Sources: Casey Anthony Intentionally Killed Caylee

[kiki the parrot]

Ok I posted this a little while ago, but I added some questions at the end and if anyone has any input I would greatly appreciate it! I heard on Nancy that it is confirmed that the duct tape was around Caylee's mouth, I immediately thought of something from the JonBenet case..Steve Thomas wrote in his book that one of the reasons he thought the Ramsey's faked JonBenet's kidnapping was the duct tape found on her mouth..heres an excerpt:As part of her staging, Thomas wrote that Patsy put a strip of duct tape over JonBenet's mouth. "There was bloody mucus under the tape, and a perfect set of the child's lip prints, which did not indicate a tongue impression or resistance," indicating that JonBenet had not been alive when the tape was affixed to her mouth. So if Casey's fingerprints were found on the duct tape, and evidence of resistance (showing Caylee was ALIVE when the duct tape was placed, knocking out accident theory) I think that is enough to indicate intentional murder. I notice many people think that Casey killed Caylee w/ chloroform, possibly by taping a rag over her mouth? I don't know anything ab chloroform so i was wondering why Casey would do this, rather than just hold the rag herself? I hope I am accurate about the duct tape, I would love to see how Baez would explain why Casey's fingerprints were on duct tape that was clearly placed on Caylee while she was still alive. hmmm

(bold mine) And conversely, if KC and the months she's spent denying any knowledge haven't completely destroyed the only evidence which could have ever determined this, it may be equally possible to establish the duct tape was used postmortem in staging a kidnapping eg to deflect responsibility away from her own negligence.

Great post! Thank you!:clap:

I posted before that I think this "leak" has more to with Prosecution positioning than anything else. Possibly a plan to let Def know they have what they consider an airtight case and Def should try to make a deal - LWOP before they return the DP to the table or that plea (senile, can't remember what it's called) where you don't admit guilt but accept that the SA has the evidence to put you away and you kinda throw yourself on the mercy of the court (although I don't think Judge S. would be inclined to be very merciful) and avoid trial. JMO

ITA As stated previously I believe this is part of State's strategy, in the absence of known cause of death, crime scene, proof of murder much less premeditation, nor even a theory for that matter, to turn up the heat--and force her to come off the "ZG" act, in assurance of LWOP or in exchange for a lighter sentence, if she will reveal what really occurred that day.

I think that she taped the chloroformed rag or what ever she put it on to Caylee's mouth and nose and then proceeded to smother her with a pillow. If Caylee was out because of the chloroform when she was smothered then she probably just stopped breathing without knowing what was happening to her. I hope and pray that that is what happened. Caylee would have just went to sleep and never woke up. I hope she just surprised her with the chloroform and Caylee was out before she realized that was happening too.

Didn't LE take a pillow from the Anthony's home during the last searches along with some bedding? LE must have found a treasure trove in that bag with Caylee. It seems to me like Casey didn't think that Caylee would ever be found. She sure has acted like it anyway.

After hearing all of the evidence....watching that tape of Caylee...and then hearing about Casey's behavior as soon as Caylee was dead...the jurors are going to despise her. If the Pros decides to go for the death penalty I really believe that the jury will go for it.

As far as Casey being offered any kind of plea bargain...it is never going to happen. She has nothing to bargain with now that Caylee has been found. I doubt that the Pros is going to want to give an inch to this monster.

(respectfully snipped, bold mine) So was this before or after she poisoned, strangled, broke her neck, pinched her nose and "held her" under the (four foot deep) water... Forgive me, I'm just trying to figure out the order here...?? And fortunately there is that little step, prior to impaneling, called voir dire... which will permit KC, in theory, a fair and impartial jury. A process which hopefully ferrets out prospective jurors for this sort of animosity that otherwise would be lurking in the minds of prospective jurors who feel as you do (along w the majority of posters... JBean, Devon and I might be the only ones who survive voir dire lol!)

I have to wonder if this leaked statement isnt a prelude to a situation where the prosecutions says "Look,this is what we have on your client. Weve got her dead bang and you know it."
"She can either plead guilty and confess and we will consider Life in prison or if we have to go to court were going for the Needle. Your call."
If so what do you think Team Casey is going to do if it comes down to that nub?
It isnt going to do to even a publicity hungry lawyer any good to help his 20 something client get straped to the big stretcher.
And I cant beleive even Casey would pick deathrow over the possibilty of Parole down the road.(Especially if she can maintain in private to her fan club that she was 'railroaded' or 'The truth will come out someday' or 'My attorneys used me and sold me out!' or whatever.)
What do you all think?

What I think is written above (and earlier), which is ITA w this. State's strategy seems to continue to be to slowly turn up the heat w these releases (leaks), cranking it up little by little, a notch at a time in hopes this girl will stop stonewalling...and who could possibly blame them. They need more--a crime scene, or a cause of death would help--and they must be frustrated beyond imagination that this arrogant 22 year-old has remained so impervious. JMO

 

[Where's Andre]

Casey is charged with premeditated murder, not felony murder.

