is worth pursuing until we can discount it, as in this instance about the footprint, with the mistaken increment marks on the scale in the photo.

Meanwhile, we'll just have to "keep plodding along".:innocent:
.

 

[Steely]

I never really put too much credence into there being a bare footprint of JB in the WC. For one, that would be too big too ignore, and there wasn't much said about it "officially". Hard to be ONE print, also, She'd have to be standing on TWO feet. I don't feel she was alive in the WC that night. I think she was killed elsewhere (probably in the basement, near the WC) and placed in there after she died, the white blanket being put down first (and the pink nightie or whatever the pink fabric is) being attached by static cling and in the dark, not seen by whoever put JB in that room.
I feel that way because of JR's comment about the pink nightie to LE when shown a crime photo of the WC: he said "that wasn't supposed to be there".
Right. Like the dead child in the white blanket WAS supposed to be there (because he put her there).

That also made me wonder if BR snuck down there and took that nightie and her favorite Barbie. That seems like something a little boy would do for his baby sister.

 

[Steely]

When I turned my laptop and looked at this photo so the left side of the photo is at the top of my screen...
http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/art/extra/ramsey/img041.jpg

I think it looks like it could be a picture of something like this:
http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/art/extra/ramsey/thm/img072.html
with a smudge into the print of it on one side.

The measurements aren't right thought...what about something else? Like a flashlight that was on the ground and when it was grabbed it was held down at one point while the end was shifted to the right as it was picked up and then the print was smudged?

 

[belimom]

...(snipped)...

If you read further in the link to pbworks.com, it says:

Internet poster Braveheart has suggested that this "print" really is of a carabiner. Internet poster Mikie has posted a photo comparison of the "footprint" (showing that it has straight sides) and a "ladder hook" which is similar to a carabiner in shape; he also has shown that a bottle opener may have been attached.
​

So what is a carabiner?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carabiner

If you’d like to see how they are used, here is a video:
http://www.ehow.com/video_2353766_use-carabiners-rock-climbing.html

So, if that is a photo of the outline of a carabiner that was laying on the basement floor, it is an indication of rock-climbing equipment having been down there in the basement. ...(snipped)...

BBM

I think alot of folks use caribiners for other purposes as well. For example, DH uses one for his keys. I wonder if someone had been in there with a set of keys. I only bounce in and out of this case, but those of you more dedicated may remember: were any of the indoor or basement doors locked? Or, I wonder if someone who may have had keys to the home... I still think RDI, and a Ramsey who was in the home at that time... but there is another Ramsey I'm thinking of that could possibly enter the picture. Again, you guys know much more than I do so please comment if that would be possible or not.

And hats off to all of you - the dedication and immense knowledge base housed in your heads, on your computers, etc - about the details of this case.

 

[txsvicki]

If there was an intruder who knew the family and possibly had JonBenet tricked into thinking that she was going to meet Santa and spend the night at the north pole she could have taken her own blanket down and possibly her nightie. She probably would have put on shoes and a jacket though.

 

[UKGuy]

If there was an intruder who knew the family and possibly had JonBenet tricked into thinking that she was going to meet Santa and spend the night at the north pole she could have taken her own blanket down and possibly her nightie. She probably would have put on shoes and a jacket though.

txsvicki,

Maybe it was her who used the flashlight? Any thoughts on who might have been molesting her?


.

 

[DeeDee249]

That also made me wonder if BR snuck down there and took that nightie and her favorite Barbie. That seems like something a little boy would do for his baby sister.

