PrimeSuspect
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Galloway has mentioned HvB could change his mind and testify.
South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #4
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PrimeSuspect
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https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux
DrT says Rudis motor cortex was intact after the attack & that R could have moved but cant say he did move.
DrT: 1/5 loss of blood = body goes into shock. Weaker,disorientated,faint.
DrT: He has seen photos of Rudis bed.Lots of blood.R suffered at least a concussion & he would not have been able to stand.
https://twitter.com/ajnarsee
J Desai: it's also possible that the accused did not lose consciousness given his minor injuries ? Dr Trevou: It's possible
Adv Galloway: now deals with Rudi... asks about limited movement?
Dr Trevou: blow to his head would leave him unconscious and then possible regain consciousness and be able to move
Dr Trevou: it would be speculative if me to say how far he could have moved
Dr Trevou: I have seen photos of the scene
Adv Galloway: Dr Perumal says Rudi could Mae significant movement, you say limited moment...can you comment
Dr Trevou: He definitely would not be able to stand and make a phone call...can't speculate on the extent of movement
https://twitter.com/HiRezLife
Why not simply say he bled to death? How many people in the world knows what exsanguination means?
https://twitter.com/CapeTownEtc
Witness confirms that Rudi's motor-cortex was entirely intact, would have meant purposeful movement. Extent of movement unsure.
No cerebral cause of death in post-mortem, victim (Rudi) bled to death.
The witness delivers concise, punchy answers. Quite a contrast to the last.
DrT says Rudis motor cortex was intact after the attack & that R could have moved but cant say he did move.
DrT: 1/5 loss of blood = body goes into shock. Weaker,disorientated,faint.
DrT: He has seen photos of Rudis bed.Lots of blood.R suffered at least a concussion & he would not have been able to stand.
https://twitter.com/ajnarsee
J Desai: it's also possible that the accused did not lose consciousness given his minor injuries ? Dr Trevou: It's possible
Adv Galloway: now deals with Rudi... asks about limited movement?
Dr Trevou: blow to his head would leave him unconscious and then possible regain consciousness and be able to move
Dr Trevou: it would be speculative if me to say how far he could have moved
Dr Trevou: I have seen photos of the scene
Adv Galloway: Dr Perumal says Rudi could Mae significant movement, you say limited moment...can you comment
Dr Trevou: He definitely would not be able to stand and make a phone call...can't speculate on the extent of movement
https://twitter.com/HiRezLife
Why not simply say he bled to death? How many people in the world knows what exsanguination means?
https://twitter.com/CapeTownEtc
Witness confirms that Rudi's motor-cortex was entirely intact, would have meant purposeful movement. Extent of movement unsure.
No cerebral cause of death in post-mortem, victim (Rudi) bled to death.
The witness delivers concise, punchy answers. Quite a contrast to the last.
PrimeSuspect
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https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux
Galloway following up with how much movement Rudi could have achieved after attack.
DrT believes Rudi could have moved/crawled after attack but definitely not stand.
Galloway following up with how much movement Rudi could have achieved after attack.
DrT believes Rudi could have moved/crawled after attack but definitely not stand.
PrimeSuspect
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https://twitter.com/HiRezLife
Wondering whether there's anything to read in Botha's colleague's [Combrink's] absence in court today? Defense fund running empty?
So the doc can speculate on Henri's movements and conscious state, but not on Rudi's?
Wondering whether there's anything to read in Botha's colleague's [Combrink's] absence in court today? Defense fund running empty?
So the doc can speculate on Henri's movements and conscious state, but not on Rudi's?
PrimeSuspect
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https://twitter.com/ajnarsee
Dr Trevou: Rudi made purposeful movements, but dependent on his consciousness, confusion and shock
https://twitter.com/CapeTownEtc
Du Trevou: Rudi was able to move, but level of consciousness and extent of ability to move is unknown.
