South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #3

[Interested Bystander]

I am sorry to tell you that krap means scratch, so krapping in this context would mean scratching or digging even. Nothing to do with cr*ap, unfortunately, but I also through the cr*p comment would have been better!

Thank you Apples.

 

[Interested Bystander]

See you all on August 7th. Galloway thinks she can finish in 3 weeks but Botha will no doubt mess up the proceedings. Desai only has until 28th August so it will be another few weeks to add on if they don't get through the trial on time. Botha must know he has lost the case. He ought to encourage HvB to thrown in the towel IMO.

 

[Tortoise]

The defence won't even start in August - guaranteed. 3 weeks for the state takes it from Mon 7th to Thurs 24th, and Galloway hasn't allowed for Botha's stalling tactics and adjournments before he'll cross-examine.

Then it'll be a question of waiting for the next slot. What did Desai mean by he has another trial "standing down" at end August? That sounds to me like a cancellation.

 

[Interested Bystander]

The defence won't even start in August - guaranteed. 3 weeks for the state takes it from Mon 7th to Thurs 24th, and Galloway hasn't allowed for Botha's stalling tactics and adjournments before he'll cross-examine.

Then it'll be a question of waiting for the next slot. What did Desai mean by he has another trial "standing down" at end August? That sounds to me like a cancellation.

Your are right, of course, Tortoise. I was sleeping or brain dead, one of the two! Botha has taken up 90 per cent of the time already allotted and he has so disrupted Galloway that I have been thinking he was coming to the end of the Defence!

Galloway really hasn't got started on the important stuff IMO and if B. continues in his usual manner this trial could go on until Christmas. I wonder who is paying HvB's bill? If it his uncle and aunts they must be getting quite worried about the final amount. Maybe he has managed to get his hands on half the selling price of the old house - though I would have thought this should not have been sold until after the trial because, if found guilty, Marli would have inherited all of it. I would love to know what happened there.

 

[L2L]

Till August 7 and adding huge thanks to everyone!

 

[Mette]

Although "krap" literally means scratch, in this context I think a better translation would be nitpicking.

I think the court break is good, it gives Marli another eight weeks to get her memory back. Unless her memory is fine and she doesn't want to testify against her brother.

 

[L2L]

It's just too awful isn't it Prime. That he's allowed to continue enjoying his freedom, while the parents who gave him life, who loved him and did their best to give him a good life, to give him every chance to get ahead in the world, both lost their one precious life at his hands.

I have friends and family in that age group, and it's such a wonderful time for them seeing all their years of hard work and effort coming to fruition. The high school and college graduations, drivers licences, 18th and 21st parties, first jobs, moving out of home, engagements, weddings, first grandchildren - all those wonderful celebrations that Martin and Theresa are forever denied.

As for Rudi, yeah - there are no words.

My exact thoughts! But why is this monster not only allowed to enjoy freedom but also be a very real threat to anyone living with or near him? When the trial resumes
and the noose tightens around his neck, as it surely will, who's to stop him killing again? He wouldn't hesitate for a second if the mood so took him, in my opinion. Doubt he'd be enjoying freedom here in Australia; JJ would be able to comment on that. Makes my blood boil to know he's probably partying during the coming weeks. Cold, callous killer incapable of any remorse and I won't be the least surprised if he kills again.

 

[LouP1209]

Sorry everyone I forgot to thank for the updates yesterday :cheers::tyou:

 

[Tortoise]

Two more photos at the link.

http://www.iol.co.za/capeargus/news...9772317?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Now I've seen the picture it looks very unlikely to have been thrown. The way the blood runs down means the axe hit the wall vertically. Impossible I say.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Although "krap" literally means scratch, in this context I think a better translation would be nitpicking.

I think the court break is good, it gives Marli another eight weeks to get her memory back. Unless her memory is fine and she doesn't want to testify against her brother.

Thanks for the translation.

I'd say the chances of her getting her memory back in the next 8 weeks are zero. It's now been close to 2 1/2 years and there hasn't been one word said or even hinted at that she's recovered it.

 

[JudgeJudi]

The defence won't even start in August - guaranteed. 3 weeks for the state takes it from Mon 7th to Thurs 24th, and Galloway hasn't allowed for Botha's stalling tactics and adjournments before he'll cross-examine.

Then it'll be a question of waiting for the next slot. What did Desai mean by he has another trial "standing down" at end August? That sounds to me like a cancellation.

There's even the possibility this trial might not finish this year. There's one more end of term break later this year. They'll finish up about mid-December and will be off for most of January.

I was confused about the other trial "standing down" too. Normally the expression is "stood over to a date to be fixed" (in Oz). In other words the other trial would be part-heard and they're waiting for dates. But in the context it was used here that would seem Desai would be free. I don't quite know what he meant by that.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Two more photos at the link.

http://www.iol.co.za/capeargus/news...9772317?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Now I've seen the picture it looks very unlikely to have been thrown. The way the blood runs down means the axe hit the wall vertically. Impossible I say.

Those photos are chilling.

 

[JudgeJudi]

RSBM

Galloway really hasn't got started on the important stuff IMO and if B. continues in his usual manner this trial could go on until Christmas. I wonder who is paying HvB's bill? If it his uncle and aunts they must be getting quite worried about the final amount. Maybe he has managed to get his hands on half the selling price of the old house - though I would have thought this should not have been sold until after the trial because, if found guilty, Marli would have inherited all of it. I would love to know what happened there.

“A Perth legal firm is dealing with the execution of the family will. Marguerite De Wet, principal lawyer and director of Perth's Leeuwin Legal said the firm was acting on behalf of the executor Nicolaas Oosthuizen”.