Respectfully, First Degree Murder. Which to my understanding in certain aggravated circumstances does not require premeditation in Florida. Notably when Agravated Child Abuse is involved.

Flordia Statutes 782.04

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0782/SEC04.HTM&Title=->2008->Ch0782->Section%2004#0782.04

 

[Devon]

(respectfully snipped, bold mine) So was this before or after she poisoned, strangled, broke her neck, pinched her nose and "held her" under the (four foot deep) water... Forgive me, I'm just trying to figure out the order here...?? And fortunately there is that little step, prior to impaneling, called voir dire... which will permit KC, in theory, a fair and impartial jury. A process which hopefully ferrets out prospective jurors for just this sort of animosity that otherwise would be lurking in the minds of prospective jurors who feel as you do (along w the majority of posters... JBean, Devon and I might be the only ones who survive voir dire lol!)

Yes, but unfortunately I am all the way over here in good ol' 'Blighty', so that just leaves '2 green bottles sitting on the wall'!

 

[GingBreade]

I think that the fight on the night of the 15th was of mammoth proportions, Cindy told KC that she would try and take custody of Caylee and that the stealing and lying fest was OVER. KC was shocked. This had never happened before. Her life as she knew it was over. She wanted to get Cindy back so bad...she did kill Caylee on the 16th intentionally. She moved the ladder and let Caylee drown. She called her parents in the 'flurry' of calls, to cry to them what happened and all would be forgotten and she would be the grieving mother. They would tell her to call 911 and she would, and we would have never heard about this. It would be another tragic drowning. But it all went wrong. Cindy probably told George not to answer her calls -they agreed to not talk to KC that day because this time they meant business and didn't want to fight over the phone or whatever. KC knew after the calls went unanswered that she would never be believed and was too scared to call 911 and face things by herself.

I have a point here...after KC 'let' Caylee drown she didn't know what to do. I know that when people drown, they inhale large amounts of water. My thinking is that when KC moved Caylee, water escaped from Caylee's mouth intermittently. KC is so dumb, she thought that she could be caught if pool water was in her trunk, so she duct taped Caylee's mouth so that no more water would escape. Still premediated, but a possible explanation for the duct tape too. Stupid? Maybe. :bang:

 

[doogiesgirl]

that's how I see it too. I also can't help but feel there is a strong attachment with the two of them that is unhealthy for either of them. I'm not sure if it was sexual, emotional or both. I just think it's something?

I agree. I was struck when KC walked into the courtroom at the eye contact between she and JB. It was intimate. I am not saying sexual, but to me it felt very intimate. I honestly thought of JB's wife at that moment. I hated that she would no doubt see that, and I know if I were her that would hurt me. Please don't jump on me people, I saw and felt this strongly so others must have too. MOO

 

[LCoastMom]

I think that number is shrinking because it does not pass the sniff test and instead suggests a rather complex and diabolical conspiracy.

We can establish via videos and eyewitness testimony Caylee was alive the afternoon of the 15th.

George said he saw her leave with KC just before 1 on the 16th. There is no logical reason for George to lie about this, so was he confused?

Well, KC's cell phone pings all morning and up to about 4:15PM from the parent's.

The home computer shows activity in the morning that ends just before 1 (when George says he saw them leave) and restarts around 2 (after George left for work).

The home computer activity includes an upload to KC's Photobucket.

JG says he hears Caylee in the background during his 2:50 PM call with KC.
​

Just too much circumstantial evidence supporting a live Caylee up to 3 PM on the 16th.

The voice of reason speaks, thank you for putting this so eloquently. I gave up months ago, after becoming tired of seeing my own posts repeatedly saying the same thing.

When this family woke up on July 15th they had no idea what they were about to enter into. There was no time for conspiracy. Prior to picking up KC's car there was no need to get stories straight. Since then their stories have all gone straight down hill but anything they said to LE or reporters the first couple of days should be taken at their word and the situation evaluated as if they were speaking the truth. MOO

 

[Wudge]

SNIP

State's strategy seems to continue to be to slowly turn up the heat w these releases (leaks), cranking it up little by little, a notch at a time in hopes this girl will stop stonewalling...and who could possibly blame them. They need more--a crime scene, or a cause of death would help--and they must be frustrated beyond imagination that this arrogant 22 year-old has remained so impervious. JMO[/COLOR]

Prosecutors dropped the death penalty. They willingly reduced the heat. Rather than hearing the death penalty was reinstated, we receive a head fake from an anonymous source.

To me, this story evidences classical prosecutorial puffery and nothing more. This alleged "leak" (planted story), also stongly indicates to me that none of the Anthonys will be charged with obstruction of justice. The best prosecutors seem to be able to come up with is to plant anonymously sourced stories -- so as to try and maintain the most poisoned jury pool possble.

