South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #2

[Tortoise]

I've put together a list of the witnesses to date with thread post numbers as starting point reference:

Thread 1 - http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...a-54-Rudi-van-Breda-22-murdered-26-Jan-2015-1

Mon 24/4 (Day 1) post #219
Trial opens with charges and plea
Post #234 Sgt Adrian Kleynhans - 1st police officer at scene

Tues 25/4 (Day 2) post #237
Site visit

Weds 26/4 (Day 3) post #274
Notes of site visit admitted as exhibit

Tues 2/5 (Day 4) post #339
Sgt Kleynhans continued
post #409 Lorenzo Afrika - security guard

Weds 3/5 (Day 5) post #418
Lorenzo Afrika continued

Thurs 4/5 (Day 6) post #479
Edgar Wyngaard - security supervisor

Mon 8/5 (Day 7) post #570
Marcia Rossouw - security manager

Tues 9/5 (Day 8) post #636
Marcia Rossouw continued
Post #711 Christiaan Koegelenberg - ambulance driver

Weds 10/5 (Day 9) post #739
Cornelius Andries - Andre - van Breda - Martin's brother
Post #760 Precious Myongane - domestic worker
Post #785 Bianca van der Westhuizen - Henri's friend

Thurs 11/5 (Day 10) post #828
James Reade-Jahn - Marli's boyfriend
Post #849 Cpt Nicholas Steyn - police

Mon 15/5 (Day 11) post #924
Lt Col Henry Stewart - forensics - hair

Tues 16/5 (Day 12) post #1029
Lt Col Henry Stewart continued
Post #1052 Stephanie Op't Hof - neighbour at 10 Goske Street
Post #1103 Janine Philander - ambulance responder

Weds 17/5 (Day 13) post #1127
Janine Philander continued with emergency call recordings
Post #1196 Dr Lizette Albertse - doctor at Stellenbosch District Hospital - documented wounds and took blood for DNA

Thurs 18/5 (Day 14) post #1236
Jonathan Olifant - police fingerprint expert
Post #1274 Dr Marianne Tiemensma - medical specialist Clinical Forensic unit, Victoria Hospital - examined Henri's injuries from photos

Thread 2 - http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...a-54-Rudi-van-Breda-22-murdered-26-Jan-2015-2

Mon 22/5 (Day 15) post #76
Dr Michelle van Zyl - head of Vergelegen medi-clinic, saw Henri twice at 20:25 and 21:45 - clipped wound and took blood for drug/alcohol testing

Tues 23/5 (Day 16) post #154
Dr Marianne Tiemensma continued

Weds 24/5 (Day 17) post #270
Prof Johan Dempers - forensic pathologist - pork experiment

Thurs 25/5 (Day 18) post #396
Dr Daphne Anthony - State pathologist, performed autopsies
Post #457 Trial within a trial starts
Post #461 Sgt Clinton Malan - took Henri's statement

Mon 29/5 (Day 19) post #569
Trial within a trial continues
Sgt Malan continued

 

[Interested Bystander]

Tracey Stewart's parting shot.

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

Of course Botha need not call Henri but only Henri can give evidence to dispute Sgt Malan's evidence Botha's strategy changes

 

[Tortoise]

Tracey Stewart's parting shot.

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

Of course Botha need not call Henri but only Henri can give evidence to dispute Sgt Malan's evidence Botha's strategy changes

Botha must be worried about putting Henri on the stand. Galloway said she couldn't understand why Henri wouldn't be giving evidence - I wish the reporters had captured Botha's and/or Desai's response.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Botha must be worried about putting Henri on the stand. Galloway said she couldn't understand why Henri wouldn't be giving evidence - I wish the reporters had captured Botha's and/or Desai's response.

Do you think this indicates HvB will not take the stand? That would be so frustrating.

 

[Tortoise]

Do you think this indicates HvB will not take the stand? That would be so frustrating.

I wouldn't be surprised. To be honest I'd prefer not to hear what this coward has to say anyway. I get so so indescribably mad when I don't hear truth, but lies against people who have been murdered, to save self. I can't even put it into words very well.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I wouldn't be surprised. To be honest I'd prefer not to hear what this coward has to say anyway. I get so so indescribably mad when I don't hear truth, but lies against people who have been murdered, to save self. I can't even put it into words very well.