Dr Trevou: Rudi made purposeful movements, but dependent on his consciousness, confusion and shock
https://twitter.com/CapeTownEtc
Du Trevou: Rudi was able to move, but level of consciousness and extent of ability to move is unknown.
PrimeSuspect
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https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux
Now we are dealing with henri's loss of consciousness after the event. Henri did not have any epilepsy or medical condition.
https://twitter.com/ajnarsee
It's Tense, Defence is objecting and Judge Desai is allowing the state to continues its questioning
Now we are dealing with henri's loss of consciousness after the event. Henri did not have any epilepsy or medical condition.
https://twitter.com/ajnarsee
It's Tense, Defence is objecting and Judge Desai is allowing the state to continues its questioning
PrimeSuspect
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https://twitter.com/ajnarsee
Adv Galloway: goes through reasons of possible loss of consciousness with Dr Trevou.
Adv Galloway: what other injury on Henri #vanbreda would indicate he lost consciousness
https://twitter.com/CapeTownEtc
Galloway begins to touch on medication or drug use to induce loss of consciousness with accused, Botha objects and Desai concurs.
Botha refers to the blood test performed on the accused, where evidence of no trace of alcohol or illicit drugs present
https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux
Henri’s blood alcohol level was was clear,no knowledge of medication/drugs&no medical condition.(These could be reasons for faint)
DrT: Loss of consciousness in vasovagal (shock) attacks cannot be longer than a few minutes unless Henri fell and hit his head.
DrT: Henri has bruising on left forehead - could be a cause of concussion.
Judge Desai says the bruising on forehead is a small injury, ‘hardly a bruise’. Botha jumps up and objects to this.
Adv Galloway: goes through reasons of possible loss of consciousness with Dr Trevou.
Adv Galloway: what other injury on Henri #vanbreda would indicate he lost consciousness
https://twitter.com/CapeTownEtc
Galloway begins to touch on medication or drug use to induce loss of consciousness with accused, Botha objects and Desai concurs.
Botha refers to the blood test performed on the accused, where evidence of no trace of alcohol or illicit drugs present
https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux
Henri’s blood alcohol level was was clear,no knowledge of medication/drugs&no medical condition.(These could be reasons for faint)
DrT: Loss of consciousness in vasovagal (shock) attacks cannot be longer than a few minutes unless Henri fell and hit his head.
DrT: Henri has bruising on left forehead - could be a cause of concussion.
Judge Desai says the bruising on forehead is a small injury, ‘hardly a bruise’. Botha jumps up and objects to this.
PrimeSuspect
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Botha objects to the Judge?!!!
PrimeSuspect
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https://twitter.com/ajnarsee
J Desai: is there any objective verification of this, your re basing your evidence on what you have been told? Dr Trevou: yes
https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux
Desai then puts it to DrT. DrT confirms that the bruise is not severe-minor injury-but brain could have been injured.
J Desai: is there any objective verification of this, your re basing your evidence on what you have been told? Dr Trevou: yes
https://twitter.com/AJGMolyneaux
Desai then puts it to DrT. DrT confirms that the bruise is not severe-minor injury-but brain could have been injured.
JudgeJudi
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Huh? Galloway said it couldn't be used brought in as evidence unless HvB was able to be cross-examined.
PrimeSuspect
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DrT: sports people who have had a concussion cannot remember the event.This might be reason why Henri did not tell dr. after event.
Court briefly adjourned for tea
DrT: sports people who have had a concussion cannot remember the event.This might be reason why Henri did not tell dr. after event.
Court briefly adjourned for tea
PrimeSuspect
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Exactly JJ, and there was Botha reading out HvB's plea statement.
JudgeJudi
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No doubt HvB has his head down because he's smirking and trying to stifle a laugh.
Retrograde amnesia my eye. Galloway said he could recall certain details vividly, but couldn't correctly type words in a Google search.
Dr Tiemensma said it was quite obvious some details were described in detail, others not. She said it was interesting how "selective" it was.