Ever have kids that age? I did. A boy like BR at the time would not be doing something like that, especially if he'd killed her. Actually it sounds like something a mother (who just killed her child or knew who did) would do. I think I can safely say that JB did not bring those things into the WC with her, as I don't believe she was alive in there. These two items (the nightie and doll, if in fact those 2 items were there in the WC) specifically, remind me of the ancient practices of putting things the deceased would "need" or want with them in the afterlife. The Rs were seen to do just this at JB's funeral, putting a stuffed cat (Sister Socks) in the coffin with her. And inexplicably, JR chose to put a scarf in there with his strangled daughter. To me this is very suspicious. Not the act of putting things in a coffin with a loved one (many people do this). But putting a scarf that had no connection to JB is very strange. It wasn't HERS and it wasn't a gift to JR FROM her. It was allegedly a scarf that JR received as a gift. Were I the father of a strangled little girl, I can thing of far more sentimental or meaningful things to put with her for eternity than a random scarf I got as a gift that year.
To me, it may have been a way of hiding evidence. I'd love to have seen that scarf tested for forensic evidence. Too late now.

 

[Toltec]

Ever have kids that age? I did. A boy like BR at the time would not be doing something like that, especially if he'd killed her. Actually it sounds like something a mother (who just killed her child or knew who did) would do. I think I can safely say that JB did not bring those things into the WC with her, as I don't believe she was alive in there. These two items (the nightie and doll, if in fact those 2 items were there in the WC) specifically, remind me of the ancient practices of putting things the deceased would "need" or want with them in the afterlife. The Rs were seen to do just this at JB's funeral, putting a stuffed cat (Sister Socks) in the coffin with her. And inexplicably, JR chose to put a scarf in there with his strangled daughter. To me this is very suspicious. Not the act of putting things in a coffin with a loved one (many people do this). But putting a scarf that had no connection to JB is very strange. It wasn't HERS and it wasn't a gift to JR FROM her. It was allegedly a scarf that JR received as a gift. Were I the father of a strangled little girl, I can thing of far more sentimental or meaningful things to put with her for eternity than a random scarf I got as a gift that year.
To me, it may have been a way of hiding evidence. I'd love to have seen that scarf tested for forensic evidence. Too late now.

Exactly...what boy would think to do something like place "favorite items" next to his sisters body. It's bad enough the boy was strange...aloof most times. Would Burke know the barbie nightgown was her favorite? What about the barbie doll? If it were Burke, he probably would have placed Sister Socks.

I never fully understood the scarf thing...is this guy for real? He and Burke are both strange if u ask me.

Patsy is the person who placed those items. She was the super-religious zealot who waved her arms in the air, who wanted Jesus to raise JonBenet, who wore a ten pound cross on her neck...

 

[Steely]

Ever have kids that age? I did. A boy like BR at the time would not be doing something like that, especially if he'd killed her. .

What if it was an accident or he was TOLD it had been an accident? Don't you think it was odd he wasn't crying "where's JB?", "where's my sister?" I do. He just grabbed his new Nintendo game and left to go to the Whites? That house was set up so those kids could do a lot of things their parents wouldn't know about. I think it is POSSIBLE.

 

[Steely]

Exactly...what boy would think to do something like place "favorite items" next to his sisters body. It's bad enough the boy was strange...aloof most times. Would Burke know the barbie nightgown was her favorite? What about the barbie doll? If it were Burke, he probably would have placed Sister Socks.

I never fully understood the scarf thing...is this guy for real? He and Burke are both strange if u ask me.

Patsy is the person who placed those items. She was the super-religious zealot who waved her arms in the air, who wanted Jesus to raise JonBenet, who wore a ten pound cross on her neck...

I think it is more likely the nightgown was on the blanket due to static cling but we don't know for sure. If that was her favorite blanket and gown...sure they might have been in the dryer but the R's were leaving the next day on a trip. PR could have had those items PACKED. The blanket could have been grabbed from her suitcase. How can you be sure what BR would do? BR would probably know which nightgown was her favorite...he was her brother. Some kids want to wear the same thing over and over. Evidently JB was Barbie crazy as many little girls are at that age. Maybe that barbie was her favorite new toy...BR would know that. I don't think you can be positive PR placed those items. If the parents were staging together that comment could indicate someone else put it by JB and they hadn't noticed when they locked the door. If that was the case, imagine JR's surprise when he saw that in the photo. "That's not supposed to be there." Just sayin'.