 

[Wudge]

Respectfully, First Degree Murder. Which to my understanding in certain aggravated circumstances does not require premeditation in Florida. Notably when Agravated Child Abuse is involved.

Flordia Statutes 782.04

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0782/SEC04.HTM&Title=->2008->Ch0782->Section%2004#0782.04

The point was and remains that felony murder has not been charged.

 

[evergreen]

I think that the fight on the night of the 15th was of mammoth proportions, Cindy told KC that she would try and take custody of Caylee and that the stealing and lying fest was OVER. KC was shocked. This had never happened before. Her life as she knew it was over. She wanted to get Cindy back so bad...she did kill Caylee on the 16th intentionally. She moved the ladder and let Caylee drown. She called her parents in the 'flurry' of calls, to cry to them what happened and all would be forgotten and she would be the grieving mother. They would tell her to call 911 and she would, and we would have never heard about this. It would be another tragic drowning. But it all went wrong. Cindy probably told George not to answer her calls -they agreed to not talk to KC that day because this time they meant business and didn't want to fight over the phone or whatever. KC knew after the calls went unanswered that she would never be believed and was too scared to call 911 and face things by herself.

I have a point here...after KC 'let' Caylee drown she didn't know what to do. I know that when people drown, they inhale large amounts of water. My thinking is that when KC moved Caylee, water escaped from Caylee's mouth intermittently. KC is so dumb, she thought that she could be caught if pool water was in her trunk, so she duct taped Caylee's mouth so that no more water would escape. Still premediated, but a possible explanation for the duct tape too. Stupid? Maybe. :bang:

I am just not buying the "i am going to get Mom soooo baaddd that ohh, I don't know, I guess I will just kill my daughter", theory.

 

[radio]

I am just not buying the "i am going to get Mom soooo baaddd that ohh, I don't know, I guess I will just kill my daughter", theory.

Evergreen -- interesting!

Drowning, etc.?

Normally in a drowning certain bodily functions remain behind. I don't think anything like that has been found. Uh - reported anyway.

True - being angry or even hating your mother is a pretty shallow reason to kill your own child.

Man, I just don't know anymore. lol

 

[GingBreade]

I am just not buying the "i am going to get Mom soooo baaddd that ohh, I don't know, I guess I will just kill my daughter", theory.

That is so not what I meant, I guess I didn't make it clear at all...the big TRIGGER was the fight. KC was going to kill Caylee any day, this just happened to be the day. It is so sad beyond belief that KC planned this to happen at all. This was just the day she carried her plan out. It was the right time. It was all about HER. She had a date with Tony that night.

 

[heartfortruth]

I am just not buying the "i am going to get Mom soooo baaddd that ohh, I don't know, I guess I will just kill my daughter", theory.

me either

 

[LCoastMom]

all you need to make chloroform is bleach or pool shock, acetone(any hardware store has it) and ice. it is too easy to make unfortunately

Yes, but in this case the FBI report said it was pure chloroform. No acetone or impurities present.

 

[CPP]

Im weeping now
And all this info just before I go to bed
Please no one gloat over the fact that *you*were right about it being intentional and those of us that tried to hold onto some kind of humanity that Casey accidentally killed Caylee now have egg on our faces
Please do not gloat
A little girl , a beautiful little girl is dead.
Right now a Mother and Father have lost not only their granddaughter but also their daughter.
It just isnt the time to gloat

A very sad Jane

I would like to think that those who are saying they knew aren't gloating. I, too, have believed it was deliberate, and I am hardly gloating. However, accepting that as a possiblity makes it less horrifying to learn the heartbreaking truth.

What tipped the scales for me early on, was when it was revealed that KC was partying, and lying to others about Caylee's whereabouts for 30 days prior to reporting her missing. I told myself then, that were a child missing, a loving mother would be frantic, KC was unconcerned; and had it been an accident, then at some point grief, guilt and shame would break her silence.

If only KC had 1/2 as kind a heart as you, heck! if she only had a 1/10, we'd none of us be having this discussion.

 

[LCoastMom]

Maybe not - Rigor sets up and then relaxes but many infant and child corpses will not exhibit perceptible rigor mortis. This decreased perceptible stiffness may be due to their smaller muscle mass. Another thing is rigor can be "broken" by just moving the joints. It is not really so stiff they can't be moved.

Warning...harsh content in post, proceed with caution. May not be suitable for all readers.

If KC killed Caylee the night before and then parades a 12 hr old corpse past GA she would be carrying around a little body that was blue and purple and red where the blood had pooled. The remaining skin tone would be ash gray. I don't think even the queen of lies could pull that off.