L2L
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Surely Galloway & Desai are aware of this?
PrimeSuspect
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Dr Perumal believes Rudi Van Breda would be able to make significant movement. Du Trevou says he may have been able to crawl, but not stand.
Limited movement include moving from his bed, between beds to bottom of second bed, on floor? Yes, is possible, Du Trevou says.
Between Rudi VanBreda and wall is the duvet from bed where he is lying. Ended on top of blood pool. Capable of moving duvet?
Dependent on dizziness, consciousness of which you have no evidence, Galloway asks. Correct, Du Trevou says.
Causes of loss of consciousness: medical condition (Henri doesn't have one); drug use, medication, alcohol. Adv Botha objects.
#VanBreda's blood 'clean' that night. No medication either. Medication and drug use not possible reasons, Galloway says. Du Trevou agrees.
Defence objects the questioning. Judge Desai allows the State to continue cross examination.
Vasovagal attack also possible. You feel better if you are horizontal. Du Trevou says except if he fell and bumped his head
"Vasovagal syncope occurs when you faint because your body overreacts to certain triggers, such as the sight of blood or extreme emotional distress."
What else could cause loss of consciousness? Bruising on forehead, assume hit head, could cause concussion or minor brain injury.
Photo of Henri also shows left black eye and some bruising under both eyes. Injuries are not severe, Dr Trevou says.
Judge Desai: bruising on forehead is a small injury.
Du-Trevou confirms, says injury to brain could be mild to moderate.
Mild to moderate severe brain injury could cause 2h40m. Brain injury may not mean head shows injury. Can be without bruising.
Accused consulted Dr Van Zyl that evening. She says they had nice conversation, treated for stab wound. No indication of head injury.
Dr du Trevou says very common scenario that injured person appears normal.
*Court briefly adjourned for tea.*
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/N...to-take-the-stand-in-van-breda-trial-20171023
Limited movement include moving from his bed, between beds to bottom of second bed, on floor? Yes, is possible, Du Trevou says.
Between Rudi VanBreda and wall is the duvet from bed where he is lying. Ended on top of blood pool. Capable of moving duvet?
Dependent on dizziness, consciousness of which you have no evidence, Galloway asks. Correct, Du Trevou says.
Causes of loss of consciousness: medical condition (Henri doesn't have one); drug use, medication, alcohol. Adv Botha objects.
#VanBreda's blood 'clean' that night. No medication either. Medication and drug use not possible reasons, Galloway says. Du Trevou agrees.
Defence objects the questioning. Judge Desai allows the State to continue cross examination.
Vasovagal attack also possible. You feel better if you are horizontal. Du Trevou says except if he fell and bumped his head
"Vasovagal syncope occurs when you faint because your body overreacts to certain triggers, such as the sight of blood or extreme emotional distress."
What else could cause loss of consciousness? Bruising on forehead, assume hit head, could cause concussion or minor brain injury.
Photo of Henri also shows left black eye and some bruising under both eyes. Injuries are not severe, Dr Trevou says.
Judge Desai: bruising on forehead is a small injury.
Du-Trevou confirms, says injury to brain could be mild to moderate.
Mild to moderate severe brain injury could cause 2h40m. Brain injury may not mean head shows injury. Can be without bruising.
Accused consulted Dr Van Zyl that evening. She says they had nice conversation, treated for stab wound. No indication of head injury.
Dr du Trevou says very common scenario that injured person appears normal.
*Court briefly adjourned for tea.*
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/N...to-take-the-stand-in-van-breda-trial-20171023
PrimeSuspect
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PrimeSuspect
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It seems it's back on the table, HvB may choose to testify, don't ask me how? lol Galloway said as much.
PrimeSuspect
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BTW everyone, the document https://twitter.com/CapeTownEtc posted is not the post-mortem report. :/
L2L
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Yes, I was wondering if they already know he'll change his mind and testify.
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