Ms De Wit said, "The executor winds up the estate in terms of the will. We are going through the process and winding up the estate in terms of the will."

I would imagine the executor will ensure that funds are available to meet the needs of Marli and HvB until the conclusion of the trial, and regrettably that may include his legal fees. I would have liked the homes sold later too, but maybe that's where the money is coming from to support both of them until the trial is over.

https://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com....amilys-luxury-home-for-sale-as-son-f/3151990/

 

[Interested Bystander]

An answer to the Desai Stood Down comment. He has another case so will be unavailable at the end of August.

This is Tracey Stewart's daily write-up which cover the point. Always interesting to read.

http://www.capetownetc.com/news/van-breda-trial-day-26/

Van Breda trial day 26 – postponement of the case

Published by Tracey Ann Stewart on June 13, 2017

Today, the van Breda trial was postponed to 7 August 2017 following the finalization of the evidence of ballistics expert Captain Brown.

"The reason for the postponement is twofold – the court is needed for another matter from next week and subsequent to that, the court will go into recess, with the next available date being August, 7th, 2017. Judge Desai indicated that from 28 August he is reserved to hear another matter."

 

[JudgeJudi]

My exact thoughts! But why is this monster not only allowed to enjoy freedom but also be a very real threat to anyone living with or near him? When the trial resumes
and the noose tightens around his neck, as it surely will, who's to stop him killing again? He wouldn't hesitate for a second if the mood so took him, in my opinion. Doubt he'd be enjoying freedom here in Australia; JJ would be able to comment on that. Makes my blood boil to know he's probably partying during the coming weeks. Cold, callous killer incapable of any remorse and I won't be the least surprised if he kills again.

Until 2014 in NSW if a person was charged with murder there was a presumption against bail.

However, in 2014 new bail laws came into effect making it easier for an accused criminal to be bailed, and the first thing taken into account is now risk to the community. So I guess from that we can presume that men who murder their wives/partners should feel rather confident because hey, they only murdered their partner and everyone else in the community is safe.

I’ll have to refrain from further comment because I’ll get on my soapbox and be off on a rant. For me it’s all about the victims and those they leave behind, not the rights of murderers.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/accused-murderer-granted-bail-under-new-laws-20140616-zs9di.html

 

[JudgeJudi]

Tracey also said, "Of course, the defence will then need to start their case – depending on whether or not they bring a discharge application – and the success or not of such an application. It is thus questionable whether this trial will be finalised in 2017".

Which mirrors what I expressed earlier. We already know that Botha will stretch this trial out for as long as he possibly can.

http://www.capetownetc.com/news/van-breda-trial-day-26/

 

[Interested Bystander]

Tracey also said, "Of course, the defence will then need to start their case – depending on whether or not they bring a discharge application – and the success or not of such an application. It is thus questionable whether this trial will be finalised in 2017".

Which mirrors what I expressed earlier. We already know that Botha will stretch this trial out for as long as he possibly can.

http://www.capetownetc.com/news/van-breda-trial-day-26/

I too think he will stretch it out as long as he can. Do you think he will be doing that for the income or for the fact that he really needs this case under his belt, so to speak? Is he a bad loser? I would guess that he is, or we would not have had so much totally useless guff from him as in this case.

 

[Tortoise]

discharge application?

:laughing:

 

[Mette]

discharge application?

:laughing:

I wouldn't be surprised. It kind of sounds hilarious until you recall that gambling on a Section 174 discharge paid off just fine for Dewani.

 

[JudgeJudi]

RSBM

He ought to encourage HvB to thrown in the towel IMO.

I’m speaking generally here, but a barrister/advocate can’t “know” his client is guilty, even if the client admits that he is, because it’s not unknown for innocent people to plead guilty for a variety of reasons, even to murder (obviously I’m not referring to this case).

No matter what an accused has done, he is not legally guilty until the prosecutor offers enough evidence to persuade a judge or jury to convict.

The lawyer’s trial tactics and arguments must focus on the State’s failure to prove all the elements of the crime. They are ethically bound to vigorously represent all clients – those who they think will be found guilty as well as those who they think are factually innocent.

HvB pleaded not guilty and there’s nothing to be gained by changing his plea at this stage other than to save the further expense of his legal team. Irrespective of what Botha thinks, he’s bound to defend on the basis of the plea.

I too think he will stretch it out as long as he can. Do you think he will be doing that for the income or for the fact that he really needs this case under his belt, so to speak? Is he a bad loser? I would guess that he is, or we would not have had so much totally useless guff from him as in this case.

Big high-profile cases are few and far between, and believe me, it's very financially rewarding to have a trial that lasts for months ... very. Barristers/advocates charge based on a sliding scale of fees and the scale is different for seniors and juniors. If a matter has a QC/senior counsel, his junior counsel is entitled to charge 2/3 of the QC's fees (as in Roux and Oldwadge). Botha is still a junior (which has nothing to do with his length of time at the Bar). In this trial I would imagine Botha is charging at the very top end of a junior's scale. His win for Dewani would have boosted his reputation significantly and may well be the reason he has this case.

Is he a bad loser? Let's just say that many barristers have big egos, and of those who do, they don't like losing. I always think of him having a streetfighter type of personality as he plays fast and rough and shows a lack of respect for others which shouldn't be present in a court environment.

As for the useless guff, if you have a weak case, and particularly if you think your client is guilty, you do have to make mountains out of molehills and try and score a point wherever possible. I can't stand it but understand why he's doing it.