I can see exactly where you are coming from. I would like to see him tied in knots but I rather think it would be another scenario where we see him "doing a Pistorius" ie snotting, blubbing and puking. Definitely a green bucket occasion.

 

[Tortoise]

Is Botha allowed to assert it's their case that police said things like "why? are you guilty?" and "Marli is telling us everything" and that Henri told them there were two intruders, if Henri doesn't take the stand to be cross examined?

 

[JudgeJudi]

I have the whole of Tracey Stewart's tweets. I don't want to bore everybody but sometimes there are differences in the tweets from various sources. Should I post them for people to read or would that be a waste of time?

I really missed the tweets from Tracey Stewart last night. All sources complement one another and frequently provide details not covered by others who may be reporting. I've now read the tweets, but to me it's not the same as reading them in blocks as the evidence is given.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I have the whole of Tracey Stewart's tweets. I don't want to bore everybody but sometimes there are differences in the tweets from various sources. Should I post them for people to read or would that be a waste of time?

I really missed the tweets from Tracey Stewart last night. All sources complement one another and frequently provide details not covered by others who may be reporting. I've now read the tweets, but to me it's not the same as reading them in blocks as the evidence is given.

Sorry about not getting the rest of Tracey's tweets, took a phone call by the time I came back there were 52 tweets and I thought it'd be repetitious of what was just posted by JJ, I couldn't screen them. I worry too about boring or annoying readers of the thread.
If you've got them saved IB, it would be great to post them up, I read them all because as you say, there are slight differences and even missed dialogue or points made.

 

[L2L]

Sorry about not getting the rest of Tracey's tweets, took a phone call by the time I came back there were 52 tweets and I thought it'd be repetitious of what was just posted by JJ, I couldn't screen them. I worry too about boring or annoying readers of the thread.
If you've got them saved IB, it would be great to post them up, I read them all because as you say, there are slight differences and even missed dialogue or points made.

Never annoying, Prime Suspect! You and others do a brilliant job for the likes of me who loves to get all the details, no matter how small or repetitious!

 

[JudgeJudi]

There was at least an hour left of the afternoon. Why on earth did B. not call him? I can only suggest he wants to talk to him before he appears as a witness. I guess he is allowed to do this? Good to see Desai again pick B. up on his attitude..

If HvB is called as a witness in the trial within a trial he will be cross-examined and Botha obviously doesn't want this for some reason.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I’ve included below the main tweets as they haven’t been posted despite IB asking if anyone wanted them.

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams · May 26
it's such a fine line between getting a witness statement and then realizing they are a suspect-can't read witnesses their rights

B: when u arrived on the scene Henri was there? M: Yes, he was in the ambulance at the time.
B: Captain Steyn questioned Henri? M: Yes.
B: Do u know what he told Steyn? No I don't. I heard Steyn was questioning him
B: When u left the scene with Adams and Henri u knew he had given a description of what happened to Captain Steyn? M: correct
B: Who told u to take my client? M: Supervisor- to take victim to district surgeon to document his injuries and complete J88

[HvB being treated as a witness, not suspect as his welfare is the concern at this point]

B: He says u told him Marli's sister was given a drug which makes her wide awake and telling us everything? M: not true
B: Henri said at 1 stage police officer asked Dr A if his wounds could have been self inflicted? must have been Adams? I don't know
B: He says u told him Marli's sister (sic) was given a drug which makes her wide awake and telling us everything? M: not true
B: Beneke arrived described as a big man, is he? M: correct.
B: He said I don't believe word of bulls**t story. M: no he didnt
M: he asked H to ask him what happened.
B: did he warn my client of the sec 35 rights? No not necessesary he was a witness
M: nobody gave him those warnings.
B: H says he was told to repeat his version a few times. M we asked him what happened and asked questions - describe attacker
B: was my client at any stage from scene to when he left police late afternoon, allowed to leave at his leisure? M: yes he was
Court Adjourned- another unusual turn of events- Adv Botha isn't going to call Henri on the trial within a trial matter
Of course Botha need not call Henri but only Henri can give evidence to dispute Sgt Malan's evidence Botha's strategy changes

 

[JudgeJudi]

https://twitter.com/Traceyams

Tracey Stewart‏ @Traceyams · 17h17 hours ago
Advocate Galloway notes that we don't have a statement from Van Breda - seemingly confused about the decision to only call Uncle

Uncle Andre no doubt being called to state what clothes the family provided to HvB and when.