 

[DeeDee249]

If there was an intruder who knew the family and possibly had JonBenet tricked into thinking that she was going to meet Santa and spend the night at the north pole she could have taken her own blanket down and possibly her nightie. She probably would have put on shoes and a jacket though.

She was a very savvy 6. Not 3.
It is so disheartening to see the lengths some theories go to avoid facing the possibility that JB's own family may have been behind her death.
NO intruder would need to spin a tale like that. Grab her, get her out of the house, and dump the body when you are finished. Cold and heartless. That is what pedophile killers ARE.
They don't redress the body, wrap it in her own blanket, put her nightie or dolls with her. They don't write a 3-page note. And they don't have their way with a child in her own home with her parents in the house. And they don't walk right by SEVERAL doors to the outside, taking a child into the basement from which there are NO exit doors.

 

[DeeDee249]

What if it was an accident or he was TOLD it had been an accident? Don't you think it was odd he wasn't crying "where's JB?", "where's my sister?" I do. He just grabbed his new Nintendo game and left to go to the Whites? That house was set up so those kids could do a lot of things their parents wouldn't know about. I think it is POSSIBLE.

I do think BR's behavior was VERY odd, but not for the same reasons you do. I am not sure what you mean by the house being set up so the kids could do a lot of things their parents wouldn't know about.
I feel he would not have gone to the basement and surrounded his sister's dead body with her nightie or dolls, whether he thought it was an accident or not. A parent would. Not a boy.
Yes, he just grabbed his new Nintendo game and went to the White's. Quite contentedly, too according to those present. He had been told something had happened to JB, according to JR. Yet his reactions seem to indicate complete complacence.

 

[my_tee_mouse]

As a practical matter, how would BR get in there to leave any items unless the parents forgot to latch that door?

 

[Steely]

I do think BR's behavior was VERY odd, but not for the same reasons you do. I am not sure what you mean by the house being set up so the kids could do a lot of things their parents wouldn't know about.
I feel he would not have gone to the basement and surrounded his sister's dead body with her nightie or dolls, whether he thought it was an accident or not. A parent would. Not a boy.
Yes, he just grabbed his new Nintendo game and went to the White's. Quite contentedly, too according to those present. He had been told something had happened to JB, according to JR. Yet his reactions seem to indicate complete complacence.

If the parents were trying to STAGE a scene to make it look like a pedo killed her to cover up an accident (and prior sex abuse?) or child abuse resulting in death and BR knew she was dead....they might cover the body with her blanket so the brother wouldn't see her face or other injuries so they could pray over her together as a family. They could have told him to go to bed and he could have snuck down and given his sister some of her favorite things when his parents were arguing about what to do in their room upstairs. A PARENT staging that scene might leave the blanket (especially if it was NOT in the dryer and they wanted it to look like a pedo grabbed her and the blanket or if the blanket already had evidence. A parent might be smart enough to know a Barbie doll and clean nightgown would look like a MOM did it.

 

[Steely]

As a practical matter, how would BR get in there to leave any items unless the parents forgot to latch that door?

If BR was awake when she died...(if PR flew into a rage and JB hit her head on toilet or bathtub or BR hit her with something...)BR might have known about her being dead and when they staged the scene...they wouldn't want him to see that staging so they could have covered her up. They could have prayed as a family over her. They could have told BR to go to bed. They might have left the door unlocked while they were cleaning upstairs. If they knew BR knew JB was dead they wouldn't have needed to lock the door...

 

[my_tee_mouse]

If BR was awake when she died...(if PR flew into a rage and JB hit her head on toilet or bathtub or BR hit her with something...)BR might have known about her being dead and when they staged the scene...they wouldn't want him to see that staging so they could have covered her up. They could have prayed as a family over her. They could have told BR to go to bed. They might have left the door unlocked while they were cleaning upstairs. If they knew BR knew JB was dead they wouldn't have needed to lock the door...