Even if Caylee were only recently deceased her skin tone would have turned a dusky blue due to oxygen deprivation. It would have been tough to explain. If GA could remember what she was wearing, I think he would have noticed if she wasn't breathing. Just saying...

 

[Lanie]

I am just not buying the "i am going to get Mom soooo baaddd that ohh, I don't know, I guess I will just kill my daughter", theory.

Why not?

Some guy, just this Christmas, pretty much decided he was going to get his ex-wife so bad he went to her parents, shot up the place, including shooting an 8 year old girl who answered the door in the face, then burned down the house. 9 people died, including the ex-wife and her parents. It appears the only reason he killed himself afterwards is because he was badly burned setting the house on fire, as LE found another car, and transportation arrangements for his getaway. Everyone who I heard they talked to, including family of the deceased, said this was a good guy, and there were no signs this was coming.
Unfortunately, this is just one of many stories with the same theme.
So, again, why not?
Lanie

 

[kiki the parrot]

QUOTE=bananarama;3150690]The SA did state this as fact at the hearing on Thursday. She specifically stated that the FBI was in possession of the duct tape and were hoping to pull fingerprints off of it. That's confirmation enough for me.[/QUOTE]

Confirmation only of tape found at the scene--but neither it's location nor certainly whether tape was placed post- vs antemortem.

Casey is charged with premeditated murder, not felony murder.

Yes and they have their work cut out for them!

Yes, and wasn't it touching, "the way she sobbed uncontrollably" when the Judge talked about pictures of little Caylee's remains?

(Yes, I am joking...she couldn't even manage to squeek out just one tear for her precious baby daughter. She didn't even want to be there, she wanted to be back at the jail cell with her cocoa butter, radio and snacks.)

And if she had, you would be just as ready to accuse her of being manipulative. This was not anything she'd not previously heard from her attorney.

Yes, but unfortunately I am all the way over here in good ol' 'Blighty', so that just leaves '2 green bottles sitting on the wall'!

:toast:
Well since I reside neither w/in Orange County nor even w/in FL, unless JBean happens to live there this leaves us w "no bottles of beer on the wall, no bottles of beer..."

Prosecutors dropped the death penalty. They willingly reduced the heat. Rather than hearing the death penalty was reinstated, we receive a head fake from an anonymous source.

To me, this story evidences classical prosecutorial puffery and nothing more. This alleged "leak" (planted story), also stongly indicates to me that none of the Anthonys will be charged with obstruction of justice. The best prosecutors seem to be able to come up with is to plant anonymously sourced stories -- so as to try and maintain the most poisoned jury pool possble.

ITA (Of course you, Magnolia or JWG may alternately qualify for the jury pool if either of you happen to live in OC...)
:blowkiss:

 

[zadari]

If KC killed Caylee the night before and then parades a 12 hr old corpse past GA she would be carrying around a little body that was blue and purple and red where the blood had pooled. The remaining skin tone would be ash gray. I don't think even the queen of lies could pull that off.

Even if Caylee were only recently deceased her skin tone would have turned a dusky blue due to oxygen deprivation. It would have been tough to explain. If GA could remember what she was wearing, I think he would have noticed if she wasn't breathing. Just saying...

oh god i cant even go there imagining her like that .. im sorry its off topic but it makes me cry

 

[radio]

I would like to think that those who are saying they knew aren't gloating. I, too, have believed it was deliberate, and I am hardly gloating. However, accepting that as a possiblity makes it less horrifying to learn the heartbreaking truth.

What tipped the scales for me early on, was when it was revealed that KC was partying, and lying to others about Caylee's whereabouts for 30 days prior to reporting her missing. I told myself then, that were a child missing, a loving mother would be frantic, KC was unconcerned; and had it been an accident, then at some point grief, guilt and shame would break her silence.

If only KC had 1/2 as kind a heart as you, heck! if she only had a 1/10, we'd none of us be having this discussion.

Bold Mine...

A very good post. I bolded the part my mind always drags me back too - "IF" she knew the child was missing. "IF" she actually had left the child with someone and had no worries. Seems unlikely I know ... but I'm always going back to "IF".

 

[LCoastMom]

Prosecutors dropped the death penalty. They willingly reduced the heat. Rather than hearing the death penalty was reinstated, we receive a head fake from an anonymous source.

To me, this story evidences classical prosecutorial puffery and nothing more. This alleged "leak" (planted story), also stongly indicates to me that none of the Anthonys will be charged with obstruction of justice. The best prosecutors seem to be able to come up with is to plant anonymously sourced stories -- so as to try and maintain the most poisoned jury pool possble.

Is it not true the DP can be taken away if it will only serve to cause more harm to the victims or the victims families?

In this case as long as they are not charged with any crimes that would include CA and GA. The dp will not bring Caylee back, so aside from the public which includes many people who would offer to carry out the sentence themselves, who does the dp serve? And, is this why it was removed?