 

[Interested Bystander]

If HvB is called as a witness in the trial within a trial he will be cross-examined and Botha obviously doesn't want this for some reason.

I was referring to the Uncle not being called when there was a good hour of court time available. I cannot imagine B is going to need more than hour to ask about family relations and HvB's clothing. There is such a waste of court time but Desai doesn't seem to do much about it.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I was referring to the Uncle not being called when there was a good hour of court time available. I cannot imagine B is going to need more than hour to ask about family relations and HvB's clothing. There is such a waste of court time but Desai doesn't seem to do much about it.

Same as OP trial, the defence calls the shots, or is about wealth of the 'client', actually the 'accused' and they delay in an attempt to frustrate the state.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Re Tracey Stewart's tweets. I have been practising trying to keep up with the tweeting but I haven't mastered the craft yet. LOL. I don't think I have found the quickest way. I am using a split screen and copy and pasting each Tweet into Word, with the idea of copying and pasting into WS. I think this takes too long. Maybe I should be pasting directly into a reply on the forum. The other problem is that I have 3 other people in the house making demands on me (in the nicest possible way) and I find catching up impossible at times.

Is there a faster way to quote? I would love to know. However, I can do nothing about the interruptions as family must come first.

I am not going to be around today as I have visitors all day. Also Thursday is not possible. I would love to help but I need to find a quicker way of copying the tweets and dealing with the interruptions.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Re Tracey Stewart's tweets. I have been practising trying to keep up with the tweeting but I haven't mastered the craft yet. LOL. I don't think I have found the quickest way. I am using a split screen and copy and pasting each Tweet into Word, with the idea of copying and pasting into WS. I think this takes too long. Maybe I should be pasting directly into a reply on the forum. The other problem is that I have 3 other people in the house making demands on me (in the nicest possible way) and I find catching up impossible at times.

Is there a faster way to quote? I would love to know. However, I can do nothing about the interruptions as family must come first.

I am not going to be around today as I have visitors all day. Also Thursday is not possible. I would love to help but I need to find a quicker way of copying the tweets and dealing with the interruptions.

No worries IB, between us we've been doing pretty well so far. I use split screen too, I keep re-editing the post adding subsequent tweets. I'll keep doing it unless anyone else volunteers.

 

[Interested Bystander]

No worries IB, between us we've been doing pretty well so far. I use split screen too, I keep re-editing the post adding subsequent tweets. I'll keep doing it unless anyone else volunteers.

Prime, you and JJ do a brilliant job. Tomorrow I think I will practice split screen and pasting directly into WS and see how I get on. It has to save time.

I shall be so frustrated at not being able to follow today but plan on sneaking a few quick looks on my iPad when possible.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Let’s clear up this nonsense of how freezing it was for poor HvB who was only wearing shorts. Malans said the window was open and the air conditioning was not on, and why would it be.

SA’s temperatures are extremely close to those in Sydney.

These are the temperatures for Cape Town on 27 January 2015

7am 19C / 66.2F
8am 21C / 69.8F
9am 23C / 73.4F
10am 24C / 75.2F
11am 24C / 75.2F
12noon 25C / 77.0F

There's absolutely no reason to turn on an air conditioner for these temps. At most you'd open a window, and probably that isn't necessary either.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Sorry, I inadvertently included the tweet relating to Marli being given a drug which makes her wide awake etc. twice.

On a different note you may find the following interesting:

When an investigation is underway after an event, in this case murders, investigators frequently legally lie. Read on.

http://www.njmoorelaw.com/10-ways-police-can-lie-to-you