Except they wouldn't want him going in there looking at his dead sister or altering any staging efforts. I really don't see them praying over the body as a family under these conditions either.

 

[DeeDee249]

If the parents were trying to STAGE a scene to make it look like a pedo killed her to cover up an accident (and prior sex abuse?) or child abuse resulting in death and BR knew she was dead....they might cover the body with her blanket so the brother wouldn't see her face or other injuries so they could pray over her together as a family. They could have told him to go to bed and he could have snuck down and given his sister some of her favorite things when his parents were arguing about what to do in their room upstairs. A PARENT staging that scene might leave the blanket (especially if it was NOT in the dryer and they wanted it to look like a pedo grabbed her and the blanket or if the blanket already had evidence. A parent might be smart enough to know a Barbie doll and clean nightgown would look like a MOM did it.

The problem is that her FACE wasn't covered up. The blanket was wrapped around her torso only. Head, face and legs exposed. Her hands were said to be sticking out as well, but they couldn't have been stretched out flat over her head as described by JR because by that time, she was in full rigor and her arms were as they are shown in the crime photos as she lay on the living room rug- bent up at the elbow in front of her face.
Dead bodies are scary to kids. I simply cannot see BR going down to the WC alone to see JB or put anything in he room with her.

 

[otg]

I think it is more likely the nightgown was on the blanket due to static cling but we don't know for sure. If that was her favorite blanket and gown...sure they might have been in the dryer but the R's were leaving the next day on a trip. PR could have had those items PACKED. The blanket could have been grabbed from her suitcase. How can you be sure what BR would do? BR would probably know which nightgown was her favorite...he was her brother. Some kids want to wear the same thing over and over. Evidently JB was Barbie crazy as many little girls are at that age. Maybe that barbie was her favorite new toy...BR would know that. I don't think you can be positive PR placed those items. If the parents were staging together that comment could indicate someone else put it by JB and they hadn't noticed when they locked the door. If that was the case, imagine JR's surprise when he saw that in the photo. "That's not supposed to be there." Just sayin'.

Steely, I think the point DeeDee and Toltec were making was not whether or not Burke would have known about her favorite things. He probably would. But just because he knew, would he have thought to place those things with her? I mean, let's face it, are little boys really that sensitive or thoughtful of other peoples' feelings at that age?
.

 

[Steely]

Steely, I think the point DeeDee and Toltec were making was not whether or not Burke would have known about her favorite things. He probably would. But just because he knew, would he have thought to place those things with her? I mean, let's face it, are little boys really that sensitive or thoughtful of other peoples' feelings at that age?
.

I'm not saying I think this is PROBABLY what happened...I am saying it is POSSIBLE and can't be ruled completely out. And yes, I know some boys are sensitive and thoughtful enough of other peoples' feelings at that age. Some of the most thoughtful and sensitive children don't APPEAR that way to people who do not know them. Have you ever witnessed children burying a pet? They can be incredibly sensitive and thoughtful when it is just a pet that has died. Also, I think BR's actions (or lack of) could have been because he was in shock.

 

[Steely]

The problem is that her FACE wasn't covered up. The blanket was wrapped around her torso only. Head, face and legs exposed. Her hands were said to be sticking out as well, but they couldn't have been stretched out flat over her head as described by JR because by that time, she was in full rigor and her arms were as they are shown in the crime photos as she lay on the living room rug- bent up at the elbow in front of her face.
Dead bodies are scary to kids. I simply cannot see BR going down to the WC alone to see JB or put anything in he room with her.

I can't see him abusing and killing his sister, but some people think he did. Why is it people can imagine BR torturing his sister but no one can imagine he would take his dead sister a favorite doll and/or nightgown?